Jump to content
Kitrinos

The trajectory of Goa trance

Recommended Posts

Diaks    34

The topic is going out of its trajectory lol :lol:

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Tsotsi    130
4 hours ago, Psychedelic Superbeast said:

"Its ok my Dear...if you have no own cock we can use my cock together!

Mum? Is that you?

  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MikroMakro    17

Just a few thoughts, Barmohak.. nothing in that really that would cause any major issues IMO kick attack might be a bit hard. Actually I quite like the kick drum even though it may not gel with the bass line, but maybe that is precisely what the producer wanted, that is fair they might, isn't it ?. Etnica Triptonite Pleadian Live has some rather forward hats/snare, no ? And the original Etnica Triptonite mix, well that is nice an easy on the ears to me, warm, deep and interesting sounding, warmly spatial. The bottom end is extremely vibrant, smooth and caressing in fact it is awesome.

Are these not the very sonic differences what makes music different? Many seem to be caught between "mix perfection" which does not exist as there will always be some one who wants the kick a touch louder or the this that and the other a bit quieter. Some tracks the kick drives, some the kick and bass are given equal importance some the bass is up. Let it be so ! Assuming the producer has a decent environment to work, variation is a nice thing.

No single track, can be every other track, and this is why we have favourites, you know that track that blows you away every time because it is perfect.

As long as there is not totally bonkers mix balances/tonal mistakes I am not sure if this destroys enjoyment of a track. If hats are slightly loud for your taste or a kick is loud maybe it is just because the producer understood something you don't have the benefit of. Like drum or kick and bass groove changing as merely one example. (a big one)

Are we listening to music or dissecting production and mixing ? Of course psy trance is a technically deep music and so was Goa for its time. I think we may be losing our ability to hear to enjoy, especially producer types may have strong opinions on this and that. Actually I think it is time to hear the music again. One thing that producers and engineers need to protect is their ability to enjoy music presentation as a whole for aural pleasure and dancing and being emotionally affected, instead of listening to the 16th hi hat panning choice.

And just to clarify I am not saying don't make good mixes in your own ears, of course do that. But it is hard to be meditative when you are thinking which synth made that sound, and why the producer did not push the snare up 1dB. I guess some days we wear the producers hat and some days we wear the dance floor stompers hat and other laying on the bed with headphones, drifting off and chilling. All worthy approaches.

One question I ask myself from time to time (and this goes for Goa and Psy)

Does this track have the ability to put me into a trance like or hypnotic meditative state ? Many, many times the answer is no (and I have made a few of those myself)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Padmapani    405
13 hours ago, Diaks said:

The kick itself became like a signature hook of that song. And the 303 line complements it very good. As does the off-beat bassline. It wasn’t until recently that I read on youtube in the comments to said track, where Miranda explained that the kick has a pitched down cowbell layered.

interesting. i remember that i once found a proto goa track somewhere and thought "oh, so the kick of gnocchi is not an original one but sampled from here". i cannot remember the track atm but apparently it was just similar and not sampled…

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Padmapani    405
1 hour ago, MikroMakro said:

Are we listening to music or dissecting production and mixing ?

normally i can listen fine without dissecting the mix, but the balance of this one (it's also different for the different tracks in the video) reminded me so much of when i had worked on a track with headphones and switched over to monitors the first time, that my brain immediately went into mixing mode ;)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Diaks    34
3 hours ago, Padmapani said:

interesting. i remember that i once found a proto goa track somewhere and thought "oh, so the kick of gnocchi is not an original one but sampled from here". i cannot remember the track atm but apparently it was just similar and not sampled…

 

Btw, listening to gnocchi, there are other very nice little tricks here and there. The snare programming is interesting, there seems to be a snare reversed inbetween the regular hitting snares. In order to create a sweeping "swosh" effect.
 

