The "Not as much love for IFO as everyone else" thread

[NEMO.BOFH]

Head -> Nail

Head -> Mouth -> Nail

[NEMO.BOFH]

Making any music requires some skill. However, I have much higher expectations of good music than that it isn't boring. (If you judge music by whether or not it can entertain you for awhile without being bored you'd might as well go listen to popular music because that's the exact point behind it! I like my music to have depth, creativity, tell some story, be realistic, approach a goal, etc, rather than just another attempt to find an "infinite melody" that will put me into a lengthy state of bliss.)

 

Bottom line is, though, that with two layers you can largely exhaust your options for a 5 minute track in a week or so, while with 300 layers you could stumble around your whole life and never arrive at the best one.

shiiieeeet man. you are talking about taste and personal preference here, not being objective at all musically. geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedouddaere. *user banned*

[sunwolf]

shiiieeeet man. you are talking about taste and personal preference here, not being objective at all musically. geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedouddaere. *user banned*

Don't be an idiot, I talked of personal preference in the parentheses only.

 

If you give a computer 2 layers it could print out all possible combinations for a 5 minute track for you in a week.

If you give it 300 layers it would take years.

 

The genius is the special talent for arranging a massive amount of layers. Many people can arrange 2 layers successfully giving a little time and guess work.

[NEMO.BOFH]

Don't be an idiot, I talked of personal preference in the parentheses only.

 

If you give a computer 2 layers it could print out all possible combinations for a 5 minute track for you in a week.

If you give it 300 layers it would take years.

 

The genius is the special talent for arranging a massive amount of layers. Many people can arrange 2 layers successfully giving a little time and guess work.

sorry, but I am drunk and when I am drunk, I say what I feel and here goes: "You sir, are so wrong!" but hey, live in your little bubble, I have no time to waste on you.

[sunwolf]

"You sir, are so wrong!"

I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I? :wank:

[NEMO.BOFH]

I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I? :wank:

a wanker, thats what I am, but I rather be a wanker than being an ass with an iq of 6.

[frozen dream]

sorry, but I am drunk and when I am drunk, I say what I feel and here goes: "You sir, are so wrong!" but hey, live in your little bubble, I have no time to waste on you.

times change i guess

[Otto Matta]

Hey, just curious, would people consider a solo piano piece one layer or more layers? Plastikman is boring!

[NEMO.BOFH]

times change i guess

i guess.

 

Hey, just curious, would people consider a solo piano piece one layer or more layers? Plastikman is boring!

i guess you want to make a point in how you use your piano, right? i guess it could be 2 or more layers, but I am no piano player, so maybe we should ask someone that does play piano. also, does it not depend on HOW you use the piano when you play it? About Plastikman being boring, are you not again just referring to personal taste? I find Penta boring for example, but thats just my taste speaking, not what I think about him as a producer, nor about his skills as a musician.

[Otto Matta]

i guess you want to make a point in how you use your piano, right? i guess it could be 2 or more layers, but I am no piano player, so maybe we should ask someone that does play piano. also, does it not depend on HOW you use the piano when you play it? About Plastikman being boring, are you not again just referring to personal taste? I find Penta boring for example, but thats just my taste speaking, not what I think about him as a producer, nor about his skills as a musician.

I was just being stupid about Plastikman. I do find that music very boring - same with Penta, actually - but I was just trying to be funny.

 

Regarding piano, if it's just one layer then much of this conversation goes to shit. If it's not one layer, then what about guitar? The only way I see that either could be more than one layer is by using Frippertronics or some similar live looping/layering machine.

[sunwolf]

I think the piano should be thought of as multiple layers. You can press up to 10 (or more?) keys at once. It's a different type of music though. Nobody would be impressed if someone imitated a piano song in electronic music because they aren't sitting there furiously pushing piano keys, there is so much more potential.

[Rotwang]

Plastikman is boring!

+1

[qa2pir]

I think the piano should be thought of as multiple layers. You can press up to 10 (or more?) keys at once. It's a different type of music though. Nobody would be impressed if someone imitated a piano song in electronic music because they aren't sitting there furiously pushing piano keys, there is so much more potential.

But you do agree that the humanity that is carried within a thoroughly arranged and well played piano piece is astonishing.

 

Eh?

[Veracohr]

Holy crap, look what I started.

[Kryll]

I stick "IFO" on my iPod to listen to at work every now and then, but I never have that "I want to listen to this album specifically" feeling about it. It would be good party music, but there's nothing about it to make me sit up and take notice, or make me reach for it at home.

 

the more u are envolved in enjoying music, the more this event occurs (imo)

especially with goatrance

 

 

i dont really understand why u try to compare your musical perspective to the hundreds of opinions u fetch, on this matter, on the web

special music gets a special place inside yourself, which u from time to time access and re-experience

but there doesn't exist any music (IMHO) that feels special if u listen to it 24/7

 

 

 

sure.. IFO is a quality album

i myself also dont really find it special in any way (besides the fact that i don't yet own it on vinyl )

but ok, music freak talking here...

 

i dont have a top 2000 of favorite tracks

i could never have such a thing anymore

 

so i categorise music in the criteria "most suitable for this/that, most congruent with this/that, most likewise as..., in this/that area, good with this/that mood" and so forth

 

 

so i dont really understand why you are worried about this subject

[Goa Bill]

Hey, just curious, would people consider a solo piano piece one layer or more layers? Plastikman is boring!

Piano can be considered single-timbral but polyphonic. Or in other words one layered.

