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Why do psy artists become less "psy" over time?


healium
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It's funny that people are fighting for three pages for the wrong reason.

 

The topic is why psy artists become less "psy" over time, not why psy artists evolve their sound.

 

A psy artist can choose from dozens of genres (both electronic and not), but it seems that most of them decide to ride the mainstream wagon.

Check out IM. A famous psy band that tried something different with the second cd of Converting Vegetarians, but from there they went completelly mainstream with adding vocals and having rockstar perfomances.

 

I also don't get how psytrance can limit an artist if he decides to evolve. You can be as morning or dark, groovy or aggressive, spacey or rough in psytrance. Yet most of the old school legends turn to full on or prog.

 

exactly

 

1. following trends is not trying and evolving

2. i dont believe for a second they make lame full on/prog because that happens to be what they like so much

 

i would not care for 1 second if all psy artist would make techno all of a sudden, as long as it's good techno. but somehow it tends to be even worse than other run of the mill stuff.

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my story in this one;

 

 

during the last year and little bit more...my music become less "psy" (not that before it was hardcore psy :)) and more trancy/ euro uplfiting trance,and the main reasons are:

 

1. first the music,as a person,i found that in this style (euro trance) you can express your emotions more clearly,it has more uses of elements that puts the emotioanl human parts in the front,such as piano,fat warm leads,vocals(singer woman or men),warm pads,the structure of the track is like a normal song,you are focus more in making regular music,insted puting a 303 bass line the whole track,and playing with the cut off, although i love the 303 sound until today :)

 

2.pepole changed by the years,and it tooks effect on the music,if in the past i was realy into this " shiva goa spiritual" stuff, lets call it the "hipi typecast" :)...well no i am no longer in that place as a person,the music i still love(goa),but my state of mind is totally diffrent now,i am less searching to digg to much in making music,sure i am still puting a whole story in my music,but it is less twisted & spiritualizm...and it is more goes to regular trance music,happy,shiny,without to much "searching for other planets in my mind"...i passed this time in my life as a person,and it effects on the music.

 

3.well in my case,psychedelic music was sometimes the place i could be kind of a "rebel",you all know,when you are young,you want to be diffrent,to feel special and making not a regular music,and so the music u do goes to this direction,thats why psy music is a good place to be,but....when you grow up,and you understand more about life,and you are less rebel,and you dont need or want to "fight" with the world,or try to prove somthing,or feel too much special, cause life is too short for this stuff :)...you just want to wake up in morning,drink my red bull,and start the day nicely :)...then your music became more solid,regular,less "psy advantures" in music,and more friendly to the ears.

 

this are the main reasons in my case,but again,it doesnt says that i will not make goa in the future,the opposite,when you grow up as a person by the years,you are more open minded about music,and to life in general,so i can do goa music if i am in the mood,and i can make a typical euro trance with vocals,i have no rulls in this case,always keeping open mind,and follow what i want to do in the same time & enjoy music,cause after all...its only music :)

 

and for the record,i am still love goa trance,as much as i love a lot of other kinds of music genres & styles,if its good to my ears,so it takes :)

 

anyway...hope not digging to much in this one...but i think i am more understood for some pepole now :)

 

so cheers everyone,enjoy life & good music :)

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I've got this theory - seems most people start out with psychedelics, and then move on to using them less frequently, or not at all, meanwhile using more of substances like alcohol or hard drugs like opiates or stimulants..

 

Lots of psy artists start out with really deep trippy work, and then their albums often become more and more mainstream, less deep and trippy - my theory is that they don't really use psychedelics much anymore, like most people, they move toward simpler and less inspiring substances..

 

Any ideas about that? Or other ideas about why it is that artists seem to put out music that is less deep/psychedelic, and more mainstream over time? There are exceptions to this obviously, but it seems people are always complaining about psy artists getting less deep as time goes on, and I agree..