There was a lot of individual tricks to stand out in early goa/psy trance. Before it became slightly more formulaic. Compared to nowadays when there are a gazillion youtube tutorials for everything. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

4 hours ago, MikroMakro said:

 

Are we listening to music or dissecting production and mixing ?

im always dissecting production and mixes i think it just comes naturally to do that. Not that its a good thing; nothing really comes from it, but its really the only way i can hear things these days. I think its a really bad habit though and its more akin to a curse than anything else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MikroMakro    17

You need to see the wood from the trees to feel music and dissection is a type of affliction for some, it is very important to have an "OFF" switch for it (for broad objective reasons to broadly feel what has been made). Anyone involved in music production tends to, to varying degrees. Having some variation through production choices (not lack of knowledge or equipment) is good and normal. When you make your own tracks you can dissect to the nth degree and you should if that is the way you wish to work, to your definition of perfection, that is achievable with your current skill level. But unless specifically being asked, small issues won't typically make or break a good piece of music.

As far as where it (new Goa) has been going it seems mainly 2 camps of production, retro re-creation with loose Juno/303/101/Novation Bass Station type B-lines or modern psy trance bass with melodic Goa style leads on top.

Where it goes depends on what a producer gets off on, the technical stuff, recreating authentic retro sound, mixing up styles, writing great melodies, enjoyment of synthesis and creation of new or old sounds. But whatever, we seem to be stuck in 4/4 kick and bass land whatever way it is cut in order to be understood as Goa/psy. If you start not to have an underground sound or are influenced by too many sounds outside variations on those accepted as "psy-ey" or "Goa-ey"  then you are labelled as "not real psy" or its not very Goa sounding.

Conversely (and it is unfair and difficult to generalize) but some new listeners or labels hear night time/foresty stuff and it bears little lineage back to Goa. So many modern listeners have no history in place (I have visited Goa since the mid 90's and many times since. But please don't see this as a holier than thou commentary.) I did not follow Goa Trance deeply at the time but had a strong awareness of the music every time I was there, it was unavoidable with the CD sellers in Anjuna. So maybe Goa style music is a refreshing form of Psy trance for some younger ears (that is more melodic/ musically complex) and for some it reminds of the good old days. (Contrary to belief there are many from the early days who follow and love psy trance in the U.K. it is not all looking backwards.) I can hear some psy artists nod back to the 90's in their sound (often full on i.e. Electric Universe/Mad Tribe), you will hear Goa-esque sounds and techniques in their leads and some modern tracks are totally devoid of any reflection on the sonics of the 90's.

In the end it is all part of a rich sonic and cultural tapestry.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Diaks    34
2 hours ago, astralprojection said:

 

im always dissecting production and mixes i think it just comes naturally to do that. Not that its a good thing; nothing really comes from it, but its really the only way i can hear things these days. I think its a really bad habit though and its more akin to a curse than anything else.

I agree. My own experience is that, since psytrance music rarely has any lyrics. And mostly have anonymous artists, not common with photos on the covers. What else is there really left to dissect and connect with? The music and technology behind, and the album artwork, pretty much.

Not that it isn’t fun to dissect music of other genres as well.

Often the most searched for things in regular music with lyrics, are the lyrics, chords and music videos. And if the artist has an interesting life/persona, that too of course. Lyrics, chords and music videos aren’t really common in psy trance. Infected Mushroom are probably one of the few groups, in the genre who do have those sometimes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oopie    164

Lots of social factors come at play when you try to figure out how "the scene" came to its current standards. 90s was a period without internet, or at least the social media was non-existing. You'd just do your thing, with no need for constant attention seeking or self-promotion. You'd sit in whatever psyhole you had there, compose, play at a party and the feedback would occur the natural way, via real human contact. These days you need following, likes and what not - it's all virtual though. And hey! You can also buy the likes, psyscene is under capitalistic law like it or not. 