[Veracohr]

so i dont really understand why you are worried about this subject

Not worried. It was just a random thought. Two of the things I think most about are music and patterns; thus, patterns in music opinion. And as I said a few pages ago, I was bored. So I posted my random thought.

[sunwolf]

Piano can be considered single-timbral but polyphonic. Or in other words one layered.

Anything can be considered 1 layer. If you press 2 piano keys you are making 2 different sounds, but it sounds like 1.

[Otto Matta]

Anything can be considered 1 layer. If you press 2 piano keys you are making 2 different sounds, but it sounds like 1.

More precisely, and to the contrary, you're playing two different notes using the same sound or timbre. Similarly, a string chord on a synthesizer composed of three notes is still one sound/timbre, thus one layer. Not that that helps.

[Goa Bill]

More precisely, and to the contrary, you're playing two different notes using the same sound or timbre. Similarly, a string chord on a synthesizer composed of three notes is still one sound/timbre, thus one layer. Not that that helps.

Not helps, you are preaching to the unconvertable

[rino]

All I stated is: More layers require more skill to coordinate with a positive outcome (see my first line!!). Layered random noise takes no genius obviously. Layered music may still not be very good music. Layered music may still lack creativity. But if it is good music, it required more skill to create.

 

That music requires more skill to create DOES NOT MEAN that it will effect the history of music more. It DOES NOT MEAN that it will be more popular. It simply means it required more skill to make. Many people don't appreciate musical genius and just like to listen to catchy emotional melodies as a sort of escapism (probably including you).

You don't seem to know enough about electronic music to pick a bone with me, so I'll just leave you with a stupid illusion of listening to god like creatures creating divine melodies... Shiva almighty and all o' that.

Haven't you ever heard of producers like Robert Hood, Steve Stoll, Surgeon or Brother's Yard, who don't use melodies because they CHOSE TO? Have you not ever met a dedicated Berlin/Detroit orientated techno head who doesn't like melodies in tracks because he CHOSES TO not like them? You never spoke to an industrial afficionado who laughs at the term "(goa) trance", and still can hardly come across as an idiot because of that. Seems like you think ever since unwashed hippies started producing goa trance, suddenly the other styles of electronic music took a back seat? 'Cause they don't have complex melodic structure...

Talent and skill? Having 28 melodic segments is not skill or talent, having two, and making it sound great is talent. Feel free to ask anybody on this forum, starting with this thread. Even if there's a track out there with fantastically arranged 28 layers, that will NEVER imply it can or will be better than any given tune with immaculately applied and modulated 2 to 4 layers. Example? Take the spectacular Pleiadians track, Electra, and compare it with The Delta's equally spectacular, but not as nearly as layered, Pop. The fact you (might) fail to realize the talent and power Delta's track packs due to an apparent lack of intricacy doesn't mean it's not there.

 

B to the ULLSHIT!

+ 28 (layers, of course, what else?)

 

I agree with sunwolf, but I don't disagree with rino.

 

Making great multi-layered music that sounds great and not as random chaos requires skill.

Making one-two layered music that doesn't sound boring requires skill too.

 

That's the bottom line IMO.

Amen. That's kind of what I was trying to say as well. And Nemo and Pavel added their own examples as well...

[technosomy]

if you were there when it was released and feeling what i and many others were feeling (as mars said "the first 10 seconds of maia")

nothing remotley like that track had ever been done before.

magic

now still great but doesn't measure up to maybe the next magic track or artists that super seeded or, the ones after that

[technosomy]

I think everyone who makes goa does that.. mouse clicky clicky

 

 

 

Basically there was an epic battle up in space.. between Simon Posford, Pleiadians and Astral Projection..

 

Astral won the round on T.K.O.

 

 

Topic Closed.

T.k.o alright would love to knock them out

who is more memorable?

didn't see me selling all my hallucinogen or pleiadian cd's for 5 euro each (not to mention i almost paid others to have what was left)

but each to your own

imo of course

[frozen dream]

plastikman is plain awful and sometimes so killer

[sunwolf]

Haven't you ever heard of producers like Robert Hood, Steve Stoll, Surgeon or Brother's Yard, who don't use melodies because they CHOSE TO?

Zero relevance whatsoever.

 

Have you not ever met a dedicated Berlin/Detroit orientated techno head who doesn't like melodies in tracks because he CHOSES TO not like them?

Nope I've never met these people. Congrats for you.

 

You never spoke to an industrial afficionado who laughs at the term "(goa) trance", and still can hardly come across as an idiot because of that.

Why do you care what he laughs at? Can't you back your argument with something other than "OMGZ LOOK AT ALL DES PPL DAT LAUGH AT GOA TRANCE HAHAHAHAHA"?

 

Seems like you think ever since unwashed hippies started producing goa trance, suddenly the other styles of electronic music took a back seat? 'Cause they don't have complex melodic structure...

"Discrimination is bad. All genres are created equal." -- Is that what you're trying to say?

 

Even if there's a track out there with fantastically arranged 28 layers, that will NEVER imply it can or will be better than any given tune with immaculately applied and modulated 2 to 4 layers.

For the third time now I never said it did. Quit beating on those poor straw men.

 

Example? Take the spectacular Pleiadians track, Electra, and compare it with The Delta's equally spectacular, but not as nearly as layered, Pop. The fact you (might) fail to realize the talent and power Delta's track packs due to an apparent lack of intricacy doesn't mean it's not there.

Whoa... talent and power? You have some major problems if you think these must be lumped together. I won't deny it's a powerful track. I'm not a fan of Electra, it's not that good of a track IMO, but I still think it's complexity is very high and, even if it isn't very creative, it probably required more talent to create.