Lightforce Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Hi everybody Since I discovered Psychedelic Trance, there are approximately 1-2 years I have never ceased to observe what I had observed in the Hardcore scene, Industrial, Rock,...etc : there are so many styles and sub-styles that it becomes a mess to find a way and we sometimes end (or even often) to nonsensical debates about how we will appoint or not appoint, define or not define, this or that music or this or that style. So I decided there are now more than a year to create a doc in PDF form gathering all styles of Psychedelic Trance and their characteristics without making pies of texts to infinity and beyond. http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/2901243725316.jpg It will be a little more than a year (or almost, must take breaks anyway ) to skim all anglophone and francophone forums, searching the most representative artists of every style, and recovering some information and definitions stuffed with spelling mistakes on Wikipedia, clumsy repetitions, discount translations all straight out of the English version of Wikipedia passed under Google Translate, and other calamities, and to correct then to complement them. Obviously, if you find an ugly lack of agreement/spelling well hidden in the bushes, an incomplete definition, or one of your prefered style/artist thatsmasheseverythingbutreallyeverything that is not referenced, feel free to sh*t in my face please let me know, it will be corrected in the shortest possible time if need there. Last update of the PDF: 03.10.2019 at 11:56 p.m. (Paris time) Here is the link for the English version: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4hr2pdwhonek82o/Psytrance (EN).pdf?dl=0 Here is the link for the (original) French version: https://www.dropbox.com/s/q84tbn46xrmmgji/Psytrance.pdf?dl=0 /!\ The Dropbox online reader doesn't support external and internal links in pdf files anymore, so you must download it and open it with a pdf reader if you want the links to work /!\ Here is the original (French) post on the French forum "trancegoa.org" : https://www.trancegoa.org/forum/trance/40857_mise-a-jour-n50-la-trance-psychedelique-dans-son-integralite Thank you for your attention 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agneton Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Good job! Note: Uplifting trance was an invention of Greek artists, not the Germans. It should be noted, however, that there is of course the 'mainstream' Uplifting trance style which was and is still popular and played by guys such as Armin Van Buuren, Aly & Fila, etc... however, that's not the same kind of Uplifting. Uplifting is/was 99% done by Greeks and 1% Bulgarian, Russian, whatever... =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightforce Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Thank you And ok, it is noted, I'll edit this when I have time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 related https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF6FEA169E0E5EED6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightforce Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 related https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF6FEA169E0E5EED6 Yes, these videos have clearly helped me too. However I have taken a slightly different direction such as the grouping of categories such as "Experimental" and "Uncategorized" simply in "Experimental" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightforce Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 All right, Agneton, I've updated the PDF about the definition of Nitzhonot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Eye Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Nice work, must have taken quite some effort to put it all together. Still, I don't think I've ever seen the term "goa ambient" used anywhere else than here on Psynews (no, really). Or here's where I first encountered the term (after 15 years in the scene) along with rather vague and/or wildly inaccurate definitions. But that's just my nitpicking And your psybient recommendations seem to consist mainly of Ultimae artists and/or releases (I could possibly help getting some variety in there if necessary). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proxeeus Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Impressive work! Great job Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightforce Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Still, I don't think I've ever seen the term "goa ambient" used anywhere else than here on Psynews (no, really). Or here's where I first encountered the term (after 15 years in the scene) along with rather vague and/or wildly inaccurate definitions. But that's just my nitpicking For me, "Goa Ambient" correspond to a Psybient strongly influenced by Goa Trance like "Code Eternity" album by Asura or a lot of Altar Records albums that are also often referred as "Deep Trance" more than "Psybient". And your psybient recommendations seem to consist mainly of Ultimae artists and/or releases (I could possibly help getting some variety in there if necessary). Yes, it's true but I think that Ultimae Records is a label gathering artists with such diversity in their creations that it is almost enough on its own. But I would not be against recommendations if you have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scandinasia Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Hello ! As I can't access the download