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1 hour ago, KER said:

Oopie don't wanna do this?

Unfortunately I've got no extra material to use for this. It's been half a year since I produced any music

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8 hours ago, Multi-Media said:

Or should a new channel be created, so risk is lower that my channel gets hurt?

I say yes, if you don't want to take the risk - it's "more or less" against the rules and it _can_ get you banned or flagged ... even if I will only buy guaranteed human views for you ... however, the algorithm also recognizes new accounts who try this out, so you have to outsmart it. A dormant account that is long active, but has not much activity and the "lands the hit by some miraculous formula" is actually the best bait (the best bait - and the best bet :) ).
Just be sure you've got a backup plan in case of the (not very likely, but possible) event that it gets banned.

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You can't compare Goa scene with Psy scene, first because of the size of it. Second because the quality of it. We in Goa don't have that amount of money for marketing but could improve quality, with quality probably more gigs and sales, then more money to invest into marketing but not gonna happen anyway... because Goa Illuminati!

 

If it's up to me but it's not, quality like new Cosmic Dimension and nothing less is the only way forward. The most finished/complete album in Goa for last decade aaaaand that's just some Imba's opinion... and then there is his opinion, and his and his and hers and we are just opinioning each others instead of doing something :lol: 

 

Anyway if you didn't, check the album - 2k views in just 2 days:

 

 

And yeah Astrix is daddy, he always was and always will. Because he know how to make proper music in proper time!

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On 2/15/2021 at 12:55 PM, recursion loop said:

Yes, Dacru. Morning fullon. 

They actually have 2 or 3 decent tracks if you are into that sort of thing (I know you are not). 

Actually this track ain't bad at all.

https://youtu.be/o9PCfPXWBFg

I can enjoy cheesy full on as long the melodies are nice and this one have some tasty goa-ish melodies.

The thing is that I've never heard of this group in my life so seeing 10 millions views on yt was a shocker.

 

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i kinda agree with imba there, i think quality is what is keeping our genre back a bit.

some artists really really fine tune the quality aspect of it (artifact, mindsphere, filteria - and now i see Cosmic Dimension is really amazing :o extremely high quality sound! a breath of fresh air.. instant favorite..)

while most of the others sound a bit software-like, sloppy and well, not as "perfect" as say Astrix.

Most 'normal' people dont care that much - if the music is good then the music is good. Regardless of quality.

but for Psytrance ( i think "pop" psytrance ) then quality is equally as important as music. I think we have touched on this quite a few times on here.

 

 

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Although a decent percentage of neo Goa is in fact simpler than it tries to sound, Goa is still, essentially, psychedelic music. It thrives on complexity. The "big room" psytrance, from a popularity perspective, is always going to remain more consumed because it's easier to digest. Simply - people like simple. The big room sound took essentially what are the cliche, working "hooks" of classic psytrance and churned a McD version out of it. That's the money recipe! 

So yeah, Goa is never gonna be that much more popular unless people's minds were somehow altered to demand and appreciate more complex sound structures. The production quality talk, although a welcomed topic on its own, is somewhat futile in the end I reckon.

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23 hours ago, RTP said:

I say yes, if you don't want to take the risk - it's "more or less" against the rules and it _can_ get you banned or flagged ... even if I will only buy guaranteed human views for you ... however, the algorithm also recognizes new accounts who try this out, so you have to outsmart it. A dormant account that is long active, but has not much activity and the "lands the hit by some miraculous formula" is actually the best bait (the best bait - and the best bet :) ).
Just be sure you've got a backup plan in case of the (not very likely, but possible) event that it gets banned.

I have read a bit, seems the sellers providing "real" views and say they do not use bots (how real they are one does not know of cause) all "guarantee" the channel does not taken down. They do not provide the views as a huge wave but often over over up to 4/5 days. They also when using their service one should not buy views from another service in this time period. Guess 3-4 days time period for every "promoter" is ok... in fact the biggest hurdle for me seems to be payment method, I have no credit card and do not like paypal much. I found 2 promoters in Ger which also accept Überweisung (bank transfer?), guess I use one of these.
Link to German provider (NO add for the particular one I have never used it or any other). Might be a bit more expensive on average (?) However if it goes to a catastrophe of some kind I can drive there and complain in person, Hagen is only 65-70km from me ;)

https://www.followerfast.com/youtube-klicks-kaufen/

Edit, to add: Well this idea might be total BS... HOWEVER alone the fact that so many of these "promoters" exist proves that also MANY use these methods, this is quite clear/self evidenced.

