Consciousness9001 Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 According to the Underground Man, excess consciousness is a disease. And I tend to agree with him. It weakens an organism and causes a lot of suffering. I can tell you from personal experience. Why do people name their tracks like "Expand Your Consciousness" and why do we listen to them? Do we not already have enough consciousness? Are we masochistic? Or are we doing it unwittingly.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Do we not already have enough consciousness? no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agneton Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Well...I wonder what we mean with 'expanding consciousness' in the first place. Couldn't it be defined as 'getting aware and thoroughly understanding the objective reality inside and outside yourself? If this topic is about mind altering drugs usage, I cannot really see any connection with the expansion of your consciousness. Drugs only create subjective experiences that do not match reality which can be objectivly verified. If this topic isn't about that, I can't really see any harm in being fully aware of reality as it is. Truth=virtue=happiness, and thus being aware of yourself and the world around you is a way of achieving happiness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frozen dream Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 we can never have enough sunwolf, no. or do we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eudaimonia Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Well...I wonder what we mean with 'expanding consciousness' in the first place. Couldn't it be defined as 'getting aware and thoroughly understanding the objective reality inside and outside yourself? If this topic is about mind altering drugs usage, I cannot really see any connection with the expansion of your consciousness. Drugs only create subjective experiences that do not match reality which can be objectivly verified. objective reality ... IF it exists we can't grasp it , we are trapped in out subjectiveness .. We can't make any "direct contact" with an objective reality because all we have are our subjective sensations . What drugs like lsd do is allow much more of these subjective sensations in your brain that's why you get confused and time goes so slow ... Like Aldous Huxleys doors of percetion! I totaly agree with his theory! back to the question if it good to "open your doors": for some people it may help to get aware of certain things and for "spiritual" self discovery ... But some people's doors are open enough and then it gets dangerous.... the irony is that the people who could use such and experience are not interested in it and the people who are "open" enough are interested in expanding more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amithaba_buddha Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 According to the Underground Man, excess consciousness is a disease. And I tend to agree with him. It weakens an organism and causes a lot of suffering. I can tell you from personal experience. Why do people name their tracks like "Expand Your Consciousness" and why do we listen to them? Do we not already have enough consciousness? Are we masochistic? Or are we doing it unwittingly.... My View on this matter is the following: -Drugs don't do good to anyone , because if you are a young person the drugs will give you that "expanding" which is the knowledge you will reach after a lot of years when you grow up . Reaching the knowledge really fast is not good for you Mind and that's Dangerous. I tried some stuff but i am glad i didn't do too much and i'm not doing it anymore , i just prefer things to Flow Naturally. Everybody will reach that "expanding" with time and our knowledge will get always bigger and bigger because when you get older you will learn to control yourself and know the person you are which that's really important, but not thanks to an artificial thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karan129 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 no +1 I suppose consciousness is the difference between being 'alive' and being 'sentient'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphythecat Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Not at all. Too much consciousness isn't a great thing socially. My expand of consciousness results for me, as some kind of a more auto-critical personality. I tend to observe my behaviors too much, which result sometime of a lack of "crazy" fun. Another thing that bothers me is the fact that i dont remember how i was BEFORE using all those hallucinogenic stuff, which i took quite often for a long time. I just can't remember Exactly how i was, and i have asked me a lot of question whether i am the same personn or not. I am a lot more philosophical than before, which is a good thing, but at the same time, tends too scare the shit out of me, going too far into my questioning sometimes. At the end of the day, freud went crazy trying to discover is inner feeling, and everyone who had really experiment with hallucinogen know the feeling when you kind of sensing like your loosing your head. It's a great thing, but theres limit, and i have a feeling like if the limit is trespassed, this is where you go nuts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphythecat Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Well...I wonder what we mean with 'expanding consciousness' in the first place. Couldn't it be defined as 'getting aware and thoroughly understanding the objective reality inside and outside yourself? If this topic is about mind altering drugs usage, I cannot really see any connection with the expansion of your consciousness. Drugs only create subjective experiences that do not match reality which can be objectivly verified. If this topic isn't about that, I can't really see any harm in being fully aware of reality as it is. Truth=virtue=happiness, and thus being aware of yourself and the world around you is a way of achieving happiness! What kind of experience are you talking about? what subjective experience? well, for me and my friends, with whom i did many and many trips, we all feel as if we changed a little bit because of the drugs. We had discussion about things in life on drugs, that affect me definitely now, some revelation happened to me, about our true self and everything. What do you mean by "you can not objectively verified"? I mean... your not in another complete dimension, you still know whats there and whats not, what you do and how you feel, for me, I've learned a lot about how i am, what i do with my life, why do i react this way or this way in a situation etc......What truth are you talking about? I'm trying to understand here, with or without drugs, i always kind of see the world just like before, the only thing that have changed, is how i feel, how i react, how i feel more connected with my GF, and how more fuckin scared i am from the death... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agneton Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I think you are mainly talking about perceptions and preferences of reality, not about reality 'as such'. In my definition of 'expanding consciousness' I was merely talking about empirically detectable stuff. I think emotions don't fall under this category, so what you're saying could be perfectly correct imo. To give a stupid example of what I mean, the speed of light is 299 792 458 m/s, regardless of my subjective experiences. When I take drugs, I could maybe get the impression that speed of light is actually less or more (yeah ok...should find a better example...). However, that would just be a subjective experience which has no empirical value. @ eudaimonia: I think those kind of "matrix"-approaches to reality are flawed. The best proof that those philosophers do not actually believe in their theories is the fact that "they'd have to doubt the effectiveness of using objective syntax, phonological, and morphological rules of the language that they use. Obviously, they don't doubt that effectiveness, leading them to write their arguments about the subjectivity of reality completely oblivious of the fact that they are dependent on the objectivity of human language to tell anyone else about it!" (quoted out of this thread: http://freedomainradio.com/BOARD/forums/p/21033/166144.aspx) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needle ninja Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Depends upon the person, some naturally acquire an expanded conscious. Most, however, are constrained by physical and social borders that greatly limit the extent to which the mind can perceive of the real world. Lies and misinformation play a role as well. They distort what a person thinks is real, but also how one can come to the truth. There is a reason that expanding consciousness is called a journey, it is because it almost always happens through great physical work and/or hardship. Also, physically travelling is the most common way to expand one's consciousness and one I recommend to anyone. Wisdom is like a one-way glass pane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWillHaltAllLoseEnds Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 OK for certain reasons higher consciousness is linked with blundering and weaker social ability, yes yes. The real question for me is, if you get to a high enough point, can you possibly overcome these weaknesses? If you are still retaining your strength of mind, can you have the best of both worlds? I already have a firm knowledge in every type of science, a few of the arts, politics, psychology, a pretty complete understanding of philosophy and religion, etc, so this is what I'm experimenting with now. I cannot say if it will work. Certainly it will be difficult, as most people learn a set of social skills at a young age and stick with that. I've been studying human social interactions lately. My goal is to be able to perfectly emulate any social persona I want to at will. It requires a certain voluntary insanity to even embark on this journey, which I have accepted now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWillHaltAllLoseEnds Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 back to the question if it good to "open your doors": for some people it may help to get aware of certain things and for "spiritual" self discovery ... But some people's doors are open enough and then it gets dangerous.... the irony is that the people who could use such and experience are not interested in it and the people who are "open" enough are interested in expanding more... Paradoxical I agree. Maybe it just separates the higher orders from the masses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyWillHaltAllLoseEnds Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 @ eudaimonia: I think those kind of "matrix"-approaches to reality are flawed. The best proof that those philosophers do not actually believe in their theories is the fact that "they'd have to doubt the effectiveness of using objective syntax, phonological, and morphological rules of the language that they use. Obviously, they don't doubt that effectiveness, leading them to write their arguments about the subjectivity of reality completely oblivious of the fact that they are dependent on the objectivity of human language to tell anyone else about it!" (quoted out of this thread: http://freedomainradio.com/BOARD/forums/p/21033/166144.aspx) I think you have a flawed view there. You should read Wittgenstein. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longloststar Posted November 27, 2009 Share Posted November 27, 2009 @ eudaimonia: I think those kind of "matrix"-approaches to reality are flawed. The best proof that those philosophers do not actually believe in their theories is the fact that "they'd have to doubt the effectiveness of using objective syntax, phonological, and morphological rules of the language that they use. Obviously, they don't doubt that effectiveness, leading them to write their arguments about the subjectivity of reality completely oblivious of the fact that they are dependent on the objectivity of human language to tell anyone else about it!" (quoted out of this thread: http://freedomainradio.com/BOARD/forums/p/21033/166144.aspx) I don't think eudaimonia was referring to any Matrix idea about reality, he was simply stating the common (and I would say plausible) Kantian idea that our perception of reality is limited by the categories of our brain (such as time and space.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffymushi Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 According to the Underground Man, excess consciousness is a disease. And I tend to agree with him. It weakens an organism and causes a lot of suffering. I can tell you from personal experience. Why do people name their tracks like "Expand Your Consciousness" and why do we listen to them? Do we not already have enough consciousness? Are we masochistic? Or are we doing it unwittingly.... there's a difference between "excess consciousness" & "expanded consciousness". similar to the difference between "drowning" & "swimming". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supergroover Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 My View on this matter is the following: -Drugs don't do good to anyone , because if you are a young person the drugs will give you that "expanding" which is the knowledge you will reach after a lot of years when you grow up . Reaching the knowledge really fast is not good for you Mind and that's Dangerous. I tried some stuff but i am glad i didn't do too much and i'm not doing it anymore , i just prefer things to Flow Naturally. Everybody will reach that "expanding" with time and our knowledge will get always bigger and bigger because when you get older you will learn to control yourself and know the person you are which that's really important, but not thanks to an artificial thing. Drugs might not be a good idea for youngsters but it sure can do a hell of a lot of good to grown ups if used wisely. Check maps for example. And tell then again that drugs don't do good to anyone. If you are refering to consciousness expansion only, than you might be partly right. I find it doesnt really help that much unless it is really used in a spiritual context. With a certain intention in mind, a good set and setting. But most often in the 'psychedelic' trance scene it is only used for fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrognomix Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Drugs might not be a good idea for youngsters but it sure can do a hell of a lot of good to grown ups if used wisely. Check maps for example. And tell then again that drugs don't do good to anyone. If you are refering to consciousness expansion only, than you might be partly right. I find it doesnt really help that much unless it is really used in a spiritual context. With a certain intention in mind, a good set and setting. But most often in the 'psychedelic' trance scene it is only used for fun. I really agree with you here. Throughout the history of culture the use of psychotropics for the expansion of consciousness was not only ritual but a huge factor in the development of various herbal medicines and understanding of a spiritual bond between all of us. "Expansion of consciousness" is a very vague term, but to me it is really nothing other than a good thing. To say it makes a person more introspective/antisocial would, to me, say that they are not truly expanding their consciousness... an expanded consciousness sees light in all things, achieves greater understanding of the human condition and would be able to relate, or at least tolerate, any social situation with much more empathy and compassion than a person who could be described as "closed-minded." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qa2pir Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 This depends so much on how you choose to define consciousness. I think as we age, we develop a sort of passive self-consciousness, because we get to know ourselves better and become more capable of handling our feelings and thoughts. It sucks to be young in this regard. I look forward to growing older. But there's also the aspect of "overthinking" which I am more readily disposed to interpret consciousness as. This phenomenon makes me reserved or overly open (depending on the situation; often in the polar opposites as to what would be considered normal), and sometimes shy. I also tend to analyze my own behaviour to the point where I no longer think I am worth existing. It goes the other way around too; I can also feel as if existence does not deserve me. Maybe I am a bit narcissistic in this regard - my self-confidence knows no greys. Maybe drifting a bit off topic since we were, I suppose, talking about drugs and music. But those are my very subjective cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amithaba_buddha Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Drugs might not be a good idea for youngsters but it sure can do a hell of a lot of good to grown ups if used wisely. Yes i can agree with you there. Thing is : why putting drugs when we can do it just by ourselves? Why changing someone's Life if maybe that Person is happy the way it is? i prefer to do everything just by myself , it will prove to me how great i am as a person and not needing something else for it. some people cannot find it in themselves that's why they go and try drugs and i perfectly understand. this is just my view of things. People put on drugs for several reasons and one of them might be they are lost but they want to find themselves in someway or could be just for fun aswel. It's not good for youngsters and for that i will quote a classic phrase that my parents always used to say : "when we are young we think we know it all , but we don't". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphythecat Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 My View on this matter is the following: -Drugs don't do good to anyone , because if you are a young person the drugs will give you that "expanding" which is the knowledge you will reach after a lot of years when you grow up . Reaching the knowledge really fast is not good for you Mind and that's Dangerous. I tried some stuff but i am glad i didn't do too much and i'm not doing it anymore , i just prefer things to Flow Naturally. Everybody will reach that "expanding" with time and our knowledge will get always bigger and bigger because when you get older you will learn to control yourself and know the person you are which that's really important, but not thanks to an artificial thing. -1000000000000000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphythecat Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Yes i can agree with you there. Thing is : why putting drugs when we can do it just by ourselves? Why changing someone's Life if maybe that Person is happy the way it is? i prefer to do everything just by myself , it will prove to me how great i am as a person and not needing something else for it. some people cannot find it in themselves that's why they go and try drugs and i perfectly understand. this is just my view of things. People put on drugs for several reasons and one of them might be they are lost but they want to find themselves in someway or could be just for fun aswel. It's not good for youngsters and for that i will quote a classic phrase that my parents always used to say : "when we are young we think we know it all , but we don't". I think you need to expand your consciousness!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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