abasio Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 I guess I am lucky. I didn't know there were levels to atheism but insisting you know for a fact is just as baseless as insisting there is. Here is a fun statistic. Go catholics! The types I mentioned are fairly rare, most atheists I've met have been rational open minded and sane. There is type of person though that needs to believe hole-heartedly in something. They'll generally join a major religion and become a fundie, there are some though that are not exposed to religious groups but to atheists, they listen to their atheist peers an then latch on to what was said and dial it upnto eleven. I don't believe in gods becomes there ARE no gods, how can you believe in something so chilish you moron. They grasp on to science like it's a religion, understanding only headlines but somehow believing 100% the idea they think they understand. Some people just need to believe in something, or the absence of something and it's not just religious zealots hmmm....im about as hardcore of an atheist as youre likely to meet. being that as it is, i know and converse with like minded people. i have never met or heard of any person who identifies as an atheist who thinks anything even remotely like that. what does "no chance for anything grater than ourselves" even mean? it is generally atheists who promote the very ideas you are claiming they reject. i dont know too many atheists who feel as though there cant be other forms of life...in fact its just the opposite. its religious teachings and people than espouse the idea that humans are alone in the universe, created by god in his image as the supreme life form on earth. appearing as a god does not a god make. if i were to somehow go back in time 500 years with my cell phone, a car and a zippo...i too would "appear as a god". its meaningless. If I could guarantee in the future that you'd be the most hardcore anything I'd meet I'd be happy. Unfortunately I've met far too many hardcore believers and none believers to last me a lifetime. If there was an alien species advanced enough to have created our world or our universe, wouldn't they actually be creator gods? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouroboros Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 If there was an alien species advanced enough to have created our world or our universe, wouldn't they actually be creator gods? no, they would just be creators. and are they just advanced enough to have done it...or did they actually do it? humans are advanced enough to and actually do create new life forms...does that make us "gods" to those life forms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angular_sound Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Abasio#51 : "If there was an alien species advanced enough to have created our world or our universe, wouldn't they actually be creator gods?" Yup that's also what i believe. According to spiritualist Kyle Griffith who had past life memories on an alien world since he was 4, such worlds exist and spirits from these worlds have channeled him that Earth's humans have been created by psychokinetic manipulation of the great apes's dna. That would explain the gap between human's and apes' dna that scientists have found so "bizarre" and "alien-looking" that it couldn't have any chance to happen only by Darwinian evolutionary mutations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouroboros Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Abasio#51 : "If there was an alien species advanced enough to have created our world or our universe, wouldn't they actually be creator gods?"Yup that's also what i believe. According to spiritualist Kyle Griffith who had past life memories on an alien world since he was 4, such worlds exist and spirits from these worlds have channeled him that Earth's humans have been created by psychokinetic manipulation of the great apes's dna. That would explain the gap between human's and apes' dna that scientists have found so "bizarre" and "alien-looking" that it couldn't have any chance to happen only by Darwinian evolutionary mutations. while i find that idea to be entirely and utterly unbelievable...they didnt "create" from nothing...they altered preexisting dna, so again, were back to the realm of what we can already do now...and so ill ask again...are we gods? does simply having the ability to create make one a god? i have a daughter...am i her god? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angular_sound Posted December 18, 2013 Share Posted December 18, 2013 Ouroboros#54 : "while i find that idea to be entirely and utterly unbelievable...they didnt "create" from nothing...they altered preexisting dna, so again, were back to the realm of what we can already do now...and so ill ask again...are we gods? does simply having the ability to create make one a god? i have a daughter...am i her god?" I agree with you that the sole act of creation isn't enought to qualify a civilization as being a God-Goddess. This creation potential must be superior to the civilization's destructive potential for qualifying as a Godess-God. But the most important is that naming an inhabited planet by its original name or by the terms "God" or "Godess" or any specific name isn't relevant at all : people on an advanced civilization can perfectly choose not to call themselves "divine". I would just subjectively find such a civilization "divine" because i would be amazed by their advanced moral, emotional, social and political standards as well as by the quality of their notions of love.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmapani Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 gap between human's and apes' dna that scientists have found so "bizarre" and "alien-looking" that it couldn't have any chance to happen only by Darwinian evolutionary mutations. sources please. as a molecular biologist with quite a bit of background in evolution, i have never heard about such a thing, and i'm obviously interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouroboros Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Ouroboros#54 : "while i find that idea to be entirely and utterly unbelievable...they didnt "create" from nothing...they altered preexisting dna, so again, were back to the realm of what we can already do now...and so ill ask again...are we gods? does simply having the ability to create make one a god? i have a daughter...am i her god?"I agree with you that the sole act of creation isn't enought to qualify a civilization as being a God-Goddess. This creation potential must be superior to the civilization's destructive potential for qualifying as a Godess-God. But the most important is that naming an inhabited planet by its original name or by the terms "God" or "Godess" or any specific name isn't relevant at all : people on an advanced civilization can perfectly choose not to call themselves "divine". I would just subjectively find such a civilization "divine" because i would be amazed by their advanced moral, emotional, social and political standards as well as by the quality of their notions of love.... well you cant just go around making up definitions for things. for something to be a god it would by definition need to be supernatural, not just too advanced for your understanding. and you seem to be adding quite a bit of completely unrelated (and seemingly random) things, such as morality or constructive/destructive potential ratios. im sorry man but i dont understand what youre on about at all. being a god isnt subjective, either an entity is or is not a god. how can such criteria possibly be of any importance? why "MUST" the creation/destructive potential be at a qualifying ratio? where did you come up with this requirement? i am a human being simply because i am, not because i meet some arbitrary set of parameters. similarly a god would be a god simply because it IS one. a god does not have to "qualify" as one (as you put it). what makes you think, if you believe there could be gods, that they cant have destructive power greater than creative power? i will reiterate a point because its important, a god by definition is supernatural. i.e. it exists outside of nature. however you want to spin multi dimensions, or alternate universes, or whatever...if any of those things exist, they still exist in our natural universe. advanced aliens still need to follow the laws of physics, even if theyve learned how to do things you or i could not understand, thus making them, by definition...not gods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radi6404 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I fully agree to that state ment and was wondering what he meant with the things he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouroboros Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 sources please. as a molecular biologist with quite a bit of background in evolution, i have never heard about such a thing, and i'm obviously interested. yeah id like to hear about that as well. as far as i understand, there arent any "gaps", and the differences are mostly related to regular plain old genes that one species has and the other does not. nothing "alien" or "bizarre looking" about them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopie Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 I find it there's no such language as of yet that would, without a doubt, prove gods existence or vice versa. Having a spiritual view for life doesn't acquire high degree of intelligence or book smarts, it's a perception or insight that goes deeper than logical mind can grasp. This insight is an experience, and cannot be automated thru logical means only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouroboros Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Having a spiritual view for life doesn't acquire high degree of intelligence or book smarts... now this i 100% agree with, in fact id say not having a high degree of intelligence or book smarts makes it a whole lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padmapani Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 yeah id like to hear about that as well. as far as i understand, there arent any "gaps", and the differences are mostly related to regular plain old genes that one species has and the other does not. nothing "alien" or "bizarre looking" about them at all. totally. the thing i have in my mind is that the people involved were suprised by how close the genome of humans and chimpanzees were and a sort-of "controversy" if humans could even be classified as "homo" instead of "pan" - of course only when you solely look at the genetics and not at the morphology/... now this i 100% agree with, in fact id say not having a high degree of intelligence or book smarts makes it a whole lot easier. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oopie Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 now this i 100% agree with, in fact id say not having a high degree of intelligence or book smarts makes it a whole lot easier. Then again, measuring 'intelligence' is quite a vague thing to do the first place. There's different fields of intelligence in human behaviour, academic being just small portion of it. I can't agree with your statement about an inversely proportional relation between intelligent status and spiritual belief; I see they're not contradictory. All I'm saying is that academic education isn't necessary for spiritual belief as this belief is generated by something else in human than the rational mind singly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radi6404 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Some brain scientists have found that believ is taking place in one part of the brain specially dedicated to it. This, if true, would suppor the theory of an existing god even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JISNEGRO Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 And how does that fact supposedly support the existence of a god? I can not see any relation between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radi6404 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Well, because otherwise this believ could be just generated where other believes are generated, like the believ that we will succed/fail in certain things. Do you think clear or not? If a god does not exist, why would there be a special center in our brain for religious believs? What porpuse would it serve? I am curious to hear your explanations about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoptes Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Well, because otherwise this believ could be just generated where other believes are generated, like the believ that we will succed/fail in certain things. Do you think clear or not? If a god does not exist, why would there be a special center in our brain for religious believs? What porpuse would it serve? I am curious to hear your explanations about this. This thread is make me grit my teeth... talking about something "alien" in our dna..alien visions (lol)...Radi spouting this nonsense... Radi stop talking unless you start citing sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laik Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Well, because otherwise this believ could be just generated where other believes are generated, like the believ that we will succed/fail in certain things. Do you think clear or not? If a god does not exist, why would there be a special center in our brain for religious believs? What porpuse