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Procyon

What is wrong with Neogoa?

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PlutoDelic    1

In 1995 the computer was just doing MIDI sequencing. Audio applications existed, but nothing like today. Even then, MIDI sequencing didn't take much in terms of processing power.

 

 

We did not make music with a PC or Windows 95. We used an Atari Computer running Cubase 1.0.

 

stop generalizing with WE here :P.

 

i had a chat with Zirrex, Lost in Time was made with Windows 95 with a very early Sonar DAW, though i have no idea if that time had virtual additions (1997-1999)

 

ps, this topic really puts a nice debate, finally 3 pages of people not shouting at each other. and while having a go at artifact 303, as some here mentioned it, i suggest we close this topic since nothing abnormal about it could be found :P.

 

pss, can we please not mention Infected Crackheads in such topics, they never had a goa sound anyway...

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Sideffect...    12

My only objection was to the blunt generalization you and mars used.

 

Indeed advertising can cause people to steer toward a certain artist but I can let you in on another fact. Spacetribe played more international gigs than Astral in those days. I know because around 1995 or 1996 I talked to Oli at a gig in Hamburg about his gig schedule and it was massive (As I recall it was 2-3 gigs a week) whereas Astral at that time complained to me while we hang out in Tel-Aviv that they did not have enough international gigs .

Wrong again ;) I never liked it and I know more people who never liked it too (especially those who as me saw the obvious copying of other (especially Israeli) artists in their music). But this is a taste issue of course :)

 

Off course, A situation like that is possible that Space tribe had certain moments more gigs then Astral projection.

 

I will not debate the fact that you once/or more checked his agenda, or talked about it. But I doubt his agenda was online like for 5 years.

 

And maybe the impact when it comes to international marketing Goatrance being released and then entering the scene had a bigger global impact!

 

Look at huge bands like Metallica. Probably > 50% people my age have releases of them. But how many have seen them Live?

 

And ok, you don't like Infected mushroom, but we all know the majority loved them starting from 1997 until at least 2000.

 

You cannot ignore such a fact!

 

Like I said before in a previous topic where you also posted.

 

'Your taste is not a general measure"

 

and while having a go at artifact 303,

 

Having a go? Waiting for or?

I'm listening to it right now and the first impression seems ok.

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Elysium    4

stop generalizing with WE here :P.

 

i had a chat with Zirrex, Lost in Time was made with Windows 95 with a very early Sonar DAW, though i have no idea if that time had virtual additions (1997-1999)

 

ps, this topic really puts a nice debate, finally 3 pages of people not shouting at each other. and while having a go at artifact 303, as some here mentioned it, i suggest we close this topic since nothing abnormal about it could be found :P.

 

pss, can we please not mention Infected Crackheads in such topics, they never had a goa sound anyway...

 

I am allowed to generalize here as 99.9% of all studios around 1990 - 1996 used Atari running the first and early versions of Cubase 1.0. :)

 

Dumb question but who the heck is Zirrex? Never heard about this artist :unsure:

 

 

@ Sideeffect

 

I will still object to your statement that IM was loved by the majority as there's no factual analysis saying the majority liked them in the "real world" away from the internet (psytrance internet forums are mostly used by geeks like us and is not at all representative for the masses out there who visit parties and festivals). Fact is that I have met just as many people in real life in the scene who did not like IM (or did not put them on a pedestal as some do in these forums) as there are die hard fans on the internet Maybe we should keep the generalization within the borders of these forums :)

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Procyon    12

AFAIK, I never liked the "neogoa" term. We release Goatrance.

 

I agree there's some stereotyping due imo to the use of always the same software and quick-win recipes.

But nothing prevents you as a label manager to filter what you consider to be overheard.

 

Overheard is relative: Back in 2003, when you had 1 or 2 Goa albums a year, Goa addicts were starving so much that none complained. Now there are 5/6 Goa labels and around 20 releases a year, sure some have the feeling to hear 10 times more Goa than before, and sure there's some similar ideas. But we're still lightyears away from what's happening in the hiphop scene.

 

I don't now about the others, but we started Suntrip because we wanted to revive Goa. Yet if we wanted the same as before, we would just have kept listening to our old records. Now, do you realize how hard this is to find some music that's labelled Goa, and yet sounds original? I can't but laugh a those people pointing at labels. Do the labels produce the music themselves? No. They select some based on what the artists have to offer. And I'm afraid to say there's not a Khetzal, RA or Koxbox album ready every year. If you keep digging that idea you might end up releasing nothing at all.