links, is there another way to get the presentation files ? Thanks ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightforce Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Hello ! As I can't access the download links, is there another way to get the presentation files ? Thanks ! Of course, here are other links => English version (OUTDATED) => French version (OUTDATED) Edited July 7, 2017 by Lightforce 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scandinasia Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Thank you for the link ! What a beautiful presentation ! It reminds me of myself when I really started exploring Psytrance, 2 years ago. I knew Psytrance by 1 year and a half, but I was disturbed by its variety of subgenres, and I proceeded, as you did, by doing a list of the genres. That's passion ! This presentation has 3 good points : 1_ You've understood it all. You're into it. You know what is what genre. 2_ The visuals are really beautiful. It's appealing, it's clear, it's a nice reading. 3_ It's synthetic. And the biographies are very well made. Now, there are many little details that could be corrected. First, this presentation is clear, but more from an inside point of view. The descriptions are not clear IMO if the reader doesn't know yet what is Psytrance (though the discographies make it more clear a posteriori). Second point, there are many details that ought to be corrected IMO. I'll explain them to you in a minute. Three, some genres are lacking. Minimal Psytrance. Morning Psytrance. Tech Trance. You should include them. About the details that I want to discuss, there are quite a few of them. What I wrote may give you the impression that your presentation is flawed, but no, it's not. It's just that some concepts are still a bit fresh to you, and that you inspired too much to the Wikipedia article dedicated to Goa and Psytrance (it's not a good article !). Now, let me detail a few points to improve your presentation. Regarding the introduction, it is very well done. However, it seems incomplete to me, as the music is only described through a few technical points. From the point of view of someone that doesn't know what psytrance is, my idea of psytrance such as described by you is that every track between 110 and 200 bpm, with acidic modulations and 4/4 rhythms, etc., is a psytrance track. You should write, for instance, that psytrance is a music aiming to induce altered states of mind through many repetitions that recall ancient tribal music, that most tracks are between 6 and 12 minutes long, and that psytrance is not only a music, but also a culture with a rich legacy. IMO, you should explain, in a few words, why this music exists, and what effects the DJ's want to produce when playing psytrance. Regarding the proto-Goa section, an important reference is lacking : Electronic Body Music. Goa Trance is almost an offshoot of EBM. (EBM>Proto-Goa>Goa Trance). Bands such as Front Line Assembly have contributed a lot to the scene. I think you shall also precise that there were inspirations from Psychedelic Rock (Ozric Tentacles for instance). Also, you say that proto-Goa was aimed to be a psychedelic trend within trance music. I will be more precise by saying that proto-Goa was actually a trend that focused on the psychedelicness of trance music. Because in fact, all trance before 1993 was psychedelic. There are also theories saying that Goa Trance and Trance were born apart from each other, but that doesn't matter. Regarding Goa Trance, you begin by saying that the distinction between Goa and Psy-Trance is mostly a matter of opinion. Well, not that much. 95% of the Goa Trance tracks can be easily identified as such. I really think that this claim is wrong. Your distinction between New and Old-School is pretty interesting, because you describe them as trends rather than periods, and also because of the terms you use. (Personnally, I consider Newschool to be an offshoot of psytrance rather than a mere continuation of Oldschool Goa). Overall, what you say is right, but it's a bit synhetic IMO, and it shouldn't focus only on technical points, but also on what effects it produces compared to other genres (Goa has more spirals, it's warmer, and it's also the purest form of the genre, etc.) Also, an important point IMO is that contrary to other subgenres, Goa is much more elastic. Goa can take all shapes. Some Goa sounds like acid techno, but it can sounds like Trance, like Psyprog, like Forest, like Eurobeat, etc. You can make Goa Trance at 120 bpm, but also at 160+ bmp. You can can make dark Goa, bright Goa, uplifting Goa, etc. Goa as a subgenre is not as limited as the other genres, and I think that's it's important to precise it. Also, you haven't mentionned that Goa was inspired by oriental patterns. Regarding Nitzhonot. A detail : you say that Nitzhonot pushes further the Eastern aspect of Goa, but in the Goa section you haven't precised that Goa had Eastern patterns. Also, you're a bit quick when dealing with Uplifting Trance. You should rather put it in these words : In the same way that Goa Trance beget Nitzhonot, Nitzhnoto beget Uplifting Trance, who focuses so much on euhphoria that it loses its psychedelicness. On a more personnal view, I wonder if this distinction between Goa Trance and Nitzhonot is still relevant. From an historic point of view it's acurate. But technically speaking, most of Nitzhonot is part of Goa trance, in the same way that Dark Goa is part of Goa Trance. Overall, you get the point, but