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Do you guys even believe in evolution?


Tetrasect
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Ok the word "believe" is misplaced because we (should) know that evolution is reality...

Question is... do you actually acknowledge the evolution of psychedelic trance or are you stuck in some kind of plateau where you cannot distinguish between an enhancement and the low rez original?

What's the story? Do you guys not have psychedelics available or are you just too lazy to take them?

This forum used to be discussing and reviewing the CUTTING EDGE of music, now it's a bunch of people chasing artifacts of the 90's.

WAKE UP GUYS

TAKE SOME LSD AND GO TO A PARTY!!!!!!!

How can you not tell the differencen between this:

 

And this:     ???

 

 

Our music is still pushing the cutting edge to this day, please dump the memorial vibes and wake up to a glorious reality that's happening RIGHT NOW.

 

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Its all about taste of course. Clearly there is a (large) crows that have problems connecting with a lot of modern psy trance. I think the reason is pretty simple: a lot of it is very generic, the machine gun bassline or the gallop horse bassline are used for 15 years in EVERY track. Also in the track you just posted. 
A lot of the old music was very unique and different from eachother, something that is missing in a lot of modern psychedelic trance. I say: most, as there great music left of course, but its rare and its even rarer to hear it on a festival... 

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There was a time when it was real hard to create a mix/journey blending current and classic tracks.

Now, it's super fucking easy. There's so much great music out there (and so so much rubbish).

There are some classic tracks that just would never get released these days and it's a bummer as some of those refreshing/unique tracks remain untouched in excellence.

 

I just woke up and haven't finished my coffee, apologies if my word-vomit made no sense.

Can't wait to be on the beach of Portugal in one-month and dancing to some great music...

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Psytrance needs some new colorful and controversial personalities. Some fresh drama, maybe gangster rap could be fused into Psytrance somehow? Imagine Tekashi 6ix9ine on stage with Infected Mushroom. Lol :o

I don’t know, change/evolution is inevitable. And so is digging around in the past as well, sometimes the digging around might result in some new interesting re-imaginative concepts. Let’s just hope Gen-Z suprises us, the torch is their hands now. :ph34r:

There sure is a lot of re-discovering/re-imagining of the past in other genres at the moment. And obviously in other artforms as well. I personally find unexpected fusions of styles and concepts captivating. Like for example in vintage inspired cartoon art, where it might be interpreted through a psychedelic lens. 

And as for Psytrance having hypothetically reached a plateau, maybe. It can only be properly ascertained in retrospect a couple of decades from now. I do however find that the mind-set one is in, very strongly affects ones outlook on things in general and certainly with regards to music. If one is in the right mood, there’s always something new and exciting to be discovered.

I would be very interested if the people in this thread could follow the OP, and also post something new you find to be unique/cutting edge. I’m a bit out of the loop myself at the moment, mainly listening to other genres. I went to a Psytrance event with some mixed floors, Techno and Psytrance. I can’t really say I felt particularly connected to either styles. It was more like background music. :) 

Sometimes when I dig around for new Psytrance stuff I might hear something and think this sounds pretty cool, but I seldom find myself re-listening to said tracks. Modern Darkpsy is a good example, if I go to a forest party I will enjoy the atmosphere of the music, but it’s often very forgettable music once I listen to it at home, and it feels out of its intended context. On the other hand, many of the classics of the Psytrance/Goa genres have a timeless appeal to me when it comes to storytelling. But hey, the people growing up now and discovering the Psytrance now will probably consider these current tracks their classics, so it’s all very depending of different perspectives and age. (The time factor).

The chasing of numbers/higher sound quality that a lot of the modern Psytrance strives for, might have made the storytelling aspect a lesser priority.

*And btw to OP, since you mentioned this forums content somehow beeing centered around classics/the past:

  
I share you’re appreciation for the architects of this genre. Without them there would be none of what’s produced these days.

;) 

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"There are two kinds of fool in this world: one says 'this is old and therefore good', the other says 'this is new and therefore better'" John Brunner 

I find it hard to disagree with Anoebis' and Magus Knight's comments above which question the idea that the "cutting edge" is necessarily evolution and progress. I agree that many find uniform galloping horse rhythm and telephone line storytelling to be devolution. For others, the "low rez" sounds of analogue synthesisers are archaic and unevolved. 

