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Why do psy artists become less "psy" over time?


healium
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Evolve in your own style you used as roots before, if you made old school i think you should make new school.

Good example is Cosmosis, last few albums were psy and not that much atractive but see last one.

 

Tracks like Space Siren, Beyond Five Senses and The Eternal Now are powerful.

 

Thats evolution imo.

 

Goa trance influence/background and few melodies doesn't make your album 100% goa trance. ;)

 

so-called "new Goa" which IMO try to copy what has already been made (And fail IMO). That is not evolution.

Pretty nice examples of evolution in sound is E-Mantra or Filteria, they're doing wonderful psychedelic music and every new release from thoose two projects goes further. There is a lot of other examples. Evolution or not, I'm sure it is the most psychedelic stuff Im gonna find on nowdays psychedelic trance scene. And for me, oldschool goa trance doesn't have any connection with nowdays goa trance music - pretty much whole thing is about new people, new projects/artists and new labels.
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it's not only a style change, some artist i know from here just get so much worse over time it seems. it's like you can hear the drag/boredom/rut or something.

 

what i dont understand is, how can you make a really good baseline all the time that is really involved with your track, full of life and then years later make it so dull, boring, stale, distanciated. its so hard to think they dont have the capacity to hear that themselves. the only thing i can think of is just not caring, and THAT might be what stings/offends people.

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Musicians have a double-edged sword when it comes to changes in their style. If they stay "true to their roots", they'll be criticized by people who think they should evolve. If they change, they'll be criticized by people who liked their original style better. Can't please everybody.

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Musicians have a double-edged sword when it comes to changes in their style. If they stay "true to their roots", they'll be criticized by people who think they should evolve. If they change, they'll be criticized by people who liked their original style better. Can't please everybody.

 

Exactly and that's why an artist should say "I dont give a rats a** what they think".

 

Who know, maybe i leave music in few years but for sure i will not make house or pop psy trance lol

 

I dont think I've come across a more narrow-minded person musically speaking than you. Only ones I can think off are the die hard hardcore darkpsy fans. Advice. Open up your mind ;)

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I dont think I've come across a more narrow-minded person musically speaking than you. Only ones I can think off are the die hard hardcore darkpsy fans. Advice. Open up your mind ;)

 

Ahhh....darkpsy fans again...

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I think that the main reason psy is not so psychedelic anymore is due to something that man cannot analyse easily: inspiration is related to a certain point in time, place, and it's finite because of that.

I have noticed it over a lot of different areas where talent is involved. In my case, I see it happening in music and in literature. Take rock, for instance, so we can draw a clear comparison

to what's happening in the psy scene.

Rock had its peak from the 1960s to the 1980s. Over that 20 years span, it went from Beatle's school of rock, to heavy metal and finally in 1980s to the synth-pop-rock.

All of these three different 'ages' had their peaks (personally I feel related to 1980s, I miss a lot what the likes of Van Halen, Whitesnake did), and then rock'n roll simply faded into a

tasteless state. What happened from 1990s then? IMO, we lost the 'romantic' aura that influenced 1960s-1980s generations. Back then there were more feelings (bad and good, dark and

light feelings) involved in the writing of a track.

 

Back to our psy scene, there were more feelings, opinions, backgrounds, feedbacks, experiences involved in the writing and producing of a track.

Also a lot of then psy producers had just crossed the line from synth-pop (or were influenced by dramatic groups like Depeche Mode, New Order, The Cure), and they brought this

load with them to psy.

 

That's why psy sounded more 'soulful' then. Today's psy is under the influence of the 1990s and 2000s, which were simply tasteless for music of every genre, save for hip-hop and

RnB - whose political anti-racial tracks not always are meaningful for people outside US and GB. Of course, there were some good acts, but they are not as rich musically as it was till the 1980s.

 

I have an example to cite: AC/DC, who with their last album just reached the sky. Why? Because they wrote their tracks exactly as if they were in 1980s. Listen to their albums, you'll

learn what I am talking about.

 

To psy again: we won't have another "goa atmosphere" as we had in mid 1990s-early 2000s. Places, religions, politics, travelling, the whole 2010s atmosphere itself have no room for "mystique" anymore.

We have, yes, room for high-end technology, but this can't replace the human factor.

 

In the end, I think Goa is past, a past in Glory mind you, we have now to expect a new wave of 'sentimental' tracks, which will not be related deeply to Goa.

IMO, this will come from NeoGoa scene, when it matures.

 

My 2 cents.

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Two other possibilities:

 

(1) There has been tremendous evolution in musical production and recording technology over the last 20 years. Maybe some of the psy/goa pioneers just got bored with these toys after the initial period of experimentation.

