Do you think that the Psytrance scene is a subculture?

[Ormion]

This is kind of off topic. It's not just about music, but about the whole scene. If any mod thinks it's unrelated to General topic he can close it anytime.

 

What do I mean as a subculture?

 

Something like the Heavy Metal scene. It's a music genre, but it has its own symbols. From the way the people are dressed or their haircuts or the trademarks of the scene=darkness, demons, religious themes, gore, black etc.

Rock music for example doesn't have a subculture. There are fanatical rock listeners, but with the popularity and the diversity of the scene today is very difficult to call it a subculture. It used to have back in the 60's (although I don't know if screaming Beatles groupies qualify as a subculture ) 70's or even 80's, but not any more IMO.

Pop doesn't have a subculture for obvious reasons. Not even Jazz or classical music. Hip Hop used to have, but after the MTV-gansta impact it's lost it. (Although they're still a core of real hip hop lovers).

 

In electronic & dance music I can't think of any genre with a subculture except the industrial scene (who belong in a larger group of a dark culture and IMO it didn't born from the music, if you know what I mean).

 

Maybe noise, but the audience is too small to create a subculture,

or hardcore, but they are chavs so...

 

So we stick with Psytrance which IMO has a subculture. Parties with specific concepts, trademark symbols like Shiva, Ganesha and more Hindu stuff, Aliens, Fractals, Sci-Fi themes, Spiritual concepts, a PLUR attitude (which today maybe doesn't exist that much but it's still there IMO), etc.

 

I hope you got what I mean.

 

What do you think? It has? has not? used to have?

[Basilisk]

Yes, psytrance is its own subculture. I don't know so much about the rest of the world but here in Canada it is very concentrated, very tight. The people are different, the parties are different, and the whole feeling of the psytrance experience is very different from any other music scene. Psytrance has its own fashion, its own messaging. For all of these reasons (and more) I would argue that it is a distinct countercultural movement.

[NEMO.BOFH]

This is kind of off topic. It's not just about music, but about the whole scene. If any mod thinks it's unrelated to General topic he can close it anytime.

 

What do I mean as a subculture?

 

Something like the Heavy Metal scene. It's a music genre, but it has its own symbols. From the way the people are dresses or their haircuts or the trademarks of the scene=darkness, demons, religious themes, gore, black etc.

Rock music for example doesn't have a subculture. There are fanatical rock listeners, but with the popularity and the diversity of the scene today is very difficult to call it a subculture. It used to have back in the 60's (although I don't know if screaming Beatles groupies qualify as a subculture ) 70's or even 80's, but not any more IMO.

Pop doesn't have a subculture for obvious reasons. Not even Jazz or classical music. Hip Hop used to have, but after the MTV-gansta impact it's lost it. (Although they're still a core of real hip hop lovers).

 

In electronic & dance music I can't think of any genre with a subculture except the industrial scene (who belong in a larger group of a dark culture and IMO it didn't born from the music, if you know what I mean).

 

Maybe noise, but the audience is too small to create a subculture,

or hardcore, but they are chavs so...

 

So we stick with Psytrance which IMO has a subculture. Parties with specific concepts, trademark symbols like Shiva, Ganesha and more Hindu stuff, Aliens, Fractals, Sci-Fi themes, Spiritual concepts, a PLUR attitude (which today maybe doesn't exist that much but it's still there IMO), etc.

 

I hope you got what I mean.

 

What do you think? It has? has not? used to have?

What would be the "main culture" in this case? Techno? Acid House? Just a question, not an attack. I believe the "Psytrance Scene" is a culture itself, maybe spawned by the Electro Culture, and so on and so on... People into Electronic Music have always differentiated themselves from other kind of scenes, just as the PsyRock scene or the Psychabilly, or Rockabilly scene. Rock for sure has its different cultures, I happen to be very much into Psychobilly/Rockabilly stuff, and I tell you that there is a BIG scene that has just what you describe here above.

 

But yeah, I think that the PsyScene is a culture by itself, and that no matter if we love DarkPsy, IsraTrance, Full on or Goa, we still share the same core values. We do fight about it a lot though!

[Ormion]

What would be the "main culture" in this case? Techno? Acid House? Just a question, not an attack. I believe the "Psytrance Scene" is a culture itself, maybe spawned by the Electro Culture, and so on and so on... People into Electronic Music have always differentiated themselves from other kind of scenes, just as the PsyRock scene or the Psychabilly, or Rockabilly scene. Rock for sure has its different cultures, I happen to be very much into Psychobilly/Rockabilly stuff, and I tell you that there is a BIG scene that has just what you describe here above.

 

But yeah, I think that the PsyScene is a culture by itself, and that no matter if we love DarkPsy, IsraTrance, Full on or Goa, we still share the same core values. We do fight about it a lot though!

I actually used the word subculture as in ''small culture'' meaning and not as a part of a main culture.

My bad

[draeke]

it surely is a subculture, probably is correct to say also that it express itself in different ways in different countries.

a party in italy is very different from a party in england and probably one in israel and one in canada will be different too.

