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Hey guys,

I'm just wondering here! Look, if you type on Google "psytrance forum" then Psynews.org is the first forum in the search results. I don't even think there's another remotely working/alive forum out there these days? So you have this forum, leaning quite a lot on Goa-related info and news. Let's say a big label like Suntrip releases an artist album that's well received.

So there's the ground setting: the only working psytrance forum & a big label in the scene with a well received release. Let's check out youtube? 

There we go. And?... 2000 views! That's an alright figure, given the exposure. 

Now one of the biggest hits of the scene ever, uploaded almost 10 years ago on youtube.

That'd be 400k views. A nice amount and well deserved for sure.

But then... ladies and gentlemen... what the fuck is this sorcery? 

Astrix with almost 53 million views! How? Where are the effin' millions of psytrance fans that listened to this? It boggles my mind. 

Also Astrix + Ace Ventura = Alpha Portal 

A track from a digital compilation I've never seen anyone mention anywhere. 10 million views. This stuff freezes my internal computer. Are the Israeli folk systematically buying views for their releases?

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Actually this is a great idea, imagine if we meme'd NHJO into Youtube's algorithms  

I'm not really surprised Astrix has that many views on YouTube. I mean he's playing on huge and commercial festivals with big names from the techno (and other styles) scene like Charlotte de Witte for

You can't compare Goa scene with Psy scene, first because of the size of it. Second because the quality of it. We in Goa don't have that amount of money for marketing but could improve quality, with q

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There is also Isratrance forum and a few others but none of them seems very active these days. Everything must happen at Facebook and such i guess (I don't know, I have a FB account but hardly ever use it).

 

I'm actually curious if there is a place on the web to discuss Astrix, Ace Ventura and other modern prog stuff with people who actually like it or at least have some interest in it, like myself.  

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The YouTube algorithm has a tendency to promote certain trending videos and make them appear on everyone's sidebar who is interested in even remotely similar stuff. Likely that's what happened to the Astrix song. But yes, psytrance is way more popular than goa, people just don't seem to talk about it so much on independent forums.

I disagree that goa trance is "bound to die", that's what people said in the early 2000s and still new people are interested in listening to it.

Cosmosis track with 1.2m views:

 

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Good topic!

I haven't yet looked at it this much - but this is VERY interesting.

It's a fact however that once a video passes a certain "activity point", it gets recommended by the algorithm in people's sidebars and becomes kinda a self-runner because more and more people click on the thing when it's in their recommendations.

The key ingredient for the "get popular" formula is to get a video recognized by the algorithm. To achieve this, you can buy views and even likes. There are several platforms to order these things ... but the algorithm meanwhile is intelligent enough to distinguish "bot views" from real human ones. That's why you can also actively buy human views. You can even buy comments and subscriptions. Everything can be bought! Why do I know it - well, I had the identical questions myself on the Soundcloud platform ... for the "Skeletone" project ... however, you can tell from our player and follower count that I did not use any of these methods :D ... point is though, this has taught me a lot about how these platforms work. It's crazy...

With this I do NOT imply that any of these mentioned (or not mentioned) artists may have bought views, but hey, everything is possible, isn't it?

We could actually start an experiment! Let's create a completely new project on YouTube with a blank account and then post a (real and completely legal) track (which is ideally newly-composed exactly for this project and purpose) and let's buys some views, likes and subscribers for it and see how far this goes ... hee hee :rolleyes:
Anybody up for donating a track?

EDIT: By the way, I am not intending to convince anybody that it is a good idea to buy views or anything ... it's against the rules of Youtube and it can get you banned there ... don't wanna sound paranoid, but the Google Algorithm reads this forum here and it hereby knows what we're up to :ph34r: ... just gonna say that if such an experiment was done, it'd be a completely fun thing with no commercial intention whatsoever and just for science :)

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Yes I've actually noticed this as well. I know that most people listen to music now via youtube or spotify, but 50 million streams on astrix is definitely quite mind boggling considering how little you see these artists and genres being talked about.