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4 hours ago, astralprojection said:

...sloppy and well, not as "perfect" as say Astrix.

Most 'normal' people dont care that much - if the music is good then the music is good. Regardless of quality.

 

I am not sure if I sign that, "perfect" quality does not mean = good music for me. Take some earlier hits some sound kind of rough but have energy and grab more attention (from me at least) then polished stuff like Astrix etc. But to each his own :) And that goes for Metal even more then electronic genres.. Edit, guess I missunderstood what AP meant...

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On 2/16/2021 at 7:07 PM, Oopie said:

Unfortunately I've got no extra material to use for this. It's been half a year since I produced any music

The idea was using ONE track to push from eg. 5 different promoters and see the effects it has. I can provide a track or eg. recursion if he wants..My track is somewhat cheesy or "melodic" too so perhaps a bit mass appeal compared to older ones..genre tech-trance perhaps. Or Kirmes techno :)? Kirmes in English = fun fair ?

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20 hours ago, Multi-Media said:

I have no credit card and do not like paypal much

Had the same problem - till I found "cash4web" ... it's a prepaid Mastercard. Quite convenient = if it gets hacked, the only sum at risk is the amount loaded on the card. This can be bought at any "Kiosk" over here ... I'm quite sure you in Germany have something like that too?

The views that you buy won't be the problem - because other members might buy views for the thing too and it's not guaranteed that the company they choose for the delivery is as serious as yours or even near you :)

I, however, understood that I won't do anything until your own campaign is over. Intervening with multiple campaigns will be suspicious for sure. They shall be stacked one after another.

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21 hours ago, Multi-Media said:

I am not sure if I sign that, "perfect" quality does not mean = good music for me. Take some earlier hits some sound kind of rough but have energy and grab more attention (from me at least) then polished stuff like Astrix etc. But to each his own :) And that goes for Metal even more then electronic genres.. Edit, guess I missunderstood what AP meant...

No I agree. I think you misunderstood. 

Lots of great stuff is very far from "perfect" :)

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5 hours ago, the goa constrictor said:

I remember when Analog Pussy got banned from MP3.Com for manipulating their plays/streams.

Oh the good ol' days... =)

MP3.com ? That must be like 15 yrs. ago or more, I remember the name A.Pussy from there and 5-6 other artists that became "something bigger" later. Sadly my (ex)band was not among these but at least they stayed trvee kult :D 2 or 3 songs from us were in the genre topten there IIRC (bandname was Split Effect who knows if someone remembers LOL)

Need to check the pussies out to remember how they sounded....

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First of all, thanks @Imba for mentioning that Cosmic Dimension album because it's great and I'd have missed it.

3 hours ago, astralprojection said:

Lots of great stuff is very far from "perfect" :)

Second, couldn't agree more.

I, however, would even enhance this:
I believe, that the somewhat slight amateurish touch is what sometimes actively adds to the goodness of the stuff - or even is the reason why it is so good. The unpolished notes in tracks often give me an impression to even more let go and give in to the flow. I cannot react the same way when I hear the top quality stuff - my ears are inevitably over-analyzing every aspect of that, while when it's unpolished anyway, they don't bother in the first place.

That was the reason why I liked Pusherstreet so much and pretty much all what Panzar Produktionz released in their period, like, ten years ago ... because it was just plain "let go" kind of music, unpolished, "come as you are" kind of stuff ... just like lots of that old progressive - and even beyond that ... and that is, to me, an attitude that defines the Goa scene ... so I guess in the end it inevitably comes to the point where we kinda get less recognized for the way we are = unpolished as the music...

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12 hours ago, RTP said:

I believe, that the somewhat slight amateurish touch is what sometimes actively adds to the goodness of the stuff - or even is the reason why it is so good. The unpolished notes in tracks often give me an impression to even more let go and give in to the flow. I cannot react the same way when I hear the top quality stuff - my ears are inevitably over-analyzing every aspect of that, while when it's unpolished anyway, they don't bother in the first place.

Production quality can't be a bad thing per se. When the mix is good, everything is loud and clear, the kick and the bass are in perfect alignment, each sound is perfectly polished, the listening experience will be much better - the track will sound equally great in a club, in a hi fi sysetm at home, or even in earbuds plugged into a smartphone.

