Anoebis Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 The number one problem is the fact that you are a member of a label and you think the number one problem is downloading. Go think about who would know who if it wasn't for downloading. If labels had some kind of profit from their artists' live performances noone would bitch about downloads.I'm 100% sure about that. Downloading is not a problem,it's a reality you can do absolutely nothing about it and instead of thinking of it as the number one problem you should start thinking about how to actually take advantage of it. Edit: Rah wrote something about Warp & Bleep.This site is running for a long time now.Warp Records and some other IDM/Electronica labels are light years ahead of the psy-trance scene.Maybe someone should start having some examples. 652425[/snapback] First of all, I give 7 points where things go wrong, and my first sentence is there are so many reasons, so I'm not saying it is ALL because of mp3, but it is a big part... (imo) Second, well, how did people know about groups and labels before there was mp3? lol, its bull shit that people discover artists only because mp3, it is a good thing for some, but a bad thing for labels and artists... Sales dropped dramatically, so can you explain me why "by chance" the sales dropped at the moment mp3 became more popular, and that a cd now is a "good seller" when it reaches 1000 copies while 10 years ago 10.000 was good? Second, you can tell me how to take advantage of the mp3? should I sell on the Suntrip page? hahaha, how many would buy? Anyway, I said there are MANY reasons, and mp3 is one, but the mp3 changed the whole scene (as said by many others), simply because of the mp3 artists sold less, made more commercial music to get booked more etc,... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniël Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Downloading is not a problem,it's a reality you can do absolutely nothing about it and instead of thinking of it as the number one problem you should start thinking about how to actually take advantage of it. 652425[/snapback] well, you have a point there, but i'm in the middle. Can't know for sure. We could say peer to peer isn't destroying psytrance at all and is just functioning as a modern radio and free promotion. Buying MP3's on the net however is a great alternative to boxed CD's. Off course if it's cheaper, faster and doesn't come from russian sites. And the only cost the label has is the server. I think it would be very successfull in this scene where most of the CD's are sold online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Second, well, how did people know about groups and labels before there was mp3? lol, its bull shit that people discover artists only because mp3, it is a good thing for some, but a bad thing for labels and artists... DAT & tapes exchange btw i think the scene had already declined before p2p programms were widely used.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 well, you have a point there, but i'm in the middle. Can't know for sure. We could say peer to peer isn't destroying psytrance at all and is just functioning as a modern radio and free promotion. 652432[/snapback] No im not saying that mp3 isn't destroying psy-trance or any other music genre. Mass downloading is indeed a problem BUT it also has some advantages and it really depends on who is taking advantage of them and who isn't. Second, you can tell me how to take advantage of the mp3? should I sell on the Suntrip page? hahaha, how many would buy? Sounds funny yeah,why don't you start a research about it.I bet Suntrip would sell more online than offline. You need to understand that most of the people downloading don't do it because they don't have the money to buy at least 2-3 cds a month but because 1.it's easy 2.most people,like me,listen music exclusively on their pcs so they have to buy the album and then rip it (which makes bying the original quite pointless) 3.they are too bored to go to the records shop 4.it's much better to have the freedom to just get/buy one,two or three tracks from the cds and not the whole. Let's say you release a Suntrip comp.With a Ka-Sol track.I love Ka-Sol.I won't buy your comp for one track though,sorry mate.If you had a shop online,i'd buy it for 1 euro,it's nothing.And the story goes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 No im not saying that mp3 isn't destroying psy-trance or any other music genre. Mass downloading is indeed a problem BUT it also has some advantages and it really depends on who is taking advantage of them and who isn't. Sounds funny yeah,why don't you start a research about it.I bet Suntrip would sell more online than offline. You need to understand that most of the people downloading don't do it because they don't have the money to buy at least 2-3 cds a month but because 1.it's easy 2.most people,like me,listen music exclusively on their pcs so they have to buy the album and then rip it (which makes bying the original quite pointless) 3.they are too bored to go to the records shop 4.it's much better to have the freedom to just get/buy one,two or three tracks from the cds and not the whole. Let's say you release a Suntrip comp.With a Ka-Sol track.I love Ka-Sol.I won't buy your comp for one track though,sorry mate.If you had a shop online,i'd buy it for 1 euro,it's nothing.And the story goes on. 652436[/snapback] Research was done for that, we compared with some other sites etc, and it was not possible for a little label, it would cost too much btw; the payment is a big problem as wel, to allow payment by VISA on a site you have to pay... of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Research was done for that, we compared with some other sites etc, and it was not possible for a little label, it would cost too much btw; the payment is a big problem as wel, to allow payment