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Procyon

What is wrong with Neogoa?

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Procyon    12

As everybody read, it was said that we don't bitch about goa or progressive, only about LightPsy (sarcasm intended). Let's do it then. But I have a good reason: it has been more than one year since I last took part in a huge thread in that other forum, you know, the-one-we-can't-speak-about, about the then-current state of Neogoa, which were blossoming to its full beauty. However, many, including me, pointed that the whole Neogoa scene seemed to be one single endless track: they were so similar, so ultra-melodic, so unimaginative, that it soon became boring.

 

I have listened to almost everything that was released in the last year. Honestly the only good thing I liked was E-Mantra's work. The rest is crap, sorry to say that so frankly. I heard, and then read, Artifakt 303's tracks and reviews- which everybody has been praising in Psynews. But in my opinion, his tracks have the same formulaic, generic, boring sequences everybody else has been doing. I immediately listened to Psychowave's release - it is all the same stuff. I just can't tell one artist from another, I don't have a track glued to my brain.

 

And in my perception, the Neogoa stuff is starting to walk its path to oblivion. It is so predictable that people don't seem to care about releases, parties, sites related to Neogoa.

It is a pity, I had high hopes that it would shake the whole psy-goa scene which has been letargic since 2002-2003.

 

Sorry for the open critics, but I think it's important to have this debate in Psynews, perhaps the only forum where Neogoa is alive.

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Richpa    906

What is Neogoa I tought it was some music genre but after reading some posts here on Psynews few weeks ago I decided not to mention that term as a genre clasification. Someone should be nice and explain us what is that Neogoa or Newschool Goa term anyway?

:)

 

Neogoa scene

Yeah, 5 serious labels and 15 releases per year.

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Procyon    12

What is Neogoa I tought it was some music genre but after reading some posts here on Psynews few weeks ago I decided not to mention that term as a genre clasification. Someone should be nice and explain us what is that Neogoa or Newschool Goa term anyway?

:)

 

Are you kidding, Richpa? I infer you have been in the scene for a long time, enough to know that Neogoa, or newschool goa, is. IMO - a Goa subgenre: it IS Goa, but it's not similar to what we heard in 1995-2003. I think of Neogoa as tracks with no internal divisions, no breaks, lots of melodies, and that's all. I may be wrong but I think Suntrip was the first label to record them.

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Rotwang    323

I also find that most neogoa (or whatever you want to call it) sounds very samey to me compared to stuff from the 90's, but finding all music from a given genre samey is traditionally a sign that one doesn't understand it; lots of people who don't like psytrance think that all psytrance sounds the same, for example, but as a fan of the genre I know that it doesn't. Procyon, isn't the fact that many people seem to agree about characteristics that may not be apparent to you (such as the fact that Cronomi records sound significantly different to Suntrip records, or that Artha's albums and Ra's albums are better than most of the others) evidence that your and my perception that all neogoa sounds the same is probably more about us than about the music?

 

e: Sorry, let me rephrase that:

 

Posted Image

 

Better?

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Richpa    906

Are you kidding, Richpa? I infer you have been in the scene for a long time, enough to know that Neogoa, or newschool goa, is. IMO - a Goa subgenre: it IS Goa, but it's not similar to what we heard in 1995-2003. I think of Neogoa as tracks with no internal divisions, no breaks, lots of melodies, and that's all. I may be wrong but I think Suntrip was the first label to record them.

 

I was sarcastic, just go through Pleiadians topic and you'll see why. Never tought that Neogoa is special genre, and never said that, but when you say: ''Oh this stuff is one of the best newschool/neogoa tunes I've heard this year'', there comes someone with: ''OMFG, how can you say neogoa/newschool goa for Goa trance music?''. Offcourse it's goa trance, but it's modern goa trance, that has been developed through different technology, by different generation of artists, labels and followers. That is such a simple thing and there is a still a bunch of people who can't accept that. Pitty.

 

www.neogoa.tk / Goa Info section:

The exact birth date of neogoa cannot be determined, but what we can use to mark the first steps into neogoa are the publishers (labels) which started to promote and release the very first new school goa trance music by a new school pioneer artists. One of those was a label from Finland, Tranceform Records, which released the first neogoa album called Anima Mundi, written by Ethereal back in 2003. Besides them, there was a Greek based label called Unicorn Music, which released a few goa trance and nitzhonot releases during the same year.