 

there are of course the "classic symbols" which were taken from the hindu/indian culture and broadcasted all over the world on the cds, in the artwork related, in the backdrops etc.. and of course in the clothing: space tribe would be an easy way to sum it up.

 

but as i can say is less sterotyped right now, i know people around me in italy who like the music and go occasionally to the parties but they would never dress themselves in fluo shirts, or indian shirts or label shirts, they would go normally dressed and they don't have dradlocks nor long hair, nothing: the average joe, your neighbor.

 

I also dressed occasionally space tribe alike for certain parties but i never had a weird haircut or too wicked clothes, except when i was aged 22 and partying in london, but that was just for 4 months.

 

In the party of 2006, twisted Simon birthday i revived the spirit and dressed all fractal alike but was a very spcieal occasion, to see green nuns etc.

 

i am saying all of this cause for example i can see loads of heavy metal likers that dress everyday with black leather, have logn hairs and they go around everywhere like that, in milano we have loads of them. i can't say the same for psytrancers, so maybe there is quite a difference in the style and trance listeners are much more confounded with the crowd

 

not sure if i expressed myself well but to sum it up we are a VERY small community

[Rotwang]

What do I mean as a subculture?

 

Something like the Heavy Metal scene. It's a music genre, but it has its own symbols. From the way the people are dressed or their haircuts or the trademarks of the scene=darkness, demons, religious themes, gore, black etc.

I've thought for a long time that the psy scene has a lot in common with the metal scene. There aren't many genres that inspire the kind of devotion among its their listeners that means you can identify fans of that genre by looking at them (I'm not saying this applies to all or even the majority of psytrancers, but there are people who go about their everyday lives wearing space tribe shirts or fairy outfits with fluoro wool dreads). And another thing psytrance has in common with metal is that AFAIK it's one of the few genuinely international genres, with listeners showing no particular preference for artists from a small number of countries.

[Anoebis]

As many people said it probably depends on every country indeed... but I think it is a sub culture as well...

 

Go to a party allover the world, and the vibe is mostly the same, the decoration somehow the same, and in the summer you can see many people dance the same... Also clothing, even certain rituals are the same between many many people from all over the world, which means this is a international, global sub-culture...

 

Some people resemble to black metal, well... I think it is the same, you have the typical metal dude (black clothes, long hair, iron around his arms) and you have the typical goa head (dreadlocks, fluoro or indian style clothes, lots of drugs,...) but that doesn't mean ALL goa heads, or all metal lovers look like that!

 

if you go to Belgium for instance you will see in the old school scene probably 60% of the people were fluoro shirts, batik shirts, indian stuff and have dreads, but 40% looks "normal"

 

In my case, I guess I look like the most typical goa head you could imagine, but with the difference I stay off drugs, alcohol, caffeïne,... and I do have a job, even a public one I never felt the urge to travel for 10 years or move to some far away country

[amphiton]

Definitely a subculture, and a very closed one here in Ukraine, we even joke that we're a religious sect Everything changes though, more people come in, some go out. Everybody's more dark-oriented in general.

 

I think that our subculture gets damaged by the "cultural inflation" and the reason for this is it's closeness - it was beautiful inside but got invaded by not-ready-for-it people. I'm sure the balance will come in the near future

[Veracohr]

I wish there was some sort of psy culture here, so I could have some good parties to go to. From the little I've seen of psy shows in my immediate area, people around here think psy means annoying darkpsy and bad full-on. Then again, I did score some good goa vinyl at the record store; of course, that might just mean that someone got rid of that good music so they could spin or listen to bad music.

 

Maybe down in San Francisco there might be a better psy scene. Or maybe it's just really really hidden around here.

[Veracohr]

So we stick with Psytrance which IMO has a subculture. Parties with specific concepts, trademark symbols like Shiva, Ganesha and more Hindu stuff, Aliens, Fractals, Sci-Fi themes, Spiritual concepts, a PLUR attitude (which today maybe doesn't exist that much but it's still there IMO), etc.

Speaking of that, I've always been a little mystified by the prevalence of alien and sci-fi themes in psytrance. I can understand the spiritual aspects, but (Terence McKenna aside), what do psychedelics have to do with aliens and science fiction?

[travbrad1001]

Speaking of that, I've always been a little mystified by the prevalence of alien and sci-fi themes in psytrance. I can understand the spiritual aspects, but (Terence McKenna aside), what do psychedelics have to do with aliens and science fiction?

Well I don't know about you but I've had some spacey trips that were pretty amazing. Being in a psychedelic state tends to get me thinking/questioning the nature of the universe (why are we here, is there anyone else out there, etc)

 

Plus the whole "theme" of psytrance just seems to go well with space/alien stuff, with all the strange otherworldly sounds, and heavy use of technology (synthesizers, computers, etc). I can't think of a more alien sounding genre of music really.

[Ormion]

Well I don't know about you but I've had some spacey trips that were pretty amazing. Being in a psychedelic state tends to get me thinking/questioning the nature of the universe (why are we here, is there anyone else out there, etc)

 

Plus the whole "theme" of psytrance just seems to go well with space/alien stuff, with all the strange otherworldly sounds, and heavy use of technology (synthesizers, computers, etc). I can't think of a more alien sounding genre of music really.

