Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Ormion

Specific styles/periods you miss in psytrance

Recommended Posts

Ormion    435

I'm talking about either styles that are no more (tech trance,psy techno of 1999-2001) or specific periods of a style like early period of full on or something.

Mine are:

-Old school Goa. Duh! New school can't fill the void, sorry.

 

-Golden period of South African psy 2003-2007. By far my favourite period of post 2000 psytrance. Every month you've got a different album or compilation by Timecode and Nexus Media plus other labels like MMD or Afrogalactic. And most of them being absolutely fantastic.

 

-Early Goa Full On blend. I'm talking about 1998-2000 period where artists start to make Goa more full on-ish, but still being psychedelic and crazy. Artists like Xerox & Freeman or early 3D Vision (Talamasca, Absolum, Mael), Virtuart, Passenger etc.

That's a style I don't think we'll ever get back.

 

What about you?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    120

Interesting topic, I miss the feeling I got when hearing this compilation for the first time in 1999:

https://www.discogs.com/Various-IsrAliens-Futuristic-Psy-Trance-For-The-Year-2000/release/214008

It felt new and fresh, pretty much everything on HOM-mega and Phonokol/Trust In Trance at the time had that sensation, like if every new compilation pushed the sonic boundaries a little further. And it was a gradual development, almost like a morphing from melodic goa trance to darker more futuristic soundscapes.

I also miss the Flying Rhino stuff.

And yes obviously the entire old school goa era. It was a very experimental age, with lots of different stylistic approaches coexisting on most compilations. And a special sound due to the analog equipment/limitations. The rawness I miss some times, which I'm instantly reminded of if listening to some of the classics. There's just something about the the analog aspect which has a living, breathing soul. Especially the sounds of the SH-101 and TB-303 synthesizers, have that unique sensation. It's like an electric guitar, it's pure electricity. They scream and sound alive when pushed through distortion, amplifiying the rich analogue overtones, providing a very infinite and unpredictable texture to the goa sound.

We could draw comparisons to photography, the difference between digital and analogue cameras. Both have their pros and cons, and digital/analogue hybrids is of course a thing as well within photo, as it is in some synthesizer models. But it's a good comparison because of the resolution of digital vs analogue, in both photos and synthesizers/audio products. (Vinyl vs CD etc).

The digital and virtual analog synthesizers of the time of course added a lot to the sonic palette as well, but those are for most part sounds that can be recreated somewhat faithfully with plugins. And the plugins are getting better every year.

Perhaps I got a bit carried away now and forgot the intial topic questions. :D But yeah old school goa is a bit difficult to pin down stylewise as there were so many different approches. If we would call Hallucinogen's style a specific subgenre of goa, well then I miss that style. Since not even he himself has managed to create something equally mind-expanding since that era IMO. Although he has made some really good/interesting music nonetheless since then. But yeah he set the bar quite high with the Twisted album. Last album I really liked by him was Younger Brother - The last Days of Gravity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Oopie    176

Sure! 

1) Hallucinogen sound of the 90s. Does that need further explanation?

2) Yahel-esque stuff he did in the beginning of his career around 2000. Clubby goa with borderline cheesy melodies, he carried such class in his melody work one is hard to reach that. 

3) Tech-trance that came out around y2k. Tracks such as 'Atmos - The Only Process', 'X-Dream - Thorazin' or 'Etnica - Andromeda'. Oh boy, would it be nice to hear more bangers like that, it's just not the fashion anymore! 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fullon sound in the early 2000s. Which is ironic cause that's what I used to diss back in the day. 

But stuff like 

 

From 2002. I don't know where I can find something modern that is similar to this. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Padmapani    444
15 minutes ago, astralprojection said:

The fullon sound in the early 2000s. Which is ironic cause that's what I used to diss back in the day. 

But stuff like 

 

From 2002. I don't know where I can find something modern that is similar to this. 

that track is in the playlist currently running in my car :)

i started out a little later, so i only dissed the sort of fullon that had basslines changing according to the chord progression, thinking it was way too cheesy for psy. little did i know what we were going to see from electro sun and the like a few years later ;) 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Padmapani    444
On 7/25/2020 at 12:38 PM, Oopie said:

Tracks such as 'Atmos - The Only Process', 

maybe it's going back into fashion soon. at least there's a recent remix of it that captures the essence of the track pretty well (even though it's from captain hook).