 

At Suntrip we've never received so many promos and we've never focussed so much on quality (non-stereotyped sound, original ideas). You cannot imagine how much very decent music I turn down just because of that. But sometimes there's somethign that's nearly perfect, and even though it's made with known sounds, you KNOW people will raise their hands in the air when they listen to it. So why not give it a chance, who are we to deprive people from it? All is a matter of balance.

And that's also a matter of personal tastes, sometimes even religion.

 

I work in the IT sector and often people start complaining because they've heard about some technology too much. It's not a bad technology but they've identified its flaws and find an opportunity to claim that another technology will solve all the problem...it's a neverending story, it's human nature and I can understand it.

 

To finish, my opinion is very basic about all this: I LOVE GOATRANCE. I will keep listening to it till I don't love it anymore. I will buy or download other Goa labels' releases. I'll simply enjoy the music there is. But I will NOT wait 10 more years for an improbable Hallucinogen or Etnica album!

 

Nice to have an opinion from an insider. But again I have to disagree that this new sound is Goa trance. It is so new to me, that in my Iphone I have 'Goa' and 'NeoGoa' in separate folders. I just can't see how to mix, say, MFG tracks with Alienapia's (another neogoa artist that I appreciate, along with E-Mantra). The sounds are so distinct, and the energy they carry is so different, that I can't think of them as 'Goatrance'.

Goa was not a series of album releases, it was an ambience some of us experienced. To me, it officially died with the crap albums that Chi-ad and MFG released in 2009. My only hope that Goa is still breathing is the expected new Astral Projection album. All other Goa albums and tracks released, to me, are neogoa.

Suntrip is essential in the life of this new style of goa, but I can't deny I feel most releases just kept me away from buying more recently releases albums. The only track that I really liked, and remember by heart, is Aes Dana's in the first compilation. Simply gorgeous downtempo trance.

I hope your expectations, and ours, are met in the future, Mars. Great job at Suntrip.

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Sideffect...    12

@ Sideeffect

 

I will still object to your statement that IM was loved by the majority as there's no factual analysis saying the majority liked them in the "real world" away from the internet (psytrance internet forums are mostly used by geeks like us and is not at all representative for the masses out there who visit parties and festivals). Fact is that I have met just as many people in real life in the scene who did not like IM (or did not put them on a pedestal as some do in these forums) as there are die hard fans on the internet Maybe we should keep the generalization within the borders of these forums :)

 

So when Infected mushroom came to Belgium in 2000 If I remember correctly, the entire festival exploded.

 

So that was often not the deal in other countries? Then I must have met the wrong people while partying in Belgium and abroad.

 

We do live in another universe like you said Posted Image.

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Elysium    4

So when Infected mushroom came to Belgium in 2000 If I remember correctly, the entire festival exploded.

 

So that was often not the deal in other countries? Then I must have met the wrong people while partying in Belgium and abroad.

 

We do live in another universe like you said Posted Image.

 

I've seen many festivals explode where IM was not playing. That's not a valid argument ;)

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PlutoDelic    1

I am allowed to generalize here as 99.9% of all studios around 1990 - 1996 used Atari running the first and early versions of Cubase 1.0. :)

 

Dumb question but who the heck is Zirrex? Never heard about this artist :unsure:

 

the generalizing was just a joke to irony, my apologies.

 

Zirrex, well there's not much i can do for you then. to me he's by far the most skilled producer, maybe a bit experimental but no second WEIRD or UNUSUAL, i do not expect everyone to know him but the man has really advanced music making skills. Here's a nice piece, but i can already tell you wont like it.

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Elysium    4

the generalizing was just a joke to irony, my apologies.

 

Zirrex, well there's not much i can do for you then. to me he's by far the most skilled producer, maybe a bit experimental but no second WEIRD or UNUSUAL, i do not expect everyone to know him but the man has really advanced music making skills. Here's a nice piece, but i can already tell you wont like it.

 

Nope you are right :) I did not like it. I do not recall how many times I've heard that lead sound and the other sounds used in the 90's ;)

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Procyon    12

I am another veteran who disliked Infected Mushroom from track one.

 

I always had this insight that they were big s**t, and they could stink badly.

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Sideffect...    12

I've seen many festivals explode where IM was not playing. That's not a valid argument ;)

 

Off course, but they were NOT playing. I never said it was necessary.

 

You should give me an argument where/when they were playing and it did not explode (enough) considering that certain time of period Posted Image

 

Pffffffffffffff

 

This goes on & on Posted Image. Why God? Why?

 

Posted Image

 

 

 

 

You know what, forget it Posted Image

 

Peace! Posted Image

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Elysium    4

Off course, but they were NOT playing. I never said it was necessary.