would it serve? I am curious to hear your explanations about this. maybe it's a part of the brain where our curiosity lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radi6404 Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 This thread is make me grit my teeth... talking about something "alien" in our dna..alien visions (lol)...Radi spouting this nonsense... Radi stop talking unless you start citing sources. Man, you annoy me almost every time you talk in this forum. Whenever you make the effort to use your fingers and release something new, it always shows how smallminded, stubbern and ignorant you are. It is a big shame one user, which was a friend of mine, is not here. I don`t have the words and energy to argue properly, he on the other hand would finally make an end to such ignorant commends of yours, which show that you are an reallity addict. If you want fucking proove, go vist fucking youtube. I don`t make up such things in my mind you know, I get the information from somewhere and I saw it in one video, but that was about a year ago. Just remember, your ignorance and reallity addiction will one day proove you very wrong, then you will think about me. I am wondering why I argue with such reallity addicts as you at all. Such ignorant people that think what science has said, is the real truth. You are not any better than people, who claimed the earth is the center of the universe. maybe it's a part of the brain where our curiosity lies. Maybe, but maybe not. It is astonishing how so many users stick with reallity addict thinking and don´t allow for anything that doesn´t fit in their simple way of thinking. It is a shame that people really believe, that their simple way of seeing things is the right way and don´t allow for anything, that can´t be percepted with their sences. Anything a tele/microscope or a microphone can´t percept for most people simply is impossible. What a narrow way of thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouroboros Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Then again, measuring 'intelligence' is quite a vague thing to do the first place. There's different fields of intelligence in human behaviour, academic being just small portion of it. I can't agree with your statement about an inversely proportional relation between intelligent status and spiritual belief; I see they're not contradictory. All I'm saying is that academic education isn't necessary for spiritual belief as this belief is generated by something else in human than the rational mind singly. well, the numbers say differently. dont get me wrong, im not suggesting that spiritual people are stupid, im suggesting, the more intelligent and educated a person is, the more difficult it becomes for them to hold on to such beliefs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouroboros Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 Well, because otherwise this believ could be just generated where other believes are generated, like the believ that we will succed/fail in certain things. Do you think clear or not? If a god does not exist, why would there be a special center in our brain for religious believs? What porpuse would it serve? I am curious to hear your explanations about this. a belief isnt "generated", its a conscious decision one makes. you either accept or reject an idea as having merit based on the information you have. your brain doesnt just pump out beliefs from some kind of belief gland...they are thoughts and ideas formed from observations and and other outside information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoptes Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Man, you annoy me almost every time you talk in this forum. Whenever you make the effort to use your fingers and release something new, it always shows how smallminded, stubbern and ignorant you are. It is a big shame one user, which was a friend of mine, is not here. I don`t have the words and energy to argue properly, he on the other hand would finally make an end to such ignorant commends of yours, which show that you are an reallity addict. If you want fucking proove, go vist fucking youtube. I don`t make up such things in my mind you know, I get the information from somewhere and I saw it in one video, but that was about a year ago. Just remember, your ignorance and reallity addiction will one day proove you very wrong, then you will think about me. I am wondering why I argue with such reallity addicts as you at all. Such ignorant people that think what science has said, is the real truth. You are not any better than people, who claimed the earth is the center of the universe. Yes of course youtube is a credible source. I should have known better than to question you radi. well, the numbers say differently. dont get me wrong, im not suggesting that spiritual people are stupid, im suggesting, the more intelligent and educated a person is, the more difficult it becomes for them to hold on to such beliefs. +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouroboros Posted December 19, 2013 Share Posted December 19, 2013 i mean one of the most influential religious books in history explains it all right in the very first part...adam and eve were "thrown" out of eden after eating from the tree of knowledge. seems pretty obvious what that means to me. once acquiring knowledge, one is no longer capable of existing in a world where god can protect (or harm) you. you are cast out into the universe on your own, and realize thats where you were all along the knowledge itself is what expels us from living a life in which a god is ever present and controlling our lives...we learn the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoptes Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 i mean one of the most influential religious books in history explains it all right in the very first part...adam and eve were "thrown" out of eden after eating from the tree of knowledge. seems pretty obvious what that means to me. once acquiring knowledge, one is no longer capable of existing in a world where god can protect (or harm) you. you are cast out into the universe on your own, and realize thats where you were all along the knowledge itself is what expels us from living a life in which a god is ever present and controlling our lives...we learn the truth. couldn't have put it better myself. Once you break through its hard to revert back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panoptes Posted December 19, 2013 Author Share Posted December 19, 2013 Heres a nice little bit I stumbled upon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQL6z0e0fU0 check mate? Christianity is a subservient worldview. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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