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RTP    102

Hello ... I have managed without another 911 call so far. Tonight I'd say it's the first time that there is a little bit of light shimmering in the tunnel ... let's hope it won't be a train.

What is odd is that the temperature rose to 37,5 yesterday and I got a bit of a sore throat now - but I believe this might be my own immune system finally checking "hey, there is something in the system that we need to get rid of". I'll watch it closely, but I feel a bit better ("better by the margin of the thickness of a coin" is the wording that came to me in the night) ... so I'll just hang on.

I have came across this video and I am now in a good enough state to watch what this "thing" is doing to me ... really interesting - and it also explains the blood coughing in my opinion. You should watch it, it might prevent damage:

Cytokine storms are mentioned too - but they don't seem so dangerous, it's just a natural body reaction, right? Or did I miss something there?

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Cytokine storms are mentioned too - but they don't seem so dangerous, it's just a natural body reaction, right? Or did I miss something there?

i think you missed something there. worst case scenario; they are extremely dangerous and basically its the immune system going into hyperdrive killing all your internal organs in the process, causing heart attacks and god knows what else, and results in death. and there is no known cure for it. 

but, its not fatal all the times, many people here in sweden seem to pull through, after said storm. i think the numbers here are 80% living through the Intensive care unit, where all the cytokine storm and hypoxemia patients are. 

Theres also doctors saying the oxygen thing is like high altitude sickness, and that the lungs are okay and the damage to the lungs seen in pictures (the white lungs) are from ventilators themselves damaging the lungs. but somehow there is not a transmission of oxygen from the lungs to the bloodstream.

 

hopefully they figure this thing out sooner than later and can correctly start to treat people, god knows how many lungs have been damaged due to overcompression from the ventilators :/ when in fact the problem lies elsewhere.

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RTP    102
3 hours ago, astralprojection said:

i think you missed something there. worst case scenario; they are extremely dangerous and basically its the immune system going into hyperdrive killing all your internal organs in the process, causing heart attacks and god knows what else, and results in death. and there is no known cure for it. 

but, its not fatal all the times, many people here in sweden seem to pull through, after said storm. i think the numbers here are 80% living through the Intensive care unit, where all the cytokine storm and hypoxemia patients are. 

hopefully they figure this thing out sooner than later and can correctly start to treat people, god knows how many lungs have been damaged due to overcompression from the ventilators :/ when in fact the problem lies elsewhere.

uh, thanks for clarifying ... I indeed missed something there then about the Cytokine storms :( ... sounds not good at all

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Theres also doctors saying the oxygen thing is like high altitude sickness, and that the lungs are okay and the damage to the lungs seen in pictures (the white lungs) are from ventilators themselves damaging the lungs. but somehow there is not a transmission of oxygen from the lungs to the bloodstream.

YES! I am no doctor but I would agree ... an awful lot of this sickness reminds me of my pneumonia in Peru which was in high altitude, symptoms are similar ... only the blood was not there back then. The doctors who checked me saw no damaged lungs, but I have trouble getting enough air - there definitely is not enough oxygen passing into the bloodstream I would say! Bronchodilatadors help a little with this, fortunately...

Please everybody stay safe!! All the best!!

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Penzoline    355
20 hours ago, RTP said:

uh, thanks for clarifying ... I indeed missed something there then about the Cytokine storms :( ... sounds not good at all

YES! I am no doctor but I would agree ... an awful lot of this sickness reminds me of my pneumonia in Peru which was in high altitude, symptoms are similar ... only the blood was not there back then. The doctors who checked me saw no damaged lungs, but I have trouble getting enough air - there definitely is not enough oxygen passing into the bloodstream I would say! Bronchodilatadors help a little with this, fortunately...

Please everybody stay safe!! All the best!!

Man please get to a respirator if you have even worse trouble breathing. :s I hope it gets better.

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RTP    102
17 hours ago, Penzoline said:

Man please get to a respirator if you have even worse trouble breathing. :s I hope it gets better.

Thanks, yes I was monitoring it closely ... it's now slowly getting better here - so I don't think I need it. Hoping that it will go further up ... it looks like it! I was able to sleep in the night and feel better today.

The reason why I was reluctant to call 911 is: in the hospital I might suffer from additional infection - especially the one they took me to, my dad was in there some months ago and he developed a bad lung inflammation which he contacted in the hospital - which fortunately was cured with antibiotics, but I suspect that is one of these hospital germs ... and I'm afraid of those, because if Covid-19 and these come together, it's really bad.
I called around doctors if somebody would get me some oxygen ... but nobody of them could. I managed with the bronchodilatador alone.
And since the problems were only there in the night, I tried to lie awake more and then sleep on the day...

