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Why nobody cares for DJs in the psytrance scene?


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17 minutes ago, CalledByCthulhu said:

I mean...

Listen to this starting at about 9:10 

and witness that horrendous transition..

 

Yeah, well, that's why I don't consider him an answer to my original question. But again, I'm not sure if people that don't mix, actually feel how bad that sounds. I know I did 10 years ago when I didn't know a thing about DJing, but there's indeed people that can't noticed or don't care... To me such a bad mix is a total flow breaker. It always was to me. I mean, that was the reason why I started mixing in the first place. I couldn't believe it was so hard to come up with some good transitions in psytrance.

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4 hours ago, Psychrobatic said:

Yeah, well, that's why I don't consider him an answer to my original question. But again, I'm not sure if people that don't mix, actually feel how bad that sounds. I know I did 10 years ago when I didn't know a thing about DJing, but there's indeed people that can't noticed or don't care... To me such a bad mix is a total flow breaker. It always was to me. I mean, that was the reason why I started mixing in the first place. I couldn't believe it was so hard to come up with some good transitions in psytrance.

I like how you think... 

But the sad reality is that the only people who really care about beat matching, phrasing, mixing in key, or any other skills involved in DJing are other DJs... 

Party goers and fans of the music have no clue what the DJ is doing and they only care about the track being played. 

I on the other hand am admittedly a tough critic and the only thing I pay attention to and desire in a mix are perfect transitions done in a variety of different ways and methods.. and the more clever and difficult the transition is the more enjoyable it is for me to listen to..

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4 hours ago, Psychrobatic said:

Yeah, well, that's why I don't consider him an answer to my original question. But again, I'm not sure if people that don't mix, actually feel how bad that sounds. I know I did 10 years ago when I didn't know a thing about DJing, but there's indeed people that can't noticed or don't care... To me such a bad mix is a total flow breaker. It always was to me. I mean, that was the reason why I started mixing in the first place. I couldn't believe it was so hard to come up with some good transitions in psytrance.

So I just finished listening to one of your sets on youtube...  it was the 40 min long video showing your deck and live mixing.. 

You are a DJ.... Highly skilled and a joy to watch and listen to.. 

You have every right to criticize the current state of DJing and other DJs need to pay attention..

 

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Even though I am pretty much retired..

Started in 98 but I havnt recorded a set since 2014...

I started with vinyl and then moved on to serato. I never learned how to use a controller.. I used my technics sl-1200mkii and vestax pmc-05 mixer for everything...

But...I'll just go ahead and drop this hear if you havnt heard it.. my last and (personal best) mixed set. It's a preplanned and rehearsed set that I practiced and practiced until it was perfect... and I'm very pleased with the results...

Enjoy..

 

 

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14 hours ago, CalledByCthulhu said:

Are you serious?

Goa Gil???

Hes a legend and all but as far as skills? Hes terrible. I never understood why the record labels he was signed to that released his CDs allowed his horribly un beatmatched transitions to appear on his albums.. 

I mean no offense by saying this but the fact that you said Goa Gil is a clear indicator that you have no idea what a good DJ is..

I think you're confused i never said I thought he was good. I haven't even heard a set of his. Just bits and pieces here and there 

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9 hours ago, CalledByCthulhu said:

So I just finished listening to one of your sets on youtube...  it was the 40 min long video showing your deck and live mixing.. 

You are a DJ.... Highly skilled and a joy to watch and listen to.. 

You have every right to criticize the current state of DJing and other DJs need to pay attention..

 

Watched / Listened the same one:

 

After listening to this, the thread makes total sense.

Amazing to see how you can mix two tracks together, basically you mix the same way techno DJs mix, I guess that was the point of the thread :) Nice work!

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13 hours ago, CalledByCthulhu said:

I like how you think... 

But the sad reality is that the only people who really care about beat matching, phrasing, mixing in key, or any other skills involved in DJing are other DJs... 

Party goers and fans of the music have no clue what the DJ is doing and they only care about the track being played. 

I on the other hand am admittedly a tough critic and the only thing I pay attention to and desire in a mix are perfect transitions done in a variety of different ways and methods.. and the more clever and difficult the transition is the more enjoyable it is for me to listen to..

Ok, but one thing is to know what a DJs does, beatchmating, phrasing, etc... and another thing is to have some common sense. If you listen to psytrance, you're used to its patterns, your body is used to those patterns when you're on the dancefloor. If you don't feel something weird when there's an awful trainwrecking going on... or the phrasing is not right and the drop came way before than it should... then why are you listening and dancing to psyTRANCE music, if you cannot connect to it, jump into the journy this music allows? You're better off listening to some trap.
Jokes aside, no offense but one doesn't need to be a dj to feel that something is not right. But again, if Goa Gil has so many fans, then I guess nobody really cares and we could just set Spotify with 5s crossfade and we should be good to go.

Regarding how I mix, it's not hard at all, honestly. Anybody interested in mixing psytrance could learn it in a matter of weeks. I'm not a prodigy or highly skilled. I just care to deliver a good set as a dj. I'd love this to change someday. Faith is the last thing you lose.