by VISA on a site you have to pay... of course 652437[/snapback] Ok i agree,it's quite expensive to set it up. Why don't you try to gather some people around this idea like other labels in the same music style,artists or even some 'fans' that would and could help and build it with Suntrip as the main supporter. Or at least think about doing it. Im sure you know Spindrift already created something like that.Let's say,for example,you find someone that could help a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Ok i agree,it's quite expensive to set it up. Why don't you try to gather some people around this idea like other labels in the same music style,artists or even some 'fans' that would and could help and build it with Suntrip as the main supporter. Or at least think about doing it. Im sure you know Spindrift already created something like that.Let's say,for example,you find someone that could help a lot. 652438[/snapback] yeah, maybe one day... When my exams are finished and we have some more cds, then it would be an idea to do it... btw; don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about too little sales for Suntrip, in fact we are doing good enough for a break even which is everything I want! My biggest fear/comment from the mp3 is that it changed the music mostly... (so the other 6 points in my earlier post) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin OOOD Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 most people,like me,listen music exclusively on their pcs 652436[/snapback] That's a whacking great assumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 That's a whacking great assumption. 652440[/snapback] Thanks for your great contribution on the matter. But i guess you are selling enough,no need to worry. Actually yes,the 80% of the people i know only listen to music on mp3 format. The rest of them don't know how to rip audio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAH Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 what is missing is a digital distributor and that's what we intend on doing with element of time media. We are not the first ones and many people have already looked through that hole before, things will start moving in that direction eventually. based on our little research psy trance in mp3 form and wav form is not a major performer of online sales, talking about music that has already been released. Pressed music strangely enough is the first one to show up on p2p networks, while labels and physical distributors have to deal with the costs of pressing 500-1000 which seems to be the norm today. I say save that money, invested in more great music, get a kick ass graphic designer to make it pretty, ship it in a zip file and start selling digital. People will only realize this is a serious business model when they see serious labels and artists doing it... the question is, what are we waiting for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin OOOD Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Thanks for your great contribution on the matter. But i guess you are selling enough,no need to worry. Actually yes,the 80% of the people i know only listen to music on mp3 format. The rest of them don't know how to rip audio. 652441[/snapback] Most of the people I know listen to music on CD, whether it's purchased copies, copied from other people or burned MP3s. As for your other comment, I'll reply via PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goa Bill Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 The number one problem is the fact that you are a member of a label and you think the number one problem is downloading. Go think about who would know who if it wasn't for downloading. If labels had some kind of profit from their artists' live performances noone would bitch about downloads.I'm 100% sure about that. Downloading is not a problem,it's a reality you can do absolutely nothing about it and instead of thinking of it as the number one problem you should start thinking about how to actually take advantage of it. Edit: Rah wrote something about Warp & Bleep.This site is running for a long time now.Warp Records and some other IDM/Electronica labels are light years ahead of the psy-trance scene.Maybe someone should start having some examples. 652425[/snapback] I'd like to reinforce that and add that once people stop downloading psy mp3s the genre would be dead for real. And also that i personally bought well over hundred albums after having them on mp3. As with everything wrong nowadays it should be fixed with education and not with crusades. First of all, I give 7 points where things go wrong, and my first sentence is there are so many reasons, so I'm not saying it is ALL because of mp3, but it is a big part... (imo) Second, well, how did people know about groups and labels before there was mp3? lol, its bull shit that people discover artists only because mp3, it is a good thing for some, but a bad thing for labels and artists... Sales dropped dramatically, so can you explain me why "by chance" the sales dropped at the moment mp3 became more popular, and that a cd now is a "good seller" when it reaches 1000 copies while 10 years ago 10.000 was good? Second, you can tell me how to take advantage of the mp3? should I sell on the Suntrip page? hahaha, how many would buy? Anyway, I said there are MANY reasons, and mp3 is one, but the mp3 changed the whole scene (as said by many others), simply because of the mp3 artists sold less, made more commercial music to get booked more etc,... 