Darwin's concept of evolution (or the more contemporary synthesis notion of evolution) does not contradict or discount entropy, the reality of disorder and decay. There are many twists, turns, dead-ends, accidents in evolution. Devolution is always a possibility

PS - I want to personally congratulate all the artists old and new, quite a few of them on the Suntrip label, who make other basslines than the galloping horse. :P

PPS - I cannot resist making fun of contemporary "enhancement": cheap, shiny, plasticky tupperware is indeed everywhere in evidence today. :lol:

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While I acknowledge there has been change to psytrance, I don't agree with it being "evolution". To me evolution means becoming "more superior" to previous versions. 

 

More like ..involution :ph34r:

A lot of newer composition is weird. As if to say "psytrance is only about the kick". It's not. If you have a hardass kick/bassline and barely any melody then that's not psy. God damn it, it's in the word - PSYCHEDELIC. Make me trip, not feel like I have a concussion.

Obviously things change, but not always for the better. If they called themselves whatever else and not psytrance, I wouldn't care in the least. But because they DO call themselves psytrance, I am extremely hurt in the anus. :mad:

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9 hours ago, psychedelic chipmunk said:

While I acknowledge there has been change to psytrance, I don't agree with it being "evolution". To me evolution means becoming "more superior" to previous versions. 

 

More like ..involution :ph34r:

A lot of newer composition is weird. As if to say "psytrance is only about the kick". It's not. If you have a hardass kick/bassline and barely any melody then that's not psy. God damn it, it's in the word - PSYCHEDELIC. Make me trip, not feel like I have a concussion.

Obviously things change, but not always for the better. If they called themselves whatever else and not psytrance, I wouldn't care in the least. But because they DO call themselves psytrance, I am extremely hurt in the anus. :mad:

I certainly believe and share the notion that there can be a retrograde in developments of different artforms. I’m not claiming that’s the case with todays Psytrance though. Although I’m not entirely in agreement with all of it and the general trayectory it is currently taking. I’m still hopeful to find and explore new fantastic creative music. The really good stuff is rare, but that’s what makes it worth the hunt IMO. The true gems.

One only has take couple of examples from history and art to reach some satisfying conclusions regarding different pinnacles in aesthetic achievements. We modern humans still look in awe at some of the surviving archeological artifacts. And every new generation continues to be mesmerized by the rich litterature and music of times gone by.

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Evolution can also go backwards. 

The waves was strong around the khetzal and filteria times, and lets not forget the global sect times, artifact303, cosmic dimension, and more. 

But then there's deevolution. 

Things got worse and not better.

Artifact303 - feelings in 2008 was the peak,then Mindsphere (his first album of his trilogy) and filteria daze was the highpoint. For global sect this was space of power. 

After that, it started going down. Sound quality even affected artifact303 on his released on GS, and, even how hard it is to say, even filteria at suntrip with his latest album. 

Only matter of time til you also start hearing whatever I'm hearing, and the sound quality that has dissipated over time. 

 

It's a shame and I feel I'm done with neo goa, since every release these days sounds plastic fantastic software tonality. 

I don't care. I'm just sad. There's goa and psytrance from the late 90s and early 00s that actually sounds better sound quality wise than some of the latest releases, sadly even artifact303 and filteria has been affected. I thought all you could go were up, from Daze and Back to space. But, it seems you could go down from there.. And that will always break my heart don't care what you say. So I'm done I'm not waiting on anything anymore and I don't care about evolution, cause its been nothing but deevolution since daze and back to space. 

Goa died with these albums. Your plastic high-passed productions you currently make doesn't even count, sounds like shit. 

 

I'd forever take hallucinogen, astral, filteria up until daze, artifact303 up until its suntrip release, and every other old school artist like x dream and mwnn, over any of the plastic shit being released these days. 

 

Just listen to filteria filternaut and if you can't hear the software tone then you're completely hopeless and couldn't tell a turd from a flower. 

 

Evolution? Hell no. It stopped at early to mid 2010s

Artifact303 - feelings still is the king of neo goa, sharing spot with khetzals first album and filteria - daze, artifact303 - back to space 

After that, no evolution 

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3 hours ago, astralprojection said:

Just listen to filteria filternaut and if you can't hear the software tone then you're completely hopeless and couldn't tell a turd from a flower. 

 

 

Well, since you keep posting this on every youtube video about the sound (and more than once), I think I need to answer you (for the second time)...

You seem to have taken it very personal for some reason? Either way:
1. There are 2 sounds (YES 2!) that are "software-based" in the entire Filternaut track. One is the lower fundaments (bas) of the kick and one lead sound (out of 7-8 lead layers). The kick is blended together with a Linndrum kick (yes a real Linndrum from 80's) to give the kick another character than the usual kick you heard in 1000000 releases (and also because I love the 80s vibes). So it's obivously something else you are disliking and NOT a "software" issue. 

