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Why do we keep worshipping the old Gods?


Djuna
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It's a thought that I've been thinking about lately, and a new topic brought it up...

 

To get straight to the point: not that they NEED to be, but most goa artists who made music in the 90's don't add a thing to the goa trance scene nowadays. The ones who do can be counted on one hand, figure of speech. But still all of them are treated as 'old gods', given the highest places on the line-ups at parties and festivals, increasing the subjective relevance. I can understand it, of course it's great to hear and see them again after all this time. Or to buy previously unreleased music on new physical releases. But I don't believe any more that it helps the goa scene to just replay old music and... nothing else. To grow, you have to create. Another symptom of that is that there's almost no synergy between new and old artists - old artists get the chance to play and promote their old music, while it's actually the new artists who keep the scene and goa trance alive. Two different situations where one sure is more finite than the other. This can't last forever, and shouldn't be counted on forever.

 

 

Any (other) thoughts?

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Any (other) thoughts?

This scene tends too much to enclose itself within its old standards. The early Goa wave had many sources of inspiration : trance, acid house, tecnho, EBM, psychedelic rock...

Today, the newschool wave gets inspired at 50% by oldschool Goa, at 40% by other newschool artists, and at 9% by psytrance.

 

And yes, it's a shame that the early Goa artists do not interest in the newschool wave.

 

 

In brief : enclosed background, lack of interactions.

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I get your first point - in 5 years of 'oldschool' there was much more diversity in music than in more than 10 years of newschool. We're all to blame I guess (artists, labels and listeners). But I'm not really talking about the music itself, but about the actual scene today and how it is being build up or down (that's debatable) by former known artists.

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It's a thought that I've been thinking about lately, and a new topic brought it up...

 

To get straight to the point: not that they NEED to be, but most goa artists who made music in the 90's don't add a thing to the goa trance scene nowadays. The ones who do can be counted on one hand, figure of speech. But still all of them are treated as 'old gods', given the highest places on the line-ups at parties and festivals, increasing the subjective relevance. I can understand it, of course it's great to hear and see them again after all this time. Or to buy previously unreleased music on new physical releases. But I don't believe any more that it helps the goa scene to just replay old music and... nothing else. To grow, you have to create. Another symptom of that is that there's almost no synergy between new and old artists - old artists get the chance to play and promote their old music, while it's actually the new artists who keep the scene and goa trance alive. Two different situations where one sure is more finite than the other. This can't last forever, and shouldn't be counted on forever.

 

 

Any (other) thoughts?

I can only agree...

 

In the end, when everyone is tired of the old dino's, I guess they will have interest in the newer generation... There is already some, but only little of course compared to the big ones... Only Filteria managed to become a real BIG one...

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In brief : enclosed background, lack of interactions.

I don't think that's the actual problem. Look at 80% of the popular psytrance scene in the real world out there and most of the big parties. They're really not playing the most diverse or innovating music out there. That's how it works in Trance, and that's how it works in basically each electronic music style, ranging from hardstyle to hardcore over drum n bass to house. the easily digestable variation of each musicstyle always attracts more people. Therefore, the fact that most newschool producers lack (this is debatable, of course) a certain background and strongly focus on the melodic style, shoudn't necesarily play in their disadvantage, imo.

 

I guess organisers just like to play it 'safe' and go for the artists that have proven their worth in the past. In that way, a vicious circle is created in which only the happy few get to play over and over again. As an artist intending to conquer the bigger stages, you can only break that circle by building up strong connections and a good network of friends and organisers that will eventually lead you to...gigs. that's just how the market works, and that's how it was in the past as well, i'm pretty sure of it.

 

Btw: Lost Theory has newschool, SUN festival 2015 will feature quite some newschool as well(Jos will probably be so kind to confirm this :P)as well as Connection festival of course. Besides there's a gazillion of Israeli festivals and gigs with newschool music (scene there is bigger than the whole worldwide scene put together in one place), as well as countless smaller gigs scattered around the world (with very low impact, of course). So it isn't all that bad, although I can agree during 2009-2013 not much seemed to move in the big festival line ups, besides Filteria here and there, ofc :)

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Btw: Lost Theory has newschool, SUN festival 2015 will feature quite some newschool as well(Jos will probably be so kind to confirm this :P)as well as Connection festival of course. Besides there's a gazillion of Israeli festivals and gigs with newschool music (scene there is bigger than the whole worldwide scene put together in one place), as well as countless smaller gigs scattered around the world (with very low impact, of course). So it isn't all that bad, although I can agree during 2009-2013 not much seemed to move in the big festival line ups, besides Filteria here and there, ofc :)

I confirm :P There will be quiet a lot of modern goa trance on Sun, and this will only be the start... Wait for next year :P As I said, on more or less every big festival there is SOME modern goa trance at least, on most even 5-10 acts. And yes, ISrael is another story :) I think I could make a living out of trance if I would live there :P

 

Else, I agree, about the friends & gigs stuff, but on the other hand... Guys like Filteria, me, E-Mantra, started really without knowing anyone and simply builded a reputation through music, not through asslicking etc... :) it CAN, but takes a loong time, passion and dedication...