 

Thing is that the current production quality standards requre that the sound-engineer mindset must dominate over the musician/arranger mindset. I think that's why there's so many perfectly produced but boring psytrance tracks these days - they are made by people who know how to make perfect mixes but either don't care much about the musical content or make some compromises in this aspect to make the tracks mixable better. E.g. when you have a melody that requires a lot of key changes in the bassline, or a lead with a lots of automation/realtime knob tweaking with harmonic content radically changing along the way and wild resonances randomly popping out, that will be very challenging to mix, especially if you want your track mastered loud (and you want this if you want your music to be accepted by a known label) - so you will likely leave this out and use sounds that are less tricky to process and mix and simpler harmonies that don't make a nightmare out of the bass processing. Also less layers overall, because less sounds = less frequency conflicts, less volume buildups and other "undesirable" things like that.

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I always liked to compare building a house with building/making of a track.

 

First you need to find suitable ground/idea, you have to make good and strong foundations with good structural integrity. When you start overloading it with other building materials it needs to stand still or it will fall apart. I imagine bassline as concrete foundations and kicks as concrete pillars, very 2 elements which have to hold everything in place in one huge piece. And then you add layer by layer, just like bricks until you get walls of sound! And if you didn't pick/make right bricks from the beggining, and you didn't place them well, your wall will look ugly and will probably have holes in it (read: sound synthesis). Then you have percussions in top which should remain strong, just like roof so it doesn't collapse.

Last thing is facade/mix. If you done previous things right that should be easy without too much effort and you get your house beautiful and very much functional. Just like your track, does it looks/sounds good? Yes!

If you miss some of steps in building you will have weak and unstable thing, full of holes and crooked walls. Would you like to live in such house or you will try to fix it and polish it?

 

3 hours ago, recursion loop said:

Production quality can't be a bad thing per se. When the mix is good, everything is loud and clear, the kick and the bass are in perfect alignment, each sound is perfectly polished, the listening experience will be much better - the track will sound equally great in a club, in a hi fi sysetm at home, or even in earbuds plugged into a smartphone.

 

Thing is that the current production quality standards requre that the sound-engineer mindset must dominate over the musician/arranger mindset. I think that's why there's so many perfectly produced but boring psytrance tracks these days - they are made by people who know how to make perfect mixes but either don't care much about the musical content or make some compromises in this aspect to make the tracks mixable better. E.g. when you have a melody that requires a lot of key changes in the bassline, or a lead with a lots of automation/realtime knob tweaking with harmonic content radically changing along the way and wild resonances randomly popping out, that will be very challenging to mix, especially if you want your track mastered loud (and you want this if you want your music to be accepted by a known label) - so you will likely leave this out and use sounds that are less tricky to process and mix and simpler harmonies that don't make a nightmare out of the bass processing. Also less layers overall, because less sounds = less frequency conflicts, less volume buildups and other "undesirable" things like that.

What he said!

Take 90s Goa hits, Teleport, Mahadeva... they are not super complex. Their complexity is simplicity. They made huuuuuge sound with just few layers!

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I like to compare it with silicon tits and a soul. Some silicon tits babes can have a soul intact as well, no doubt, but not many. 

Anyway, don't forget the effect of psychedelia! Which is easilly confused with the general drugs usage state 

 

Mmmkay, 

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On 2/18/2021 at 6:24 PM, RTP said:

Had the same problem - till I found "cash4web" ... it's a prepaid Mastercard. Quite convenient = if it gets hacked, the only sum at risk is the amount loaded on the card. This can be bought at any "Kiosk" over here ... I'm quite sure you in Germany have something like that too?

The views that you buy won't be the problem - because other members might buy views for the thing too and it's not guaranteed that the company they choose for the delivery is as serious as yours or even near you :)

I, however, understood that I won't do anything until your own campaign is over. Intervening with multiple campaigns will be suspicious for sure. They shall be stacked one after another.

Thanks for the idea, I have not heard of cash4web (but I am living under a rock anyway)... at least the website is located in Austria:

https://www.paylife.at/paylife/service/imprint

So it might be a thing only for your country (?)..

Well we talked so much about this now, guess I will go ahead upload a track this evening or tomorrow morning... or if in the last moment someone RISES his finger and wants to use his track/channel...

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12 hours ago, recursion loop said:

Production quality can't be a bad thing per se. When the mix is good, everything is loud and clear, the kick and the bass are in perfect alignment, each sound is perfectly polished, the listening experience will be much better - the track will sound equally great in a club, in a hi fi sysetm at home, or even in earbuds plugged into a smartphone.

You really got me thinking on that ... and sure I basically wouldn't say "no" to quality ... but I think part of the probem is, that I already got kinda anchored to the "modern sounding = polished sounding = dull" train of thought.

