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Intelligent or psychedelic Dubstep?


healium
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this isn't the best place to be asking such questions. Personally speaking I like some of Noisia's and Amon Tobin's dubstepish stuff.

if you have a sub or decent monitors you might enjoy this

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I like

 

Anodyne - 4 Empires EP ( http://www.discogs.com/Anodyne-4-Empires-EP/release/3881964 )

Grinch - Chapter 1 ( http://www.discogs.com/Grinch-Chapter-1/release/3482734 )

Monolake - Ghosts ( http://www.discogs.com/Monolake-Ghosts/release/3459704 )

Photek - Avalanche EP / Sleepwalking EP / The 1 & 2 EPs with Shape Charge & Pyramid.

Phon.O - Black Boulder ( http://www.discogs.com/PhonO-Black-Boulder/release/3620688 ) nifty one...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Not sure what you mean by intelligent.

My favorite style of dub is like the machine gun style. Like excision and others :P. Not too sure how to describe this type. I suppose its more simple but I love the dark, powerful sound of it.

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Well intelligent usually refers to more minimal style where things happen on a decent pace(ironic/smart/held back) but not so overblown, as music is so often in your face. It's also not simply just minimal as minimal itself is very empty/void.

 

I am no expert on explaining this but I think that's the gist of it.

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Intelligent is not an acceptable signifier of music. You express whatever you feel however you want, if people like it or not is not important. I could say that the music I listen to is intelligent, but my opponents can say the same... and I can't dispute.

 

We can say that something is formulaic... generic... follows the same patterns... that would be more correct.

 

And my above suggestions deviates. But all they are, are interestingly different and groovy... just like I like it.

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Intelligent is not an acceptable signifier of music. You express whatever you feel however you want, if people like it or not is not important. I could say that the music I listen to is intelligent, but my opponents can say the same... and I can't dispute.

I concur.

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Well I never really think of having intelligent in the genre like IDM means it's literally intelligent 200 IQ nobody else understand whatever etc. Imo it does work as an explanatory term to what type of attitude the music has, however. You can distance shallow production and flat thematics to complex and evolved stuff and use the term there, no? I don't see the big deal.

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IDM is a rather unfortunate term, but you are ultimately right that it is not a big deal at all. I come of as pretty snide in a couple of comments above, ultimately I have to apologize for that.

 

The only genre that I can think of as genuinely intelligent, better still to say forward thinking exploratory and creative in a sense, is classical music. Where time signatures are not always fixed and generally where you have an ensemble of elements coming together and that keeps shifting.

 

Modern music to me is very boxed in, there is not much adventure mode here as a track of techno without it's 8 bars of 4 by 4 for intro another 16 bars loop another 8 bars as a bridge or break 16 bars again would get smashed immediately by critics and DJs because you would not be accustomed to either listen to it or use it in sets.

 

Unfortunately when we claim a musical piece as intelligent, we set it above other productions in a condescending matter. I'd rather say that I like my music funky, groovy, spiritual, dreamy. I mentioned stuff I liked as underground a few times but it just came of as vague and elitist sounding to the point that I simply chose to stop proclaiming the music I listen to as underground. If someone askes me what I listen to these days, I tell them that I pretty much listen to all kinds of music.

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The only genre that I can think of as genuinely intelligent, better still to say forward thinking exploratory and creative in a sense, is classical music. Where time signatures are not always fixed and generally where you have an ensemble of elements coming together and that keeps shifting.

 

imho it's rather the opposite. classical music for a large part is totally formulaic. (of course simplified and changing over the span of centuries: ) a symphony consists of 4 parts:

 

1. fast sonata in the tonic (which in turn consists of a short introduction an "exposition" (which in turn consists of the theme (in the tonic)), a repetition of the exposition, followed by a side theme (in the 5th if it's in major, or in the corresponding major key if the piece is in minor), followed by an epilogue (with the same melodic content as the side theme, and always ending in a perfect cadence), then comes the "development" which allows a bit more freedom, but essentially it's just playing around with the melodic content of the exposition, this is followed by the "reprise" which is a slightly altered repetition of the exposition, but this time the side theme is in the tonic, and finally this is followed by the "coda" which is the main theme with more intensity)),

 

2. slow sonata in the dominant

 

3. fast scherzo in the tonic (always 3/4 and with its own rules and divided into repeating phrases like ABABA)

 

4. fast rondo (with its own rules and divided into repeating phrases like ABACABA)

 

 

in this respect that stuff just as bad as fullon.

