Time_Trap Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 It seems to me that the dark psychedelic trance you don't like, you baptize it as "darkpsy" and the rest as dark psychedelic trance, while in fact they belong to the same genre. Mind you I am not a hardcore darkpsy enthusiast,my favourite EMD is goa trance, but I keep my mind open so that I can spot some gems (BotfB,psykovsky,derango,electrypnose) and the rest of the stuff I may not find masterpieces but I could enjoy it on a party for half an hour max. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 It seems to me that the dark psychedelic trance you don't like, you baptize it as "darkpsy" and the rest as dark psychedelic trance, while in fact they belong to the same genre. That is not the case. What I call darkpsy is the stuff that people that are really into darkpsy, hail as the main/best/major music of the genre. All this stuff is very different to UX, BOTFB, X-Dream...etc who have made tunes that I consider psychedelic and dark, yet I do not call these tunes anything other than psy-trance (goa trance in the case of UX and BOTFB). For example, the difference in style, between psykovsky and X-Dream is extremely obvious. Some people call psykovsky's music darkpsy and X-Dream's music, psy-trance. I also call psykovsky's music darkpsy to distinguish it from the music that X-Dream make which is actually dark and psychedelic, to me, yet I also call X-Dream's music psy-trance Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mono Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8uSFGA8Gkc dark tune from 98 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronSun Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 It seems to me that the dark psychedelic trance you don't like, you baptize it as "darkpsy" and the rest as dark psychedelic trance, while in fact they belong to the same genre. Mind you I am not a hardcore darkpsy enthusiast,my favourite EMD is goa trance, but I keep my mind open so that I can spot some gems (BotfB,psykovsky,derango,electrypnose) and the rest of the stuff I may not find masterpieces but I could enjoy it on a party for half an hour max. Imo you really can't group psykovsky and BotfB together, you can do that with derango and electrypnose, but BotfB doesn't belong in there. Listen to them again, and then to the likes of psykovsky, totally different... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 That is not the case. What I call darkpsy is the stuff that people that are really into darkpsy, hail as the main/best/major music of the genre. All this stuff is very different to UX, BOTFB, X-Dream...etc who have made tunes that I consider psychedelic and dark, yet I do not call these tunes anything other than psy-trance (goa trance in the case of UX and BOTFB). For example, the difference between Derango and X-Dream is extremely obvious. Peace out. BOTFB have made enough goa trance(more characteristic example I can think of is the track Mr. Fantastic) or , generally, psy tracks with goa elements with them, but no track is goa trance in Demonoizer album, if you have heard. All of the artists I listed are different from each other, as they have their own characteristic sound. I agree that the difference between Derango and X-Dream is extremely obvious.But, to add to this: the difference between BOTFB and X-Dream is extremely obvious. the difference between BOTFB and Psykovsky is extremely obvious. the difference between Derango and Psykovsky is extremely obvious. the difference between Electrypnose and Psykovsky is extremely obvious. Imo you really can't group psykovsky and BotfB together, you can do that with derango and electrypnose, but BotfB doesn't belong in there. Listen to them again, and then to the likes of psykovsky, totally different... I think the above replies to you too. I agree they are very different, but both create dark night psytrance music. Psykovsky and Electrypnose sound equally different to me too, as I implied in the examples above. For me all of the above have made dark psychedelic trance. Also, since many say that 'darkpsy' trance producers have no talent, you should check Electrypnose's downtempo/psychil/IDM album Subliminal Melanchoolies or Psyfactor's Endless Universe. That's how I like to respond to invalid arguments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 BOTFB have made enough goa trance(more characteristic example I can think of is the track Mr. Fantastic) or , generally, psy tracks with goa elements with them, but no track is goa trance in Demonoizer album, if you have heard.It crosses over a lot though. Call it psy-trance with Goa influences, Goa with psy-trance influences, its all the same to me as I am not fussed about subgenre names. All of the artists I listed are different from each other, as they have their own characteristic sound.Agreed. I agree that the difference between Derango and X-Dream is extremely obvious.But, to add to this: the difference between BOTFB and X-Dream is extremely obvious. Yes, although they both have made dark and psychedelic tunes. the difference between BOTFB and Psykovsky is extremely obvious.Agreed, although only BOFTB's tunes sound psychedelic and dark to me. the difference between Derango and Psykovsky is extremely obvious. the difference between Electrypnose and Psykovsky is extremely obvious. Agreed. None of which have made music that is dark and psychedelic to me. I think the above replies to you too. I agree they are very different, but both create dark night psytrance music. Psykovsky and Electrypnose sound equally different to me too, as I implied in the examples above. For me all of the above have made dark psychedelic trance. Disagree as I don't find their music psychedelic, nor dark. Also, since many say that 'darkpsy' trance producers have no talent, you should check Electrypnose's downtempo/psychil/IDM album Subliminal Melanchoolies or Psyfactor's Endless Universe. That's how I like to respond to invalid arguments. I haven't heard their downtempo music. I generally don't listen to chill out when I want something chilled out playing at home. I do not think they have no talent, I think that they don't make good psychedelic dance music...imo always...even psykovsky's last album has mixes that are a proper mess at some points...but then again some people like all these amounts of dissonant noise. I don't. Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 It crosses over a lot though. Call it psy-trance with Goa influences, Goa with psy-trance influences, its all the same to me as I am not fussed about subgenre names. I will just reply to this , for the last part we agree to disagree and it can't change I am afraid. Well no, Demonoizer doesn't cross over to goa, although some/most of their earliest work does. At least according to my perception. D-Dave can confirm or reject it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 I will just reply to this , for the last part we agree to disagree and it can't change I am afraid. Well no, Demonoizer doesn't cross over to goa, although some/most of their earliest work does. At least according to my perception. D-Dave can confirm or reject it.. I fully get the Goa vibe from that "primetimeslime" track I posted in this thread. Not the classic old school leads, but the riffs, FX and triplet bassline make me think of good ol' goa trance. It just sounds more "modern" cause its mixed better..oh and has a loud kick drum Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 It would be fantastic to have opinions from real DP producers, from both sides (the 5% "horror" D-Dave mentioned and the "comedy horror" someone mentioned). It is a pity that the likes of Mubali, Psykovsky, Sychotria are not here to say what they have on their minds when they write a track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 It would be fantastic to have opinions from real DP producers, from both sides (the 5% "horror" D-Dave mentioned and the "comedy horror" someone mentioned). It is a pity that the likes of Mubali, Psykovsky, Sychotria are not here to say what they have on their minds when they write a track. Maybe if they hang out in isratrance someone should send this topic ? By the way Mubali is a member here, had posted some posts in the past, seemed like a cool guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Dave Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Uff. Yes, some BotFB tracks have the horribly loud bassdrum, I know, and I'm sorry. I'm quite relieved however to say that Primetimeslime is not my track, it is made by Magnus. And yeah, Reversed Vertigo is pretty much a standard full-on crap one note bassline, but there are sounds in it you would never hear from any progressive/full-on/minimal/darkpsy producer so I cant be too bothered. Even though we try to go our own way, it's hard to not become influenced by where the rest of the genre is going. When you play live and you constantly have a weaker kickdrum than everyone else, you kind of have to adjust that. But our influences does not come from a single band or musical style so yeah, you will hear all sorts of things in our music. There are funky buddha-tracks, there are techno-ish buddha-tracks, there are minimal, maximal, morning music, night music, progressive, goa, psytrance, scary, noisy, industrial, breakbeats, australian-style, psychedelic, melodic, blissful and just plain stupid tracks. You can tell the individual songs apart, which is more than you can say about most full-on or darkpsy acts. If any of you call BotFB darkpsy btw, I'm personally gonna haunt you for a hundred years... And isn't it funny that BotFB coined the term forest trance as well? Founders of forest trance someone says. Or not, since we learned everything there is to know about music in the forest by Dj Jonas (Stone Age Records) and Ulf from Örebro, but yes, many tracks should be played in the forest, with 4 stacks of speakers that let the music meet in the middle of the dancefloor. No bouncing sounds from any walls, no limit on the effects you can put on the sounds or even the entire mix. Can't be arsed if you call BotFB goa or psytrance though, to me it's basically the same. Yeah goa may refer more to the old school style of psytrance, I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Dave Posted May 6, 2011 Share Posted May 6, 2011 Simple to do, yes, but not necessarily simple to do well. IMO nobody has done it as well as KDD did on his first album, and many have surely tried. I'm not arguing with you, I agree it's hard to do well. No one would be happier than me if more people actually refrained from trying to make, and fail to do, such music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted May 6, 2011 Author Share Posted May 6, 2011 Maybe if they hang out in isratrance someone should send this topic ? By the way Mubali is a member here, had posted some posts in the past, seemed like a cool guy. I don't know. This topic has been very informative here. You know what kind of exchanges happen in IT when we discuss 'dark psy' there. It usually turns into Battle of Dark Psy versus the rest of the Galaxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted May 7, 2011 Share Posted May 7, 2011 It's seems this topic is more about 'what is your personal definition of dark psytrance. I did not read all of it, but this my experience. We had some pioneer artist who created a dark goatrance atmosphere like Darshan, Sandman, Cydonia. But that's not Dark psytrance. Even Xenomorph - Trip Horror single 1997 is still Dark Goatrance to me. Cassandra's Nightmare (1998) is more like it but still. The same for X-dream. Then around the millennium some Psytek, others called it psychedelic techno like the Delta, midi miliz ect... came around and I experienced for the first time that as Dark Trance. Not only the Atmosphere was dark but this was underground basement trance. The production was obvious meant to be dark! A very dark baseline combined with not overloaded sound. Back then progressive did a better job when it came to a dark atmosphere imo. But that's pure taste, and a bit off topic. I took me until 2004, when I first heard Kindzadza debut release that I noticed how Dark psychedelic trance evolved huge and created a larger psychedelic pattern. Although I'm not into dark psychedelic trance I have to admit they make some perfect psychedelic stuff that no melodic goatrance artist ever obtained. The fact is that it's pure psychedelic. Meaning that the accent or emphasis is 100% based on how psychedelic can we go! Sometimes it is, what it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynhamsui Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I personally believe that Psykovsky can't be compared