Guest Elysium Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Yes because it was fresh. Trance for the first time. With full-on it got kinda fresh again and could bring a lot of money again although it didn't sound like Goa many of the old artists/labels turned into making/releasing full-on. 423646[/snapback] what i meant was that in the good old days people bought the music (and a lot lot of music), we were not so many in the "competition" to get the gigs which also made the booking fees very very high. Basically it was one huge money machine. And paid far better than 99.9% artists get paid today. Who can go to a label today and get EURO 900-1000 in advance for one track on a compilation and also afterwards get very good royalties paid out? Not many artists get that today. Now I do not say we were in the game for the money. Not at all. I can only speak for myself. I was in for the experience, the music and the travelling. But I have no problem admitting that many many of us did more money a month than a Managing Director did. I hardly see that today where artists basically only make a little money out of gigs. And lets be real here. It's not many that can have an income like IM and some very few other artists who succeeded to establish themself so successful. most artists in todays scene make peanuts. So again it's a wrong assumption to think that artists make a lot of money today... we dont! Some might thought they would by making Fullon etc. But it's very easy today to see that if you want to make money out of your music then do not make psytrance, goa, fullon, progressive etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taika-Kim Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Just something very interesting I've noted: There seems to be a lot of really young people listening to my music... I've got feedback even from people under 16 & so, so there's no way they probably even know what goa is/was... I've noticed in some parties with a lot of young (under 20) people that oldschool goa really gets them going. To them some GNOTR might actually be a fresh sound! And let's remember that records used to have a lot more dynamics those days so at best they sound really GREAT on loud soundsystems, especially outside... There's people who love my music, and don't even know what psychedelic trance really is! I think that this is a proof that even goa style music can be fresh & interesting to people these days Also lately in general in Finland I've heard a LOT of goa influences in Finnish music & people seem to like it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Just something very interesting I've noted: There seems to be a lot of really young people listening to my music... I've got feedback even from people under 16 & so, so there's no way they probably even know what goa is/was... I've noticed in some parties with a lot of young (under 20) people that oldschool goa really gets them going. To them some GNOTR might actually be a fresh sound! And let's remember that records used to have a lot more dynamics those days so at best they sound really GREAT on loud soundsystems, especially outside... There's people who love my music, and don't even know what psychedelic trance really is! I think that this is a proof that even goa style music can be fresh & interesting to people these days 423666[/snapback] nobody said it could not be fresh but I still say that Goa is "has been" and wont come back as a dominating genre.. People and the world has changed and new music come along. Thats evolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halosian Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 what i meant was that in the good old days people bought the music (and a lot lot of music), we were not so many in the "competition" to get the gigs which also made the booking fees very very high. Basically it was one huge money machine. And paid far better than 99.9% artists get paid today. Who can go to a label today and get EURO 900-1000 in advance for one track on a compilation and also afterwards get very good royalties paid out? Not many artists get that today. Now I do not say we were in the game for the money. Not at all. I can only speak for myself. I was in for the experience, the music and the travelling. But I have no problem admitting that many many of us did more money a month than a Managing Director did. I hardly see that today where artists basically only make a little money out of gigs. And lets be real here. It's not many that can have an income like IM and some very few other artists who succeeded to establish themself so successful. most artists in todays scene make peanuts. So again it's a wrong assumption to think that artists make a lot of money today... we dont! Some might thought they would by making Fullon etc. But it's very easy today to see that if you want to make money out of your music then do not make psytrance, goa, fullon, progressive etc. 423664[/snapback] Ok, I see your point. The competition has increased today when almost everyone can do music for a minor cost. It sets higher demands on the artists music if they want to earn enough money to be able to live on their music. Also the mp3 piracy makes it harder to make a profit. But the issue was why Goa was abandoned. And I think it was. In the beginning Goa was fresh, not many had experienced trancemusic. So it was popular and had a great demand. Only a couple of years later full-on was invented and suddenly everyone went on that train. And because the Goascene was so small (compared to the rockscene for example) it was much more vulnerable in such changes and so it nearly died out. That's why I used the expresssion abandoned since everyone wanted to make/release full-on when it was introduced even most of the artists/labels who previously released Goa. If it was the money or not who drove them to do that, let that be unsaid. The scene was/is so small so it's unavoidable that such huge changes doesn't affect