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16 hours ago, acid-brain said:

.

I disagree that goa trance is "bound to die", that's what people said in the early 2000s and still new people are interested in listening to it.

 

 

i agree that "literally" it won't die but it will be forgotten like acid techno because it is not evolving at all

golden age was 95-98 which is only 4 years and now so called new school goa has been produced for 15 years and less and less people care about it and everything is bound to sound the same

to survive goa trance has to go through a big evolution: perhaps shorter and faster tracks, perhaps vocals in the tracks, etc. 

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13 hours ago, RTP said:

Good topic!

I haven't yet looked at it this much - but this is VERY interesting.

It's a fact however that once a video passes a certain "activity point", it gets recommended by the algorithm in people's sidebars and becomes kinda a self-runner because more and more people click on the thing when it's in their recommendations.

The key ingredient for the "get popular" formula is to get a video recognized by the algorithm. To achieve this, you can buy views and even likes. There are several platforms to order these things ... but the algorithm meanwhile is intelligent enough to distinguish "bot views" from real human ones. That's why you can also actively buy human views. You can even buy comments and subscriptions. Everything can be bought! Why do I know it - well, I had the identical questions myself on the Soundcloud platform ... for the "Skeletone" project ... however, you can tell from our player and follower count that I did not use any of these methods :D ... point is though, this has taught me a lot about how these platforms work. It's crazy...

With this I do NOT imply that any of these mentioned (or not mentioned) artists may have bought views, but hey, everything is possible, isn't it?

We could actually start an experiment! Let's create a completely new project on YouTube with a blank account and then post a (real and completely legal) track (which is ideally newly-composed exactly for this project and purpose) and let's buys some views, likes and subscribers for it and see how far this goes ... hee hee :rolleyes:
Anybody up for donating a track?

EDIT: By the way, I am not intending to convince anybody that it is a good idea to buy views or anything ... it's against the rules of Youtube and it can get you banned there ... don't wanna sound paranoid, but the Google Algorithm reads this forum here and it hereby knows what we're up to :ph34r: ... just gonna say that if such an experiment was done, it'd be a completely fun thing with no commercial intention whatsoever and just for science :)

i think this would be a great idea

but isn't astrix that little gaul who hangs out with the fat guy on magic potion!! since when did he start producing?

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You're talking about Asterix, not Astrix ..

 

I don't perticulary like or trust Trancentral. They sure know how to take over, though .. and I guess YT likes that, it caress' their algorytm makes it purrr... Trancentral has made a business and unless your in their 'take over' hood, you'd better pay up to be promoted/supported  by them because their not that in it for the love more for the dough IMO.. They don't do cherity .. You hear that Sab kucher mil. Money talks & posse walk. 

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5 hours ago, Celaripo said:

 

to survive goa trance has to go through a big evolution

Yeah you're right I think. 

I still want to see sample based goa (think The Prodigy), vaporwave goa, and other fusion. 

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On 1/17/2021 at 8:59 AM, Oopie said:

Astrix with almost 53 million views! How? Where are the effin' millions of psytrance fans that listened to this? It boggles my mind. 

Deep Jungle Walk has 17 987 039 streams at Spotify.

It's all about playlist these days. If your track ends up on one of Spotify's curated playlists you will get a lot of streams.

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Okay so it's at least partially money related. I should've guessed! Money talks. Psytrance is a business too, for some. It's kinda funny though... as right now exposure doesn't really do much to give you gigs does it. 

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3 hours ago, Oopie said:

as right now exposure doesn't really do much to give you gigs does it. 

But it creates ad revenue - and even though that is only a tiny bit per ad, everything counts in large amounts :rolleyes:

17 987 039 streams ... think 1 Satoshi per stream, that's 0,17 BTC - in fiat, that currently would be about $ 6000.