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The more good music is coming out the more this situation will change. I guess the majority of goa lovers still prefer old school from new school. The better newschool is getting the more praise the new artists will get.

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For me its nostalgia (when this genere was still evolving, memories of finding

a new artist or a compi at the cd shop, getting back home and inviting friends to listen to it

and enjoy/talk).

 

And second, well its simply superior and more 'emotional' 'deep' then 99.9% of things released today (IMO).

 

As for newschool, im not a big fan of the newschool train, i do enjoy 'special' unorthdox

music - it can be anything realy some 'newschool' goa tracks, 'forest' 'dark'.

 

But as far as it comes to real oldschool goa, well its in my DNA by now, i was there when it happened.

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IMO, it's because of how old-school Goa was more original and innovative (even more experimental) than most new-school stuff.

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Because the "old masters" actually made good music (some of them). We don't worship them for being old, but for what they produced. Their music is the stuff we go back to time and time again. It's the same in all genres, and here's how it goes. In the beginning, the music is innovative, free, experimental, authentic. After some success and popularity, all sorts of crappy producers flock in to capitalize on it. The music becomes formulaic and most of it is worthless junk, yet a hardcore group of wannabe fans clings to the "scene" and pretends that it's still good and that they're "keeping it alive". Meanwhile, most of the talented producers have long moved on.

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I don't think this is so much a case with the wider psytrance scene, but certainly on Psynews with its heavy Goa-bias, there seems to be an elevating of the original Goa artists and the feeling that nothing else quite measures up.

When I first started to use the forum I found it a bit odd. Goa trance (old or new) is hardly mentioned elsewhere comparitively and I know several people (DJs & producers included) who don't actually like Goa trance at all. (Mainly because of the melodies.)

Go figure! ^_^

 

Personally, while I went to parties in the 90s and still love Hallucinogen, Shakta, Prana etc, I enjoy new music including darkpsy & forest every bit as much.

I do find the way that some people can't seem to enjoy anything from after the"golden years" a little bit sad.

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I don't feel the scene is "being built down" by having older artists play. The start of getting new school artists on any line ups at all, was related to having the old artists play I believe.

 

It got people interested in Goa again and eventually, today, we are at a point where there is more new artists playing than in the last ten years, thanks to a lot of hard work by Joske and all the artists themselves.

 

Now sure, maybe in 5/10 years or something the old guys won't need to play as much anymore as others will have taken their place. Well maybe even Filteria will be seen as old by then hah.

 

For now I think there is room for both and we should be grateful to see them at all while we still can.

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Looking back, I seem to have pretty much missed the actual point of this thread - :lol:

 

Getting back on track - it does seem that there are quite a few headline (or thereabouts) slots occupied by old school Goa artists at festivals this year - even here in the UK.

We have the likes of Infected Mushroom (old school live) headlining Boomtown Fair's Psychedelic Forest, along with Juno Reactor, Green Nuns, Slinky Wizard & Astrix. The Green Nuns are also playing a DJ set at Bearded Theory and at Sunrise there's GMS and a DJ set from 1200 mics. :blink:

All of these acts are way past their best in my mind and I'd much rather see some new-school Goa artists on the line-ups. I can only think that they've been booked on the strength of their reputation from days gone by and are likely to attract a number of people simply because they might have heard of them. (And getting a DJ set off these kind of acts is a bit low-rent don't you think?)

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Guest The Hypnotic LFO Room

I think it's on high time the old artists gets a spot on the stages as they have been ignored for years (except for the 5-10 usual suspects) while countless of copycats has flooded the scene with stereotype music. Here I think about all the similar sounding "machine-gun bassline lets make some fart sounds and become famous" artists and the "umpa umpa progressive (we also try to make techno but fail) beaten to death acts". The old geezers still have plenty to offer and it's never too late to be educated about this scenes history and to listen to IMO real trance (that does not stop so we can get our hands high in the air every 2 minutes).

 

P.S. And when it comes to "worshiping" acts there has never been more worshiping than in today's scene where "god-like" stars stand on huge stages being hailed by the masses. On the contrary the old days was all about the music and less about the man/woman behind the music.

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  • 2 years later...

Ok, back on the actual topic: An example: Psychaos' track 'Intellect'. It's not even an outstanding track, just a good one. It has a certain level of funk though, it's funky and it just rocks, doesn't sound overproduced. I know maybe 10-12 tracks from the 'newschool era' that deliver that level of quality. That's not much is it? That's why the pioneers (not gods!) of Goa Trance get that much respect while newcomers don't get that much of it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The "old gods" had lots of talent. Back then music was made with hardware, which was expensive. So to actually make a basic track you would need to buy hardware for several thousand euros. If you were prepaired to make that investment you probably already had some talent. Today, the cost of making a track is the cost of a computer. The results, anyone can make music, and that doesn't lead to quality, it's leads to quantity.