it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Ok, I see your point. The competition has increased today when almost everyone can do music for a minor cost. It sets higher demands on the artists music if they want to earn enough money to be able to live on their music. Also the mp3 piracy makes it harder to make a profit. I would not say that. On the contrary I see less demand for high quality music. I mean, and this is my very personal opinion. IM high standard? Not according to my opinion. In my opinion it's all to do with how well you promote yourself now and how fast the music is to support the chemicals in kids brains (no offense to young people). It's not about the quality of the music. But the issue was why Goa was abandoned. And I think it was. In the beginning Goa was fresh, not many had experienced trancemusic. So it was popular and had a great demand. Only a couple of years later full-on was invented and suddenly everyone went on that train. And because the Goascene was so small (compared to the rockscene for example) it was much more vulnerable in such changes and so it nearly died out. That's why I used the expresssion abandoned since everyone wanted to make/release full-on when it was introduced even most of the artists/labels who previously released Goa. If it was the money or not who drove them to do that, let that be unsaid. The scene was/is so small so it's unavoidable that such huge changes doesn't affect it. 423691[/snapback] Can we call it psychedelic trance? Because the Goa trance "name" basically arrived in a commerical way with the UK wave of artists in late 1996. The psychedelic trance that was played in Goa was never called Goa trance before much later I still do not agree. I do not see it as anything to do with being vulnerable or people abandoning anything. I believe all ideas was used up and people needed to find new paths and to do new music. I can only take it from myself. I would be so bored and totally out of music in a second if I had to make goa or psy one more time. You have to remember that we did a lot of Goa or psychedelic trance in a very short time and that at some point artists need to do other things to be able to move on and maintain the creative flow. It's got to do with the fact that you simply can not keep repeating yourself over and over again as an artist... You need new fresh blood or you will die out as an musician. And let's be honest. How much more can we explore Goa or psy without becoming a cliché? It's all been done over and over again and that's in my opinion why new artists that try to re-create the old sound fail. It's all been done a 1000 times before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halosian Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 I would not say that. On the contrary I see less demand for high quality music. I mean, and this is my very personal opinion. IM high standard? Not according to my opinion. In my opinion it's all to do with how well you promote yourself now and how fast the music is to support the chemicals in kids brains (no offense to young people). It's not about the quality of the music. 423715[/snapback] Yes I agree. Can we call it psychedelic trance? Because the Goa trance "name" basically arrived in a commerical way with the UK wave of artists in late 1996. The psychedelic trance that was played in Goa was never called Goa trance before much later I still do not agree. I do not see it as anything to do with being vulnerable or people abandoning anything. I believe all ideas was used up and people needed to find new paths and to do new music. I can only take it from myself. I would be so bored and totally out of music in a second if I had to make goa or psy one more time. You have to remember that we did a lot of Goa or psychedelic trance in a very short time and that at some point artists need to do other things to be able to move on and maintain the creative flow. It's got to do with the fact that you simply can not keep repeating yourself over and over again as an artist... You need new fresh blood or you will die out as an musician. And let's be honest. How much more can we explore Goa or psy without becoming a cliché? It's all been done over and over again and that's in my opinion why new artists that try to re-create the old sound fail. It's all been done a 1000 times before. 423715[/snapback] (if it's ok I'll continue calling it Goa since I mean melodious psychedelic trance which is what this thread is all about. Besides it's easier/faster writing Goa) It's probably so that psytrance has an eagerly need for reinventing itself since it is a very experimential music in itself compared to for example rock music. It all has to do with the people who needs and likes this music. Most rockers likes the way rock music has always sounded so it's still popular the way it was. Psytrance has a wide group of people wanting/needing it to evolve. But at the same time there are people like I who wants it to still be Goalike but would also like it if it evolved a bit aswell. I don't care if another I.F.O will be released I would like it anyway. Still it would be nice if it had some new elements to it aswell. Not necessarily needing so and I think a lot of people will agree on me on this. The thing is (and I still think so) the difference between rock and psytrance is that the scene is so small so the amount of people like me wanting oldschool is fewer now when many oldschoolers has turned to full-on instead. Therefor no one sees that there's still an interest in this music. I don't think Goa will ever die (sure evolve like it has already done in many of these new artists music). It was/is too unique for that. Rockmusic didn't die. Is rock so much better then Goa? No, it has to do with the amount of people demanding it if it will survive and us few still producing/releasing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riton Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Im 19. And as of right now, nothing gets to me more than old school goa classics. Right now i've been hooked for a week on Sarolta Monspart's "All New Arrivals"... I mean come on, that is what, 96/97? I was 10 back then... Id give a lot to go back in time... bah... what can i say... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopie Posted January 24, 2006 Share Posted January 24, 2006 Also lately in general in Finland I've heard a LOT of goa influences in Finnish music & people seem to like it! 423666[/snapback] Matti Nykänen goes goa eh? I think he would have a chance, I mean the guy's a miracle maker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeros Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 Im 19. And as of right now, nothing gets to me more than old school goa classics. This stands out to me, I'm rather young in comparison to everyone here as well, and I've heard plenty of both oldschool goa and full-on and there is nothing that I see as unique or original in full-on as there is in goa. My attitude towards it is the same as everyones here. You don't need to listen to goa for 5 years to know that... my deal is that there is so much great GOA out there that I'm wondering why it ever went away, over here in California where I live, the small amount of goa parties going on at raves here, or I should say, the REAL psytrance parties going on are DJing oldschool goa more than track-after-track of the same full-on junk I'm hearing elsewhere. Now don't get me wrong, the scene over here is non-existant besides for a few die-hards and DJs striving to introduce it to people (E-Motion, hehe). It seems to me the commercialism and the sinking money boat of psytrance is trying to save itself by selling this one formula of full-on that seems to work out in parties today and is too afraid to hash into something new and original because people won't buy it. People've said it many times here, labels are releasing full-on because thats what sells, but what are you going to do when everyone else catches on and stops buying it (well, start making darkpsy but aside from that ) I mean I accept the fact how that sound is not going to come back, but I don't like how its not going to be tried again or evolved, a sound can die out but a style cannot. The energy and feeling shouldn't be limited to a few eastern melody scales and a TB-303 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3lirious Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 well... I think we just need to check at how many people are registered to Isratrance and compare it to Psynews to see the problem for olschool. I guess there´s just no real market for it anymore. Sure there will always be a few young people popping up that like it. As Taika Kim said Goa still is alive and kicking but it is not the kind of music for masses that Fullon is. Not anymore... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aeros Posted January 25, 2006 Author Share Posted January 25, 2006 Well...lets not forget psynews grew 2,500 members in the past year... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D3lirious Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Well...lets not forget psynews grew 2,500 members in the past year... 424166[/snapback] Well I still consider that pretty few in terms of record sale...Or even a big party. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 Well...lets not forget psynews grew 2,500 members in the past year... 424166[/snapback] It's not all people on psynews that want goa back and a lot of the members here are not really active members so you can not use the member count to prove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qa2pir Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 How come people like that boring bassline anyway? If i didn't know, i would've guessed that melodies à la Astral Projection would appeal more to the people than a repetitive bassline with some sound effects and a climax, 2 full pop songs into the song. Weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbierabbit Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I've been a long-time psy follower. The way I see it, this happens to every single thing which begins as a niche: more people get involved. Alex Garland's The Beach nails it very well when the Beach members try so desperately to keep its location a secret. People dilute anything. It's natural. I'm not saying Psy should be a closed underground top secret ultra-hush-hush affair. It's just something that I've seen happen to all good things which start out small. When the numbers--money, producers, buyers--increase, the quality is affected. You'll probably disagree with me, but the main reason Goa or Psy has become so dull (apart from a few genuine, surprisingly good songs every now and then) is the same reason Rock music, as a genuine art, died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted January 25, 2006 Share Posted January 25, 2006 I've been a long-time psy follower. The way I see it, this happens to every single thing which begins as a niche: more people get involved. Alex Garland's The Beach nails it very well when the Beach members try so desperately to keep its location a secret. People dilute anything. It's natural. I'm not saying Psy should be a closed underground top secret ultra-hush-hush affair. It's just something that I've seen happen to all good things which start out small. When the numbers--money, producers, buyers--increase, the quality is affected. You'll probably disagree with me, but the main reason Goa or Psy has become so dull (apart from a few genuine, surprisingly good songs every now and then) is the same reason Rock music, as a genuine art, died. 425061[/snapback] that's true... when something spreads it's almost inevitable that it's magic is also lost to an extent and is certainly affected[to the worse].. same thing you can notice in other music genres as well[e.g hiphop] good thing is that still there are still artists that "keep it real" and still produce as you say "genuine art", it's just that it's kind of hidden in a pile of crap... