Charlie Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I agree about the overly compressed sound, that's completely flat and undynamic... Be carefull though: The most severe compression I have ever seen is Eat Static's "Science of the gods" - from '97. It sounds *very* dynamic, even though the waveform is at the peak constantly - so compression is not just compression... It probably is, coming from fruityflops, but there is an art behind it too, and it doesn't have to sound tiring. About the full-on talk. Would someone PLEASE define full-on? No music examples are allowed, describe it in musical terms... -A 528681[/snapback] Imagine a 4/4 beat, imagine the beat sounding hard, shallow and cold (a thud rather than a boom) with no warmth and no depth to it, now imagine the beat giving you a slight headache, imagine thinking to yourself "Do I have any ibuprofen or aspirin the house?", imagine discovering you don't and consequently having to lie down on the couch with cold teabags over your eyes for half an hour. That pretty much sums up the majority of full-on. Hope that helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I agree about the overly compressed sound, that's completely flat and undynamic... Be carefull though: The most severe compression I have ever seen is Eat Static's "Science of the gods" - from '97. It sounds *very* dynamic, even though the waveform is at the peak constantly - so compression is not just compression... It probably is, coming from fruityflops, but there is an art behind it too, and it doesn't have to sound tiring. About the full-on talk. Would someone PLEASE define full-on? No music examples are allowed, describe it in musical terms... -A 528681[/snapback] bombombombombombombombombombombom -prrrrrrrrrr- BOMBOMBOMBOMBOMBOMBOMBOMBOMBOM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Imagine a 4/4 beat, imagine the beat sounding hard, shallow and cold (a thud rather than a boom) with no warmth and no depth to it, now imagine the beat giving you a slight headache, imagine thinking to yourself "Do I have any ibuprofen or aspirin the house?", imagine discovering you don't and consequently having to lie down on the couch with cold teabags over your eyes for half an hour. That pretty much sums up the majority of full-on. Hope that helped. 528703[/snapback] The same description easily fits the minimal tunes. Which means the circle (of this topic...) has closed somewhat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 The same description easily fits the minimal tunes. Which means the circle (of this topic...) has closed somewhat... 528713[/snapback] I was just kidding, man. Probably should have added a smiley after it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I was just kidding, man. Probably should have added a smiley after it. 528714[/snapback] I know you were (somewhat at least), so was I... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 radi's gonna post something brilliant, I just know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 radi's gonna post something brilliant, I just know it. 528744[/snapback] and its gonna be big Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radi6404 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I hate to burst your bubble, but MFG and all the other stuff you mention isnt really that original either. Most of it is the copy / paste music of its day, thats the way it is - and if you dont see that, well, thats because you havent been listening to the music for that long. Also, the production on most modern full on is WAY ahead of the old school stuff. If you cant hear that, theres something wrong with your ears or your gear I think. Sound quality on modern releases are LIGHTYEARS ahead of the old stuff - I should know, since I have been spending the last month listening to no less than 200 old school ORIGINAL CDs followed by 200 CDs with modern production techniques all routed through a high end sound card with high end headphones (and I own a pretty high end stereo as well....). Last, but not least, I can understand that you dont like the music, and thats fair - But, "there nothing wrong with it", the music is fine and the quality is fine - The fact that you dont like its "soul" or "sound" - Well, thats just your taste buddy, we can all respect that, but you shouldnt put artists, mastering engineers, labels and everybody involved with the production of the releases down professionally just because the music doesnt fit your personal taste... And believe it or not, thats what you do when you talk bullshit like you do. Best Wishes Krell 528418[/snapback] On the one way you make me funny but on the other way you make me angry because you talk bullshit, if i talk about the production quality of oldschool i don´t talk about trust in trance 3 for example because the production quality and the synths didn´t sound that great (but musically one of the best albums ever), for example in "utopia" or "the feelings" and other songs, but listen to hallucinogen´s twisted of that time which has IMO way better production quality than the typical fullon shit with the rooling basslines, hey maybe they use expensive plugins to master it but it can´t sound good at all because of that basslines and compressed fx sounds, the rooling bassline and the hard kick sound really like from your speakers or the mp3 file is broken, i know that it is intended fullon to sond so poor quality and can´t understand why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pr0fane Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 radi's gonna post something brilliant, I just know it. 528744[/snapback] On the one way you make me funny but on the other way you