Ormion Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 LABELS!!! There are hundreds of new school Goa artists out there and thousands of listeners. There are hundreds of new artists that produce very interesting Psy (not just Goa) and thousands of listeners that like this music. So, where are they? You can find them because none label would release their music (there are always exceptions). Even the old artists like Pleiadians would release a nice album if they didn't care for the sales. (Professional artists live from their music-their job and wouldn't dare to release an album not commercial, in the fear that none label would want to release their music again- Chi-A.D. anyone?) This is the only problem with Psy Trance today: LABELS CARE FOR THE MONEY AND NOT FOR THE MUSIC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Most people care for money. If making music is your living it's probably hard not too. Only if you make a nice living & make music as a hobby can you really not think about sales. It's sad but psy just doesn't make mega bucks does it. This is all speculation by the way I'm not an artist or label Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted November 28, 2006 Author Share Posted November 28, 2006 Most people care for money. If making music is your living it's probably hard not too. Only if you make a nice living & make music as a hobby can you really not think about sales. It's sad but psy just doesn't make mega bucks does it. This is all speculation by the way I'm not an artist or label 652081[/snapback] I believe that the only difference between a mainstream and an underground music is that mainstream artists want to be rich from their music, while underground artists care mostly for the musci itself and not how to buy a new car from the sales of their releases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepton Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 LABELS!!! There are hundreds of new school Goa artists out there and thousands of listeners. There are hundreds of new artists that produce very interesting Psy (not just Goa) and thousands of listeners that like this music. So, where are they? You can find them because none label would release their music (there are always exceptions). Even the old artists like Pleiadians would release a nice album if they didn't care for the sales. (Professional artists live from their music-their job and wouldn't dare to release an album not commercial, in the fear that none label would want to release their music again- Chi-A.D. anyone?) This is the only problem with Psy Trance today: LABELS CARE FOR THE MONEY AND NOT FOR THE MUSIC. 652074[/snapback] I think you are wrong ... it is a commen fact that artists/labels don't earn shit by releasing music ... They release music as promotion to get booked on parties and festivals that's where the real money is ... and that's where things go wrong, ... because maybe you have noticed that in the end it is full on music that keeps most ppl moving because it is so easy to dance too blame the dancers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I think you are wrong ... it is a commen fact that artists/labels don't earn shit by releasing music ... They release music as promotion to get booked on parties and festivals that's where the real money is ... and that's where things go wrong, ... because maybe you have noticed that in the end it is full on music that keeps most ppl moving because it is so easy to dance too blame the dancers 652088[/snapback] In the past everyone danced too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted November 28, 2006 Author Share Posted November 28, 2006 I think you are wrong ... it is a commen fact that artists/labels don't earn shit by releasing music ... They release music as promotion to get booked on parties and festivals that's where the real money is ... and that's where things go wrong, ... because maybe you have noticed that in the end it is full on music that keeps most ppl moving because it is so easy to dance too blame the dancers 652088[/snapback] I don't believe that Psy Trance labels owners are getting rich by selling their cds, but most of them definitely want to get more money. For example if TODAY you release an Astrix style album and an old school Goa for example is 1000000% sure that the first one will sell muuuuuch more. Of course dancers-listeners are responsible too, after all they are who buy the cds, but I believe that if tomorrow suddenly the most popular genre was Goa then almost everyone of the ''casual'' listeners would follow it. BTW this is NOT a Full On bashing thread. I'm talking about low quality Psy of any kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abasio Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 In the past everyone danced too... 652092[/snapback] I found it easier to dance to psy back in the mid 90's maybe it was better to dance to. Maybe I was younger. Maybe I was less fat. Maybe I had neck a shit load of sky candy!! Nope the music was better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lepton Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 you are right in one way ... some labels are into it for the money ... but don't think it's only the labels fault .... I think the dancers as much responsible than the labels ... or maybe it's just because the scene is getting bigger .... for me, musically there are a lot of things i would like to change ... but bitching about it on a forum (don't take this personal) won't solve anything .... And I think we are still part of a DIY scene wich I think is a very good thing ... So be the change you want to see .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I don't believe that Psy Trance labels owners are getting rich by selling their cds, but most of them definitely want to get more money. For example if TODAY you release an Astrix style album and an old school Goa for example is 1000000% sure that the first one will sell muuuuuch more. 652093[/snapback] Yeah sure, but I mean if you work with something it's only natural that you take the chance of making more money if you can. In the end it boils down on the sales figures, so the buyers are responsible and not the labels. As you say yourself: Of course dancers-listeners are responsible too, after all they are who buy the cds, but I believe that if tomorrow suddenly the most popular genre was Goa then almost everyone of the ''casual'' listeners would follow it. BTW this is NOT a Full On bashing thread. I'm talking about low quality Psy of any kind. 652093[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted November 28, 2006 Author Share Posted November 28, 2006 What I