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
recursion loop    542
6 hours ago, Padmapani said:

i only dissed the sort of fullon that had basslines changing according to the chord progression, thinking it was way too cheesy for psy

53164765.jpg

Doesn't it actually depend on the chord progression itself? I think a harmonic minor progression, especially with some chromatic elements like a diminished 5th will sound anything but cheesy (like some SA twillight for example) 

 

As I said many times, I sorely miss melodic fullon, circa 2006 (Protoculture - Circadians) till 2013 (U-Recken - A Light at the End of The World). I admit that this subgenre/period is responsible for some of the most appaling cheese but also for some of the finest melodic psy ever made (Digicult, Chromosome, Mr Peculiar, Hyperion, Galactika, U-Recken and many others). And even the downright cheesy stuff form that period (Ananda Shake, Intersys, Sytem Nipel, Electro Sun, Indra) is somehow more likeable than Vini Vici or Berg and similar.

 

I also think the progressive from that period sounded more diverse and overall more interesting than today, the albums like Andromeda - Sensations, Vibrasphere - Archipelago, Suntree - Inside, Freq - Strange Attractors, E-Clip - Shuma - they don't have much in common except lower bpm and overall less intense sound but something sets them apart from modern cookie-cutter prog.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
technosomy    281

i miss that no holds barred banging rhino and transient psychedelia mid to late 90's
and that crazy australian parallel suomisaundi universe sound (psy-harmonics) etc

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Padmapani said:

that track is in the playlist currently running in my car :)

i started out a little later, so i only dissed the sort of fullon that had basslines changing according to the chord progression, thinking it was way too cheesy for psy. little did i know what we were going to see from electro sun and the like a few years later ;) 

:)

Well maybe I spoke to soon, I didn't really diss the fullon, but generally I dissed most psy around that time cause I was starved for goa. Everything was just progressive. The fullon I actually did like even back then. 

 

Ah yes the electric universe style. I too find that to be a little over the top. Just have the bassline on the fundamental and jump around a bit.. Why shift the entire bassline each time :angry: (silicon sound for example did this masterfully) 

But sometimes it works out great, so I won't say it's bad or anything. Peak for example. Albeit that's also one of my favorite cheese examples.. :p 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, recursion loop said:

Doesn't it actually depend on the chord progression itself? I think a harmonic minor progression, especially with some chromatic elements like a diminished 5th will sound anything but cheesy (like some SA twillight for example)

yes youre right. i think both me and padi spoke kinda generally. ofc theres tons of exceptions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Padmapani    444
8 hours ago, recursion loop said:

53164765.jpg

Doesn't it actually depend on the chord progression itself? I think a harmonic minor progression, especially with some chromatic elements like a diminished 5th will sound anything but cheesy (like some SA twillight for example) 

 

I also think the progressive from that period sounded more diverse and overall more interesting than today, the albums like Andromeda - Sensations, Vibrasphere - Archipelago, Suntree - Inside, Freq - Strange Attractors, E-Clip - Shuma - they don't have much in common except lower bpm and overall less intense sound but something sets them apart from modern cookie-cutter prog.

 

5 hours ago, astralprojection said:

Ah yes the electric universe style. I too find that to be a little over the top. Just have the bassline on the fundamental and jump around a bit.. Why shift the entire bassline each time :angry: (silicon sound for example did this masterfully) 

But sometimes it works out great, so I won't say it's bad or anything. Peak for example. Albeit that's also one of my favorite cheese examples.. :p 

 

 

i was coming from freetekno back than. if you're used to having just a fat kick playing at 180bpm with a few weird sounds on top you have a different perspective. my cheese threshold was way lower back then.

i was at the time looking for sound like talamasca - leo, but music like astrix - day dream was fresh and new and played everywhere. for most tracks i liked the first half but couldn't stand the climax at the end ;)

nowadays i have no problem with electric universe - peak (though it's still not among my favourites), but i would have hated it then :)

i do agree on that point about progressive. just listened to the sensations album the other day and it's really a gem. most new progressive doesn't come close.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    120

For keychanges in the bassline, those I remember within the Goa/Psy scene that did it well, was Infected Mushroom, Hunab-Ku, Mindsphere, Afgin and perhaps Filteria as well in The snuggling snail? Which would make sense since I remember vaguely that Filteria was into 80's music and regular trance prior to goa. (I could be wrong on this one). And Mindsphere I think was playing in a rock band before producing Goa Trance?

It's not so common with keychanges in the bass in Goa Trance, so it has never been an issue for me at least, on the contrary.  

But hey everybody has different preferences. :) How common/uncommon it was/is in Full-On I don't know, more than Vibe Tribe - Incore, it's the only example I know. Perhaps it's a thing in Israeli Psy/Full-On when I think about it? Didn't Yahel's, Waves of Sound album feature some of that as well? And Eyal Barkan's Voyage?

In regular trance it's not uncommon, and it was particularly common in the 90's trance and dream trance. Which is where I think the psy trancers borrowed inspiration from. And of course in the 80's, the synth pop was full of it. And the 90's goa artists all grew up or were inspired by the 80's one way or another.

Generally speaking keychanges in the bass are utilized for euphoria or somekind of emotional expression, like in Afgin's track Aden Prayers.