the words sound clumsy. You could have made shorter sentences by saying that Nitzhnot is basically like Goa Trance insisting on euphoria, using a lot of Middle-Eastern patterns, and having a faster beat. Regarding Psytrance, I love the way you described it. Because Psytrance is both a family of subgenres distinct from Goa Trance, and a subgenre in itself, that we call « psyché » in France, but that I personnaly call « post-Goa-Trance ». Now, the description is once again a bit too synthetic. You could have said that Psytrance is less melodic and more tech-ish in reaction with the baroque esthetic of Goa Trance, and that it appeared in 1998 with a milestone album : X-Dream – Radio (that you should mention IMO). Regarding Full-On, my main criticism is that the section is missing in the French pdf. I call that to your attention : the diapo is here, but there's no text. Globally, Full-On is Psytrance that broadcasts a perpetual blasting energy, and that insists on acoustic waves overwhelming the dancer/listener (in that matter, it's the most extravert genre of psytrance). Regarding Darkspy. You say that songs are rare in Darkpsy. Well, songs are rare in Psytrance in general. Also, I think that your words are not the best chosen to describe the genre. Maybe that you should say that Darkspy is meant to be more agressive, and that it opened a new perspective withing the scene, as it opened the way to a more chaotic approach of psytrance (more horrific). Regarding Forest. Nothing to say, very good. Same goes for Twilight. But you shall just write when this latter appeared. Regarding Hi-Tech. I think that there is a problem of organization between your sections. Indeed, you shouldn't evoke Psycore in the Darkpsy section, in order to describe it here. Because Hi-Tech and Psycore are twin genres. Hi-Tech is born out of Psycore, but contrary to Psycore, it has lost its chaotic dimension. By the way, Hi-Tech is also called « Full Power Psytrance ». Regarding Psyprog, you should precise that it's the most repetitive and trancey genre of Psytrance. Actually, your description of it looks inacurate to me. Psyprog is not about « more complex sounds » but about a more precise work over textures and layers. Also, it's too bad that you do not state that there are various different trends within Psyprog. There are two main trends : a minimalistic one, inherited from Sweden (Scandosaund, Vibrasphere, etc. and that projects such as Protonica and Mindwave are closer), and a full-on oriented one (Tesseract). Regarding Zenonesque. You miss a very big point by not saying that it's a form of minimal psytrance. Minimal. Say it. It's important. Regarding Natural Trance. The only criticism I'll made is about the title. Natural Trance as a term is far less used than Tribal Trance or Ethnic Trance. The Wikipedia article says Natural, but I've never heard anyone use it. It's Tribal. Regarding Suomi. Precise that it's born from Goa Trance specifically (some Suomi tracks are still very close to Goa). Regarding Psybient. Goa Ambient stands for Goa downtempo (example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUVZFWTHl64 ). It's like Goa Trance, without the Trance rhythm. Psybient is an umbrella genre (un fourre-tout) where one can put many many things. You say that Psybient is « 2 or 3 times slower than Psytrance ». Not exactly. It's everything that goes from 110-115 bpm to 0 bpm (beatless psybient exists). There are various trends : _original psybient, that sounds experimental (Shpongle, Zero Cult) _the dreamy stuff (Astropilot, Suduaya, E-Mantra, Carbon Based Lifeforms) _Psydub _Goa and Psy Downtempo _Chillgressive (Alwoods, Aes Dana, Lemonchill, etc.) _Swamp _Bass music When you say Code Eternity is Goa downtempo, well, not exactly. It's something different. (By the way, to my ears, some tracks are pure Goa Trance, ambient style). There are many releases with ambient tones and progressive aspects. That's Chillgressive. Check Alwoods for instance. Know that there was a genre once called Ambient Trance. Well, it's between that and Chill-Out. Also, there is Psychill, but this word is not clear. You can use it as a synonymous for Psybient. OVERALL, a very good presentation, that ought to be improved. Anyway, thanks for sharing it. Because I know that the next time I want to explain Psytrance to someone, I will use it. Thank you EDIT : added Swamp and Bass music Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Eye Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 As the downtempo (as I like to call it) genre can be broken down into practically as many subgenres as psytrance, this would really need its own presentation instead of being an offshoot or subgenre of psytrance original psybient, that sounds experimental (Shpongle, Zero Cult) Zero Cult "original psybient"? No way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scandinasia Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 @Paul Eye. >< Right. I don't know why I wrote this It's more related to the dreamy stuff I think. Anyway, Psybient is just so big. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 You should say that Darkspy is meant to be horrific and oppressive No he shouldn't. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightforce Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Thank you for the link ! What a beautiful presentation ! It reminds me of myself when I really started exploring Psytrance, 2 years ago. I knew Psytrance by 1 year and a half, but I was disturbed by its variety of subgenres, and I proceeded, as you did, by doing a list of the genres. That's passion ! This presentation has 3 good points : 1_ You've understood it all. You're into it. You know what is what genre. 