As for the production: having spent 2 years at home without a party (same as the rest of the world) my mood was a bit more layback and so was the mix.. If you want more in your face Filteria production then come see me play. Every track from this album is mixed/remixed differently and its more like the previous stuff in the mixing.  

To conclude: if you don't like it, that's fine but get your facts straight.
And cheers for the support until Daze or Lost in the wild or wherever you draw the line :D  

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Just now, Filteria said:

Well, since you keep posting this on every youtube video about the sound (and more than once), I think I need to answer you (for the second time)...

You seem to have taken it very personal for some reason? Either way:
1. There are 2 sounds (YES 2!) that are "software-based" in the entire Filternaut track. One is the lower fundaments (bas) of the kick and one lead sound (out of 7-8 lead layers). The kick is blended together with a Linndrum kick (yes a real Linndrum from 80's) to give the kick another character than the usual kick you heard in 1000000 releases (and also because I love the 80s vibes). So it's obivously something else you are disliking and NOT a "software" issue. 

As for the production: having spent 2 years at home without a party (same as the rest of the world) my mood was a bit more layback and so was the mix.. If you want more in your face Filteria production then come see me play. Every track from this album is mixed/remixed differently and its more like the previous stuff in the mixing.  

To conclude: if you don't like it, that's fine but get your facts straight.
And cheers for the support until Daze or Lost in the wild or wherever you draw the line :D  

I don't care anymore. And you're wrong. I've made 2 posts on YouTube. And there's nothing you nor ukiro can say, filternaut sounds like shit. But I will forever be your biggest fan, daze for me is epitome of neo goa. But all I hear now from you is excuses. And honestly I'm over it. 

Ha det bra min vän, hoppas du hittar tillbaka igen så småningom. 

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17 minutes ago, Penzoline said:

Dude, the guy behind the track explains to you how the track was made and you still refuse to believe it? That makes no sense.

Another person who expects me to lie to myself, to not believe what I'm hearing. When I damn well can hear it any other time, I'm expected to change my ears cause the guy explains it? THAT doesn't make sense. 

I don't want to start drama, but noone can ever tell me what I'm hearing is incorrect cause I can verify my hearing on a multitude of works. I don't care if its the artist himself or a forum mod that tells me I'm wrong, I simply know I'm not, and I can verify it. So whatever you wanna say, I don't care. 

And you can have your little echo chamber if you want to. I'm not gonna play. And I've been more than polite with my comments previously on YouTube and on the filteria thread. I don't need to go through it here aswell. Plus I've said like 10 times he's my favorite artist. What more do you want. 

I won't ever be an echo. 

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I'm starting to think we're not on the same page about the topic of discussion - or I'm missing something else? There is no echo chamber when we're dealing with facts. It's like saying the psynews theme is red, when it clearly isn't. If the artist says the sounds are not software, then they're not. Go check out the drumsynth in question and listen what it sounds like. Or do you think people disagree with your opinion of the track itself? Because that's just not the case.

I'm so confused about your reaction.

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11 hours ago, Penzoline said:

I'm starting to think we're not on the same page about the topic of discussion - or I'm missing something else? There is no echo chamber when we're dealing with facts. It's like saying the psynews theme is red, when it clearly isn't. If the artist says the sounds are not software, then they're not. Go check out the drumsynth in question and listen what it sounds like. Or do you think people disagree with your opinion of the track itself? Because that's just not the case.

I'm so confused about your reaction.

Echo chamber meaning "everyone else" thinks this album sounds awesome, including artist himself, but me. Seems like I'm just not agreeing with anyone on the topic of Mr jannis' new album. That's what I meant. Or, I'm the only one speaking about it, I'm positive I'm not completely alone, there must be someone agreeing with me, somewhere. That's all I meant. 

 

And I never ever claimed it was software, and even if it was it could still sound amazing. I said it sounded like it, it had that old school software "tint" on it. I'm thankful for filterias input on it, but it doesn't change what it sounds like to me and I just feel gaslighted tbh. 

Enough here please I don't want to argue with anyone anymore. 

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Back to the topic.

This is like a seasonal piece. How many threads in the vein "it was better before".

I'm not saying this is wrong, but for me this is inevitable when your talk about art movement. Honestly this is the same tune with any music style electronic or not.

90's psyrance is awesome but it was 30 years ago... are we talking of music sensibility or youth nostagia... ? :P just kidding.

But when you reach that point of intensity, maybe it is like if you have been as far as it was possible or intersting to go. An example : bebop in the 50's. The guys went as far as possible in rterms of velocity and complexity... and then, what else ? kind of blue, the perfect opposite. The only way.