make me angry because you talk bullshit, if i talk about the production quality of oldschool i don´t talk about trust in trance 3 for example because the production quality and the synths didn´t sound that great (but musically one of the best albums ever), for example in "utopia" or "the feelings" and other songs, but listen to hallucinogen´s twisted of that time which has IMO way better production quality than the typical fullon shit with the rooling basslines, hey maybe they use expensive plugins to master it but it can´t sound good at all because of that basslines and compressed fx sounds, the rooling bassline and the hard kick sound really like from your speakers or the mp3 file is broken, i know that it is intended fullon to sond so poor quality and can´t understand why? 528754[/snapback] You were right Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 You were right Charlie. 528757[/snapback] There's always a first time for everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 hmm, cant say anything about production tho, what is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Two things radi: First: Just because Twisted's production is so great doesn't mean that all releases from that period are equaly good. Second: How can you judge production quality of anything if you don't listen to the original release but onyl MP3s? Judging from your posts you hardly own any original CDs. And if you do, I doubt you own any full-on so... But it's for no use anyway I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 On the one way you make me funny but on the other way you make me angry because you talk bullshit, if i talk about the production quality of oldschool i don´t talk about trust in trance 3 for example because the production quality and the synths didn´t sound that great (but musically one of the best albums ever), for example in "utopia" or "the feelings" and other songs, but listen to hallucinogen´s twisted of that time which has IMO way better production quality than the typical fullon shit with the rooling basslines, hey maybe they use expensive plugins to master it but it can´t sound good at all because of that basslines and compressed fx sounds, the rooling bassline and the hard kick sound really like from your speakers or the mp3 file is broken, i know that it is intended fullon to sond so poor quality and can´t understand why? 528754[/snapback] You can keep repeating the same mantra untill hell freezes over. Fact is that you confuse your taste in music with production quality. What you have to understand is that whats musical to you, does not have to be musical to others... its taste. Full On sounds the way its supposed to sound, its very rare that you hear any kind of distortion in the tracks and depending on the artists there will be far more dynamics and a richer sound than what you hear in old school releases. Most of them sound better sound wise than Hallucinogen "Twisted" even if that release, for its day, was one of the best produced albums. The same can be said for almost every other classic. Too bad for you if you simply cannot grasp this fact, but really, it has all got to do with evolution within what equipment the artists can use and have access to, and their routine in using it to the greatest effect. If you think the old school artists had that many more years of experience when they produced the music they did you are also wrong - Many of them were as new to all their hardware synths etc as a 18 year old teenager is to his digital software production suite (since most would only have been producing for the last 5 years anyway, with the note that the teenies nowadays can find all sorts of online help). I dont know, perhaps theres something wrong with your stereo setup? It cant handle good sound quality :-P Best Wishes Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radi6404 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Two things radi: First: Just because Twisted's production is so great doesn't mean that all releases from that period are equaly good. Second: How can you judge production quality of anything if you don't listen to the original release but onyl MP3s? Judging from your posts you hardly own any original CDs. And if you do, I doubt you own any full-on so... But it's for no use anyway I guess. 528775[/snapback] I can´t really listen a difference between 192 kb mp3 or cd or even 320 kb mp3 or cd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Most of them sound better sound wise than Hallucinogen "Twisted" even if that release, for its day, was one of the best produced albums. 528778[/snapback] thats blasphemy! jk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radi6404 Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 thats blasphemy! jk 528800[/snapback] What are you doing smowball, why did you write jk man, ofcourse it´s not a joke, it is aktually blasphemy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 What are you doing smowball, why did you write jk man, ofcourse it´s not a joke, it is aktually blasphemy 528805[/snapback] You tell him, radi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 What are you doing smowball, why did you write jk man, ofcourse it´s not a joke, it is aktually blasphemy 528805[/snapback] lol man! he wasnt talking about the music,he was talking about the production! mastering etc! even if the music of twisted is better than recent full-on releases,production of them is better because the technology has advanced! but maybe its is actually blasphemy who knows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 thats blasphemy! jk 528800[/snapback] Sorry about that, but no psytrance label/name gets as much hype as