want to say it's simple. You're an artist and you want to release an album. Let's just say that your music is Goa can you find a label for such music? I don't know more than 5 labels that release this kind of music. Now you're an artist and you want to release your music. Let's just say that your music is full on or progressive or dark. I know 500 labels for these kinds. Whose fault is that? IMO labels. Yes, yes, yes! Listeners are responsible for buying them BUT! Just like Lepton said the scene today is much bigger and more mainstream (Personally I still beleive that Psy Trance is pure underground). Bigger scene means more casual listeners. Casual listeners are the ones that they don't care about the music itself but they just listened to Psy fro fan or just to dance in a party. Casual listeners will listen to anything as long this is popular IMO. They will listen to anything most labels release. Now just think how many casual listeners are out there. (It's exactly the same with Heavy Metal. Ppl that listen to HIM or Evanesence are casual Metal listeners. They don't care for the musci itself, but real Metalheads hate tose groups) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 What I want to say it's simple. You're an artist and you want to release an album. Let's just say that your music is Goa can you find a label for such music? I don't know more than 5 labels that release this kind of music. Now you're an artist and you want to release your music. Let's just say that your music is full on or progressive or dark. I know 500 labels for these kinds. Whose fault is that? IMO labels. Yes, yes, yes! Listeners are responsible for buying them BUT! Just like Lepton said the scene today is much bigger and more mainstream (Personally I still beleive that Psy Trance is pure underground). Bigger scene means more casual listeners. Casual listeners are the ones that they don't care about the music itself but they just listened to Psy fro fan or just to dance in a party. Casual listeners will listen to anything as long this is popular IMO. They will listen to anything most labels release. Now just think how many casual listeners are out there. (It's exactly the same with Heavy Metal. Ppl that listen to HIM or Evanesence are casual Metal listeners. They don't care for the musci itself, but real Metalheads hate tose groups) 652122[/snapback] Yeah sure, but I understand if labels consider sales before they sign a project. I mean if they fear that they will lose money because not enough people buy the stuff it's understandable they sell mostly sure shots. So it is about the buyers in the end. And I mean especially in psy how many real psyheads (as you call them, who would still listen to the "right" music) download most stuff instead of buying? And saying that the casual listeners don't really care about the music is plain wrong imho. Sure, there are a lot of people who only listen to psy because it's a trend or whatever, but I think it's a bit simple to tell who they by telling what style they listen. There are also a lot of progheads who came from the clubscene but asuming they only came for the drugs (or the chicks or whatever) and not the music doesn't do them justice imho. I also don't see why we always have to blame somethign or somebody. What does it change anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted November 28, 2006 Author Share Posted November 28, 2006 And saying that the casual listeners don't really care about the music is plain wrong imho. I also don't see why we always have to blame somethign or somebody. What does it change anyway? 652132[/snapback] I have a lot of experience about that. I know guys who like Skazi because ''he's da shit''. I don't have a problem with Skazi. If someone likes his music is okay with me. But if someone likes his music because he thinks he's the man, or that lisyening to Skazi music will make him look neat, then there's a problem. I love dark, twisted, evil Psy but I don't listen to it beacuse I want to look ''bad'' but beacuse I like it! There's a difference IMO. When I asked those guys why they don't like old Etnica for example they just answer: ''it's cool but who listens to it anymore?'' See? Those guys don't care about musci itself, they just care about what's cool. If the labels would decide to release Goa for example then those guys will think the opposite. Of course these guys are fuckers, but it seems that most labels today care for this kind of listeners and not the true Psy lovers (any kind of Psy). And that's not a good thing for our scene. Suntrip for example releases this kind of music because they believe in it and not try to get more money. If they wanted money then they would release something different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeller Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 your right ormion, there is so much original and good unreleased psytrance out there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted November 28, 2006 Author Share Posted November 28, 2006 your right ormion, there is so much original and good unreleased psytrance out there 652143[/snapback] You said it yourself!!! Unreleased!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rezwalker Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I totaly agree for the label's fault. just a thought for the ppl who disagree with that: the last 4-5 years huge artists such Pleiadians, Joti shidhu, Oforia, Etnica, MFG, Astral projection,Shakta, Koxbox, Electric universe, Orion etc. have release CRAP albums and personally i can't believe they FORGOT (!) how to make good music..the reason indeed is 1: labels limits. there is only one exception @ 2003 with california sunshine-"sinking sand". and btw this cd released on Italian label. tragic irony for a country (israel) with big history in trance..probably the new era wants only "artists" such dali, skazi, etc etc..there is another world beyond this planet as Har-el prussky said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 LABELS CARE FOR THE MONEY AND NOT FOR THE MUSIC. 652074[/snapback] The labels that don't care for the money disappear, leaving those that have turned their operation into a profitable enterprise to fill the shops with their marketable products. If you want to refine your assessment, the problem is actually money itself. So be the change you want to see .... 