Psytrance, more than any other genre, is for me the music of the future and I personnally love and expect hearing new and unnerving sounds.

Revolution rather than evolution then :D

Remember, nothing lasts, but nothing is lost !

OK that was my 2 cts. I hope my english wasn't to laborious to read :)

 

On 7/17/2022 at 3:07 PM, Magus Knight said:

I would be very interested if the people in this thread could follow the OP, and also post something new you find to be unique/cutting edge.

YES please !

 

 

 

 

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Devolution and the Soft Organic Edge

One problem with "cutting edge" as a phrase is that it suggests the trendy, the sharp, the new, the hip. But what if the new is ancient, organic, soft? 

To pick up on Wadax's comment about the "evolution" of jazz and how after the cul de sac of extreme tempos in bebop we got Kind of Blue, I feel that Goa reached a kind of dead end with hyperfast hi-tech machine gun psytrance with this as an early example (ag, no man, I just wanted an opportunity to post this fantastic cover art):

 

image.png.21ea9f56597d36b56cef418b2861e484.png

 

For me, the "cutting edge" is in fact a blunt edge that goes back to the roots of Goa in slower and more organic music. I think it can be found in the slowed up, dark, and extremely psychoactive swampdelica of Battle of the Future Buddhas, Katedra, Proxeeus. This is the opposite of showy music for the festival (which will continue). It abandons humanity's magpie love for shiny stuff, manifesting Goa's original love for nature in a more organic music and sound for the darker era in which we now live: 

 

 

 

I doubt that this will much appeal as there is no rap, no trap, no dubstep, no hyperbole. It feels ancient rather than new, but for me this is a step forward in Goa. ~*~

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, astralprojection said:

Echo chamber meaning "everyone else" thinks this album sounds awesome, including artist himself, but me. Seems like I'm just not agreeing with anyone on the topic of Mr jannis' new album. That's what I meant. Or, I'm the only one speaking about it, I'm positive I'm not completely alone, there must be someone agreeing with me, somewhere. That's all I meant.

Seems perfectly okay to me. Can't please everyone. These sentences, however, have different (and more reasonable) words to them than the above "it's software" / "it's not software" topic ;) ... I guess people were just confused about that.

I find it cool that Mr. @Filteria answered here. I'm no superfan of that track ... and I like your explanation.

 

As for the EVOLUTION thing ... that is a supercomplex topic. Where do you want it to evolve? Faster bassline? More melody? Sometimes, you can't have more or it becomes cacophony in a BAD way.

Isn't it just rather the case that each and everyone of us just wants their synapses tickled in a good way?
Well then: if you do have a way that you like your synapses tickled, then everything against that way will not float your boat, nevertheless how technologically advanced it comes at you.

I at the moment enjoy an old Matenda track ( Matenda - Sophisticated Mind ) and am reminded again: you can throw me the purest, most crisp new production, maybe even avantgarde and creative and progressive and ... I won't like it more than I do my listening experience right here right now...?

I get WAY more "disappointed" when I see people not MOVIN' anymore to the new (and old) stuff ... no ENERGY ... if you get what I mean.
This is becoming a slight problem for my motivation ... I percieve most people have 9 to 5 jobs and a latent grumpyness at the current political and societal situation and no nerve anymore to deal with any deeper topic - or even with something slightly negative...
But well, if people only traffick in these whitewashed hallways of their comfort zones anymore, you get a bland combination of music, style and actions (!) that is just that: no evolution.

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nice to see people talking again.
what i love about music, is it's personal, and we like what we like, i think you prob find this is all just a generation gap, i would imagine there are alot of members here who prob wern't even born when goa came about, and maybe just find it all a little bit old. like watching an old black and white movie on tv, alot just don't make sense, seems a bit out dated, and what the hell they talking about!
music of any kind needs some soul, some sort of energy to resonate with, and most of that boom boom, gallop gallop, dark zeno or what ever you crazy kids listen to these days, just doesn't seem to have any of that. saying that am sure some may, but sifting through all that gets a bit monotonous.
think i will just kick back with a cup of tea and put on a CD, smoke my pipe and whittle on the porch to lone deranger

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@technosomy you can’t go wrong with The Lone Deranger. Gonna take a listen to that one to now, and watching the new Netflix docuseries about psychedelics: ”How To Change Your Mind” (Good docuseries btw, I only wish they would’ve expanded some on the horrible MK-ULTRA segment of the Psychedelic history). And this docuseries certainly ties in to the evolution of the Psytrance music as well. Even if they didn’t show any of that infortunately, only its precursor, with the advent of the hippies in the counterculture of the 1960s.