Twisted & Simon P, whatever Simon P does, it must be hyped. However, he cant live up to the hype, and he hasnt asked for it either. HE is a good musician to be sure, but there are plenty of those in our scene, as such the most special thing about Simon P is all the hype, and not the music. Keeping that in mind, Twisted is still one of my favourite labels, and even if I think it gets far too much hype, Im not making it my personal crusade making that point clear to everybody; as is the case with the "full on haters" "progressive haters" "new school haters" "old school haters" - haters in general - Simply because I spend my time finding the good music, instead of complaining about the bad. And Ive found loads of great Simon P & Twisted stuff for sure, but nothing warranting all the hype... and since I know this is where "radi6404" is going to try and make his stand in this debate, that is where I attack :-) Only support he will get, is from the Twisted Fanatics... but, great thing about sound quality, we have all got ears and the ability to make up our own minds. Listen to Vibrasphere "Lime Structure" - Theres sound quality for you! Or new Silicon Sound, or Protoculture, or Panick.... Best Wishes Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 I can´t really listen a difference between 192 kb mp3 or cd or even 320 kb mp3 or cd. 528783[/snapback] The funny thing is, people are still gonna hammer out keystrokes at this guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 shit, this thread is getting really interesting, indeed it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Sorry about that, but no psytrance label/name gets as much hype as Twisted & Simon P, whatever Simon P does, it must be hyped. However, he cant live up to the hype, and he hasnt asked for it either. HE is a good musician to be sure, but there are plenty of those in our scene, as such the most special thing about Simon P is all the hype, and not the music. Keeping that in mind, Twisted is still one of my favourite labels, and even if I think it gets far too much hype, Im not making it my personal crusade making that point clear to everybody; as is the case with the "full on haters" "progressive haters" "new school haters" "old school haters" - haters in general - Simply because I spend my time finding the good music, instead of complaining about the bad. And Ive found loads of great Simon P & Twisted stuff for sure, but nothing warranting all the hype... and since I know this is where "radi6404" is going to try and make his stand in this debate, that is where I attack :-) Only support he will get, is from the Twisted Fanatics... but, great thing about sound quality, we have all got ears and the ability to make up our own minds. Listen to Vibrasphere "Lime Structure" - Theres sound quality for you! Or new Silicon Sound, or Protoculture, or Panick.... Best Wishes Krell 528815[/snapback] You can harp on about sound quality all you like but a shiny turd is still a turd. Good music has a way of shining through poor production or engineering, just look at Bob Dylan's early tracks; the sound quality is piss-poor but people love them because they're full of soul and emotion - something fast evaporating from modern-day psy music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 You can harp on about sound quality all you like but a shiny turd is still a turd. Good music has a way of shining through poor production or engineering, just look at Bob Dylan's early tracks; the sound quality is piss-poor but people love them because they're full of soul and emotion - something fast evaporating from modern-day psy music. 528828[/snapback] Where did I say that music is all about sound quality, and why are you trying to make it sound like I did? We were talking about production quality, musical quality is up to the individual to establish, and cannot be debatted as such since its a matter of taste. Are you about to commit the same mistake as "radi6404" here ? Now - I will give you the benefit of the doubt in regards to you putting words in my mouth and tell you that I enjoy old louis armstrong and classical recordings equally much as newly produced music. Sure I would have loved better recording, but the music as such and the effect of it is still highly pleasurable. So - Of course you are right, but I wasnt arguing otherwise, so I hope you realize how misplaced your comment was. Best Wishes Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faze Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Krell is my hero...for today at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted May 16, 2006 Share Posted May 16, 2006 Where did I say that music is all about sound quality, and why are you trying to make it sound like I did? We were talking about production quality, musical quality is up to the individual to establish, and cannot be debatted as such since its a matter of taste. Are you about to commit the same mistake as "radi6404" here ? Now - I will give you the benefit of the doubt in regards to you putting words in my mouth and tell you that I enjoy old louis armstrong and classical recordings equally much as newly produced music. Sure I would have loved better recording, but the music as such and the effect of it is still highly pleasurable. So - Of course you are right, but I wasnt arguing otherwise, so I hope you realize how misplaced your comment was. Best Wishes Krell 528837[/snapback] Fair enough. It's just, from your posts, it seemed that you focus largely on sound quality, as if maybe it's the deciding factor in whether a tune is good or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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