2_ The visuals are really beautiful. It's appealing, it's clear, it's a nice reading. 3_ It's synthetic. And the biographies are very well made. Now, there are many little details that could be corrected. First, this presentation is clear, but more from an inside point of view. The descriptions are not clear IMO if the reader doesn't know yet what is Psytrance (though the discographies make it more clear a posteriori). Second point, there are many details that ought to be corrected IMO. I'll explain them to you in a minute. Three, some genres are lacking. Minimal Psytrance. Morning Psytrance. Tech Trance. You should include them. About the details that I want to discuss, there are quite a few of them. What I wrote may give you the impression that your presentation is flawed, but no, it's not. It's just that some concepts are still a bit fresh to you, and that you inspired too much to the Wikipedia article dedicated to Goa and Psytrance (it's not a good article !). Now, let me detail a few points to improve your presentation. Regarding the introduction, it is very well done. However, it seems incomplete to me, as the music is only described through a few technical points. From the point of view of someone that doesn't know what psytrance is, my idea of psytrance such as described by you is that every track between 110 and 200 bpm, with acidic modulations and 4/4 rhythms, etc., is a psytrance track. You should write, for instance, that psytrance is a music aiming to induce altered states of mind through many repetitions that recall ancient tribal music, that most tracks are between 6 and 12 minutes long, and that psytrance is not only a music, but also a culture with a rich legacy. IMO, you should explain, in a few words, why this music exists, and what effects the DJ's want to produce when playing psytrance. Regarding the proto-Goa section, an important reference is lacking : Electronic Body Music. Goa Trance is almost an offshoot of EBM. (EBM>Proto-Goa>Goa Trance). Bands such as Front Line Assembly have contributed a lot to the scene. I think you shall also precise that there were inspirations from Psychedelic Rock (Ozric Tentacles for instance). Also, you say that proto-Goa was aimed to be a psychedelic trend within trance music. I will be more precise by saying that proto-Goa was actually a trend that focused on the psychedelicness of trance music. Because in fact, all trance before 1993 was psychedelic. There are also theories saying that Goa Trance and Trance were born apart from each other, but that doesn't matter. Regarding Goa Trance, you begin by saying that the distinction between Goa and Psy-Trance is mostly a matter of opinion. Well, not that much. 95% of the Goa Trance tracks can be easily identified as such. I really think that this claim is wrong. Your distinction between New and Old-School is pretty interesting, because you describe them as trends rather than periods, and also because of the terms you use. (Personnally, I consider Newschool to be an offshoot of psytrance rather than a mere continuation of Oldschool Goa). Overall, what you say is right, but it's a bit synhetic IMO, and it shouldn't focus only on technical points, but also on what effects it produces compared to other genres (Goa has more spirals, it's warmer, and it's also the purest form of the genre, etc.) Also, an important point IMO is that contrary to other subgenres, Goa is much more elastic. Goa can take all shapes. Some Goa sounds like acid techno, but it can sounds like Trance, like Psyprog, like Forest, like Eurobeat, etc. You can make Goa Trance at 120 bpm, but also at 160+ bmp. You can can make dark Goa, bright Goa, uplifting Goa, etc. Goa as a subgenre is not as limited as the other genres, and I think that's it's important to precise it. Also, you haven't mentionned that Goa was inspired by oriental patterns. Regarding Nitzhonot. A detail : you say that Nitzhonot pushes further the Eastern aspect of Goa, but in the Goa section you haven't precised that Goa had Eastern patterns. Also, you're a bit quick when dealing with Uplifting Trance. You should rather put it in these words : In the same way that Goa Trance beget Nitzhonot, Nitzhnoto beget Uplifting Trance, who focuses so much on euhphoria that it loses its psychedelicness. On a more personnal view, I wonder if this distinction between Goa Trance and Nitzhonot is still relevant. From an historic point of view it's acurate. But technically speaking, most of Nitzhonot is part of Goa trance, in the same way that Dark Goa is part of Goa Trance. Overall, you get the point, but the words sound clumsy. You could have made shorter sentences by saying that Nitzhnot is basically like Goa Trance insisting on euphoria, using a lot of Middle-Eastern patterns, and having a faster beat. Regarding Psytrance, I love the way you described it. Because Psytrance is both a family of subgenres distinct from Goa Trance, and a subgenre in itself, that we call « psyché » in France, but that I personnaly call « post-Goa-Trance ». Now, the description is once again a bit too synthetic. You could have said that Psytrance is less melodic and more tech-ish in reaction with the baroque esthetic of Goa Trance, and that it appeared in 1998 with a milestone album : X-Dream – Radio (that you should mention IMO). Regarding Full-On, my main