 

(2) A lot of psy/goa music is burdened by the incredible monotony of the standard rhythmic structure. Maybe some producers just get tired of this straitjacket.

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There are ambient producers like Steve Roach or Robert RIch that have been doing music of the same genre,style and philosophy for more than 20+ years, without it gettin' boring or tiresome ...

@ Elysium, dark psy trance has/had a lot of gems to show ...

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Two other possibilities:

 

(1) There has been tremendous evolution in musical production and recording technology over the last 20 years. Maybe some of the psy/goa pioneers just got bored with these toys after the initial period of experimentation.

+1

 

(2) A lot of psy/goa music is burdened by the incredible monotony of the standard rhythmic structure. Maybe some producers just get tired of this straitjacket.

 

Then they should make Suomi :P
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Artists that never evolve aren't artists in my book.

 

Sure, but it's perfectly possible for an artist to evolve into something other than generic, mainstream-sounding music. E.g. look at Kindzadza or Autechre or The Beatles or Shostakovich or...

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I think that the main reason psy is not so psychedelic anymore is due to something that man cannot analyse easily: inspiration is related to a certain point in time, place, and it's finite because of that.

I have noticed it over a lot of different areas where talent is involved. In my case, I see it happening in music and in literature. Take rock, for instance, so we can draw a clear comparison

to what's happening in the psy scene.

Rock had its peak from the 1960s to the 1980s. Over that 20 years span, it went from Beatle's school of rock, to heavy metal and finally in 1980s to the synth-pop-rock.

All of these three different 'ages' had their peaks (personally I feel related to 1980s, I miss a lot what the likes of Van Halen, Whitesnake did), and then rock'n roll simply faded into a

tasteless state. What happened from 1990s then? IMO, we lost the 'romantic' aura that influenced 1960s-1980s generations. Back then there were more feelings (bad and good, dark and

light feelings) involved in the writing of a track.

 

Back to our psy scene, there were more feelings, opinions, backgrounds, feedbacks, experiences involved in the writing and producing of a track.

Also a lot of then psy producers had just crossed the line from synth-pop (or were influenced by dramatic groups like Depeche Mode, New Order, The Cure), and they brought this

load with them to psy.

 

That's why psy sounded more 'soulful' then. Today's psy is under the influence of the 1990s and 2000s, which were simply tasteless for music of every genre, save for hip-hop and

RnB - whose political anti-racial tracks not always are meaningful for people outside US and GB. Of course, there were some good acts, but they are not as rich musically as it was till the 1980s.

 

I have an example to cite: AC/DC, who with their last album just reached the sky. Why? Because they wrote their tracks exactly as if they were in 1980s. Listen to their albums, you'll

learn what I am talking about.

 

To psy again: we won't have another "goa atmosphere" as we had in mid 1990s-early 2000s. Places, religions, politics, travelling, the whole 2010s atmosphere itself have no room for "mystique" anymore.

We have, yes, room for high-end technology, but this can't replace the human factor.

 

In the end, I think Goa is past, a past in Glory mind you, we have now to expect a new wave of 'sentimental' tracks, which will not be related deeply to Goa.

IMO, this will come from NeoGoa scene, when it matures.

 

My 2 cents.

 

This, although simplified and a bit crude, is an interesting perspective on musical development!

 

:)

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I think producing music for wider audience (music that they can get into) is a bigger challenge.

 

Also, if you're producing (and listening to) psytrance, you're stuck in a box:

- purists don't let you make a step left or right

- variation between artists is so tiny

- psytrance isn't house or techno, psy only takes from these two, and they evolve much quickly than psy, besides they are genuine, "psy-house" is secondary... and I enjoy house with vocals (not euro vocal house). The same with other psy sub-genres. Basically goa was the only genuine psychedelic electronic music, everything else was already there - you only add some special synths over it and there you've got psy-something.

 

With all of this you can only get bored with psytrance, being a producer or listener.

 

UPD: A part from that, we all probably started as teenagers... and people tend to grow up, tastes change too.

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I think producing music for wider audience (music that they can get into) is a bigger challenge.

 

I suppose it might be. Someone going for pure artistry doesn't have the factor of wide appeal to work into the song, but on the other hand there are some pretty simple, generic things that go into music that is widely popular:

 

- A rhythm and/or beat that makes it danceable/pogoable/moshable (speaking across the music spectrum here)

- A 'hook' that is easily remembered and recognized later around which the song is based. Think The Beatles' "I Want to Hold Your Hand", The Doors "Hello, I Love You", Michael Jackson's "Billie Jean", even Astral Projection's "Mahadeva".