All that's been said is affecting us all. Social media is giving us access to infinite amount of information and what kinda happened is our minds are focused on trillion things at once trying to swim through the pool of data. The consumption mode is on when it comes to psytrance, too. So many artists, so much music! As a reflection of a sort, haste & desire for recognition have unfortunately become major driving forces for many musicians. The social media driven world shows no mercy, it's just the state of things for the time being. 

Patience, vision and focus. I reckon the amount of these qualities has dropped significantly and hence understand the frustration of many. Only thing that might, just might, ease the pain is the fact new Sab Kuch Milegator album is only one track away...B) 

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MikroMakro    17

Goa scene was also under capitalism. In the 90's to make trance you really needed money, I suspect studios were not built selling necklaces in Anjuna for 150 Rupees. A Mackie 24-8-2 was £3,500.00 - An ATARI 1040STE £400.00 (or an Amiga) A slightly lesser project 24 channel console (Soundtracs Topaz/Soundcraft Spirit 24/Studiomaster) £2,300.00 - Then you needed a few synths that could be £5,000.00 -  a sampler with memory £2,600.00 Reverbs and delays £400.00 a go. - You needed to have some cash behind you to make decent trance. I suspect the outlay for some of the "bigger" artists project studios of the time was circa £20,000.00 - Today you could potentially make a superb track for £ 2,000.00 with a pc. 1/10th of the cost.

I think a Roland JD-800 was £3,000.00

Now anyone with the inclination can make music the limit being only ideas and intention.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Diaks    34
36 minutes ago, MikroMakro said:

Goa scene was also under capitalism. In the 90's to make trance you really needed money, I suspect studios were not built selling necklaces in Anjuna for 150 Rupees. A Mackie 24-8-2 was £3,500.00 - An ATARI 1040STE £400.00 (or an Amiga) A slightly lesser project 24 channel console £2,300.00 - Then you needed a few synths that could be £5,000.00 -  a sampler with memory £2,600.00 Reverbs and delays £400.00 a go. - You needed to have some cash behind you to make decent trance. I suspect the outlay for some of the "bigger" artists project studios of the time was circa £20,000.00 - Today you could potentially make a superb track for £ 2,000.00 with a pc. 1/10th of the cost.

I think a Roland JD-800 was £3,000.00

Now anyone with the inclination can make music the limit being only ideas and intention.

Exactly, you mean Mackie 32/8 bus right? And not the smaller 24/8 bus? Music production became a lot more accessible indeed. For good and bad, not that having all that gear in the 90's was a guarantee for the quality. But atleast if a label invested in someone, it would hopefully mean they predicted to get a return on their investment. Lots of people paid for getting access to a fully equipped studio as well. And I would assume that knowing people with nice studios was a way in for a lot of people as well.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MikroMakro    17

A bit OT but I am pretty sure a 24 channel Mackie was £3,500.00 - I was lusting over one every other Saturday morning in the music tech shop, lol. I could not afford the Mackie so got on one of these back then.

j53yuutsieebftuyaoyn.jpg

It was actually a decent desk (only semi parametric EQ unlike the Mackie which had a bandwidth (Q) knob which was rad back then.) It was the only Studiomaster that I recall that had a very low noise floor and MIDI mutes. (Some of their earlier designs had a bit of a bad reputation for being hissy)

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Diaks    34

I have played around in Logic Pro X trying to recreate the Gnocchi Kick/Bass/Snare/303 line. Too bad this forum don't allow uploading of audio files. Could that function be added? I would be a very useful feature for the music ID topics and in the music production section as well.

Kinda crazy looking back in time on the gear used in the tracks, in the Miranda interview here on psynews she states that she used the Kurzweil K2000 RS. That thing must have been quite cumbersome to work with. Menu diving deluxe.

A photo from google:

 

 

q6g0zl3iizuvuedr5py1.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MikroMakro    17

I recall seeing these at music technology (expo's) exhibitions, expensive bit of kit. Apparently very good sounding synth.