To me Simon Posford is like the Jimi Hendrix of the Psytrance classics. His synth riffs are still the best to this day. Dark, twisted and very geometric. I love the bubbly squidgy sounds! The main riff in Trancepotter is crazy. :o

@Filteria, always nice with some technical production insights/background into tracks. Good to see some goa heads here again. :) 

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1 hour ago, Magus Knight said:

@DoktorG I love shroomy music (mushic) :D gonna take a listen to the shrooms this Doktor prescribed.

Dear Patient

It is always gratifying when a patient is keen to take their medication; all too often a rarity in the world today. These mycological spores may not work immediately as understated non-invasive long term palliative care is their aim, but let us know what you think. 

Hope you're feeling better soon... 

Dok 

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19 hours ago, technosomy said:

music of any kind needs some soul, some sort of energy to resonate with, and most of that boom boom, gallop gallop, dark zeno or what ever you crazy kids listen to these days, just doesn't seem to have any of that. saying that am sure some may, but sifting through all that gets a bit monotonous.

True, so true! I have registered that phenomena already years ago ... and it's not that cheesy "in the old times it was all better" rambling, there really is something to it.

I meanwhile have dedicated a huge part of my free time to FIND interesting music - music that is modern (more or less) and still has the innovation, energy, zest and vibration to keep ME going.
It is not limited to psytrance, I threw that overboard long time ago.
Even when broadening the spectrum to all styles I can say it is NOT easy. I am very picky.

I also have a theory why modern stuff tends to be in worse quality that goes beyond the simple explanation, that "people like older stuff better because they might connect it to positive experiences": I think it's due to oversaturation with possibilities ... you can now warp sounds in ways never before possible, do this creative notion here, then do that ... I saw it with my mate in the studio. This oversaturation leads to people not going into depth of the technical options as in the times before, where there was less to do and only few manuals to read and not a truckload ... and this inevitably lowers the quality.
Just like old computer programs were engineered meticulously to tickle the best out of the old (slow) hardware don't matter anymore right now because we've got huge loads of available computing power in any laptop, it's the same with the music programs and loads of VST plugins. I am quite sure there is an overload.
Remember the old Silent Hill game? The black fog was a hardware limitation ... but it went so well with the game that it actually enhanced it. Life gave them lemons, but in this case they turned them into wonderful lemonade :)
It's the limits - or more precise: the way how to deal with the limits (i.e. creativity ;) ) - that are delivering a big part of my interest in the pieces. I like DEPTH. Diving deep into one method and not jumping around wildly off to the next when you haven't even scratched the surface...
Good musicians have a way to limit themselves to fewer pieces of gear and fewer options to achieve just that: quality over quantity :)

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@RTPYou are definitely on to something. I watched a short clip about how the music to the classic snes game, Donkey Kong Country was composed. They really worked with the limitations and had to invent creative solutions to working with such a small hardware memory footprint.

This puts emphasis on something, namely that a good composition/melodies could be timeless. When a song end up becoming a tech demo of sorts with hundreds of  layers for no reason more than because it’s now technically possible. One might ask if the creative energy is distributed evenly where it really matters? The best songs for me will always be those that have a melody/chords which can be played back on a piano or guitar.

Of course this is not applicable nor relevant on more minimal and experimental types of genres. It’s just a general preference of mine (a sucker for melodies.) :D 

And yes Silent Hill, Classic! I would love to find some creepy darker music which capture a similar vibe/atmosphere.

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On 7/19/2022 at 2:42 PM, Prana4ever said:

@astralprojectionYou are not alone, I noticed the same thing on the last album. 

Thank you. I was really starting to feel gaslighted, since i got backlash from both youtube and here (albeit expectedly as anything "negative" these days seems sensitive for many), that my speakers are bad, my hearing is bad, etc. And even the legend himself adressed me both here and on youtube, which I am honored for, but sadly its for this circumstance.. And I will forever be perplexed how He himself doesnt hear the drastic reduction in sound quality from Daze to the latest. Its honestly quite flabbergasting..

Anyway.

ah yes, to whittle on a porch listening to lone deranger seems like paradise. That and Dancing Galaxy are the only cds I still own and won't ever let go of. But  @technosomyI think youre mistaken. Most people here if not everyone is well in their 30s and 40s.. I honestly dont think young people even visit forums, at all, these days. That is, unless of course you think That is young and youre like 50-60? :P

Speaking of shrooms, soon is the season to be merry! <_<:rolleyes:

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