 

You should give me an argument where/when they were playing and it did not explode (enough) considering that certain time of period Posted Image

 

Pffffffffffffff

 

This goes on & on Posted Image. Why God? Why?

 

Posted Image

 

 

 

 

You know what, forget it Posted Image

 

Peace! Posted Image

 

They played in Copenhagen a few times a year and I did not see (at the one party I attended) anything exploding (except for some silicone bimbo's flashing their teddy bears). On the contrary people kinda laughed at them when they pressed start on a CD player and pretended to be rock-stars ;) This was in 1999 as far as I remember.

 

Well we both like a good debate and it's nothing personal...just good fun :)... nice picture he he :)

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ma05683    36

Wrong again ;) I never liked it and I know more people who never liked it too (especially those who as me saw the obvious copying of other (especially Israeli) artists in their music). But this is a taste issue of course :)

 

+1000

Infected is a result of promotion at all

as most of todays artists

 

infected promoted back then as the new wave at goa scene(as todays artists :) ),new sound etc etc

but for my personal taste its just

blipsssssssssssss and cheesy piano melodies(exept the 1st track of The Gathering :) )

excuse me

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Otto Matta    3

I never really became a big fan of IM, but I respect them for bringing a fresh, bold and very advanced technical sound to the scene back in the day. Nobody sounded like them, and that was their big asset.

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mars    139

Close your eyes and enjoy the music!

That's all I'm saying.

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Elysium    4

Close your eyes and enjoy the music!

That's all I'm saying.

 

Taste is taste mars. That's all I am going to say.

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Elysium    4

I never really became a big fan of IM, but I respect them for bringing a fresh, bold and very advanced technical sound to the scene back in the day. Nobody sounded like them, and that was their big asset.

 

I guess this is the exact issue where we do not agree at all.

 

To me they sounded like someone copying heavily from the following underneath artists. I simply fail to see how they were close to being unique as when I listen to their in your opinion amazing and in some people's opinion "groundbreaking " first release (probably based on the fact many of those who think it's groundbreaking did not know what came before IM as they were introduced to the scene via IM due to their clever promotion strategy) all I hear are sounds I've listened to many times before in the underneath mentioned artist names. Yes they had a good production but that does not make them unique. IMO

 

Sandman

MFG

Tandu

Astral Projection

 

to name a few appearing in my mind when I listen to IM's first releases incl. The Gathering.

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mars    139

I think we have to be careful not generalizing here and speak for everybody but keep it to a "IMO" :)

 

Now I actually agree as of course there were complaints (as there is in any scene in any year). BUT let's be honest here now. At those days it took a hell lot more to make a tune. It took hardware studio access and a bit more knowledge regarding equipment and studio technique. Basically those who ended up on vinyl and CD's had studio and composer experience whereas today 95% have absolutely no or very limited studio/technical/composer experience before they get released. It's here the big difference is found. IMO :)

Right, my sentence ended with "for example". I could take another example: I clearly remember Elysium was one of the projects that were very, very praised (at least in my country). Maybe less present in compilations than AP, but surely very present in DJs sets. Whereas stuff like Bodh Gaya that has a quite similar style wasn't much played, neither praised. I mean, people DID listen and compare hard too then.

 

Anyway, I agree the investment needed at the time (not only money) was kind of a first filter of the music then produced. I agree -- although it could be twisted the other way around, saying people from eastern countries or south america couldn't afford the gear whereas they certainly had good musicians and lots of idea. Ah well, opening the "market" with software has its good and its bad facets.

 

Overall, like many others here I guess, I'd say there's anything wrong with (Neo)Goa now, if you don't assume every release is top and if you take the time to make your own selection.

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Otto Matta    3

I think IM really hit their stride with Classical Mushroom and then quickly declined thereafter, probably because of popularity and ego. They certainly did not sound like those other artists you mentioned, Elysium, even if they may have been inspired by them. IM had their own voice, which is critical to good music (and successful music).

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ma05683    36

I think IM really hit their stride with Classical Mushroom and then quickly declined thereafter, probably because of popularity and ego. They certainly did not sound like those other artists you mentioned, Elysium, even if they may have been inspired by them. IM had their own voice, which is critical to good music (and successful music).

 

 

add Shpongle also(at the artists Elysium mentioned above) lol

 

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Elysium    4

I think they really hit their stride with Classical Mushroom and then quickly declined thereafter, probably because of popularity and ego. They certainly did not sound like those other artists you mentioned, Elysium, even if they may have been inspired by them. IM had their own voice, which is critical to good music (and successful music).