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Padmapani    444

 

On 4/14/2020 at 8:39 PM, RTP said:

The things that happen with the tests here are really a mess. I still have no result from the first two...

Yes, the hypopnea / apnea is very strange also to all doctors I talked to about it. I am suspecting that I had a condition already and the virus worsened it greatly. I was a snorer, as people who I traveled with reported - and I have had the occasional case of being not well rested after the night. But never to this extent ... so I suspect that the virus made it greatly worse -- would be logical: the lungs can currently not take the strain of my "ordinary sleep apnea condition" (which was hardly noticeable before) now that they are stressed out with the Covid-19...

I don't take any opioids, don't need them as I have not much of a cough.

I have been prescribed a bronchodilatador (emergency asthma medication) - this helps with breathing in the night, but it does not fully cure the process that I do not breathe by myself. It's very weird. I have to watch it closely and call ambulance if it's not bearable - will do that.

Fever is of no use at all as an indicator. I have just a bit raised temperature such as 37,2...

that seems like the most likely explanation. if you had very mild sleep apnea you might not have noticed it before and not need any sort of treatment usually, it could very well become noticable when you have an infection in your lungs.

 

On 4/16/2020 at 1:25 PM, RTP said:

 Cytokine storms are mentioned too - but they don't seem so dangerous, it's just a natural body reaction, right? Or did I miss something there?

 

On 4/16/2020 at 4:20 PM, astralprojection said:

i think you missed something there. worst case scenario; they are extremely dangerous and basically its the immune system going into hyperdrive killing all your internal organs in the process, causing heart attacks and god knows what else, and results in death. and there is no known cure for it. 

but, its not fatal all the times, many people here in sweden seem to pull through, after said storm. i think the numbers here are 80% living through the Intensive care unit, where all the cytokine storm and hypoxemia patients are. 

Theres also doctors saying the oxygen thing is like high altitude sickness, and that the lungs are okay and the damage to the lungs seen in pictures (the white lungs) are from ventilators themselves damaging the lungs. but somehow there is not a transmission of oxygen from the lungs to the bloodstream.

hopefully they figure this thing out sooner than later and can correctly start to treat people, god knows how many lungs have been damaged due to overcompression from the ventilators :/ when in fact the problem lies elsewhere.

we had a whole semester course on hypoxia/lung failure at university.

so yeah, a cytokine storm is not just a normal reaction of the immune system. it's going into overdrive releasing so many messenger molecules that attract too many immune cells to the point of inflammation leading to tissue damage and making all those immune cells clog your blood vessels. this is ultimately what causes multi-organ failure because the oxygen in your lungs cannot be transported to the rest of the body without the appropriate blood flow. also the organs that receive most blood flow in your body (kidneys) can also get clogged.

the good news is that it's not something to worry about at home. it's rather what gets you from serious but stable condition when you're already in the intensive care unit to a 50/50 chance of survival.

 

the ventilators do cause lung damage if you're on them for too long (they also increase the chances of superinfection), but no one is put on a ventilator if it's not strictly necessary. doctors know the dangers of ventilators well enough. so when you cannot get the oxygen you need by breathing normally you'll first be given oxygen. as you increase the oxygen concentration of the air you get from 20% to almost 100% you can get (roughly estimated) five times the amount of oxygen per breath as you'd usually would. this is enough for most cases and only if the condition worsens enough that this is still not sufficient to get enough oxygen into the bloodstream people will be put on a ventilator.

 

On 4/18/2020 at 10:36 AM, RTP said:

Thanks, yes I was monitoring it closely ... it's now slowly getting better here - so I don't think I need it. Hoping that it will go further up ... it looks like it! I was able to sleep in the night and feel better today.

The reason why I was reluctant to call 911 is: in the hospital I might suffer from additional infection - especially the one they took me to, my dad was in there some months ago and he developed a bad lung inflammation which he contacted in the hospital - which fortunately was cured with antibiotics, but I suspect that is one of these hospital germs ... and I'm afraid of those, because if Covid-19 and these come together, it's really bad.
I called around doctors if somebody would get me some oxygen ... but nobody of them could. I managed with the bronchodilatador alone.
And since the problems were only there in the night, I tried to lie awake more and then sleep on the day...

good to hear you're feeling better!

staying out of hospital is definitely a good idea if you don't need it. getting a bacerial superinfection in the hospital together with covid was a problem in china in february.

bronchodilators are effective first line treatment here. i give them out to people with all kinds of respiratory infections multiple times every day. i'm no doctor but i don't think oxygen would have been the right next step here with you having no troubles breathing at day. it's rather something usually given to copd patients or in hospitals. for more serious sleep apnea a cpap-mask is the standard treatment. it just applies a little pressure to keep the airways open as usual at night despite the muscles around the throat area relaxing. but even this would be overkill right now imho.

anyway, a speedy recovery! (i'm sure you'll be much better soon. the usual time between first complaints to a doctor and recovery is somewhere around two weeks)

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RTP    102

Hello ... an update again, I have been staying low the past 2 weeks and it got better, I was able to go out again ... and yesterday I was at the lung doctor and got a check up: lungs are OK.