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted January 26, 2006 Share Posted January 26, 2006 I've been a long-time psy follower. The way I see it, this happens to every single thing which begins as a niche: more people get involved. Alex Garland's The Beach nails it very well when the Beach members try so desperately to keep its location a secret. People dilute anything. It's natural. I'm not saying Psy should be a closed underground top secret ultra-hush-hush affair. It's just something that I've seen happen to all good things which start out small. When the numbers--money, producers, buyers--increase, the quality is affected. You'll probably disagree with me, but the main reason Goa or Psy has become so dull (apart from a few genuine, surprisingly good songs every now and then) is the same reason Rock music, as a genuine art, died. 425061[/snapback] agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taika-Kim Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 And one thing: people here talk about psy as it is/ should be somehow very musical. I don't fully get this... I think trance is functional music, intended to help create a certain state of mind. Here's some very interesting read about one man's thoughts into the theory of trance inducing thought/ sensation patterns: I think there are still IMMENSE possibilities in real TRANCE sound as opposed to just musical ideas hung around the trance frame of sound... If you get what I'm trying to say... My music is not definitely like that. I like to put musical ideas and "hit" parts in songs, but lately I've really been thinking a lot about the idea of music that would really be as trance inducing as possible. I think at best trance tunes would be unrecognisable. There would be just a flow of music. I've been to some drumming ceremonies and such, and there isn't really pieces of music like there are at typical trance parties. There's just this relentless drumming, chanting & so on, built around some simple ideas that are modulated & morphed in time... You can't really say where some idea or some musical element begins or ends, it's really a dynamic process between the musicians & dancers. The problem with electronic music is of course, that there can't really be such an interplay between the dancers and the musicians. In an co-operative situation like this, the way pepole dance can change the way he people play the music, and vice versa. Every small thing somebody does, is immediately reflected in the whole in some way. Think of a flock of birds that seem to move in perfect harmony, but in face there IS no leader in the flock, the individuals are just reflecting each others actions back and forth... Also I'm tired of the artist mentality, I have never seen what's the point of having lives hows for example, when usually the tunes come from a CD (or some other [at least mostly] pre-rendered medium) anyway. I've been booked to play over the world this year, and I never really undestand why? I tell everybody they could just play my CD, but they still want me to have there. It's nice to travel of course so I go, but I just don't see the point. I think the DJ booth/playing space should be demolished & hidden, so there would jus be the music and the people. The floor plan of the parties should always be such, that there would be no central focus that would pull the people to face always the same direction... I think DJs / live PAs should bever be announced beforehand, just the style of music that would be played... All this artist mentality is a form of person worship, something that I find completely unaccectable in the world. OK, shoot me, I'm an idealist detached from reality, but I only write what I really feel would be healthy for the culture (also in more broad terms than just some techno parties). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 And one thing: people here talk about psy as it is/ should be somehow very musical. I don't fully get this... I think trance is functional music, intended to help create a certain state of mind. Here's some very interesting read about one man's thoughts into the theory of trance inducing thought/ sensation patterns: I think there are still IMMENSE possibilities in real TRANCE sound as opposed to just musical ideas hung around the trance frame of sound... If you get what I'm trying to say... My music is not definitely like that. I like to put musical ideas and "hit" parts in songs, but lately I've really been thinking a lot about the idea of music that would really be as trance inducing as possible. I think at best trance tunes would be unrecognisable. There would be just a flow of music. I've been to some drumming ceremonies and such, and there isn't really pieces of music like there are at typical trance parties. There's just this relentless drumming, chanting & so on, built around some simple ideas that are modulated & morphed in time... You can't really say where some idea or some musical element begins or ends, it's really a dynamic process between the musicians & dancers. The problem with electronic music is of course, that there can't really be such an interplay between the dancers and the musicians. In an co-operative situation like this, the way pepole dance can change the way he people play the music, and vice versa. Every small thing somebody does, is immediately reflected in the whole in some way. Think of a flock of birds that seem to move in perfect harmony, but in face there IS no leader in the flock, the individuals are just reflecting each others actions back and forth... Also I'm tired of the artist mentality, I have never seen what's the point of having lives hows for example, when usually the tunes come from a CD (or some other [at least mostly] pre-rendered medium) anyway. I've been booked to play over the world this year, and I never really undestand why? I tell everybody they could just play my CD, but they still want me to have there. It's nice to travel of course so I go, but I just don't see the point. I think the DJ booth/playing space should be demolished & hidden, so there would jus be the music and the people. The floor plan of the parties should always be such, that there would be no central focus that would pull the people to face always the same direction... I think DJs / live PAs should bever be announced beforehand, just the style of music that would be played... All this artist mentality is a form of person worship, something that I find completely unaccectable in the world. OK, shoot me, I'm an idealist detached from reality, but I only write what I really feel would be healthy for the culture (also in more broad terms than just some techno parties). 