For me keychanges are a part of the goa repertoaire/history, even if it never was super common, as well as in the regular trance. It's there, it will always come back and then fade out of fashion like everything else in waves.

My impression is that perhaps the keychanges in Goa Trance came from the inspiration found in Depeche Mode/Synth music and from Italo music, and to some extent the 90's Euro Dance. While the more monotone nature of Goa/Psy came from the Techno/Acid scene. I don't know much about industrial music if it might contain any keychanges in the bass as well? Since that genre was also very popular among the first wave of Goa Trance artists, like Astral Projection and MFG for example. Who produced that kind of music as well in their youth.

Good example from Infected Mushroom of a more Synth-Pop influenced style with keychanges in the bass:

The Classical Mushroom album as well is full of keychanges in the bassline. The track I Wish on Converting Vegetarians is another example of the Synth-Pop fused Psy vibe, featuring keychanges in the bassline.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
recursion loop    542
59 minutes ago, Padmapani said:

for most tracks i liked the first half but couldn't stand the climax at the end

I came to psytrance from commercial trance, so I loved the massive melodic climaxes first then grew to like other parts of these fullon tracks. :) 

 

i still can't comprehend how the question "whether keychanges are admissible in psytrance" is really a thing. It's like "are men allowed to weak pink shirts" or similar. When the melody calls for a key change, why not? It doen't make the track any less psy as such, and the absence of key changes won't make it any more psy.

 

All in all, when the question "isn't it cheesy" comes into play, it's guaranteed that all the fun will soon go away, be it psytrance, or True Norvegian Black Metal or any other genre that pretends to be underground or extreme.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    120
59 minutes ago, recursion loop said:

I came to psytrance from commercial trance, so I loved the massive melodic climaxes first then grew to like other parts of these fullon tracks. :) 

 

i still can't comprehend how the question "whether keychanges are admissible in psytrance" is really a thing. It's like "are men allowed to weak pink shirts" or similar. When the melody calls for a key change, why not? It doen't make the track any less psy as such, and the absence of key changes won't make it any more psy.

 

All in all, when the question "isn't it cheesy" comes into play, it's guaranteed that all the fun will soon go away, be it psytrance, or True Norvegian Black Metal or any other genre that pretends to be underground or extreme.

I agree, we are on the same "note" on this one. ;) It's like you say if the melody calls for it, it needs to be done. I mean it will sound fucked up for sure if you have chord changes and the bass don't follow the chord progressions at all. It could of course create some interesting tension, leading to something. But yeah in general, just do what sounds/feels right for whatever you envision.

An example of a very dissonant sounding track where there is all kinds of weird inharmonic choices made, of course purposefully. Kinda the antithesis of harmonic music.  :P I would never have done it like this, but hey people seemed to like it. (I did too, but now I just hear dissonance unfortunately).

 

 

Imagine how limiting it would be, if one would have to consider some unwritten rules about not doing this and not doing that. Just because someone might not like it? :D Hard to please the entire world. For every person that don't like something, there's always another one who does. 

Sometimes an approach in the middle can work to, in order to create tension and intensity like Talpa did in this track:

 

 

Where he utilize keychanges in the bass, but just back and forth between two keys. It doesn't come across perhaps as "cheesy" because it maintains a rather monotone vibe because of this. As opposed to emotional/euphoric, and it creates a bit of discomfort, which was part of the mid 2000's Dark Psy vibe. To which Talpa perhaps pertained somewhat, even although he was also influenced by Infected Mushroom.

One contributing factor I think to why keychanges in the bass aren't as common as well (besides stylistic preferences), is because it can fuck up the mix and requires a lot more EQ work to get it to work with the kick drum. Since all of a sudden the bassline is moving around all over the frequency spectrum. :D So that nice boost you gave the bass at first needs to be automated sometimes to follow the bass peaks. Or one might need to make the boost wider.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
recursion loop    542
13 hours ago, AstralSphinx said:

One contributing factor I think to why keychanges in the bass aren't as common as well (besides stylistic preferences), is because it can fuck up the mix and requires a lot more EQ work to get it to work with the kick drum. Since all of a sudden the bassline is moving around all over the frequency spectrum. :D So that nice boost you gave the bass at first needs to be automated sometimes to follow the bass peaks. Or one might need to make the boost wider.

Yes, that's really a thing but it somewhat depends on the bassline style. What I call "modern" full-on/proggy bassline (like basically everyone at Dacru, Digital Om, Tech Safari, Iono etc is using) requires very precise phase aligment between the kick and the bass and also surgical equing depending on the harmonic frequences. Each time you change the key you need to do that again. Basically in this scenario I have separate mixer channels for each bassline note - typically 3 or 4 per a track suffice, my harmonies aren't as complex as Infected Mushroom or Terrafractyl, but even that takes quite a bit of extra work 

 

Oldschool fullon basslines with octave jumps are less rigid, no problems with transposing them along with the chord changes or even making them play their own melody

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, AstralSphinx said:

So that nice boost you gave the bass at first needs to be automated sometimes to follow the bass peaks. Or one might need to make the boost wider.