criticism is that the section is missing in the French pdf. I call that to your attention : the diapo is here, but there's no text. Globally, Full-On is Psytrance that broadcasts a perpetual blasting energy, and that insists on acoustic waves overwhelming the dancer/listener (in that matter, it's the most extravert genre of psytrance). Regarding Darkspy. You say that songs are rare in Darkpsy. Well, songs are rare in Psytrance in general. Also, I think that your words are not the best chosen to describe the genre. You should say that Darkspy is meant to be horrific and oppressive, and that it opened a new perspective withing the scene, as it opened the way to a more chaotic approach of psytrance. Regarding Forest. Nothing to say, very good. Same goes for Twilight. But you shall just write when this latter appeared. Regarding Hi-Tech. I think that there is a problem of organization between your sections. Indeed, you shouldn't evoke Psycore in the Darkpsy section, in order to describe it here. Because Hi-Tech and Psycore are twin genres. Hi-Tech is born out of Psycore, but contrary to Psycore, it has lost its chaotic dimension. By the way, Hi-Tech is also called « Full Power Psytrance ». Regarding Psyprog, you should precise that it's the most repetitive and trancey genre of Psytrance. Actually, your description of it looks inacurate to me. Psyprog is not about « more complex sounds » but about a more precise work over textures and layers. Also, it's too bad that you do not state that there are various different trends within Psyprog. There are two main trends : a minimalistic one, inherited from Sweden (Scandosaund, Vibrasphere, etc. and that projects such as Protonica and Mindwave are closer), and a full-on oriented one (Tesseract). Regarding Zenonesque. You miss a very big point by not saying that it's a form of minimal psytrance. Minimal. Say it. It's important. Regarding Natural Trance. The only criticism I'll made is about the title. Natural Trance as a term is far less used than Tribal Trance or Ethnic Trance. The Wikipedia article says Natural, but I've never heard anyone use it. It's Tribal. Regarding Suomi. Precise that it's born from Goa Trance specifically (some Suomi tracks are still very close to Goa). Regarding Psybient. Goa Ambient stands for Goa downtempo (example : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUVZFWTHl64 ). It's like Goa Trance, without the Trance rhythm. Psybient is an umbrella genre (un fourre-tout) where one can put many many things. You say that Psybient is « 2 or 3 times slower than Psytrance ». Not exactly. It's everything that goes from 110-115 bpm to 0 bpm (beatless psybient exists). There are various trends : _original psybient, that sounds experimental (Shpongle, Zero Cult) _the dreamy stuff (Astropilot, Suduaya, E-Mantra, Carbon Based Lifeforms) _Psydub _Goa and Psy Downtempo _Chillgressive (Alwoods, Aes Dana, Lemonchill, etc.) _Swamp _Bass music When you say Code Eternity is Goa downtempo, well, not exactly. It's something different. (By the way, to my ears, some tracks are pure Goa Trance, ambient style). There are many releases with ambient tones and progressive aspects. That's Chillgressive. Check Alwoods for instance. Know that there was a genre once called Ambient Trance. Well, it's between that and Chill-Out. Also, there is Psychill, but this word is not clear. You can use it as a synonymous for Psybient. OVERALL, a very good presentation, that ought to be improved. Anyway, thanks for sharing it. Because I know that the next time I want to explain Psytrance to someone, I will use it. Thank you EDIT : added Swamp and Bass music What the f... Ok, first of all, thank you for the extra effort that you put to give me a very structured and detailed response. I want to tell you that it is very appreciable. Really Oh, and by the way, you can re-download pdf because I was perceived that the image of the page of the definition of Full-On covered the text in the French version. I corrected this problem. Okay, so now, things turn serious: Some styles that you spoke as “morning” and “minimal” are not styles but just a kind of "colors" of Psychedelic Trance. Let me explain: the morning, for example, can be an additional term used to describe styles of Psychedelic Trance often with a perky melody, suitable for morning, hence its name. This color is applicable to many styles: in this case Psytrance, Full-On, Goa Trance, Suomisaundi,...etc. Regarding “minimal”, it’s the same: an artist can have a strong minimal tendency in his compositions. In this, these two "colors" do not deserve, in my view, to appear as a style. That would only complicate excessively. For Tech Trance: it's just a style, like Downtempo, which can not be related to Psychedelic Trance since all artists in this style does not strive to include any forms of psychedelia that would be more or less related to Psychedelic Trance. Then you told me about EBM, oriental folk music origins, synergy between artists and their music,...etc. In short, the entire background that accompanies the Psychedelic Trance. You must know that this pdf has not been realized in order to serve as a comprehensive encyclopedia of everything that revolves around the Psychedelic Trance. He only intended to help and guide people, and classify accurately, but reasonably, the different styles that compose it. I know it is synthetic but that is the goal. Avoid being scattered in every corner and in passing avoid losing the people who read this pdf and say to themselves "I wonder