652428[/snapback] Sales didn't drop dramatically, they have spreaded across hundreds of labels that appeared in the last 10 years. Actually makes sense no? what is missing is a digital distributor and that's what we intend on doing with element of time media. We are not the first ones and many people have already looked through that hole before, things will start moving in that direction eventually. based on our little research psy trance in mp3 form and wav form is not a major performer of online sales, talking about music that has already been released. Pressed music strangely enough is the first one to show up on p2p networks, while labels and physical distributors have to deal with the costs of pressing 500-1000 which seems to be the norm today. I say save that money, invested in more great music, get a kick ass graphic designer to make it pretty, ship it in a zip file and start selling digital. People will only realize this is a serious business model when they see serious labels and artists doing it... the question is, what are we waiting for? 652443[/snapback] Once again, spot on! Digital distributor that sells for fair price ie 1$ a track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supergroover Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 and at the same time sales of cd's went down there was a rather big dip in economy.. so the sales indeed did go down and were distributed among many many more labels than before.. The one study that i found (a while ago) on mp3 and sales concludes that its not changed much.. i have a pdf for those interested.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 and at the same time sales of cd's went down there was a rather big dip in economy.. so the sales indeed did go down and were distributed among many many more labels than before.. The one study that i found (a while ago) on mp3 and sales concludes that its not changed much.. i have a pdf for those interested.. 652504[/snapback] Please post the whole PDF here, I would really like to see it I have several friends running labels, and their sales have actually gone up somewhat since the mp3, and the fact that they started distributing their music on their own.... marketing also helps... a banner on psyshop hardly is marketting for me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 It seems like a typical mp3 discussion again, well, I said my point about that in the past already, but i'll say it again... mp3's aren't bad necessarely, because you can discover music like that... But then the next step should be: buy the music you like, whether it is via cd or mp3... Anyway, no comments about my other - Artists making music for a big audience so they get booked - Many labels trying to reach bigger public - The society who wants to be "hip" and very flashy/fast all the time and because of that demand a new music style every 2 years... (if you think about that, it is madness!) - Artists that make the same music for 10-15 years... They become unoriginal mostly - The scene that splitted, which means you have to fit in a certain formula - The djs: most of them spin only hits, and don't play "real" sets anymore... -... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unikos Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Most of the people I know listen to music on CD, whether it's purchased copies, copied from other people or burned MP3s. As for your other comment, I'll reply via PM. 652445[/snapback] colin you and your mates must be the exception... really! last time i met someone who exclusively listens to vinyls and cd's was someone whose home stereo is made of "lamps" and is worth 10,000 euros.. not your average psytrance enthusiast. even a mate who used to own a psy label (before realising that he cant afford to lose ALL his money) and owns a LOT of vinyls and cds, is predominantly using his laptop to play music, since its easy to find what you're looking for at any moment personally, i really think the future is with online sales (i've opened at least one topic in this before). cds are more expensive and plain wasteful. we all like the artwork, but why not have the option to get it for cheaper, already encoded in high quality format, etc, etc i consider myself to be lucky enough to have enough money to spend on the "pursuit of happines". but if i were to buy everything i wanted (from releases) i would end up bankrupt. it doesnt make sense to spend lets say 100 euros a month on music. soooo, i end up not buying anything! (okay, almost anything) conclusion: labels and artists need to realise that psytrancers are exactly the way gnome describes them (for the most part). we are too laCy to go to the record shop and since all want to have a huge collection, we cant afford/dont want to spend all our money on music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malevol3nt Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 You can find them because none label would release their music (there are always exceptions). LABELS CARE FOR THE MONEY AND NOT FOR THE MUSIC. 652074[/snapback] Then the obvious solution would be to make your own label, just like AP did, except this time you would be selling mp3's or better yet FLAC's.. Then all the money u get from selling your albums/tracks would actually go to your pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 some other points why cds better survive... -self burned cds are of less quality and will become unreadable much sooner (I have cds from 97 that were burned that I can't read anymore) while cds are better pressed... -If we ask 1€ for a track, it is MORE EXPENSIVE to download a cd then to buy it! Artwork, cd box and everything included... (we sell cds at 10€ new, or even 3 for 25€!) -How do you pay for downloads? As many know our scene has a large amount of young people... They are able to buy a new cd in a shop for 10€... but they can't buy online (no VISA/paypal), for older people it is different of course I do agree there may be a small market for people that want certain songs (so like you said the ka Sol from Apsara), but it's too small for a small label, if there are many labels like us willing to team up this may be a possibility, but I'm sure even then we won't see a penny, because the company selling our WAV's then will ask too much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 but I'm sure even then we won't see a penny, because the company selling our WAV's then will ask too much 652617[/snapback] u dont know that until you have tried it... I think labels are scared to go to a digital downloadable format (Dont take the next sentence wrong please!) its like the saying "What the farmer doesnt know, he doesnt eat!