- Simple and obvious. Once music gets too abstract or complicated, most listeners loses interest.

 

If someone wanted to appeal to a wide audience, they could base their songs around these simple things, and use style just to fill in the blanks.

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too much ignorant chatter around...

 

anyway, i have been a follower of artists that took my attention, which everybody knows is a natural process, the real question is, who does the artists make music for, ive come to know that its rarely for themselve, most of artists dont seem to put themself on the position of the listener, and this is where ignorance starts...

 

but to answer the question, yes money is part of it, but i dont know what f*cking life you can gain and how much you can feed urself from "PSY", i had the chance to know some artists personally and one of the things that kills the music in their mind is...COKE. Have you ever questioned yourself why artists tend to be less convincing in story telling music and switching to more easy and straight forward music where you can feel the unpatience behind it? everytime i found this on artists, COKE was the subject of their life. for most of the people im prejudicing, but hey, the artists that i deeply love seem to be most of the time sober, LOL.

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too much ignorant chatter around...

 

anyway, i have been a follower of artists that took my attention, which everybody knows is a natural process, the real question is, who does the artists make music for, ive come to know that its rarely for themselve, most of artists dont seem to put themself on the position of the listener, and this is where ignorance starts...

 

but to answer the question, yes money is part of it, but i dont know what f*cking life you can gain and how much you can feed urself from "PSY", i had the chance to know some artists personally and one of the things that kills the music in their mind is...COKE. Have you ever questioned yourself why artists tend to be less convincing in story telling music and switching to more easy and straight forward music where you can feel the unpatience behind it? everytime i found this on artists, COKE was the subject of their life. for most of the people im prejudicing, but hey, the artists that i deeply love seem to be most of the time sober, LOL.

 

NONSENSE:... I know a lot of artists in many scenes and none of them does coke (incl. myself) and speaking on behalf of myself I only do music for myself and I only make music I like myself no matter what genre I am working within. I don't try to please anyone and I am not doing it for money. I know other artists who think the same way I do. So one thing you do here is GENERALIZING!

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NONSENSE:... I know a lot of artists in many scenes and none of them does coke (incl. myself) and speaking on behalf of myself I only do music for myself and I only make music I like myself no matter what genre I am working within. I don't try to please anyone and I am not doing it for money. I know other artists who think the same way I do. So one thing you do here is GENERALIZING!

 

And all generalizations are false! :P

 

Anyhow, music production is never a linear process. There are soooo many factors involved, especially in artist's evolution that there is no 1 answer to the topic question. It is a case by case study, and differs from person to person. There have been mentioned a lot of theories in this thread and I am sure that each of these theories hold true to some extent, but never can explain the entirety of the question why psy artists become less "psy" over time.

 

One of the most plausible I think, and probably one of the most recurring reason is, like mentioned before, that artists get bored with what they do if it's the same thing over and over. No-one ever said that it was forbidden to explore the realms of music as one sees fit, and I find it horrible that artists get judged by that, whatever reasons they might have.

 

Laissez faire!

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Interesting discussion!

 

Personally I love it when an artist changes their style and tries to make something that isn't typical psytrance.. I'm totally unimpressed by this whole wave of goa copycat artists like Filteria, Astrancer, Laughing Buddha, Ketzhel - pretty much all of them off the Suntrip label are producing generic goatrance.. I really like that new Alienapia album but that is about it...

 

My only concern about a lot of regular electro and house and such is that it lacks depth and trippy-ness - couldn't they just use the beat/rhythmic structure of electro or house, but make it also really trippy and deep at the same time?

 

Personally I don't like dancing to the psytrance beat - it's too damn fast and relentless for me - but I love the complexity of the layers, effects, and melodies - I listen to psy because a lot of other electronic music doesn't take me on a journey like psytrance and psy-downtempo do..

 

So I'd love to see a psytrance producer make a different genre of music, but why does house and electro or breakbeat music always seem so simple and non-trippy - can't there be like "psyhouse" or psyelectro" or whatever?

 

If anyone can recommend some really deep trippy stuff from another genre I'm all ears!

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NONSENSE:... I know a lot of artists in many scenes and none of them does coke (incl. myself) and speaking on behalf of myself I only do music for myself and I only make music I like myself no matter what genre I am working within. I don't try to please anyone and I am not doing it for money. I know other artists who think the same way I do. So one thing you do here is GENERALIZING!

 

oh excuse me, you seem affiliated, didnt mean to.