Thinking a bit more about trajectory of Goa trance, I suppose its trajectory was that it turned in psy trance. But keeping with Goa trance inspired tracks (other than neo Goa) this one always blows me away. I heard it one morning at a party and it was incredible, one of the memorable moments you can have, with smiling faces all round. Love the 303 vibe bass line, ok yes I dissected it on the dance floor, guilty ! I was thinking how cool the aciddy 303 style B line was.:+1: Available on Beatport.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Veracohr    107
On 3/3/2020 at 10:08 PM, Psychedelic Superbeast said:

Capitalist:

"I have 30cm cock and you only have 12. I’m going to take your 12 and charge you to replace it with a plastic one that will break in a year. Oh and it might give you cancer.

There, fixed that for you. :rolleyes:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
RTP    71
On 3/3/2020 at 1:52 PM, Diaks said:

If you wanna make a real change, go produce what you think is the proper goa trance instead. [And pray that it might have some impact.]

Please, take this sentence and put it up more visibly. On a transparent or something. Because this is a very good solution indeed - and I think for everyone!

Starting to produce music yourself will make you see the whole thing quite differently.

At least that was the case with me / us:
Remember that bold sentence from my signature some time ago that went "We got tired of the way goatrance sounds today. So we created our own." Yeah. Now tell me, what has that "NPNK" track down there in my sig [at the time of writing] in common with goa :lol: ... man I have to laugh how stupid I was taking that all so seriously :lol: ...
Granted, at first we DID make something in the line of "goa" ... (please have a look on our Soundcloud and you will see) ... we were set (in my head) to make a great "goa album" ... but when you produce more and more, you will see it is actually hard to make tracks "like you imagine them to be", not every melody fits, not every concept you can make sound like you want it to sound. And then you start experimenting and hey, suddenly you have some pop track made ... or dubstep ... and then? So what, why should we abandon it, just because it isn't true to that sentence that was once said...? Tolerance versus determination - what is better ... I think you have to use the right dose of both.
Anyway, I'd in no way be so bold to commit to anything anymore at this point in time ... it's a fun project afterall. Other genres and styles also hold many secrets and hey, sometimes it's the other way round and what you believe to be hard becomes easy and what you believe to be easy takes AGES to get even remotely right...

In fact these days I'd say, when something listenable comes out of all the experiments, we are happy men :D :D :D 

...but at least we do no harm ... because we have no impact -_-

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
vv303    2

lol, this thread is a joke. The ‘expert’ chimes in with such sage advice as  “be unique” and “lower your bpm”

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Diaks    34
2 hours ago, vv303 said:

lol, this thread is a joke. The ‘expert’ chimes in with such sage advice as  “be unique” and “lower your bpm”

We now have the opposite issue. Everyone lowered their bpm, because they read here that it would make them unique. :P

The impact of this thread is shattering the fabric of spacetime. It sent gravitational waves rippling through space. Soon there will be intelligent lifeforms arriving, from the far reaches of the universe. And then the OP will have some explaining to do. :o

btw love that stela of Akhenaten and his family, you have as your profile picture.

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Diaks said:

 

The impact of this thread is shattering the fabric of spacetime. It sent gravitational waves rippling through space.

 

haha. i feel this. I think the whole world is going crazy though.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Diaks    34
1 hour ago, astralprojection said:

haha. i feel this. I think the whole world is going crazy though.

4 real, it’s on some next level lately. IRL mindfucks lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kitrinos    48

Btw does anyone know when the term 'Goa trance' came into use? And what were people calling this style of music in the mid-90s?

And what about late-80s - early-90s at the parties of Goa? Anybody been there at that time? In what terms were ppl talking about the music in that remote past?

:D 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Dolmot    167
40 minutes ago, Kitrinos said:

Btw does anyone know when the term 'Goa trance' came into use? And what were people calling this style of music in the mid-90s?

I investigated the matter in this topic! (Mainly concentrating on release titles and descriptions which can be dated.)

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...