What are you looking for in music?

[antic604]

If you followed my recent posts in certain reviews or discussions about mastering & compression, you'll notice a pattern that my views are sometimes strikingly different than those of the other forum users. This made me wondering if what we're looking for in music is the same? Well, obviously not because we're each a different person, but I'd like to understand at least the range of expectations or requirements you guys (and girls ) have to like or dislike certain album or compilation. Let's focus on broadly understood psychedelic / goa trance, ok?

 

Now, for me:

 

- style - I'm fairly open to different music and if enough people see something in certain stuff, I'll try to dig in deeper. Therefore I have my favourites in most sub-genres: from chill, world, suomi, prog to full-on, psytrance, darkpsy, goa and nitzho. In other words, I'm *trying* to not focus on single sub-genre and more importantly not to project my dislike for the sub-genre as a whole on individual releases.

 

- musical content - since we're talking about music, a good melody is always a plus but more often than not this ends up being really sub-par in our genre: most artists either go into the sparse, repetitive and simplistic few-notes riffs (most prog, full-on), or completely to the other extreme: an overload of notes and sequences rarely making sense together (goa). Good music - for me - is one, where the melodies (or chord progressions) try to convey some kind of emotion and are doing so in an unexpected, difficult to predict manner. Where the progression of music follows a certain, natural flow which is difficult to quantify, measure and contain within a strict 4/4 rhythm. That doesn't sound like it was "produced" on a computer using a letter-keyboard and mouse. With peaks and valleys that provide the emotions. If I listen to a track and I *know* what it will do in next few bars, if it uses all the same sounds and tricks that countless other artists use, if by progression the artist means adding an open hi-hat or a clap for the new bar, then it quickly bores me. It's just as if someone was using a template to do a better or worse version of something that already exists. If the artist feels obliged to make a 6-8min track, but only has ideas for 4min then stretching what's there is not the best idea. A lot of artists play it very safe, sticking to the few true & tried chords, the same bass line (sound & pattern), the same effects, the same transitions and breaks, thinking this is what defines the genre. Whereas - for me - the magic happens when someone uses something extraordinary, unexpected; something that a lot of others would probably throw away as controversial, too risky. If artist's only influence and inspiration are other tracks in the style he's creating, then it will limit his horizons pretty quickly because it's the juxtaposition of different - sometimes very contrasting - elements that creates fresh, unique music. Likewise, the blending of tempos (slowly developing vs. fast melodies, not suddenly going to triplets like a lot of full-on does recently...), timbres (deep, growly leads vs. ethereal highs) or origins (electronic vs. analog instruments) is something that works really well and you don't need 10+ layers to create contrast, tension and energy.

 

- depth / complexity / instant appeal - by that I mean the breadth of the sonic experience that is provided, which is either what-you-hear-is-what-you-get or fill-the-holes-yourself. The 1st one is when after 2-3 listens you already know all that there is to know about the track: you know the sounds, the melodies. And this is a byproduct of commoditisation of music - this is the goa bass, this is the prog bass and this is the darkpsy bass; those are the tempos you're allowed to use, here's your approved melodies and break types, here are your gated angelic goa voices and those are your full-on lasers, etc. It's maybe a good place to start, but if adhered to religiously it takes away all individuality - it's clean, ascetic and functional but without much room for personality. Like IKEA furniture. On the other hand you have music that you need your imagination to fill the blanks, where you can't really put your finger on the details or even tell if they're really there or your mind just created them. You can name the individual components but they're put together not how you'd expect them to be, where every little detail is there to add to and expand the experience. That 1st type of music will stick in your head only if it's exceptionally well crafted, the 2nd will surprise you the 10th, 20th and 50th time you listen to it with new elements that you somehow missed or interpreted differently. The 1st will be very literal with what it wants to express putting it right to the front, the 2nd will initially sound bland and boring, because what happens is beneath the surface and requires attention as there's rarely a distinct, clearly evident leading instrument or motiff. The 1st will wear off pretty quickly, the 2nd will provide a lasting experience.