I realise now, that the cost of equipment probably hade another consequence: many acts were two or more members. Pleiadians/Etnica, X-dream, Total Eclipse, Slinky Wizard, Juno Reactor, Koxbox, Quirk, Technossomy, UX. Why could this be relevant? Because more members lead to more influences and more ideas. I can think of a handful of neo goa acts that consist of two or more members,

There were a lot of creativity and as psytrance spread over the world, people added their ideas to the music, and the music kept evolving. Suntrip has been releasing neo goa for 13 years now, and in my opinion, the sound hasn't changed that much during that period. I'm sure others will disagree. The production quality has however increased, but that sound is more or less the same. In short, the "old gods" get worshipped because neo goa is a modern take on that old sound.

I have a public Spotify playlist with what I consider to be the best melodic sunshine neo goa tracks, and even though I've scanned 13 years of neo goa tracks I haven't found more than 20 great tracks. I do realise that some great tracks are missing on Spotify. Feel free to follow that playlist if you want to know what tracks an old timer enjoys. I often listen to that playlist when I'm running. 

 

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Short answer without having time to read the whole discussion:

There was more variety and original ideas in music before 1998 or so. Also production was very different, so the music has a fresh sound, that's just growing more, the further away we go from time (like 60s/70s rock/prog music, it just has a sound that is very hard to replicate production wise since that same equipment and multi-million dollar analog studios are replaced by other things). And respect is different from worship. There's also a lot of old music that does not really work anymore.

 

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On 8.10.2017 at 9:50 AM, Trolsk said:

The "old gods" ( .... )

I realise now, that the cost of equipment probably hade another consequence: many acts were two or more members. Pleiadians/Etnica, X-dream, Total Eclipse, Slinky Wizard, Juno Reactor, Koxbox, Quirk, Technossomy, UX. Why could this be relevant? Because more members lead to more influences and more ideas. I can think of a handful of neo goa acts that consist of two or more members,



+ that each person maybe had a certain equipment (hard to get a hold of, costly), like "hey you got a guitar, i got drums, he's got a Bass. Lets combine."

The old gods (oldskool before fullon came in) wont be around to play/present their (old) music for us Live 4 ever. So a lot of people are appreciating this oppertunity that the Neogoafanatics has pushed for. Its really neat, the way that it is now, has become - after the decade with fullon and prog. And how Psytrance as awhole will develope it self is constantly interesting. The 2005 "Psytrance is Dead" era for sure proved that good. Imo 2005-6 has some of the very best releases out there even though certain people where screaming that Psytrance is dead. Goa is a goal. Like phenix.
For a whole wave of Goatrance lovers these last few years is heaving heaven forfilled. Many like me; the idea to experience Pleiadiens live (not the fullon) was thought to be a gone oppertunity and missed out on 4 ever.
 

 

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It's not like I categorically decide that ALL newschool goa/psy is necessarely bad. I TRY to keep an open mind. Much of the new music sadly doesn't elicit any emotion in me. The 90s goa isn't good because it's from the 90s. It's good because it has a life of its own, if you will. It has soul, substance, whatever you want to call it.

 

There are plenty of recent releases that I enjoy. Frankly, there's an assload more from the old days. Oh and, I was just a kid during the 90s, so it's not like I "grew up with it", I discovered bits and pieces in late 90s and I really got into the genre in like 2005-06. I didn't come to prefer 90s goa because of the bandwagon saying "old is gold" to somehow "fit in" with the big boys. I simply like what they used to make a LOT more.

 

I can also see the other side of the story - that is "things change". Well, I still have the right to not like it :)

 

The music made back then hasn't disappeared. It's no less relevant than it was back then hence these fellows deserve all the praise. If they lost their way now, one may simply ignore them.

Talamasca, AP, Koxbox to name some, made some excellent music. So for THAT music they deserve all the praise imo. I don't worship what, for example, Tala is NOW, I praise him for what he used to be. No different with any other goa "god" :)

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47 minutes ago, psychedelic chipmunk said:

sca, AP, Koxbox to name some, made some excellent music. So for THAT music they deserve all the praise imo. I don't worship what, for example, Tala is NOW, I praise him for what he used to be. No different with any other goa "god" :)

Even Koxbox's last album was bad. And no reason to talk about AP, I have given up on them years ago.

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On 08/10/2017 at 8:50 AM, Trolsk said:

The "old gods" had lots of talent. Back then music was made with hardware, which was expensive. So to actually make a basic track you would need to buy hardware for several thousand euros. If you were prepaired to make that investment you probably already had some talent. Today, the cost of making a track is the cost of a computer. The results, anyone can make music, and that doesn't lead to quality, it's leads to quantity.

Also, depending on the hardware the the group/artist had invested on this had an impact on their sound making distinct from other artists. 

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