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I'm not really surprised Astrix has that many views on YouTube. I mean he's playing on huge and commercial festivals with big names from the techno (and other styles) scene like Charlotte de Witte for example. And of course it helps if you invest money in the promotion...

And about Goa being bound to die: I don't think so. Of course its popularity will decline sooner or later (and maybe rise agan after that, who knows) but that's just the regular life cycle of any style. Since somebody mentioned Acid Techno as example: there are quite a lot of tracks in that style that are newly released and also played. The music doesn't sound exactly like it did back in the days, it's slower most of all but imho that style is far from being dead. I think the wish for an evolution of Goa is kinda tricky. Goa did allready evolve into psytrance and progressive for example. This means to me a real revolution will create new styles but Goa will stay the same in its core. Otherwise it wouldn't be Goa anymore from my point of view.

 

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See here, where an (alledged?) insider talks about these technics, in German tho. The title translates to "The Rap hack, buy yourself in the charts, how click numbers are manipulated"

Der Rap Hack: Kauf Dich in die Charts! Wie Klickzahlen manipuliert werden
 


@RTP: I like this experiment and wanted to do this myself also one day, seems no one was interested in your idea tho. If it is guaranteed that not a complete channel at YT can be deleted if this is detected by the "AI" I can contribute a video/song recently released for example (it is kind of tech-trance stuff not psy - but for this experiment it does not need to be psy but at least some related genres imho). But I doubt anything comes out of that, as recently it seems forum member working together worked out seldom (like the psynews track or is this still in the works?)

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I have the impression if one has not say 2000% luck over the normal "luck/not luck courve" one needs to spend for every hour in music 2 hours "promoting" so your song gets more than 20 plays :blink: Yes, quality might still be important, but as we know a big% of songs in the charts lack quality so with good promo and lots of luck and connections I guess quality might only be on the 3rd place of importance. 

Also one needs to be an accountant these days too I looked up some channels at YT I found eg. Damian Keys who runs some kind of promo firm and offers courses etc. but his free vids are already interesting (in a way that I do not want to do this job) also here this guy: 

My Song Got 40,000 Streams on Spotify. Here's How I Did It.

He has videos 1 hour long and most of it seems to be some kind of book keeping / accounting of numbers LOL Accountant was NOT MY dream job tho. I heard 30000 tracks (of course some of em might be only loop, demos or old songs already released) are uploaed to Spotify EACH DAY (?) I hope I get that wrong and it is at least each week...:D

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On 1/17/2021 at 10:05 PM, Celaripo said:

i agree that "literally" it won't die but it will be forgotten like acid techno because it is not evolving at all 

That’s funny because I’ve been listening to a lot of acid techno lately. I got into Spotify & I wanted stuff I don’t have on MP3 so I looked up Chris Liberator (I’ve got a couple records) & now I listen to acid techno playlists in the car a lot. It may not have evolved, but it’s still awesome!

 

Regarding Psynews coming up first in Google searches: not surprising I guess, but don’t forget about “filter bubbles”. Google has their algorithms too, so anyone with a long history of visiting Psynews is likely to see it high in search results.

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On 1/18/2021 at 7:42 AM, RTP said:

We could actually start an experiment! Let's create a completely new project on YouTube with a blank account and then post a (real and completely legal) track (which is ideally newly-composed exactly for this project and purpose) and let's buys some views, likes and subscribers for it and see how far this goes ... hee hee :rolleyes:

Do you still want to do this? I'd be interested to see how far it can go and what happens once the money stops buying the views. We could start an off topic with anyone interested or get a private room on discord or something.

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What I don't get is how these "unknown" in our scene artists got so popular so fast.

You see I get Astrix. I mean he's active for almost 20 years now and he's considered a full on pioneer. 

I also get Talamasca. He was always popular and now that he's playing commercial Goa is bound to be super successful.