One year later, a Belgian label Suntrip Records published their first album: Filteria - Sky Input, which helped the label to build the foundations of neogoa sound, and to present itself as a pure new school goa trance publisher.

 

We can go even more in past and find some interesting stuff from Cygnetic Records, but I don't think that they're Neo-.

 

Speaking of style itself, well I dig this kind of music the most so my reply won't be objective, even if we gonna speak about Nitzho stuff, which a lot of people consider a -bit chessy. For me, this type of music is the most psychedelic stuff around and I'm enjoying it (newschool stuff).

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Padmapani    385

i know exactly what you mean. a lot of recent releases (it was much better just two years ago imho) sounds very similar.

the recipe seems to be: 1. take arabic or gypsy scale, 2. make a random (whoops, i probably should have used another word considering the other thread, but you know what i mean) melody with notes on most 1/16, 3. add fx, 4. Tada! instant win goa trance.

 

there are notable exceptions though as rotwang has mentioned (actually i think there are a lot of exceptions). cronomi and suntrip are least likely to release such music (suntrip more so lately) while free net releases are usually the worst offenders.

but i don't think it's due to your perception. for me no music comes close to goa trance and about the only time i'm not listenening to it is when i'm producing (exaggeration, but not too far off :) ), and i still see it the same way...

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Richpa    906

Speaking of free goa trance releases, I agree that we all should take even more care and deliver even more quality music and progress in direction of serious releases with professional mastering, artworks and quality music. But on the other side, it is hard job, I know that because I experienced what is like to lose money on every single release (yeah, we got some expenses too) and how hard task is to collect good tunes for V/A. Sometimes I wish I can afford better terms to artists which are part of Neogoa storyline, and that's why I'm/Neogoa gonna probably quit with free music next year.

 

But, and there is always but...this:

 

1. take arabic or gypsy scale, 2. make a random (whoops, i probably should have used another word considering the other thread, but you know what i mean) melody with notes on most 1/16, 3. add fx, 4. Tada! instant win goa trance.

Can be found on some CD releases aswell and I'm sure that free scene so far brought a lot of quality music, projects like Blackstarrfinale, PharaOm, Sky Technology, Arronax (to name a few) are greatest examples of quality goa trance music and that's why I think that people ALWAYS appriciate more real stuff on CD when they spend 10 Euros and pay for it than something that can be found for FREE on the internet.

 

This is just my opinion about free goa trance music and I always try to bring out honest opinion, and I'm aware that we all need more improvement, but also I think that we all brought do daylight some really interesting and (in my opinion) great stuff aswell.

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Sideffect...    12

I think for a starter to me it is just goatrance. There is no such thing as Neogoa.

 

But if you like to call goatrance produced > 2005 Neogoa, that's fine be me!

I even added the word to my browsers dictionary, that should be enough Posted Image

 

Goatrance stopped evolving as a mainstream around 2001 when psychedelic trance took over and then came fullon blablabla...

 

We had maybe 1 or 2 releases like ethereal, Ypsilon 5 a year.

 

Now this sub genre is back more then ever. But you should give it some time!

 

I think it's normal when a sub genre sort of 'rises' back the first thing people will do is seek the patterns that they know and had the most success.

Not all existing Goatrance patterns have been used in what you call Neogoa.

Until now the specific pattern that we like to call 'morning trance' is almost the genera,l if no,t the only one that has been used.

 

I'm pretty sure new artist will search other existing directions/patterns in Goatrance, combine them, or let's hope, create some new ones.

 

Don't get me wrong, I understand your opinion.

 

But when you look at goatrance before the millennium.

Not all good albums were released in 1 year. It took almost a decade.

To create such a variated collection of Goatrance.

 

So have patience, I know it sucks Posted Image

 

that your and my perception that all neogoa sounds the same is probably more about us than about the music?

 

There is also a certain truth in this statement. I don't agree 100%, but it is an important variable, when it comes to experiencing music!

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PlutoDelic    1

kudos Richpa, i love the modern tag :)

 

there is only one difference between 90s and current goa trance, TECHNOLOGY.