Thank you all for contributing to this topic.

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145bpm from start to finish. I don't like that kind of sets.

Back in the days of Goa in most of the cases you were expecting the DJ to deliver some unreleased tunes. That was (is) one of the main thing making someone qualify as professional DJ. The other is transition skills and flow/crowd connection. Nowdays that really doesn't happen. Artists keep all the unreleased tracks for themselves, because nothing is kept "unreleased" in the days of the internet. Another reason is that artists don't make money any more from album sales so they "need" to promote their persona as DJ in order to at least get something back. 

Just quick thoughts.

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50 minutes ago, thanosp81 said:

145bpm from start to finish. I don't like that kind of sets.

Back in the days of Goa in most of the cases you were expecting the DJ to deliver some unreleased tunes. That was (is) one of the main thing making someone qualify as professional DJ. The other is transition skills and flow/crowd connection. Nowdays that really doesn't happen. Artists keep all the unreleased tracks for themselves, because nothing is kept "unreleased" in the days of the internet. Another reason is that artists don't make money any more from album sales so they "need" to promote their persona as DJ in order to at least get something back. 

Just quick thoughts.

I agree on everything. There's no unreleased stuff, only the producers have their own unreleased tracks that they can use during a show. That's fine. 
Also, it's fine that producers have to get money from live performance. Not a problem at all.

Now, good mixing and flow/crowd connection? Why doesn't that happen? There's no impediment to have that. It doesn't matter if you are just a dj playing other's people tracks or a producer, you should be delivering a good flowing set to the crowd.

I'll say it again, I don't understand why this doesn't happen on the psytrance scene, where it's much more important to have a good flow and a connection to the crowd than in any other genre, in my opinion. 

Anyway, it is what it is.

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On 9/24/2019 at 2:22 AM, astralprojection said:

I think you're confused i never said I thought he was good. I haven't even heard a set of his. Just bits and pieces here and there 

My mistake 

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(Ive not read all page two yet)

PS.  I think there should in ways be more clearity on DJ Anoebis (e.g.) instead of only (again e.g.) Anoebis pn bookings. Superheroes.. 

If all is One, Ok.. But normally i think its nice to seperate a producer from a dj .. I dont think a dj putting a "shitty" selfproduced track inside a set filled with killer tracks, and sell it as *Insert avatar name* (live) is cool.

Some djs with or without skill like to think they made the music and dont mind ppl thinking they made it and wont tell you what track that was. 

And DJ Mag Top 100.. I really do not get.. I think what a actual DJ do should be more respected / recognized than that (DJ Mag top list is s big thing i hear)

Old or modern ways,  however fashion, Ive got Huge respect to good DJs. 

https://www.facebook.com/synchronithesia/videos/1594212963948474/

 

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On 9/21/2019 at 12:31 AM, Oopie said:

Psychedelic trance music is, within a track, often a journey. The very aesthetic is that the tracks are usually 7+ minutes long following a certain philosophy of drama. It is thought/expected that the tracks end with a bang. No self respecting DJ would mix out the track before the best part, that's obvious no? We pretty much have a genre where technical "grandeur" is hard to show in your sets as there are such big gaps between the tracks. I won't go into detail, but techno and house music, widdem big starz, have more "use the tracks as tools" philosophy and it's just bound to be that in these genres you've got a bit more of that DJ charisma.

Several aesthetic features of the genre (e.g. ambient intros/outros, ending with a bang, non-standard track structure) probably originate with the use of cassette and DAT tapes in the earliest years of the scene. In some sense, the emphasis on access to obscure or unreleased material and programming/storytelling over technical mixing ability is a matter of tradition, but it doesn't have to be that way. Personally I really enjoy mixing psytrance as if it were house or techno, finding different ways to layer, blend, and combine source material. Plenty of my mixes involve 2 to 4 minute-long transitions between tracks, and occasionally 3 or 4 deck mixing. But I will admit to being less enthusiastic about mixing modern upbeat psytrance in this fashion; there's often way too much going on for aggressive mixing to yield satisfying results.

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On 9/20/2019 at 6:41 AM, Psychrobatic said:

I wish this "tradition" would end at some point. I don't think psytrance is extremely hard to mix. There are some sub-genres more difficult than others (old-school goa is hard), but is no more difficult than a pure trance mix... And certain sub-genres allows for more creative mixing than just mixing intros into outros...

I know this is not the DJ Promotion forum, but if you head to my Youtube channel you'll find videos showing how I think there's a lot of stuff to do while mixing psytrance: https://www.youtube.com/c/psychrobatic

This is an interesting channel. I really should get around to doing something similar to demonstrate my approach to mixing; YouTube has a lot of potential for DJs these days, especially if you want to make a spectacle of yourself ;)

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2 hours ago, Basilisk said:

This is an interesting channel. I really should get around to doing something similar to demonstrate my approach to mixing; YouTube has a lot of potential for DJs these days, especially if you want to make a spectacle of yourself ;)

Definitely do! The more people showing psytrance mixing doesn't have to be boring, the better. The change starts in us (?)

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