 

- idea / theme - it becomes less common these days to release concept albums (or compilations), i.e. the collection of music bound by a singular idea, which doesn't translate into the tracks sounding the same, but rather them being a variation on the theme, providing different view of the topic at hand. My favourite example is Cosmosis' "Contact" that's talking about human evolution from money & instincts-driven, self-destructing homo sapiens to enlightened species living with other extraterrestrials in 'intergalactic community' outside our so-called reality, that is only an illusion and holographic projection of our minds. It tells that story not only via samples, but by employing different tempos and aesthetics (from goa, to reggae, to regular trance and acid) and using a lot of dissonant, detuned sounds creating an unearthly atmosphere. Sure, some of the tracks are better, some are slightly worse (and let's pretend "Human Evolution" never happened...) but existence of this additional thread that binds it all together makes the whole greater than a sum of its parts and elevates it above simple average of individual ratings.

 

- technical quality - in this day and age it's a requirement for music to sound good, because everyone has access to tools allowing to produce a decent mix. Therefore the sound should be free of artifacts, spacious (with good stereo separation) and with clearly defined but balanced bass & trebles. Above all it shouldn't be over compressed and squashed to death, which makes it unpleasant to listen on any decent headphones.

 

So, TL;DR - I'm personally looking for nonconformist, complex music that's difficult to categorise. That conveys some emotion, mood or atmosphere, by mixing and juxtaposing contrasting elements in a non-obvious and surprising way. That avoids religiously following the cliches and templates, but isn't afraid to use them and break them. That is deep, elusive and vague, instead of cheaply pleasing and superficial. That has a clear purpose, identity and theme (you can basically tell what it's about) instead of just wanting to be the next prog/full-on/goa/dark, etc. dance floor hit. That's made primarily for the mind. Obviously it doesn't have to tick all those boxes at once, but 2-3 would be nice.

 

Some of my favourites from 2015 and 2016 that I gave 4-5/5 rating:

- Lunar Dawn "Kolovrat" for merging balkan folk into goa,

- Skizologic "Robotized" for acknowledging that less is more, by creating very energetic & dense music with simple sounds & FX, while preserving its individual feel,

- Hypnocoustics "Transformational Structures" and Psilocybian's "GodHead" for proving that full-on can be done in an interesting, intelligent way avoiding the cheap thrills,

- Loud "5 Billion Stars" for the concept, successful mixing of live & electronic and variety,

- Nervasystem "Brainradio" for mind-bending complexity and boundless depths, gentle but relentless energy and drive,

- Mindsphere "Presence" for unparalleled emotional message and melodic complexity,

- Morphic Resonance "The City of Moons" for the dark, heavy and oppressive atmosphere,

- Tripswitch "Vagabond" for creating the emotional, melancholic and deep ambient(ish) progressive house,

 

[psychedelic chipmunk]

I look for and like music that makes me get goose bumps.

[Oopie]

@antic: Maybe my new album suits your criteria?

 

On topic - The music I'd like to hear doesn't exist lol. It's hard to define my thoughts clearly, but I'll try. You know, not too many producers are keen on exploring the very edge of extremely psychedelic/complex psytrance. Majority, at least of those I've heard, fail in having a strong production composition-wise. There's many producers I admire but who's truly pushing the envelope from the psychedelic aspect? The outcome for far too many artists is often messy/random. When I think about a producer trying to do the most detailed, microscopic, twisted mindf--- psytrance you know what comes to my mind? First off, hard to do. Secondly, not media-sexy. Imagine doing something that takes years to master and pleases a small bunch of freaks. Hah! Gotta be passionate no way around it. Anyway back to explain my first sentence - there's an extra mile to take but nobody's walking it. There's so much more to the possibilities of psychedelic trance that hasn't yet existed.

 

I'm probably waiting for the year 2030 you know? Or perhaps my next album... who knows!

[Imba]

- technical quality - in this day and age it's a requirement for music to sound good, because everyone has access to tools allowing to produce a decent mix. Therefore the sound should be free of artifacts, spacious (with good stereo separation) and with clearly defined but balanced bass & trebles. 

 

This, not many people are taking care of. There are so many good tracks but badly balanced and produced, really sad.