That's genius.. Automating the eq to follow the key changes. I guess the only other way would be have a different channel for each key change and eq separately. 

 

Wishful sinful is a great example to me, regarding having bassline jump around instead of full key changes. But maybe that one is slightly too jumpy. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
recursion loop    542
9 minutes ago, astralprojection said:

Automating the eq to follow the key changes

In this case I'd be afraid of potential phase issues. Maybe it's manageable but for me it's easier just to bounce few bassline notes with their own processing chains.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes that's very true. Didn't think of that. It's probably still best to render down the eq on each different part. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    120
1 hour ago, recursion loop said:

Yes, that's really a thing but it somewhat depends on the bassline style. What I call "modern" full-on/proggy bassline (like basically everyone at Dacru, Digital Om, Tech Safari, Iono etc is using) requires very precise phase aligment between the kick and the bass and also surgical equing depending on the harmonic frequences. Each time you change the key you need to do that again. Basically in this scenario I have separate mixer channels for each bassline note - typically 3 or 4 per a track suffice, my harmonies aren't as complex as Infected Mushroom or Terrafractyl, but even that takes quite a bit of extra work 

 

Oldschool fullon basslines with octave jumps are less rigid, no problems with transposing them along with the chord changes or even making them play their own melody

Yes the approach can vary greatly depending on some of the different scenarios/styles you've described. :) It's very interesting to read how people solve this issue. What I generally find can be quite time consuming when the harmonic content gets complex, is that it often involves a lot of transposing different parts until everyting sits right in the spectrum.

For example it might feel more easy/at home to write the piece in a familiar chord progresssion, for example on the piano/guitar. But then in the context with kick/bass/higher bpm, it will probably require to transpose the entire piece. There are probably very fast ways to do this as well i different DAW's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Padmapani    444
2 hours ago, recursion loop said:

In this case I'd be afraid of potential phase issues. Maybe it's manageable but for me it's easier just to bounce few bassline notes with their own processing chains.

not only phase issues. but it'd be a lot more work and much more prone to error. even when doing a typical "jumpy" fullon bassline that doesn't change with the chords i use 3-4 channels with different eq for each note. that'd be pretty much impossible with automation.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    120
1 hour ago, Padmapani said:

not only phase issues. but it'd be a lot more work and much more prone to error. even when doing a typical "jumpy" fullon bassline that doesn't change with the chords i use 3-4 channels with different eq for each note. that'd be pretty much impossible with automation.

And the opposite would hold true as well if one works in another way, for example using so many channels with different EQ per note would be very time consuming for others. Btw this got me curious, so on your DAW's mixer, do you have several channels for each note of the bassline? Or do you route them all to a group channel/bus? :) 

So I mean I guess this proves the point why it's not as common with keychanges, it adds a lot of time to a project which might already have a deadline. As no approach seems less time consuming, a lot of work to re-render parts if one needs to change something in the arrangement/melody/chord/bass structure.

I wonder how Infected does it nowadays, from what I've understood from their studio videos they spend a lot of time per track. So I don't think something complex/time consuming will scare them away. 

But yeah I definitely think they work a lot with rendered audio. Would be cool if they made a complete tutorial from scratch on how they make a track, they have some basic walkthroughs of their tracks on youtube.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And let's not forget the golden rule. If it sounds good you're doing it right :)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AstralSphinx    120
34 minutes ago, astralprojection said:

And let's not forget the golden rule. If it sounds good you're doing it right :)

True :+1: like NHJO-san used to say, when finishing a track with 20 basslines.;)

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

back on topic i also really miss the progressive stuff from 2003 and forward; like Vibrasphere. Like already mentioned, that style of progressive cannot really be beaten or at least- let me rephrase, i have not yet heard anything that has. 

Spirallianz was extremely popular here back then, and that was one example we used to toss around when dissing the current state of psytrance while crying about pleadians and astral :D Yes we were very childish about the matter.

The first album that did start to turn me around, was i think Vibrasphere - Lime Structure; although i didnt listen to it until 05-06. Then I was sold. but i suppose it took a few years to accept that old school goa was dead, and learn to appreciate what was avaliable. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
recursion loop    542
2 hours ago, Padmapani said:

even when doing a typical "jumpy" fullon bassline

For these I somehow manage to get by with just one synth channel, using broadband cuts and boosts and trying to find a phase sweet spot so that the phase wouldn't be completely off at any of the notes. Filter keytracking also helps getting consistent sound across different  notes. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...