652105[/snapback] Yeah, I did that... and I still have about 250 CHI-A.D. vinyl singles taking up space in my closet but at least I finally paid down the debt from that project this year. Be the change you want to see, but unfettered idealism is only going to get you into trouble once you start dealing with cold hard cash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Who needs labels anyway .... There are so many ways to sell through the net,straight from the artist. You just need to pay for the hosting. Easy and fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAH Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 the main problem behind 'experimenting' with sounds that might or might not be profitable is the business model of the music industry. Releasing a cd or vinyl is hella nice man, for sure... but you also have to pay for it. Go take a look at warp's Bleep.com, take a look at where the DnB scene is moving... it's all digital... and if you ask me that's where they are releasing the most interesting music as well, becaause people have more freedom in that medium... less costs more goodies, no more waiting for the mailman... people want both, but there is tradeoff unfortunatelly... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackCheese Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Who needs labels anyway .... There are so many ways to sell through the net,straight from the artist. You just need to pay for the hosting. Easy and fast. 652289[/snapback] I understand what you're saying, but if I were to have produced some great music, ready to be 'released' professionally, I wouldn't see much fun in putting em on the net and sell em like that. If it wouldn't be possible anymore to get something released on cd, but just digitally on the net, I wonder if I'd even want to release music, might as well go for a netlabel , I can't imagine I'd make music for the money anyway, no way. On the other hand I'm just a n00bie, just a music lover not exactly experienced with recordlabel business and all, just some thoughts I can see why the net is handy though.. seen new labels pop up daily ever since beatport and fellow sites became hot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ritual om Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 LABELS!!! There are hundreds of new school Goa artists out there and thousands of listeners. There are hundreds of new artists that produce very interesting Psy (not just Goa) and thousands of listeners that like this music. So, where are they? You can find them because none label would release their music (there are always exceptions). Even the old artists like Pleiadians would release a nice album if they didn't care for the sales. (Professional artists live from their music-their job and wouldn't dare to release an album not commercial, in the fear that none label would want to release their music again- Chi-A.D. anyone?) This is the only problem with Psy Trance today: LABELS CARE FOR THE MONEY AND NOT FOR THE MUSIC. 652074[/snapback] tell us something we don't know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goa Bill Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I'm sorry but i think you're fundamentally wrong there buddy. My favorite labels nowadays are labels that are being run by artists, so i don't know really... Iboga, Twisted, Zenon... I don't think that the problem is with labels. If you look for a good music you'll find it. Not necessarily in the psy scene though. Open your eyes. And ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 It's a big risk for a label to release a CD. How much does it cost for 1000 copies to get released these days? 6000-7000 €? In such a small scene, with so much other labels, and with low sale rates (mp3?) labels are forced to attract names that will sell. After a few successfull CD's they can start thinking about taking a leap into the unknown and release an album by a new artist. Yes, label care for the money, cause they don't wat to go bankrupt after the first release. But i think most labels are happy when they can reach a break even. I know in the movie industry producers are aiming at the people who don't download, but have the money to watch and buy movies often. After a big investigation they concuded it were 12-16 year old kid's, can't download from daddy's computer and mommy buys the DVD's as a present, whole family goes to cinema often. CGI Animation studio's & movies are popping up like mushrooms and 3 year old studios are allready making more profit then Disney did in their entire history. wanna be filthy rich? Start an animation studio. You can't go wrong if it's on a professional level. maybe psy labels are doing the same, without knowing it, skazi killarg-h full on could be the most successfull because it has the lowest download rates compared to sale rates. Probably in general, kiddo's that need idols to look up to buy the most CD's. Actually i would love to read a simular investigation on psy releases-downloads. I always wondered if the movie download is simular to music download. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 Open your eyes. And ears. 652319[/snapback] ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 This discussion is very hard, and I think it's way too easy to say there is only one problem with Psy-Trance today, there are at least 10 (!!) problems... - Downloading (the nr 1 problem) - Artists making music for a big audience so they get booked - Many labels trying to reach bigger public - The society who wants to be "hip" and very flashy/fast all the time and because of that demand a new music style every 2 years... (if you think about that, it is madness!) - Artists that make the same music for 10-15 years... They become unoriginal mostly - The scene that splitted, which means you have to fit in a certain formula - The djs: most of them spin only hits, and don't play "real" sets anymore... -... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 it's way too easy to say there is only one problem with Psy-Trance today, there are at least 10 (!!) problems... - Downloading (the nr 1 problem) 652400[/snapback] The number one problem is the fact that you are a member of a label and you think the number one problem is downloading. Go think about who would know who if it wasn't for downloading. If labels had some kind of profit from their artists' live performances noone would bitch about downloads.I'm 100% sure about that. Downloading is not a problem,it's a reality you can do absolutely nothing about it and instead of thinking of it as the number one problem you should start thinking about how to actually take advantage of it. Edit: Rah wrote something about Warp & Bleep.This site is running for a long time now.Warp Records and some other IDM/Electronica labels are light years ahead of the psy-trance scene.Maybe someone should start having some examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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