 

 

Well i prefer powerul music, one that have good drive. Really dont care much if some templates are used so far, or fills or specific type of break. If it works, it works!

 

 

Kick-bass - i love them fat sharp and rolling... good compression, sidechain, eq, phasing are important here. If you don't do it well, you lose power in whole track.

 

FX/background - deep and wide, atmos, farts, lazers, pads, vocals as long is sounds deep and spacy 

 

synths/melodies - cutting trough that background psychedelia but have story for itself. I love long hypnotic parts, layers coming around and dance between each other. Good example for that is Dimension 5, they are masters of hypnotic.

 

drums/percs - please no proggy white noises instead of real snares! I love old school drums, i love when you can hear some more variations, some breakbeats, something bit different. Combination of closed hats and tambourines or shakers. Combination of snare and claps. Tribal drums are always welcome too. Old Electric Universe is perfect example for such thing.

 

Also track need to have it peak moments, not constant fullpower/over powering. It must takes you up and down. It must have few euphoric parts but some calm ones too. Whole track keeping same flat line? No thank you.

 

 

Being unique? Every single track and every single artist is unique. The way how they play, how they produce, whole process is unique. Each is unique imo

 

 

 

What i noticed, 20 years ago most of production was better than today. Strange... or just lazyness?

 

 

After all if it catch my ears and moves my body i guess thats it?

[IronSun]

Antic: First of all let me say how amazed I am by your ability to clearly express what you look for in music. I guess this was not an easy process but hey, you're there and it sounds as if you've given it a lot of thought.

 

I find myself drifting in your direction very strongly. All the releases you named at the bottom of your post have been absolute highlights for me as well (except 5 billion stars & vagabond because I haven't heard them yet) and a couple of these I got because you recommended them (transformational structures & brainradio).

Even though I have been listening to more than 1 subgenre in the psychedelic trance umbrella for the past 8 years I must say that partly because of transformational structures & brainradio I have come to enjoy and appreciate other subgenre's much more and this has encouraged me to broaden my search samplesizes of new music.

I want to thank you for this! It really has contributed to me enjoying psytrance and all it's related sub genre's even more and I feel more complete for it.

 

I hope one day I will be able to express myself the way you do about my musical preference.

 

That being said, as far as style goes I really look for music to be transcending or to be a tool to transport you to another world, a world of emotion and contrary to everyday experience.

Whether this emotion is sad, angry, uplifting, euphoric, happy, mellow, nostalgic doesn't matter, but the fact that it is present or evokes emotion inside of me is what's important to me.

 

I don't shy away from ethnical stuff if it is well made and I think that often comes down to avoiding cliches when making something that can be classified (as opposed to something that can not be classified, which would automatically mean that it can not be cliche because these have not been established yet).

I guess that's where pioneers in certain genre's or subgenre's have it 'easier'. (good example of this would be Kolovrat)

 

I also tend to prefer maximalistic music over minimalistic approaches although that preference has been waning over the last years. I've come to appreciate the balance between the two and these days more actively search for it.

Somehow I'm also completely addicted to the 'electronic sound' and the 4/4 dance beat.

 

Musical content is something where I find it much much harder to pinpoint what floats my boat. This is where I really struggle to express because I have been known to absolutely love the most complex of pieces while at the same time swooning over albums that a lot of my friends categorized as simple (although that probably indicates that other people do not always perceive music the way I do, which is perfectly normal).

I like melody, with complex phrases and absolutely adore musicians that succeed in a musical catharsis in their tracks because that to me is the pinnacle of a musical journey. (This can also be achieved over the course of an album of course)

Maybe that then is what I really look for as far as musical content is concerned: catharsis. But even this doesn't always hold true.

 

Conforming to a certain genre is in my eyes not always a bad thing. Ticon's latest is a great example of that. While doing noting new, they still manage to push all the right buttons and in the end, that's what gets me going.

I think this is the point where we differ the most in our views on music.

[Padmapani]

style: i don't let subgenres dictate my taste, but what i like and don't like is often separated by genre boundaries (e.g. i dislike anything that's house. i have yet to find an exception. this even applies to acid house while i love any other "acid xxx" genre). this is no big surprise to me because these genres are differentiated for a reason. trance focuses on different elements, storytelling elements than techno, conveys different mind states and feeling, and therefore has other strengths and weaknesses for appealing to a person.