15 years ago you needed shit loads of gear to make music, and it took a lot of love and free time to do that, hence the music at some point "in general" was better, which i personally disagree and stick to the theory that every artist made his own sort of goa trance, just because the green nuns used a lot of 303 doesnt make them Goa to me, however both the general and my point are true and coexist.

 

ps, a lot of gear = a lot of money

 

today, you can have a entry level sound card and two entry level active monitors and GOOGLE to find the rest of the stuff. what explains the cheese in a lot of releases is EASE OF CREATION, or at least the process to it. the rest is history

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what explains the cheese in a lot of releases is EASE OF CREATION, or at least the process to it. the rest is history

 

On the flip side there are a lot of great artists than can now have a voice where perhaps they wouldn't have before. :) You have to take the bad with the good.

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Penzoline    337

First off, I seriously believe some - maybe even many - people have hard time criticizing anything goatrance post 2000. Why? because there is so little of it! Simple as that. Saying releases are bad and even with constructive criticizing will lead to one of two things; either the artists acknowledges the problems and tries to get better, or they quit. Quitting is easier let me tell you that. Yes there is a grey line of not caring, or acknowledging little but I'd say the type of this scene is generally more prone to lead to one of the extremes. Lack of money is a big factor.

 

This is how I feel about why you wonder why it seems everyone thinks every release is good, even if it may not be. I'm not stating facts, I do not know for sure, but personal experience speaks for itself.

 

Second off, I personally think the scene is finally picking up, simply because of the introduction of Erta Alé. Such a different experience. You can literally hear the time spent on those tracks, this is why they remain interesting from the beginning to the end. There is always something interesting going on and it never repeats itself too much. I really agree a lot of new goa lack this type of depth, but even so there are releases which remain high caliber no matter if they sound typical.

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PlutoDelic    1

On the flip side there are a lot of great artists than can now have a voice where perhaps they wouldn't have before. :) You have to take the bad with the good.

 

absolutely

 

First off, I seriously believe some - maybe even many - people have hard time criticizing anything goatrance post 2000. Why? because there is so little of it! Simple as that. Saying releases are bad and even with constructive criticizing will lead to one of two things; either the artists acknowledges the problems and tries to get better, or they quit. Quitting is easier let me tell you that. Yes there is a grey line of not caring, or acknowledging little but I'd say the type of this scene is generally more prone to lead to one of the extremes. Lack of money is a big factor.

 

This is how I feel about why you wonder why it seems everyone thinks every release is good, even if it may not be. I'm not stating facts, I do not know for sure, but personal experience speaks for itself.

 

well, forwarding the word wasnt it? lets take the age as the difference maker again.

 

15 years ago you had to know people to get updated about music, now u can check psynews from your phone man...

yes it had a lot to do with the amount of releases, but news/information wasnt spreaded like it is today even if the amount didnt change, not to forget how fast feedback you get today (myspace, soundcloud, facebook, <promoting>Google Music</promoting> )

 

15 years ago, that person that updated you about music was maybe respected, today you have to judge the reviewer, so of course it has a lot to do with personal experience cause i dont agree with most of the stuff reviewed anyway.

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Procyon    12

I understand some of you. But I don't think that we're comparisons between goa and this new stuff. Point is, if neogoa were really good, it would have been subject of praise and we would have a more popular neogoa scene now. I hope, but I don't think, it will mature as time goes by. I also agree that technology plays an important role, but it doesn't matter what high-end gadgets you have if your writing is poor. I guess it is the Achille's heel of neogoa: poor writing. That's why all the track seem to be one.

 

Can be found on some CD releases aswell and I'm sure that free scene so far brought a lot of quality music, projects like Blackstarrfinale, PharaOm, Sky Technology, Arronax (to name a few) are greatest examples of quality goa trance music

 

Sorry to disagree. Of course, they have one or two good tracks, but I can't listen to them more than once. Too bland.

 

 

Procyon, isn't the fact that many people seem to agree about characteristics that may not be apparent to you (such as the fact that Cronomi records sound significantly different to Suntrip records, or that Artha's albums and Ra's albums are better than most of the others) evidence that your and my perception that all neogoa sounds the same is probably more about us than about the music?