if I'm throwing myself in there, it seems overly complicated to me ...". Regarding Goa and Nitzhonot : I will correct many details in their definition. Regarding Psycore: it is born from Dark Trance (looks like slogan of a new Lord of the Rings ), not from Hi-Tech, and given its aesthetic, it seems more logical to me to leave it in the page dedicated to Dark Trance. Regarding all others : You should know one thing, the more you try to frame a style, the more you risk to leave behind many artists that will not correspond to definitions increasingly precise and selective. Do not forget that music is art. And art is not rational, he needs freedom to express itself. A definition is based on objective criteria where art is subjective. Here is the trick. I think the best is not to excessively classify. So I do not intend to include many sub-sub-styles that you mentioned as “bass music”, “swamp”, etc... in the sense that they are already numerous component of a style which include them and which allows better understanding of them (in this case, "Psybient"). Too many complications for not much in the end. But many of your recommendations were helpful to me. I will make some changes. I will update the documents as soon as it will be ready Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scandinasia Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 @Rotwang I edited, and replaced these words by "agressive". Let me be clear, these words aren't meant to be negative. Darkpsy explores the darkest feelings of human psyche. The samples resonates with distorted hallucinations, glimpses of nightmares, and the background is a tumultuous symphnony of power. It is dark. It sounds dark, as in a demonic way. It's the esthetic of it. These words were blunt. They may not be the best, but I maintain them. On the other side, Darkpsy also takes you to a very cybernetic universe filled with Sci-Fi effects. What do you think ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scandinasia Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 @ Lightforce Hey ! As for EBM, since you mentionned the many genres that beget Goa Trance, I found it was more coherent to mention in one word the genre that contributed the most to the genre. Regarding minimal. Well. You're right. You just updated an old misconception of mine, as I just re-checked my playlists, and indeed, Minimal sounds more like a variation of Progressive. I think that Minimal was refered as such during the early 2000's, and today in Brazil, they play many tracks that are built mainly over a mere offbeat, but that's related somehow to general prog. Tech Trance is rare as well. Morning too. It had the potential to become a genre per se, just as Twilight, but it never did. Regarding Psycore: it is born from Dark Trance Yes, of course, and I implied it. But as Hi-Tech is born from Psycore and that they share more common points than differences, it seems to be that it's more appropriate to gather them under the same section (Psycore + Hi-Tech). I know it is synthetic but that is the goal. Avoid being scattered in every corner and in passing avoid losing the people who read this pdf and say to themselves "I wonder if I'm throwing myself in there, it seems overly complicated to me ...". You're right. But what I state is that, in a few words, you can enlight your definition and convey a more precise idea. Your discographies are really perfect, so why not explicitating a bit more what all the albums of a section have in common ? That's my point You should know one thing, the more you try to frame a style, the more you risk to leave behind many artists that will not correspond to definitions increasingly precise and selective. Do not forget that music is art. And art is not rational, he needs freedom to express itself. A definition is based on objective criteria where art is subjective. Here is the trick. I think the best is not to excessively classify. Sure. But I didn't imply that. Don't get me wrong, it's not about drawing thick lines around the genres. Synthetic is the good way, but on the other way, if you detail what a genre is, one have to make things clear, so that no confusion arise when it comes to other genres. One has to let room to a broader definition or a future evolution, but using more words to restitute a clear image is not incompatible with it. So I do not intend to include many sub-sub-styles that you mentioned as “bass music”, “swamp”, etc... in the sense that they are already numerous component of a style which include them and which allows better understanding of them (in this case, "Psybient"). Too many complications for not much in the end. Psybient is like Psytrance. It's a cluster of genres. Now, I went into details, but my purpose was not to make it appear in the presentation. My point was that perhaps it was good to show psybient as an umbrella for many subgenres. (Also, don't forget to say that Psybient is not Trance). By the way, why do say "le" psybient instead of "la" psybient. Isn't it a feminine ? What do they say on trancegoa (I rarely visited) ? On the other hand, I always said "le" nitzhonot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkraver Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 On the other side, Darkpsy also takes you to a very cybernetic universe filled with Sci-Fi effects. What do you think ? Discussions regarding Darkpsy reminds me of this: https://www.psynews.org/forums/topic/59812-give-me-your-darkest-darkpsy/page-1 Hmm, it's time to add recent darkpsy to that