 

yes I agree abosolutly , You know people , artists too grow up and leave drugs may be or just freakin out , bur lots of them starts to play something progressive music or minimal... old ages makes them something else. I think all the world get closer to a big mainstream ...

youngers must keep the opposite direction ;)

but ask Goa Gil abut The Nommos , he never will leave psychedelic style however is he so grandfather of us... :D

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my story in this one;

 

 

during the last year and little bit more...my music become less "psy" (not that before it was hardcore psy :)) and more trancy/ euro uplfiting trance,and the main reasons are:

 

1. first the music,as a person,i found that in this style (euro trance) you can express your emotions more clearly,it has more uses of elements that puts the emotioanl human parts in the front,such as piano,fat warm leads,vocals(singer woman or men),warm pads,the structure of the track is like a normal song,you are focus more in making regular music,insted puting a 303 bass line the whole track,and playing with the cut off, although i love the 303 sound until today :)

 

2.pepole changed by the years,and it tooks effect on the music,if in the past i was realy into this " shiva goa spiritual" stuff, lets call it the "hipi typecast" :)...well no i am no longer in that place as a person,the music i still love(goa),but my state of mind is totally diffrent now,i am less searching to digg to much in making music,sure i am still puting a whole story in my music,but it is less twisted & spiritualizm...and it is more goes to regular trance music,happy,shiny,without to much "searching for other planets in my mind"...i passed this time in my life as a person,and it effects on the music.

 

3.well in my case,psychedelic music was sometimes the place i could be kind of a "rebel",you all know,when you are young,you want to be diffrent,to feel special and making not a regular music,and so the music u do goes to this direction,thats why psy music is a good place to be,but....when you grow up,and you understand more about life,and you are less rebel,and you dont need or want to "fight" with the world,or try to prove somthing,or feel too much special, cause life is too short for this stuff :)...you just want to wake up in morning,drink my red bull,and start the day nicely :)...then your music became more solid,regular,less "psy advantures" in music,and more friendly to the ears.

 

this are the main reasons in my case,but again,it doesnt says that i will not make goa in the future,the opposite,when you grow up as a person by the years,you are more open minded about music,and to life in general,so i can do goa music if i am in the mood,and i can make a typical euro trance with vocals,i have no rulls in this case,always keeping open mind,and follow what i want to do in the same time & enjoy music,cause after all...its only music :)

 

and for the record,i am still love goa trance,as much as i love a lot of other kinds of music genres & styles,if its good to my ears,so it takes :)

 

anyway...hope not digging to much in this one...but i think i am more understood for some pepole now :)

 

so cheers everyone,enjoy life & good music :)

 

You still cool man! For example The Dream Master is a great album :)In Hungary so many of the goa fans love Your music...

Best wishes!

Janos

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thanks for your views afgin. i dont really get it, but i understand.

 

What I got from Afgin's post is that he likes Euro Trance with vocals in it and that's why he makes it. Perfectly reasonable. We may be disappointed because we don't like the style but I still think that artists should make the kind of music that they want to make.

 

Baba Gil is fraud. He cant make music. Nommos is made by his Wife! All he does is passing on the bong.

 

Don't underestimate the value of "vibes" :P

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I'm not doubting that some artists jump the bandwagon to keep a steady income/stream of gigs coming (I've met a few myself), but at the end of the day most artists are just music-lovers like the rest of us.

 

Maybe it's not always about the money when an artist decides to make music in a new trend. Maybe it's just because the artist finds some new inspiration - finds out that a different kind of music is actually really good.

 

If an artist only makes music in a particular style only to appeal to old fans or to appeal to a larger audience (whether it being sticking to the same old formula or frantically trying to jump the bandwagon) it will shine through. But if the passion for music is genuine it will also mostly shine through in the music - no matter what kind of music it is. So respect for those that follow their own taste.

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He didn't make any goa either back in the times, just dj'ing (and bad dj'ing, except for the selection of tracks) so why would he be that talented all of a sudden to do dark psytrance ...