I know one thing, using Artha and Ra as examples: their albums may be better than the rest, but their works solely are not outstanding and when you see the whole picture - they included - their works diminish in creativity. I am not talking specifically about this or that corner of neogoa, I am talking about it as a whole. And as a whole these 'characteristics' do not matter much. Also, I disagree that it is 'about me and not the music', you see there are people who already agreed with my opinion to some degree. And, finally, as a goa fan, I am open to criticism whatever it comes from, for I know a lot of them are true. I am the first to say that neogoa is not that good. If I am open to contrary opinions, my musical 'perception' must not be that wrong.

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Procyon    12

First off, I seriously believe some - maybe even many - people have hard time criticizing anything goatrance post 2000. Why? because there is so little of it! Simple as that.

 

I don't think there are not that many releases, as you point. It may be little, if you compare it to full-on or dark-psy releases. But even after that you see a considerable amount of releases every week - take a look at Psynews releases info. Only recently I remember Ajna, Psychowave and Artifakt 303. Afgin also released a track I didn't listen to. And there are also the 'youtube' releases, tracks that don't make it to forums like Psynews, but their music is available to the public. Contrary to what Richpa said, 'only 5 labels and 15 albums a year', I believe it's much more than that.

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PlutoDelic    1

I guess it is the Achille's heel of neogoa: poor writing. That's why all the track seem to be one.

 

now we're talking my friend :)

 

Originality, Innovativity. The uniqueness is hard nowadays, i personally am awful on putting my ideas in a DAW, and thats why i dont make music at all. i dont know how to judge the artists that just go for it, i have noticed some artists do not even publicise or even share music until they agree with theirselves that finally their music is having the shape of their expectations. I sitll consider the modern age of goa a fresh scene, even the parties are rare, not to mention festivals.

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Rotwang    323

I don't think there are not that many releases, as you point. It may be little, if you compare it to full-on or dark-psy releases. But even after that you see a considerable amount of releases every week - take a look at Psynews releases info. Only recently I remember Ajna, Psychowave and Artifakt 303. Afgin also released a track I didn't listen to. And there are also the 'youtube' releases, tracks that don't make it to forums like Psynews, but their music is available to the public. Contrary to what Richpa said, 'only 5 labels and 15 albums a year', I believe it's much more than that.

 

Minor point of order: I don't think Afgin makes Goa trance any more, does he? Either way, I agree with you that 15 albums a year sounds like an underestimate.

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Tatsu    30

now we're talking my friend :)

 

Originality, Innovativity. The uniqueness is hard nowadays, i personally am awful on putting my ideas in a DAW, and thats why i dont make music at all. i dont know how to judge the artists that just go for it, i have noticed some artists do not even publicise or even share music until they agree with theirselves that finally their music is having the shape of their expectations. I sitll consider the modern age of goa a fresh scene, even the parties are rare, not to mention festivals.

 

Maybe it is not only about the scene being rather fresh but also most of the artists being rather young? I mean you do have Ra but there are others that are not making music that long. So imho it is somehow logical that they are still getting into it, bringin in their own ideas but using given paterns. Over time it will be easier for them (or even necessary since they might get bored otherwise) to evolve the style with new paterns. Sure you can say argue that then maybe they should not release their stuff but even when given paterns are used I personaly enjoy that music. Means I'm glad there are 15 or whatever figure it is realeases per year. On the other hand I also understand when some people think it's boring because they know the old Goa stuff for years now and wait for an improvement (improvement not in the sense of full-on or progressive that came out of the scene but improvement in the patterns of an existing style).

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Richpa    906

Minor point of order: I don't think Afgin makes Goa trance any more, does he? Either way, I agree with you that 15 albums a year sounds like an underestimate.

 

He's doing Euro-trance tunes lately.

 

2008. - CD's 12 | Digital 9

2009. - CD's 17 | Digital 10

2010. - CD's 13 | Digital 26

2011. - CD's 9 | Digital 9

 

Labels:

 

1) Suntrip

2) Cronomi

3) Sita (even it's more nitzho-goa)

4) Phototropic

5) Ezel-Ebed

6) Dimensional

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Procyon    12

You are right to some degree, Tatsu.

I think these neogoa artists should have experienced some other musical styles before - or during - their neogoa 'career'.

Unfortunately, they didn't experience punk, gothic, heavy metal, hair metal, the 1980s, etc etc etc...It is sad that the 1990s,

when most of them were born, was a tasteless decade, musically speaking.