 

complexity/originality: it can go from minimalistic to maximal (though the minimalistic tracks should ideally have more drive/energy to compensate), it just cannot be "empty", in a sense like vegan food tastes empty. even though it fills your stomach you still are never full and content. i'd rather have an artist copy the "meat" from the genre-template than serving to meat at all. i don't like music that's different for the sake of being different. some artists just do their thing, which happens not to conform to any genre conventions, and it's awesome. but i got the impression that some deliberately try to be unconventional/extra-creative/set themselves apart, eschewing the tried and true recipes while having no clear "own thing" going to replace it with. and this probably results in what to me sounds like "vegan" music.

so in short, if artists struggle with being "nonconformist" creating sub par output, they could still make good "conformist music". not everything needs to be super unique and innovative. what i'd rather object to is that it's mostly the conformist aritsts that just add good production to the simplest and most overused templates who get the most recognition in the larger community and draw the biggest crowds.

 

content: music needs to paint a picture in my head, it needs to be translatable to a mental landscape. this is the most important thing and the majority of music out there doesn't satisfy that criterion. it is most often accomplished by atmosphere/melodies, but a repetitive rhytm can sometimes be enough. neelix or any other utterly boring me-too artist will obviously fail here.

to be psychedelic it imho need to be soothing and challenging at the same time. if artists want to be super psychedelic by just making, everything complicated, unnatural, aggressive and challenging to listen to, i'll just perceive it as noise. this is one of the most psychedelic tracks i know and there's nothing harsh about it. in fact it is very pleasant and soothing — but at the same time it has those slightly unsettling flowing patterns moving in only seemingly unrelated directions. only some psytrance manages to create a comparable balance (d5, chi-ad, braincell, logic bomb, ...).

 

@antic

come on, human evolution is a fun track

 

@imba

i agree about everything except the noise snare (why not?) and tracks without ups and downs. you don't like bpc - micromega? such tracks are the defintion of trance music to me. 

[mars]

I'm looking for enjoyment. All the rest is secondary.

[antic604]

@Imba, IronSun, Padmapani - thank you for your extensive answers. I'll leave feedback in the evening when I have some time.

 

 

 

I look for and like music that makes me get goose bumps.

 

I'm looking for enjoyment. All the rest is secondary.

 

Yeah, sure - but some people get pleasure from gentle stroking, others require heavy hit in the balls to feel anything

 

As IronSun suggested, I indeed spent some time trying to understand what gives *me* goose bumps and enjoyment, so I'd appreciate a bit more from you as well. Thanks

[thanosp81]

I have no idea.

[Starkraver]

I like music which either makes me smile or cry.

[Penzoline]

Emotions, atmospheres, sounds that make my mind transcend to somewhere else.

[Suttree]

From what has been posted so far in this interesting thread I see two main approaches, one more technical and rational (e.g. by the thread creator), the other more emotional and aesthetic. That reminded me of the philosophical dilemma Robert Pirsing unfolded in his Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, using the notions of 'classical' and 'romantic':

"A classical understanding sees the world primarily as underlying form itself. A romantic understanding sees it primarily in terms of immediate appearance. If you were to show an engine or a mechanical drawing or electronic schematic to a romantic it is unlikely he would see much of interest in it. It has no appeal because the reality he sees is its surface. Dull, complex lists of names, lines and numbers. Nothing interesting. But if you were to show the same blueprint or schematic or give the same description to a classical person he might look at it and then become fascinated by it because he sees that within the lines and shapes and symbols is a tremendous richness of underlying form".

When it comes to choosing and appreciating music, I would say I'm 70% romantic and 30% classical. Basically I'm in search of a meaningful moment (thank you, Shulman) that gives me emotions but I also pay attention to some extent to sound quality and musicians mastery.