thread I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Eye Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Well, here's something to spice up the selection of psybient (as much as I actually dislike that particular word, not the genre, obviously): Ajja & Cosmosis - The Alien Jams Akshan - The Rise Of Atlantis Akshan - The Tree Of Life Androcell - Entheomythic Argaman - My Little Forest Ascoil Sun - Emergence Benji Vaughan - Even Tundra VA - Conundrum Concoction <-- highly recommended Cygna - Opus ένα Distant System - Spiral Empire Easily Embarrassed - Idyllic Life Easily Embarrassed - Tales Of The Coin Spinner VA - Eclipse <-- an early classic VA - Ethneomystica Vol. 3 <-- IMO the best of the 3 so far Globular - A Self-Fulfilling Prophecy Globular - Magnitudes Of Order Green Nuns On Ice - The Pan Electric Variations Hallucinogen - In Dub <-- an absolute classic Harax - Inly Hibernation - Second Nature Hibernation - Some Things Never Change Hinkstep - My Forest Queen Kalpataru Tree - Preverberations From The Infinite Future Kalpataru Tree - Scattered Fragments Of The Eternal Dream KiloWatts - Ground State Kliment - The Perpetual Ritual Koan - The Fables Of Belovodye Krusseldorf - Fractal World Krusseldorf - Bohemian Groove Kuba - Inside Out Kurbeats - Folktronica <-- absolutely fantastic VA - Made Of Dawn Chapter One Master Margherita - Hippies With Gadgets Mauxuam - Viceversa Ott - Mir Ott - Skylon Paul Harbor - Insert Yourself Perfect Blind - Three Spires Phone Booth Robbers - Falling Into One Phutureprimitive - Sub Conscious <-- a definite classic Ra - Unearthly Radioactive Sandwich - A World Of Delights Radioactive Sandwich - Mirage Reasonandu - Imminent Satori Shulman - In Search Of A Meaningful Moment <-- another classic Slackbaba - And The Beat Goes Om Tengri - Icaros The Peaking Goddess Collective - Organika Tor.Ma - Inside Universe Tripswitch - Circuit Breaker Uth - Distant Instincts Vataff Project - Kalitz <-- one of the most unique downtempo albums out there Vataff Project - Maeoma <-- another completely unique release Yggdrasil - Prose Edda Zen Baboon - Suber Um...sorry if I got a bit carried away I'll probably bookmark this for my own reference for some use. edit: some more albums added Edited May 5, 2015 by Paul Eye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starkraver Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Oh man! Great list Paul_Eye! Folktronica - sure is a classic. Right from the moment that old grandma (the way I visualise it) breaks the twig and starts singing yoyo .. Yoya.. To the end. Hope you got the disc. I missed the preorder It's been on my playlist since the first time I put it You don't like the new koan album ? (The way of one) I see you've put it for sale , my eyes are on it since a long time Not now thou, spent 130 euros on some cd's but sadly the shipment went missing. Sorry for going off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 @Rotwang I edited, and replaced these words by "agressive". Let me be clear, these words aren't meant to be negative. Darkpsy explores the darkest feelings of human psyche. The samples resonates with distorted hallucinations, glimpses of nightmares, and the background is a tumultuous symphnony of power. It is dark. It sounds dark, as in a demonic way. It's the esthetic of it. These words were blunt. They may not be the best, but I maintain them. On the other side, Darkpsy also takes you to a very cybernetic universe filled with Sci-Fi effects. What do you think ? Yes, I'm OK with that. Sorry if my earlier reply was curt; it's just that the whole darkpsy/horror/Satanism association is a bit of a hot button for me, what with the number of times I've seen people tar the whole genre with a brush that has nothing to do with the majority of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Eye Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Folktronica - sure is a classic. Right from the moment that old grandma (the way I visualise it) breaks the twig and starts singing yoyo .. Yoya.. To the end. Hope you got the disc. Yep, got the disc You don't like the new koan album ? (The way of one) Nope, not at all actually. Too messy and disoriented. That's why it's for sale /offtopic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmapani Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Some styles that you spoke as “morning” and “minimal” are not styles but just a kind of "colors" of Psychedelic Trance. Let me explain: the morning, for example, can be an additional term used to describe styles of Psychedelic Trance often with a perky melody, suitable for morning, hence its name. This color is applicable to many styles: in this case Psytrance, Full-On, Goa Trance, Suomisaundi,...etc. Regarding “minimal”, it’s the same: an artist can have a strong minimal tendency in his compositions. In this, these two "colors" do not deserve, in my view, to appear as a style. That would only complicate excessively. For Tech Trance: it's just a style, like Downtempo, which can not be related to Psychedelic Trance since all artists in this style does not strive to include any forms of psychedelia that would be more or less related to Psychedelic Trance. yes and no. morning is an adjective that can apply to multiple styles. morning goa, morning fullon, ... (mostly these two ). but it was often considered a serparate style by some around 2004 or so (at a time when no one thought of morning goa anyway ). it was played towards dawn/sunrise obviously and these tracks sometimes