 

believe it or not, drugs were, are and will be a catalyst in this scene, and its not your (artists) fault on that. I am not backing up anything here, and just as you, i like seeing normal faces instead of wrecked sweaty foreheads with hidden pupills in the morning, but both me and you have to agree on one thing, especially on the PSY scene, these are the people that *dominate* in our parties. I've been on parties where people left because there were no pills around even though the dj was spinning top quality stuff. just like IronSun said, everyone here is right! just take my last example, why would an artist care if sober people on the dancefloor represent a minority.

 

and yes, artists change/evolve, but remember, its style that gives them the name, not letters and not personality, and thats what disapoints people, thats the reason why this thread exists.

 

ps, i wonder how many artists have played high on gigs? i got a feeling the number would surprise all of us.

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It's funny that people are fighting for three pages for the wrong reason.

 

The topic is why psy artists become less "psy" over time, not why psy artists evolve their sound.

 

A psy artist can choose from dozens of genres (both electronic and not), but it seems that most of them decide to ride the mainstream wagon.

Check out IM. A famous psy band that tried something different with the second cd of Converting Vegetarians, but from there they went completelly mainstream with adding vocals and having rockstar perfomances.

 

I also don't get how psytrance can limit an artist if he decides to evolve. You can be as morning or dark, groovy or aggressive, spacey or rough in psytrance. Yet most of the old school legends turn to full on or prog.

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It's funny that people are fighting for three pages for the wrong reason.

 

The topic is why psy artists become less "psy" over time, not why psy artists evolve their sound.

 

A psy artist can choose from dozens of genres (both electronic and not), but it seems that most of them decide to ride the mainstream wagon.

Check out IM. A famous psy band that tried something different with the second cd of Converting Vegetarians, but from there they went completelly mainstream with adding vocals and having rockstar perfomances.

 

I also don't get how psytrance can limit an artist if he decides to evolve. You can be as morning or dark, groovy or aggressive, spacey or rough in psytrance. Yet most of the old school legends turn to full on or prog.

 

So psy artist that become less "psy" over time is not an evolution? :unsure:

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So psy artist that become less "psy" over time is not an evolution? :unsure:

 

It is, but it's obvious that healium doesn't ask ''Why psy artists evolve their sound?'' or ''Why psy artists don't just produce the same music again and again?''.

He asks why psy artist evolve their sound in more mainstream categories?

 

I see people argue over why artists evolve their sound. That's not the case. The case is why the majority evolve their sound to the same genre.

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It is, but it's obvious that healium doesn't ask ''Why psy artists evolve their sound?'' or ''Why psy artists don't just produce the same music again and again?''.

He asks why psy artist evolve their sound in more mainstream categories?

 

I see people argue over why artists evolve their sound. That's not the case. The case is why the majority evolve their sound to the same genre.

 

I say MONEY!

 

Hah, just joking. My thoughts stay the same on this, maybe influenced a little bit by sheep behavior? I mean, someone had to start the full on/progressive bandwagon, others saw that it was successful and just hopped on. Even though the psy community holds countering the societies' sheep behavior in high regards, the counterculture sheep behavior is just as much a reality. People do the same things, whoever you are, wherever you are. So a possible stream of thought could maybe go like this: "Hey I'm bored with this old sound, I want to do something new. Let's look around what the others are doing. Oh, they're making full on (or progressive), let's give that a shot!" Most of the time I think, producers are a lot less picky when it comes to music than the fans of the appropriate genre, since they're just trying out new things, making new music.

 

If this sounds like total bullshit to you, you can just ignore what I said :lol:

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I say MONEY!

 

Hah, just joking. My thoughts stay the same on this, maybe influenced a little bit by sheep behavior? I mean, someone had to start the full on/progressive bandwagon, others saw that it was successful and just hopped on. Even though the psy community holds countering the societies' sheep behavior in high regards, the counterculture sheep behavior is just as much a reality. People do the same things, whoever you are, wherever you are. So a possible stream of thought could maybe go like this: "Hey I'm bored with this old sound, I want to do something new. Let's look around what the others are doing. Oh, they're making full on (or progressive), let's give that a shot!" Most of the time I think, producers are a lot less picky when it comes to music than the fans of the appropriate genre, since they're just trying out new things, making new music.

 

If this sounds like total bullshit to you, you can just ignore what I said :lol:

 

No I don't think it's bullshit, I agree with your opinion.

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Most of the time I think, producers are a lot less picky when it comes to music than the fans of the appropriate genre, since they're just trying out new things, making new music.

 

so true, to me psytrance is just music like any other genre, i like it but its not the holy graal like some ppl think no genre is... there is good and bad shit in every genre you just have to dig...

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