It also depends what precisely you pick out with the quality aspect (quality arrangement or mastering and mixing the sounds together or the quality of sound material that's played - such as crackle-free synth notes) ... but when I'm looking in to the old progressive front then there's lots of stuff I'd find questionable at least, sound quality wise - there's crackles and muffles in the selected sounds here and there - in Atmos' Qualität im Quadrat I even find a hiss that rhythmically swings along - but these elements don't come across as "bad" or "negative" in that music, they embed themselves into the character of the track ... and that makes me wonder, is it actual lack of quality or intention...?

There's also the aspect that a full quality mix stresses my ears more because there are more sounds to process - at least I have that impression!

Anyhow, I would fully accept if you call me a weirdo on that :)

Nice idea @Imba - that comparison with the house. I like architecture :) ... and I think that the houses that I like are kind of different to the others. Like "Coop Himmelblau" building a bit different houses compared to others...

 

7 hours ago, Multi-Media said:

Thanks for the idea, I have not heard of cash4web (but I am living under a rock anyway)... at least the website is located in Austria:

https://www.paylife.at/paylife/service/imprint

So it might be a thing only for your country (?)..

Well we talked so much about this now, guess I will go ahead upload a track this evening or tomorrow morning... or if in the last moment someone RISES his finger and wants to use his track/channel...:+1:

Probably not much will come of it I guess. But the risk should be also quite small if track in question is deleted I won´t care much, if track stays up and no one participates also no biggie - just another one then with 50 views in 3 months :P

Go for it, post the link, I'm sure something can be sorted out :)

I'd be so curious how it turns out...

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@RTP; This time yup I am in the action not only words (means I make the thread later) but before I ask.... is there something that I can put in the tags or some other "trick" which also might help ?


Re. Atmos is this on CD where you heard the hiss, if it is online it can easily be caused by the conversion and leveling the streamers do. If yes, I say it is part of the track, in psy (or techno, indus) a "hissy" sound even if not intended can fit easy.
 

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17 hours ago, RTP said:

It also depends what precisely you pick out with the quality aspect (quality arrangement or mastering and mixing the sounds together or the quality of sound material that's played - such as crackle-free synth notes) ... but when I'm looking in to the old progressive front then there's lots of stuff I'd find questionable at least, sound quality wise - there's crackles and muffles in the selected sounds here and there - in Atmos' Qualität im Quadrat I even find a hiss that rhythmically swings along - but these elements don't come across as "bad" or "negative" in that music, they embed themselves into the character of the track ... and that makes me wonder, is it actual lack of quality or intention...?

They just didn't have the tools we have now, like surgical equalizers or super-precise compresors, also they only used hardware synths I think. Was there any software synth in 2000? Maybe only Rebirth is that old. When you record a hardware synth into a cheap inteface you can get all kinds of noises and artifacts. Likely they also didn't use DAWs for mixing, rather it probably were some cheap and noisy hardware mixers and everything was recorded on noisy tapes. Now most mainstream psy labels expect more polished sound. And that probably means that artists, at least those signed at bigname labels, focus more on production quality, mixing, mastering etc, than on musical ideas.

 

 

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holy crap that cosmic dimension album sounds good. I mean.. wow. The quality is something i have not heard before in this genre i think. thanks imba for that tip ^^ 

edit: meh its not that great afteralll :D i mean its very good but still not better than artifact or filteria for example. but for "software goa" it sounds really great, and certainly is a breath of fresh air.

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Ok I got up early to upload and right after I wanted to "buy the views"... I got a copyright claim however only 30mins. after the upload from my own distributor. I signed up with it half a year ago to try this Spotify;Itunes etc. thingie out. And a week ago I released a Maxi as test how this all works.

The track I wanted to use is on this Maxi, I did not know however that it will be claimed when I upload myself to YT (distributor put a "snippet" up on YT but not complete song). Well the "Google AI" can not know I made the track. Pretty fast system tho - I wonder if it searches the file (data) itself or only the title?

Using a claimed video for this experiment is of course suboptimal even if it was not deleted right away, guess this test needs to be postponed :rolleyes: Or some steps in with another track?
Anyways nice sunday to all...

 

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Heh, that was fast :D

Yeah the algorithm is cleverer than you think, it's got AI at its disposal and who knows what trickery is used to analyze the files ... as said earlier: Google knows this forum, the AI might even read this very thread and got ahead of your plan ... borderline scary isn't it? Although I'm not that serious about this :)

I am sure an experiment can be done. Will also try to spread my antennas for this a bit...

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