give me a really hard time to categorise now. traditionally i considered them fullon, they were released with other fullon by artists usually making fullon (so i mostly go with that), but compared to modern progressive (which has moved a lot towards fullon) they sound more like progressive... examples would be talamasca - cancer or cosma - minimal vertical. minimal psytrance was definitely a style back then, but only popular for a short peroid of time. i wasn't around in the psy scene back in 2001, so i can only guess that it was always considered to be a subgenre of progressive. shiva chandra and necton represent. and the panzar productionz label try to give it a revival. tech trance is a bad name i think. in "tech trance" psy it's definitely discinct from the ("real") tech trance, which is why i rather call in psytek. it's often more like techno with a rolling bassline and a psychedelic edge than any kind of trance. what minimal psy is to progressive, psytek is to psytrance. planet ben - silver or x-dream - irritant would be the albums that come to my mind. psytek musn't be confused with psy-techno - a term that turned up in the last few years and the music it's applied to sounds like sped up and cheaply produced minimal techno with a psy squelch every now and then. about fullon: you mention that fullon is characterised by being influenced by electro house among other things. this cannot be (well, it's happening right now, but it's debatable if such music is even to be called fullon ) because fullon has been around for much much longer than electro house. i also wouldn't call fullon the undoubtedly most popular style simply because it's not. it has been the most popular from its inception until 2011 or 2012 or so, but progressive and darkpsy (subgenres) have taken its place by now. many parties focus only on one of the two and the prime time slots in festival lineups are firmly in the hands of darkpsy. about darkpsy: it's a bit confusing to read, but i guess you are trying to say that hitech mainly differs from psycore? hitech is just as fast, but doesn't have the abrasive, "evil" sound to it. it's more like sped-up fullon than sped-up darkpsy (=psycore). also, i have absolutely no idea what the third paragraph is supposed to mean. one last thing: why don't you just call it darkpsy? it's commonly referred to as dark psytrance, darkpsy or simply dark. the term "dark trance" is something i only know from ishkur's guide. other than that, really nice work! i especially love how well you selected the music to go along with the styles. the only thing that i'd add would be some human blue album to progressive. he was one of the pioneers and one of the best. edit: sorry i missed the part about hitech (though it would be included with darkpsy just like psycore ), so disregard my explanation above. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightforce Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 Well, here's something to spice up the selection of psybient (as much as I actually dislike that particular word, not the genre, obviously): Ajja & Cosmosis - The Alien Jams Akshan - The Rise Of Atlantis Akshan - The Tree Of Life Androcell - Entheomythic Argaman - My Little Forest Ascoil Sun - Emergence Benji Vaughan - Even Tundra VA - Conundrum Concoction <-- highly recommended Cygna - Opus ένα Distant System - Spiral Empire Easily Embarrassed - Idyllic Life Easily Embarrassed - Tales Of The Coin Spinner VA - Eclipse <-- an early classic VA - Ethneomystica Vol. 3 <-- IMO the best of the 3 so far Globular - A Self-Fulfilling Prophecy Globular - Magnitudes Of Order Green Nuns On Ice - The Pan Electric Variations Hallucinogen - In Dub <-- an absolute classic Harax - Inly Hibernation - Second Nature Hibernation - Some Things Never Change Hinkstep - My Forest Queen Kalpataru Tree - Preverberations From The Infinite Future Kalpataru Tree - Scattered Fragments Of The Eternal Dream KiloWatts - Ground State Kliment - The Perpetual Ritual Koan - The Fables Of Belovodye Krusseldorf - Fractal World Krusseldorf - Bohemian Groove Kuba - Inside Out Kurbeats - Folktronica <-- absolutely fantastic VA - Made Of Dawn Chapter One Master Margherita - Hippies With Gadgets Mauxuam - Viceversa Ott - Mir Ott - Skylon Paul Harbor - Insert Yourself Perfect Blind - Three Spires Phone Booth Robbers - Falling Into One Phutureprimitive - Sub Conscious <-- a definite classic Ra - Unearthly Radioactive Sandwich - A World Of Delights Radioactive Sandwich - Mirage Reasonandu - Imminent Satori Shulman - In Search Of A Meaningful Moment <-- another classic Slackbaba - And The Beat Goes Om Tengri - Icaros The Peaking Goddess Collective - Organika Tor.Ma - Inside Universe Tripswitch - Circuit Breaker Uth - Distant Instincts Vataff Project - Kalitz <-- one of the most unique downtempo albums out there Vataff Project - Maeoma <-- another completely unique release Yggdrasil - Prose Edda Zen Baboon - Suber Um...sorry if I got a bit carried away I'll probably bookmark this for my own reference for some use. edit: some more albums added Thank you for your help but the vast majority of albums that you have posted do not include Ambient in composition but only Downtempo mixed with other genres. The Psybient is primarly Ambient. Certainly mixed with other genres, but it must first have an Ambient basis for it to be considered Psybient. And I can't add Downtempo in styles because it is a separate genre that is not only dedicated to psychedelia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.