 

Again I totally disagree. When I listen to example their lead sounds I have heard those sounds many many times before. I recall that I got a promo of The Gathering (never used by me though and given away a long time ago) and told this was a groundbreaking release and listening to it I asked if they (BNE who I also released with a year before The Gathering was released) could pin-point to me where the groundbreaking aspects of the release was. They could not point it out to me which said it all to me ;)

 

No matter of what some people say I will never agree that this was groundbreaking, unique or a sound that had not been heard before. That does not mean I do not aknowledge that they had talent and that they were extremely good at what they did (especially when it came to promoting themselves with help from clever people at BNE/YoYo). But to call this groundbreaking and unique is an overstatement based on a hype.

 

My point still remain that to the people who had no prior experience with the scene or the artists dating prior to IM (IM who introduced them to psychedelic trance) it would be considered a groundbreaking unique release as this was their first experience with psychedelic trance.

 

Heck I thought Depeche Mode was groundbreaking but those heavily into pioneering electronic bands prior to Depeche Mode found them to be copycats ;)

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Otto Matta    3

Shpongle

Definitely. And Hallucinogen too, I'm sure.

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Insejn    63

I guess this is the exact issue where we do not agree at all.

 

To me they sounded like someone copying heavily from the following underneath artists. I simply fail to see how they were close to being unique as when I listen to their in your opinion amazing and in some people's opinion "groundbreaking " first release (probably based on the fact many of those who think it's groundbreaking did not know what came before IM as they were introduced to the scene via IM due to their clever promotion strategy) all I hear are sounds I've listened to many times before in the underneath mentioned artist names. Yes they had a good production but that does not make them unique. IMO

 

Sandman

MFG

Tandu

Astral Projection

 

to name a few appearing in my mind when I listen to IM's first releases incl. The Gathering.

 

edit: Why did your post disappear ? :(

 

I'm stunned.

I find it very weird that someone who was so early with scene and, obviously, knew alot about the scene back then (and still does I assume), can't hear that unique sound they had in their early releases. Frankly, I don't know what is going on with your ears man... But anyway, you said "To me" so I guess taste is taste and all that shit.

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Otto Matta    3

Again I totally disagree. When I listen to example their lead sounds I have heard those sounds many many times before. I recall that I got a promo of The Gathering (never used by me though and given away a long time ago) and told this was a groundbreaking release and listening to it I asked if they (BNE who I also released with a year before The Gathering was released) could pin-point to me where the groundbreaking aspects of the release was. They could not point it out to me which said it all to me ;)

 

No matter of what some people say I will never agree that this was groundbreaking, unique or a sound that had not been heard before. That does not mean I do not aknowledge that they had talent and that they were extremely good at what they did (especially when it came to promoting themselves with help from clever people at BNE/YoYo). But to call this groundbreaking and unique is an overstatement based on a hype.

 

I'm not talking about the specific sounds - they're all using synthesis, after all - I'm talking about their general aesthetic - their "sound." Sorry if the translation doesn't come over very well. What I mean, for example, is that extremely dry and crisp aesthetic they had that didn't depend on a lot of reverb to give it atmosphere, like with the artists you listed (who I like a whole lot more than IM, BTW). Their technique was enough to support their unique aesthetic, and that's enough to get people excited. It's a very obvious difference to my ears, but perhaps not to everybody's. What was obvious was the stir they created in the late '90s, one that lasted several albums, unlike, say, Skazi, or other artists I could mention but won't.

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Elysium    4

I'm stunned.

I find it very weird that someone who was so early with scene and, obviously, knew alot about the scene back then (and still does I assume), can't hear that unique sound they had in their early releases. Frankly, I don't know what is going on with your ears man... But anyway, you said "To me" so I guess taste is taste and all that shit.

 

Well nothing is wrong with my ears except for a mild tinnitus. I am stunned that you actually write this nonsense as taste indeed is taste and that I never said anyone of you are wrong in thinking the way you do. I merely express that I believe that the majority of IM fans base their opinion on the fact most of them (not all and I am not saying you) was not part of the scene prior to IM's release (some of them if not the majority probably got into the scene due to IM's release long after it was released after some of their friends recommended it as being the best "s**" ever - again based on that they did not have any knowledge about prior releases in this scene). Funny thing is I have never heard any of the artists or DJs I used to play with and work with mention IM as unique or groundbreaking. So a lot of IM's fans base their judgement on what they head first and that's all OK. But that does not mean something is wrong with my ears or that my opinion is less valid than yours.

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