Yeah my thoughts exactly.

I was always considering psytrance as alien music. Not only it's weird and complicated, but also has this spacey feeling in it.

[Rotwang]

what do psychedelics have to do with aliens and science fiction?

 

Try watching 2001: A Space Odyssey on psychedelics. Then you'll understand.

[NEMO.BOFH]

ehe, alient protein? Abduction? Starship 101? You will find MANY more references to aliens and space in our little culture, if you just look around a little bit

[Melancholyman]

Psytrance is like a box of chocolates, you'll never know what you get. But if you tell a latin girl, "I want to eat you're chocolates", then you'll surely know what you get...

 

btw, it's ok if you give me a warning for this nonsense, I'll understand.

[shaman of sound]

subculture?

yes indeed.

 

trance is way more than music (at least for me), it is a way of life, it is attidue to things, and ofcourse clothing, party culture etc.

 

The trance as a "subculture" was very dominated among trancers is Israel durind the 1990's but today i see less and less people that have the outer aspects (clothing, long hair etc) of the psytrance culture... i feel sorry for that, because it makes me feel that maybe people are ashamed of thier love to trance? or maybe there are not many people that trance is such an integral part of thier life?

 

i realy wish it will like in the old days (not that i new somthing about trance back in the 90's, but i heard and i know it was a great time!)

 

[danet]

subculture?

yes indeed.

 

trance is way more than music (at least for me), it is a way of life, it is attidue to things, and ofcourse clothing, party culture etc.

 

The trance as a "subculture" was very dominated among trancers is Israel durind the 1990's but today i see less and less people that have the outer aspects (clothing, long hair etc) of the psytrance culture... i feel sorry for that, because it makes me feel that maybe people are ashamed of thier love to trance? or maybe there are not many people that trance is such an integral part of thier life?

 

i realy wish it will like in the old days (not that i new somthing about trance back in the 90's, but i heard and i know it was a great time!)

 

It is just because most of the so called rave clothes are really ugly. I rather buy records with music I love than a bunch of buttugly spacetribe or whatever clothes.

[abasio]

I think it might just be.

There are a lot of things associated with it that aren't associated with other scenes or other walks of life & a lot of these things are not quite understood by other people so I'd guess there is a sub culture there as there is with a lot of underground scenes as they have there own styles, loves, hates, customs & taboos

[Darkarbiter]

Yes I think it is, however I also think house music very much has its own fashion and culture too. As does drum n bass (both to a far smaller extent though).

[Yard Hippie]

Definately a subculture sure, but it's not so clear cut as many. I know people who go to Psy raves regularly because they love the atmosphere and it's uniqueness to other vibes generated elsewhere BUT at the same time they don't actually like the music one bit and in fact get impressively annoyed at it when they're outside of the rave environment. And it can't even be said that they all only go for the alternative substances since a few of them opt to only drink alcohol. I think that a lot of it can be seen as a fragmentation of our lives recently with a seperation of the spheres of our influence. When we go to work that's one fragmentation, when we go out that's another and when we chill and perhaps listen to music at home it can easily be entirely different, the spheres very rarely come together. Someone mentioned the rock scene earlier and it's another good example because you get a lot of people into the culture with the clothes and attitude but who are overwhelmed with the people that just incorporate it into their lieves as a very seperate influence. In fact as I remember it the modern day sociological outlook into these things has pretty much abandoned the idea of subculture and sided strongly for something called 'neo-tribes', which is something I studied far too long ago to remember well.

[RTP]

Definately a subculture sure, but it's not so clear cut as many. I know people who go to Psy raves regularly because they love the atmosphere and it's uniqueness to other vibes generated elsewhere BUT at the same time they don't actually like the music one bit and in fact get impressively annoyed at it when they're outside of the rave environment. And it can't even be said that they all only go for the alternative substances since a few of them opt to only drink alcohol. I think that a lot of it can be seen as a fragmentation of our lives recently with a seperation of the spheres of our influence. When we go to work that's one fragmentation, when we go out that's another and when we chill and perhaps listen to music at home it can easily be entirely different, the spheres very rarely come together. Someone mentioned the rock scene earlier and it's another good example because you get a lot of people into the culture with the clothes and attitude but who are overwhelmed with the people that just incorporate it into their lieves as a very seperate influence. In fact as I remember it the modern day sociological outlook into these things has pretty much abandoned the idea of subculture and sided strongly for something called 'neo-tribes', which is something I studied far too long ago to remember well.

I absolutely agree. Yard Hippie's right.

 

We do have a subculture, but ours is more diluted (because of the reason stated above ... and also because of other reasons ... for example I don't dress like a typical goahead myself and I'm also not that much of a shiva/ganesha/hippie fan). And it's not so "hardcore" as others (since tolerance is one of the main pillars in our "codex" if I may say so). But yes, we do have it. I always am reminded of this when I bring new people to it ... they make big eyes and go "wtf" mode

[psytones]

Disco

House

Techno

Goa

Psytrance

..

[boohu]

yeah i'd say yes goa is a space culture.