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antic604    503
On 25.10.2017 at 9:48 AM, gm446 said:

i think sonic elysium tutorial is better

 

It's a great video, but it's also a symptom of what drives (or has already driven, sadly...) the scene to narrow down to a very specific, limited sound... Type in 'psytrance kick bass' in YouTube and 90%+ of videos will be exactly about this type of "groove". It wasn't like that in the past. There was no single type of sound that everyone thought of when talking about psytrance rhythm section. I appreciate the technical depth of it all, but I'm saddened by the lack of any soul and artistry in it... For God's sake - it's a foundation of your music, it shouldn't be done off of a technical template and recipe.

But I'm probably 10 years late with this rant, so I'll just leave you to it... ;) :P

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recursion loop    495

I once talked with a manager of a major psytrance label about one of my old tracks. He said that he likes everything - the synths, the melodies etc, but the kick/bass are not up to the modern standards and for this only reason they can't release it. Go figure.

 

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antic604    503
3 hours ago, recursion loop said:

I once talked with a manager of a major psytrance label about one of my old tracks. He said that he likes everything - the synths, the melodies etc, but the kick/bass are not up to the modern standards and for this only reason they can't release it. Go figure.

 

Exactly! Post your music online, and unless it's an off-key amateur mess, it's almost guaranteed than any comments you get will be about kick & bass, as if this was everything that's important in Psytrance... :(

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Hasheeshian    24
6 hours ago, antic604 said:

It's a great video, but it's also a symptom of what drives (or has already driven, sadly...) the scene to narrow down to a very specific, limited sound... Type in 'psytrance kick bass' in YouTube and 90%+ of videos will be exactly about this type of "groove". It wasn't like that in the past. There was no single type of sound that everyone thought of when talking about psytrance rhythm section. I appreciate the technical depth of it all, but I'm saddened by the lack of any soul and artistry in it... For God's sake - it's a foundation of your music, it shouldn't be done off of a technical template and recipe.

But I'm probably 10 years late with this rant, so I'll just leave you to it... ;) :P

Agreed, while I think there are some factors that simply makes kick+bass "better" (that is, serves it purpose better, especially on dance floors), many sub-genres in the psy-spectrum feels very limited when it comes to this part of the music. Something I've grown very fond of in the forest genre is the enthusiasm break these limitations, to some extent atleast. Still, I guess some consistency is needed! For me the very special thing with psytrance is that I can listen to it for such long periods, thanks to the in, in the best of cases, perfect balance between repetition and development. Chaos and (/in) order :D

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gm446    1
On 26.10.2017 at 1:00 PM, antic604 said:

It's a great video, but it's also a symptom of what drives (or has already driven, sadly...) the scene to narrow down to a very specific, limited sound... Type in 'psytrance kick bass' in YouTube and 90%+ of videos will be exactly about this type of "groove". It wasn't like that in the past. There was no single type of sound that everyone thought of when talking about psytrance rhythm section. I appreciate the technical depth of it all, but I'm saddened by the lack of any soul and artistry in it... For God's sake - it's a foundation of your music, it shouldn't be done off of a technical template and recipe.

But I'm probably 10 years late with this rant, so I'll just leave you to it... ;) :P

i think you right about the scene who had very limited sound. however, i think this is the best tutorial because he give you the foundations for "professional" kick & bass, and you can use your creativity to make the k&b however you like. i don't see your point, there is no tutorial for being creative :)

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antic604    503
On 29.10.2017 at 12:56 PM, gm446 said:

i think you right about the scene who had very limited sound. however, i think this is the best tutorial because he give you the foundations for "professional" kick & bass, and you can use your creativity to make the k&b however you like.

i don't see your point, there is no tutorial for being creative :)

My point is most people very rarely go beyond and above what's in this tutorial, because it's somehow assumed that this is how psytrance kick+bass should sound, both in terms of the rhythm and sonic characteristic.

I actually think that such tutorials, by indirectly suggesting that the technique is more important than 'soul', make more harm than good by shifting focus away from what's important. We started using computers to make the process of tracking & editing music easier, but we've taken it now to the extreme by focusing on phase starting point, on how to remove any 'imperfections', etc. Sure, technical proficiency is incredibly important, but is the music really more enjoyable if bass' phase always starts from the same point? Or if phase of kick & bass always align perfectly? It's like painting with a ruler & caliper: perfect, but at the same boring and predictable...

---

But OK, I'll end there because I feel my perspective is different than most people's - I've been listening to psychedelic goa trance since '96 and rarely (as in almost never) go to parties, so I might be looking for different things in this music than most :)

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recursion loop    495
50 minutes ago, antic604 said:

I actually think that such tutorials, by indirectly suggesting that the technique is more important than 'soul', make more harm than good by shifting focus away from what's important. We started using computers to make the process of tracking & editing music easier, but we've taken it now to the extreme by focusing on phase starting point, on how to remove any 'imperfections', etc. Sure, technical proficiency is incredibly important, but is the music really more enjoyable if bass' phase always starts from the same point? Or if phase of kick & bass always align perfectly? It's like painting with a ruler & caliper: perfect, but at the same boring and predictable...

If you know this technique, you have a choice - you may use it or not. If you don't know this techique, you don't have such a choice. In any case psytrance is technically very complicated genre, the more various tricks and approaches you have at hand the more creative you may be.

 

And yes, carefully chosen starting phase with constant retrigger does make psytrance bass more enjoyable because in psytrance you need steady and consistent basslines having hypnotizing effect, this is one of the approaches which is proven to work best.

 

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Imba    319

Well just like in any other music genre, there is accent on certain things. Some genres are focused mostly on vocals, some on guitars, some on drums... here is kick and bass. Psytrance made it to perfection, ultimate power from kick and bass!

 

On 10/30/2017 at 2:05 PM, antic604 said:

I've been listening to psychedelic goa trance since '96 and rarely (as in almost never) go to parties

That's the problem right there! In the past I've been thinking about lots of tracks the worst, then I heard on dancefloor, complete new story. 

I've been suprised by my own stuff too. I mean I spent months and ages making them, at home they are like ok. Then I play them... boom! :D

 

It happened so many times when I attend to some party that someone play some of my tracks and I don't recognize at first ahahaha. So different on dancefloor!

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gm446    1
On 30.10.2017 at 4:12 PM, recursion loop said:

And yes, carefully chosen starting phase with constant retrigger does make psytrance bass more enjoyable because in psytrance you need steady and consistent basslines having hypnotizing effect, this is one of the approaches which is proven to work best.

 

+1

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