to any other artist that are labeled as "dark psychedelic trance", Psykovsky is probably the only one who reached the goal of understanding what this genre is and how you should express it, if you want to. Yes, Kindzadza appeared first, 2004, I personally love that album but I can't consider it dark, it is not trying to be dark either. Yes you got UX's Master of the Universe, that's not dark psychedelic trance, that's an attempt, I'm not writing about the quality of the album, I'm just referring to it's genre, which is psychedelic trance imo. Psykovsky's music is the only dark psychedelic trance so far imo. And again, this is just how I see it, definitions tend to be personal most of the times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 I personally believe that Psykovsky can't be compared to any other artist that are labeled as "dark psychedelic trance", Psykovsky is probably the only one who reached the goal of understanding what this genre is and how you should express it, if you want to. Yes, Kindzadza appeared first, 2004, I personally love that album but I can't consider it dark, it is not trying to be dark either. Yes you got UX's Master of the Universe, that's not dark psychedelic trance, that's an attempt, I'm not writing about the quality of the album, I'm just referring to it's genre, which is psychedelic trance imo. Psykovsky's music is the only dark psychedelic trance so far imo. And again, this is just how I see it, definitions tend to be personal most of the times. Indeed, But from my perspective 'What is Dark' will always be influenced by the fact 'Where do we come from?'. Melodic goatrance in the early 90's. Then. Kindzadza is dark imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ynhamsui Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 Indeed, But from my perspective 'What is Dark' will always be influenced by the fact 'Where do we come from?. Melodic goatrance in the early 90's. c Then. Kindzadza is dark imo. Agreed. That is why I hate calling names to things when it comes to music. Genres and sub genres names are just not accurate enough, music evolutes through different paths, they sure are sometimes connected and influenced by each other but the "genre" itself is in a constant mutation and it comes down to "where do YOU think we have came from?" Kindzadza surely can be dark, based on what I have just said. I just believe people give too much power to genre quotations. I do find them very useful and logic though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted May 9, 2011 Share Posted May 9, 2011 "where do YOU think we have came from?" That is not my opinion, but based on a database of releases and reviews. More a general truth imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Procyon Posted May 9, 2011 Author Share Posted May 9, 2011 Agreed. That is why I hate calling names to things when it comes to music. Genres and sub genres names are just not accurate enough, music evolutes through different paths, they sure are sometimes connected and influenced by each other but the "genre" itself is in a constant mutation and it comes down to "where do YOU think we have came from?" Kindzadza surely can be dark, based on what I have just said. I just believe people give too much power to genre quotations. I do find them very useful and logic though I disagree 100%. Imperfect as it may be, naming genres and sub-genres is a sign that a certain music, be it rock, electronic or whatever, has reached a point of maturity enough to need to branch out. Take rock for instance, as a businessman, or as a fan, you certainly can't line-up Lordi and Aerosmith in the same arena. They certainly have their hard-fans who can listen to other groups similar to them, but you hardly will see their fans crossing the line. The same applies to psytrance. There are different schools under the umbrellas called 'psy' and 'goa', certainly they do not sound the same. Out of curiosity, if KDD for you is not dark, then what is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyfactor Posted June 19, 2011 Share Posted June 19, 2011 Also, since many say that 'darkpsy' trance producers have no talent, you should check Electrypnose's downtempo/psychil/IDM album Subliminal Melanchoolies or Psyfactor's Endless Universe. That's how I like to respond to invalid arguments. ehehe yaeh even more than this)))) http://soundcloud.com/user6228840/voda-feat-perlos-zatopi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2kijad Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I personally believe that Psykovsky can't be compared to any other artist that are labeled as "dark psychedelic trance", Psykovsky is probably the only one who reached the goal of understanding what this genre is and how you should express it, if you want to. Yes, Kindzadza appeared first, 2004, I personally love that album but I can't consider it dark, it is not trying to be dark either. Yes you got UX's Master of the Universe, that's not dark psychedelic trance, that's an attempt, I'm not writing about the quality of the album, I'm just referring to it's genre, which is psychedelic trance imo. Psykovsky's music is the only dark psychedelic trance so far imo. And again, this is just how I see it, definitions tend to be personal most of the times. good one. there is not much darkpsy in fact. sound to render the true essence of natural fractality blabla. BUT i would have said same about Enichkin. real Dark psy is yet to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 There was a lot of dark psytrance and even Goa in the early 90's. So no dark did not come from melodic Goa as someone suggest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkarbiter Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 More generally Darkpsy is an excuse for lame music creation and drug abuse (usually both). This just in: Newschool goa is too shit to take drugs to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 This just in: Newschool goa is too shit to take drugs too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exotic Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 This just in: Newschool goa is too shit to take drugs too I guess you havent heard the new artifact303 then. as good as the best dark psy out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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