428472[/snapback] well live mixing is very different that digital mixing...some can do both some only one(digital most of the times) good djs ispire the crowd,and give that extra vibe and excitement!!! on the other hand sometimes they tottaly destroy the parties,by behaving like,am here cz they paid me,you people suck,am counting the minutes to leave this place...(tiesto did this in my country) imo djs must perform but they musnt be taken as gods! its the ravers that make the rave not the dj!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niobium Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 well live mixing is very different that digital mixing...some can do both some only one(digital most of the times) good djs ispire the crowd,and give that extra vibe and excitement!!! on the other hand sometimes they tottaly destroy the parties,by behaving like,am here cz they paid me,you people suck,am counting the minutes to leave this place...(tiesto did this in my country) imo djs must perform but they musnt be taken as gods! its the ravers that make the rave not the dj!!!! 428474[/snapback] GOA = AGO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 how fast the music is to support the chemicals in kids brains ah I totally agree with that. You see, for me oldschool was something that could be just as apreciated by people when sober as when high. However most of the stuff being released today gives me the feeling that it's just made to be listened to when high. And when you're high let's face it, a super-fast bassline and some repetitive sounds here and there, preferably with a tension-release somewhere in the middle are all you need to get you going (= THE full-on formula...). The quality of the music itself isn't really relevant except when you get back home and want to listen to the track again. So if ALL you want is to make music for the dancefloor then why bother spending weeks making a quality track anyway? The amount of time spent on it will probably be less than it's actual life-span in DJ's cases. To give a better example, I'm really not a big fan of full-on, but when I'm high it seems the best. But I get back in my normal state and think WTF did I see in that awful crap??? Anyway IMO as far as trance-inducing goes, dark psy is the way to go. It doesn't give the same feeling as oldschool at all but listen to it LOUD and man it really makes you forget what planet you're on... well at least for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 To give a better example, I'm really not a big fan of full-on, but when I'm high it seems the best naaah i still prefer goa when high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 naaah i still prefer goa when high ah I think I expressed myself badly. Of course that if given the choice I'd prefer getting high on oldschool as well... what I was trying to say is that once you're high you don't really have preferences anymore. As long as there's repetitive music and a fast kick to get the chemicals going you feel good. I can't imagine someone in the middle of a high thinking "bwah, I'd prefer oldschool". It just doesn't work that way. But IMO a LOT of electronic music makers understood that a long time ago which is why most legends are making crappy stuff our days. And I'm not only speaking of psytrance producers here, also people like Laurent Garnier, Sven Vath, RMB,... Just my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time_Trap Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 ah I think I expressed myself badly. Of course that if given the choice I'd prefer getting high on oldschool as well... what I was trying to say is that once you're high you don't really have preferences anymore. As long as there's repetitive music and a fast kick to get the chemicals going you feel good. I can't imagine someone in the middle of a high thinking "bwah, I'd prefer oldschool". It just doesn't work that way. But IMO a LOT of electronic music makers understood that a long time ago which is why most legends are making crappy stuff our days. And I'm not only speaking of psytrance producers here, also people like Laurent Garnier, Sven Vath, RMB,... Just my 2 cents 428663[/snapback] i see your point but i think you are wrong. also depends what you are high on. yes if you are a speed freak you might dance without any music at all just to release the tension. but i think bad music during a psychedelic trip might blow it all away... :S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuse Posted January 29, 2006 Share Posted January 29, 2006 Is goa dead or not ? pfff not reading the whole topic and always give the same answer to people on parties too, it's just pure personal experience, goa has changed but is not dead at all, if you look how many releases their are at psyshop weekly I would say it's more alive and kicking then ever before, it's possible YOUR personal experience of goa is dead but newcommers who lisen to some good dark psy or some intilligent morning fulllon won't say goa is dead and I will agree with them 100% to me I'm an old skooler, and ineed only suntrip is the label releasing the most minded goatrance lately, and I like it, but some good fullon once & while can rock my world too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.