 

if i want explorative, creative music i'd rather listen to 90s edm, psy/prog rock or jazz. (the latter two often play around with changing time signatures and key changes in a much more unpredictable and creative way than classical)

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I haven't read music theory and my stupidity is obviously beyond my comprehension. Even your response here escapes me. Might I then try a different tact.

 

First of all let me just apologize for having hi-jacked the thread, I hope helium did find and is still exploring the intricacies of the dubstep genre. I'd rather suggest getting to know a bit of UK Garage as well (Locked On was a popular label, and artist El-B was kind of a lone genius back then).

 

Second, when it comes down to figuring out whats intelligent or not is probably impossible. Why am I saying that classical music is intelligent? If I might give an example. I've tried my very best to listen to The Well-Tempered Clavier but having enormous problems getting through even one of the pieces. Why am I having this much trouble? I quite frankly do not having the slightest clue, I do not understand the music, my stupidity blocks the path that other more intelligent people can tread!

 

It's frustrating when I get by music that I simply do not understand. Autechres Exai just went over my head, tried it and am having the same problem there. The music is suppose to be good but I am not enjoying it, I don't know why. I can only explain this by the fact that it might simply be beyond my comprehension.

 

Third, if I take a counter-example like that of Justin Bieber or Avicii I can _understand_ why I am not enjoying their music. It's a product, they're _acting_ following a script by their producers/managers/label-bosses. Thusly the end product is generally devoid of soul and content. Simplicity before creativity.

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Well intelligent usually refers to more minimal style where things happen on a decent pace(ironic/smart/held back) but not so overblown, as music is so often in your face. It's also not simply just minimal as minimal itself is very empty/void.

 

 

+

 

Yea by intelligent I just mean more of an "artist" album that has complexity and storytelling - rather than the simplistic "in-your-face" sound that teenagers in America like to listen to..

 

That's pretty much what I think hearing 'intelligent' (minus America, it's worldwide). Funny one of You wrote 'more minimal' and the other 'complexity', but I get it ;).

 

You might try Phaeleh, if You're into more calm (but dubby) and garage-like (among others) sounds.

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I haven't read music theory and my stupidity is obviously beyond my comprehension. Even your response here escapes me. Might I then try a different tact.

no worries, it's all pointless stuff if you are neither a classical music nor have a music teacher like the ones i had at school (all we did was learn the structures of classical music... and even there i had to refresh my knowledge using wikipedia ;) )

 

i just wanted to say that while there's no doubt that the melodies and harmonies of classical music are often very well thought out but the larger structure is most of the time following very strict rules (and sometimes the melodies too - you're not very free in your composition if you use counterpoint with the rules from back then).

 

 

regarding "intelligent" music, i'll partly agree with you. i think the same about autechre and bach. and i'd add terrafractyl to the list.

but i don't think that it's entirely the listeners comprehension, but also a missing quality of the music. i think of it as lacking "meat" or "substance". it might be well thought out and have interesting parts, but the whole just isn't captivating or driving enough to make listening a pleasant experience. also imho there's intelligent music and "intelligent" music, with the latter being just unusual and random for novelty's sake (no one can convince me that people who throw random metal objects on random string instruments from a distance are great musicians who make intelligent music. but naturally it doesn't need to be nearly as extreme as this). of course the distinction which is which lies in the ear of the listener (the listeners at above mentioned avant garde concert were utterly captivated and trying to figure out the melodic patterns)...

 

it's the same as with food. when you go to the expensive restaurants (classical, jazz, idm, ...) you'll sometimes find good food, sometimes you find food that's good, but get so little that it doesn't quench your hunger, sometimes it's more "interesting" than good and sometimes you get a scoop of vanilla ice cream drenched in vinegar (seriously... wtf?!). but often you find the best food at the cheap restaurant around the corner, where the cook cares more about good taste than it being unusual.

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It would seem that the Kinetik album by PhuturePrimitive is what you're looking for - intelligent down-tempo with that nasty dubstep attitude. It's a very, very quality release, a definite classic in my eyes. Got turned on to this project when he went on tour opening for Ott.

 

http://phutureprimitive.bandcamp.com/album/kinetik

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Can't really think of any "psychedelic dubstep". I guess Phutureprimitive is about as close as you get.

 

Most dubstep I know is the deep, dark, minimal sound. But not always those altogether. Kryptic Minds being a prime example. Too bad they've parted ways.

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