But Vini Vici? They used to be Sesto Sento, a semi-popular full on group and now even my granma knows them.

Or Hilight Tribe? I remember they were this niche band that played instruments during their live performances. Now they have million of views.

And what about Tropical Bleyage? Who the fuck are Tropical Bleyage?

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1 hour ago, Ormion said:

But Vini Vici? They used to be Sesto Sento, a semi-popular full on group and now even my granma knows them.

Or Hilight Tribe? I remember they were this niche band that played instruments during their live performances. Now they have million of views.

And what about Tropical Bleyage? Who the fuck are Tropical Bleyage?

I did not know these artists at all - but one thing is clear the "scene" could not generate the play numbers of these, so you can say they branched out to the "mainstream EDM scene". I guess "old schoolers" would even ignore often this new kind of Psy so one can assume most of their audience is outside this scene. And the answer to your question is already given above (connections,promotion,luck,somewhat catchy tunes...and then what this thread explains one can do these days "Buy an audience") However also this is not new, in the past record labels would buy their own CDs for example.

Do you know this faboulus movie "Margin Call" ? What the boss says at ca. 6:00 reminds me on this topic :P

 

 

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4 hours ago, Ormion said:

But Vini Vici? They used to be Sesto Sento, a semi-popular full on group and now even my granma knows them.

Or Hilight Tribe? I remember they were this niche band that played instruments during their live performances. Now they have million of views.

And what about Tropical Bleyage? Who the fuck are Tropical Bleyage?

vini vici knew how to ride the cheese train back when they were sesto sento and they do still know it as vini vici. brazil and isreal are probably to blame here. (what i really find strange is that they somehow found their way into the lineup of the biggest rock/indie/metal festival here in austria two years ago or so).

highlight tribe only got popular again because vini vici remixed their 90s track free tibet.

tropical bleyage is just another average dacru artist. do you think they got more recognition than digicult or u-recken?

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To be fair all the prog artists being quoted here are hugely popular. I'm in a group called Melbourne Doofers on Facebook. 43,000 members, not a lot of actual music discussion seems to go on but Tropical Bleyage, Astrix, Hilight Tribe, Vin Vici & Talamasca are all super well known and are the draw cards that headline a lot of festivals. Those youtube views do seem kinda fair to me. Think about all the 20 year olds that say how much they love psytrance as they push play on 'Free Tibet'

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On 2/13/2021 at 3:44 AM, Tsotsi said:

Do you still want to do this? I'd be interested to see how far it can go and what happens once the money stops buying the views. We could start an off topic with anyone interested or get a private room on discord or something.

I am willing to try it out, it is simple, I make a thread in the OT section (cause it does not really belong to music making section imho)..
my YT channel is more or less "dead" anyway (I get perhaps 20 views / week for my own videos).. I upload the song, give the URL and anyone who wants
can "buy" something but no more than 10,- or so (if one has more money he can spend 15,- perhaps) he posts the seller url and what he has ordered. I provide also the stats in the thread. These selllers only need the video URL as I have seen. Also anyone can play the vid and thumbs it up, who does not want to spend any money...(I will also buy something of course)---Or should a new channel be created, so risk is lower that my channel gets hurt? But I believe the worst that can happen is, the vid itself may be deleted or at least the views discounted if YT has now perhaps updated their "AI" to detect such "cheats" (?)

I saw 3 people interested (incl. me) here if we get 5 it could be worthwhile I guess... I do not know if the video can be monetized cause my channel is not. If this monetize thing works and the vid would earn something I report it and if it is enough I pay the buyers back..;) (EDIT, conditions are not met for monetizing so forget it) If 2 more persons interested to take part, I go ahead..

 

Overview of some sellers: https://increditools.com/buy-youtube-views/

 

@Tropcial Bleyage: Well produced, but lacks some "teeth" so to speak :) Or something surprising what kicks you from the slumber....

 

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