[the goa constrictor]

Hips and a warm smile

[Trunksan]

First of all. I listen to a lot of of music styles and attend equally as many events: psytrance, opera, ballet, traditional Greek music, disco, metal. hardcore punk/metal, rock (especially stoner/sludge), house, techno, deep trance, chill, goa. Almost every weekend I go to some kind of music event. In fact I wish I could go to more techno events but the ticket price is too expensive for what is offered. It also changes with the season, I love some house or balaeric trance at the beach, but indoor I just can't stand it.

Obviously what I look in each style is different.

 

I think what I look in most music is: Purpose

 

I want a song to ultimately have something to achieve, a goal (me understanding it) and eventually achieving it.

A pop/opera/disco/rocks track is supposed to create some-kind of feeling with the music and the lyrics. I want to eventually feel it, it could be euphoria, love, anger, sadness.

A goa or psy track is supposed to cause some kind of psychedelic or euphoric feeling and possibly maybe me want to dance and get into somekind of trance.

A hardcore track is supposed to make me want to get into a fight or bang my own head on the wall. I want to feel that.

etc etc

 

I also appreciate technical abilities in people playing an instrument or writing a track but it's not really necessary to make me enjoy a track. Some disco tracks (Abba for example) are really so simple, yet I can't stop listening to them.

[Anoebis]

For me...

Harmony => Its not a secret I love harmonies in goa... I can absolutely adore the play of 2-3 (good!) melodies with eachother... I will never ever get tired of it... 

Energy => The adrenalin rushes... Waking up, going to my work by bike and arriving like a crazy guy because of the music...

Intellectual challenge => I can absolutely adore complex goa-trance or forest trance with crazy melodies/Sound effects allover... Tryting to filter all the different layers

Warmth/beauty => music should also be touching, some nice droney ambient that create that warm atmosphere, or some lovely floating goa...

[Ormion]

Honestly I can't answer.

I could say I'm looking for power, but I like mellow tracks as well.

Or looking for complexity, but I like a lot of simple tracks.

Or looking for melodies, but I like darkpsy.

Or looking for serious edm, but I like happy hardcore...

[antic604]

Thank you all for replying - it's interesting to see how each of us looks at the music. Keep the comments coming!

 

 

 

From what has been posted so far in this interesting thread I see two main approaches, one more technical and rational (e.g. by the thread creator), the other more emotional and aesthetic. 

 

Yeah, I was afraid my post can be interpreted as such...

 

But it's really not the case - what I tried to do is to dissect & point to the elements in music that make me fell joy, happiness, satisfaction, that give me the goosebumps. And indeed, to understand that I needed to be a bit more technical, trying to identify and name those things as accurately as I could. I don't think my emotional enjoyment of music is any less than Psychedelic Chipmunk's, Mars', Starkraver's or The Goa Constrictor's who resorted to talking about feelings. My goal was to take this one step further, to recognise what triggers those emotions - for me it's usually complexity, small details & subtlety, but e.g. for Imba it's more about power, energy and drive.

 

 

But then you have eclectic guys like Ormion...

 

Honestly I can't answer.
I could say I'm looking for power, but I like mellow tracks as well.
Or looking for complexity, but I like a lot of simple tracks.
Or looking for melodies, but I like darkpsy.
Or looking for serious edm, but I like happy hardcore...

 

 

[Suttree]

Thank you all for replying - it's interesting to see how each of us looks at the music. Keep the comments coming!

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I was afraid my post can be interpreted as such...

 

But it's really not the case - what I tried to do is to dissect & point to the elements in music that make me fell joy, happiness, satisfaction, that give me the goosebumps. And indeed, to understand that I needed to be a bit more technical, trying to identify and name those things as accurately as I could. I don't think my emotional enjoyment of music is any less than Psychedelic Chipmunk's, Mars', Starkraver's or The Goa Constrictor's who resorted to talking about feelings. My goal was to take this one step further, to recognise what triggers those emotions - for me it's usually complexity, small details & subtlety, but e.g. for Imba it's more about power, energy and drive.

 

 

But then you have eclectic guys like Ormion...

 

 

 

 

I read your initial post again and I have to reckon that it is not technically polarised, although it gives so much interesting technical information (you probably are a music professional). I'm sure you do appreciate music for what it gives you in terms of feelings and sensations like everybody does.