 

That's not a proof. :P

He was involved in Kode IV before Goa Trance. And The Nommos did made some goa tracks.

After all many djs 'suddenly' turn into producers and they are vey good.

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Why does it seem from what's going on in here that mainstream music is inferior to psychedelic music?

Mainstream music can be really kick ass. Just turn on MTV for a few hours (well, VH1 maybe - MTV is now a reality channel about pregnant girls or something) and listen to some mainstream music. There is some brilliant music. Just because psychedelic music has some sounds which may be incomprehensible to most people people but are just fine for you, doesn't make it any better. So yes - some artists decided they want to stop throwing in random sounds (not a bad thing - it can sound really good) and to start making real music (no elitism intended). No one will make music just for pure money. There has to be something from the heart in there, because creativeness will not come with love. Infected Mushroom? I really dislike their music, but I guess that the reason they do it is because it makes people happy and themselves as well. As a side effect, it's a good income.

Mainstream can be really good. Even Justin Bieber has some nice songs, and if we will ignore the fact that the songs are oriented for 14 year olds, "Baby" is quite good. And he can sing pretty good. Hey, even the Beatles started as kids singing about young love with lots of girls screaming all the time.

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Hey, even the Beatles started as kids singing about young love with lots of girls screaming all the time.

 

They may have started like that, but if they'd stayed like that then we wouldn't still be listening to them 40 years later.

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That's not a proof. :P

He was involved in Kode IV before Goa Trance. And The Nommos did made some goa tracks.

After all many djs 'suddenly' turn into producers and they are vey good.

 

Seem some people here need a little history lesson ;)

 

Again as with the Nommos (His wife does all the music) Gil took some credit for passing the Bong to Peter from Kode IV. But to claim he made any of the music is an insult to Peter. Gil has never and will never be a producer. They guy don't even know what a C is!

 

Got any proof?

 

My experience, knowing them and sharing the stage with all the artists (incl. Kode IV on many occasions) and Djs all through the 90's.

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Why does it seem from what's going on in here that mainstream music is inferior to psychedelic music?

Mainstream music can be really kick ass. Just turn on MTV for a few hours (well, VH1 maybe - MTV is now a reality channel about pregnant girls or something) and listen to some mainstream music. There is some brilliant music. Just because psychedelic music has some sounds which may be incomprehensible to most people people but are just fine for you, doesn't make it any better. So yes - some artists decided they want to stop throwing in random sounds (not a bad thing - it can sound really good) and to start making real music (no elitism intended). No one will make music just for pure money. There has to be something from the heart in there, because creativeness will not come with love. Infected Mushroom? I really dislike their music, but I guess that the reason they do it is because it makes people happy and themselves as well. As a side effect, it's a good income.

Mainstream can be really good. Even Justin Bieber has some nice songs, and if we will ignore the fact that the songs are oriented for 14 year olds, "Baby" is quite good. And he can sing pretty good. Hey, even the Beatles started as kids singing about young love with lots of girls screaming all the time.

 

I completely disagree with you about mainstream pop music being good.
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Mike A:

Even Justin Bieber has some nice songs, and if we will ignore the fact that the songs are oriented for 14 year olds, "Baby" is quite good.

When I read this, I felt ashamed on your behalf. That's the ugliest line I ever read in any psy forum. Perhaps you are in the wrong one. :(

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Mike A:

 

When I read this, I felt ashamed on your behalf. That's the ugliest line I ever read in any psy forum. Perhaps you are in the wrong one. :(

 

It's impressive how narrow-minded you are ;)

 

I feel ashamed on behalf of the whole psytrance scene that it has such narrow-minded people like you in it.

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Wait, so if you don't like Justin Beiber, you're narrow minded? That's some fucking stupid logic right there.

 

You can like whatever you want. That is not the point. I reacted because he wrote this to Mike who stated he also found a few of Justin Beiber's songs to be good.