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 u dont know that until you have tried it... I think labels are scared to go to a digital downloadable format (Dont take the next sentence wrong please!) its like the saying "What the farmer doesnt know, he doesnt eat!" 652631[/snapback] Untill I what tried? get 18 downloads a month of 66 cent or something? lol... Also 70% of my arguments are getting ignored it seems Ah well, as long as I live I will keep buying and I will try to release cds anyway, for the reasons said above, and I know many people that think like that (just like Collin in fact) It is true that a part of the scene is online, but not all AT ALL, I know many people that buy alot of cds and never get on a forum or download, changing everything digital would leave 50% of the people in the cold... I even know trance people without a computer you know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 someone whose home stereo is made of "lamps" 652570[/snapback] best sound evarghh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Untill I what tried? get 18 downloads a month of 66 cent or something? lol... Also 70% of my arguments are getting ignored it seems Ah well, as long as I live I will keep buying and I will try to release cds anyway, for the reasons said above, and I know many people that think like that (just like Collin in fact) It is true that a part of the scene is online, but not all AT ALL, I know many people that buy alot of cds and never get on a forum or download, changing everything digital would leave 50% of the people in the cold... I even know trance people without a computer you know! 652642[/snapback] Anoebis, i know NO SINGLE PERSON that doesnat have a computer, and infact more and more of my friends download tracks on downloadshops. its growing. you get 66 cent for 18 downloads? or you mean that you get 66 cent per track that you get sold? How much does a CD get you after you deducted everything? And how much costs could you save by selling it digitally? (I know by the way) I will argue one point at the time, i dont have brains to think about the others at the moment, sorry mate Like I said, poor marketing is also a very key in the bad sales. A lot of labels do not market their things good enough. Oh shit, i dont feel like discussing this at all at the moment, can I be discluded again from the discussion? Nothing bad meant, but I really am not in the right state of mind to explain more deeply, and I dont contribute at all Sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackCheese Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 -How do you pay for downloads? As many know our scene has a large amount of young people... They are able to buy a new cd in a shop for 10€... but they can't buy online (no VISA/paypal), 652617[/snapback] Exactly! I'm glad you've mentioned this. Even though I'd want to support labels/artists who offer their music in mp3/wav form, it's not always possible, or rather, just not possible, for someone young like me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 Anoebis, i know NO SINGLE PERSON that doesnat have a computer, and infact more and more of my friends download tracks on downloadshops. its growing. you get 66 cent for 18 downloads? or you mean that you get 66 cent per track that you get sold? How much does a CD get you after you deducted everything? And how much costs could you save by selling it digitally? (I know by the way) I will argue one point at the time, i dont have brains to think about the others at the moment, sorry mate Like I said, poor marketing is also a very key in the bad sales. A lot of labels do not market their things good enough. Oh shit, i dont feel like discussing this at all at the moment, can I be discluded again from the discussion? Nothing bad meant, but I really am not in the right state of mind to explain more deeply, and I dont contribute at all Sorry! 652712[/snapback] well, I meant 66 cent * 18 anyway... I got your point, but as said above, I'm still standing behind cds 100%, even if the online market is growing, and that may means we have to do our sales partly via online downloads, but I will keep pressing the cds as well... Simply for people that like the medium cds and for people that don't download at all or have the possibility to pay online via VISA/Paypall whatever (and about the computer, even my own gf doesn't have internet, so it's not a far from my bed show... In facts I know tons of students that don't have internet altough that is the age music is the most important in your life) and the reason why you don't know anybody without a comp is probably because I am a student, 2 different age categories... face it, you are getting OLD and rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackCheese Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 but I will keep pressing the cds as well... Simply for people that like the medium cds and for people that don't download at all or have the possibility to pay online via VISA/Paypall whatever 652720[/snapback] Nice! I'd rather buy an original cd, with original covers/artwork/booklet etc., than buy-download the music and artwork, burn em on cdr and print the covers myself, or something. Wouldn't mind buying mp3/wav when it's just a single track, or something exclusive. But full albums? original cd anyday Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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