But on the other hand I don't think this is an excuse. We have access to archived musical info that we never had 15 years ago,

it is all there. It should be like a good writer writing a book about a time he didn't live. I take Humberto Eco's 'The Name

of The Rose' as a good example.

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PlutoDelic    1

Tatsu is quite right, somebody mentioned patience here anyway

 

funny how Age comes in in different forms, but we would confirm ignorance if we say "too young", need a reference point? ANTARES.

 

Yet again, there are some artists, which are on OLDER AGE now, and some of them changed A LOT, some of them think that every artist will have to undergo those changes, and that makes me sick.

 

ps, as a technology occupied person, i want to share something with the 90s artists though

 

how in hell could they make music with Windows 95? that remains a mystery to me

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Elysium    4

There are obviously good and bad music in any genre.But to me and this is my personal opinion so don't get upset (it's nothing personal) I find a lot of the neo-goa juvenile in both the over the top layers of sounds and melodies and especially production wise. Yes I know many are quite young artists but I can not help feeling that they could benefit from digging into their studios and find their own sound. Too many try too hard to sound like someone else instead of being themselves. IMO this is not evolution but stagnation(with a few exceptions of course)

.

My advice (given in a good spirit) is to take it easy and not be in such a hurry to define a "new" genre as there's really no new invention of the wheel here. On the contrary it copy what's already been here.

 

IMO IMO IMO IMO IMO :)

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ion1zed    23

While some do sound similar to me, I try to concentrate on the outstanding ones. What about Alienapia for example?

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Sideffect...    12

Tatsu is quite right, somebody mentioned patience here anyway

 

 

I did mention patience, like I said before, this new (fresh) comeback of Goatrance maybe needs some time and the more talent, the better imo!

Maybe the foundation of a huge return has just started, and without a doubt, it starts with existing pattern and melodies. As a fan of goatrance I won't deny that.

But think about it.

Compare other music genres and their evolution.

Psy had done a GREAT job in 15 years.

This speed of renewal was maybe impossible to retain.

Maybe it is not only about the scene being rather fresh but also most of the artists being rather young? I mean you do have Ra but there are others that are not making music that long. So imho it is somehow logical that they are still getting into it, bringin in their own ideas but using given paterns. Over time it will be easier for them (or even necessary since they might get bored otherwise) to evolve the style with new paterns. Sure you can say argue that then maybe they should not release their stuff but even when given paterns are used I personaly enjoy that music. Means I'm glad there are 15 or whatever figure it is realeases per year. On the other hand I also understand when some people think it's boring because they know the old Goa stuff for years now and wait for an improvement (improvement not in the sense of full-on or progressive that came out of the scene but improvement in the patterns of an existing style).

 

Indeed, if someone stopped listening to Goatrance like 5 years ago for example cause it became boring/repetitive, those new releases will be still boring to him or hear ears.

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DreamWalker    1

I've restrained myself from replying to threads like this before, but I'm a little drunk right now so who cares?

I agree, most neogoa is formulaic and unoriginal pap.

 

There. I said it.

 

That feels better.

 

I don't care what most people say, there was some kind of awesomeness in the air in the 90's that isn't around anymore in the "goa" scene.

 

Filteria, Khetzal, E-mantra, as talented as they are, don't compare in my mind to Pleiadians, KoxBox, and Hallucinogen, etc...

 

But in the end, who gives a crap. Listen to what you like. This is just my tired opinion.

 

I'll keep hoping for the next Etnica.

 

--edit--

 

Now that I'm sober I'll qualify the statement about Filteria, Khetzal, and E-mantra. :D

 

I picked these guys out because they are probably the artists at the top of the Neogoa bunch as far as I see.

 

I love Sky Input, etc. and Corolle though I haven't listened to much of E-mantra's work yet.

 

They are masterpieces of this movement.

 

But to me, there is an obvious difference between these albums and the classics of the 90's to around 2001.

 

Everybody knows that this is the differentiation between classic goa and neogoa.

 

I guess I meant that they have to be treated in a different light and not treated as if they were continuations of the same movement.

 

This is probably why people get disappointed.

 

Stuff like Cybernetika's new album are what keep me listening to this new wave of psy and goa.

 

New wave, new decade(s), new sound.

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