Mike A:

 

When I read this, I felt ashamed on your behalf. That's the ugliest line I ever read in any psy forum. Perhaps you are in the wrong one. :(

 

That is in my book narrow-minded and damn rude!

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That is in my book narrow-minded and damn rude!

 

In my book, the following posts are all damn rude and several of them are pretty narrow-minded to boot:

 

I dont think I've come across a more narrow-minded person musically speaking than you. Only ones I can think off are the die hard hardcore darkpsy fans. Advice.

 

Especially not when it comes to the so-called "new Goa" which IMO try to copy what has already been made (And fail IMO). That is not evolution.

 

Baba Gil is fraud. He cant make music.

 

Seem some people here need a little history lesson ;)

 

It's impressive how narrow-minded you are ;)

 

I feel ashamed on behalf of the whole psytrance scene that it has such narrow-minded people like you in it.

 

The fact that about half the posts you make in General involve you insulting one or more artists or pn regulars by itself would be pretty annoying. The fact that the other half involve complaining about how insulting we all are is kind of ridiculous.

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Seems like we have four main hypotheses here:

 

1) Money: artists change their style because it is profitable.

2) Drugs: artists change their style because of doing more drugs, less drugs, the wrong drugs, or some combination thereof.

3) Boredom: artists change their style because they get bored.

4) Age: artists change their style because they get old. (Plus having children might cause some lifestyle changes.)

 

Sound about right? I might propose two more:

 

5) Fame: artists change their style because psytrance is the black sheep of electronic music and you can't really get far with it.

6) Disgust: artists change their style because they are tired of being ripped off in the psytrance scene.

 

I tend to think some combination of all these might be likely... but you would have to look at specific cases to know for sure. The money hypothesis is the weakest of all IMO. Not many artists make a great deal of money making other styles of music either. Even if they do you can't know that it wasn't a change in musical interest that motivated the change in the first place.

 

Maybe this discussion would move forward if we consider some test cases. Perhaps someone can speculate what factors are likely involved in the creative trajectories of these ten artists:

 

12 Moons

Etnica

GMS

Infected Mushroom

James Monro

MFG

Synchro

Ticon

Wizzy Noise

Yumade

 

I think anyone knowledgeable will realize that generalizations will not work here. Each case is different.

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Guest E-Mantra

listen whatever you want ...

that's the point..

it all depends the feeling you are in

sometimes when i feel weird i listen dark ambient for example..

regarding the topic:maybe when u are a big name its easy to make music in the same pattern ..that's why many releases are in the same shape

and lets face it: psytrance seems still a small community and when you are stress for everyday problems i guess its normal to try attacking

new styles.off course keeping the limits ..try something different ..we cant hide this

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I think we better like argument than just listen the nice musics and live in(so) peace next each other!

it's time to stop fighting about who is most psychedelic... that is aint a contain of the GOA philosphi!

PLUR for everyone and have a nice day!

;):P

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Mike A:

 

When I read this, I felt ashamed on your behalf. That's the ugliest line I ever read in any psy forum. Perhaps you are in the wrong one. :(

 

 

Listen, Elysium, you call me narrow-minded, I could say some bad things to and about you. But I don't need to do that, do I?

 

As for this guy saying that Justin Bieber is a good singer, if I am narrow-minded disagreeing him. Well, then I am happy with that.

 

Going a bit too far, don't you think? You may like or not like his songs, but he can hit his notes. And a lot of people really like it, because it's a really fun and cute (yet extremely childish and un-deep) song. But don't worry, I won't release his songs on my own label and stick to the psychedelic stuff. It's ok to like both styles. :)

However, I was insulted and I feel ashamed on your behalf as well for judging me according to the fact that I like one of his songs, in addition to my old and proven history in goa trance.

 

"Oh my! he listens to bieber! crucify him!".

 

Calling one open-minded or narrow-minded according to his musical taste - that's narrow minded.

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