Thanks again for the intelligent thread

[recursion loop]

Really hard to explain. I deeply love some psytrance acts but when I'm asking for something in similar vein people often recommend me music which contains many similar elements but doesn't float my boat at all. 

 

Basically, when it comes to psy/goa, I'm looking for trancyness, otherworldy, sci-fi or futuristic aesthetics and emotional, sad or euphoric melodies. Don't like anything sounding too harsh, too evil or too dark. Finding psy with right melodies is the most tricky part, I don't like the chaotic melodies which are abundant in newschool goa, but on the other hand I can accept and even love some of the downright cheesy stuff, like Astrix or  Ananda Shake but hate when it becomes full-on clubby, like Sesto Sento or Intersys, and  I also can enjoy music mith very minimal melodies (many progressive acts, like e.g., Sideform, E-Clip or Egorhytmia). But If you ask me why I love Sideform and Ticon and can't stand Vini Vici or Liquid Soul I've got no answer, basically there are all the same elements but somehow they create completely different feel.

 

I don't care how innovative the music is, like the last Ticon album which carefully follows all the prog standards but I'm really enjoying it, while Nervasystem's Brainradio does nothing for me despite I agree that it is very innovative and technically immaculate.

 

So, well, many words but no definitive answer 

[Imba]

 

 but e.g. for Imba it's more about power, energy and drive.

 

 

 

In short lines i love fast, powerful, clean music but i also give a lot attention to details. Music wise and production wise. Doing and understanding music gives you different perception, i know things attracted me 10 years ago before i started, same things annoy me these days somehow lol

 

 

What most people find super good for me its meeeeeh, some of you probably spoted that. Goa trance is so tricky in many ways 

[antic604]

In short lines i love fast, powerful, clean music but i also give a lot attention to details. 

 

That can definitely be heard in your music!

 

Since I have your attention - what's happening with Space Elves and when do we get to hear samples from the upcoming album?

[Scandinasia]

What I'm looking for in music :

 

1_Energy.

 

Rythmic or melodic effects can feed my mind in the same way a meal can feed my body. It can even help me feeling stronger.

 

2_To connect to my inner universe through idiosyncrasy. 

 

This is what is most important to me. Psychedelic music (and some others) is a (musical) environment that works best with my own mind. It expresses with sounds my own psychological patterns, and therefore creates around me an environment that facilitates my connection to myself. It is like a support that excites my sensitivity and creativity. This idiosyncrasy allows me to get ideas, to relax, or to delve into my own feelings. I use it to create stories, to explore my inner universe, and to make awaken dreams.

 

3_To chill and relax 

 

4_To trip

 

Listening to music while being in a state of hypnagogia (transition state from being awaken to being asleep) is like using recreative drugs, except that it's free and does not damage the health.

 

5_Entertainment

 

Some musics are built onto very cool concepts, and offer entertaining panoramas.

[Anu Katariina]

I look for and like music that makes me get goose bumps.

+ 1

 

Antic604: I admire your capability to transfer your music listening experience into words. How in the world did you learn all the terminology anyways: it is not taught anywhere. This comment by @Abasio "Maybe what we need in the review section is a dictionary/thesaurus to help people understand the psychobabble we come out with" on a thread https://www.psynews.org/forums/topic/72069-a-simple-terminology-tutorial/page-2would be so great to have!

[desysko]

Lots of great points made here which I agree with.

 

One of the most important things for me is "storytelling". Not sure how I would describe it, but I love songs that have a flow to them. I've written about it before, but two modern artist that do a great job are Crossing Mind and Psysutra.

[Domilition]

Жаль, что я не могу писать по-русски. Много о чём хочется сказать.

It is sad that I can't write in Russian, there's much things I want to tell in this topic.

 

Any kind of music - it is music mainly (huh). I don't rate music only for its "traditional" sound of 90th (although I love it), and if the record doesn't contains the melodies (not "piu-piu" like the the most, but melodies), this record is a soap bubble in my opinion.

 

That's why I like Filteria, Artha, Infected Mushroom, Astral Projection, 1200, Pleiadiand, and that's why I don't like the rest of goa (especially released nowadays).

 

They all play the sound, not the music.