I do still have the one or other bad night ... but I hope that it will not go really bad again. I have returned to work and so far I'm alright.

Sports will have to wait. For the moment I am "NRTP" : "not running to psytrance" ...

The doctor recommeded me a check for sleep apnea which will be done in June in first steps ... if I get results, I might post them here for completion.

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Padmapani    444

thanks for the update. i was a little worried not seeing any posts for the last two weeks. good to hear you're feeling better. 
though i am surprised that it takes such a long time. this virus sure is a nasty thing…

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Well, the USA is shitting the bed so badly with this, we're now quarantined out of Europe indefinitely.

That kinda sucks... =(

God damn this shit...

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RTP    102

Yes it sucks really bad to hear the news from USA - I have sympathy for you people ... I hope the winter is not going to f*k you over, hopefully you'll be through the worst before it comes...

Cases rising here in Europe too though ... people coming home from "Ballermann" bringing the sickness - a "Summer Ischgl"...

:unsure:

What is very odd is, that I have had the feeling of a strange taste and smell the last days - this kind of smell (slightly metallic and "bloody") I remember from the time when I was sick ... never made a big deal about it, but now that I am tasting it again it feels funny ... mabe it is indeed coming back? ("coming back" as in "germ concentration rising again")

(it's interesting, people say "loss of taste and smell", but I don't belive it's complete loss, it's just that this metallic taste overshadows everything, that's how I would put it ... it feels like you have eaten something very very hot (although you didn't) and burnt your tongue = you taste less, not nothing, but less ... know what I mean?)

But actually, believing what experts say - that you have not much immunity and are immune only for a short time - the re-infection or "coming in contact with the virus again" can MAYBE even have a good side: when the virus is not completely gone but the body encounters it still (in sub-sickening concnetrations), the defenses maybe remmber the virus longer and will not entirely stop the antibody production, thus maybe resulting in greater resistency or even immunity when the virus returns "big time" in winter...?

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Padmapani    444
1 hour ago, RTP said:

Cases rising here in Europe too though ... people coming home from "Ballermann" bringing the sickness - a "Summer Ischgl"...

:unsure:

But actually, believing what experts say - that you have not much immunity and are immune only for a short time - the re-infection or "coming in contact with the virus again" can MAYBE even have a good side: when the virus is not completely gone but the body encounters it still (in sub-sickening concnetrations), the defenses maybe remmber the virus longer and will not entirely stop the antibody production, thus maybe resulting in greater resistency or even immunity when the virus returns "big time" in winter...?

sadly, people are really getting careless now (i also understand it a little. i too want this shit to be over and finally go to parties again). right where i work we are austria's hotspot now.  and almost daily people are coming in to ask for directions to the corona test station…

 

that's a definite possibility (just to be clear, the virus has to be gone from the body, but the immune system does keep some memory even if it's not enough for complete immunity). with some other coronaviruses you can get infected by exactly the same virus again after a year or two. maybe the only reason they aren't as serious as covid-19 is that we all have aquired a bit of immunity because everyone has already come in contact with them as children? who knows?

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I really feel for the Americans. Let alone covid but election coming up, with two morons, and then you have the lockdowns and youre losing your lifesavings and the BLM riots going on, and just average murder rates going up especially in Boston, wtf is going on in Boston? Well, this whole world has gone to shit and every day I live I consider a lease. It shouldnt have to be like this, but what can you do.

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RTP    102
22 hours ago, Padmapani said:

i also understand it a little. i too want this shit to be over and finally go to parties again

I fully understand that ... yes, three times yes, we all want it to be over (well maybe really bad people don't, but we don't care about these) ... however, it may not be taken lightly. One overlooked cluster and you are back to the start. I think it's better to cut down on partying this year and then we can be the merrier next year in return...

It's bad to hear that from your town ... I hope the situation does not escalate ... at the moment it's getting worse still, I'm even a little worried to stop for a break on the motorway in that area (mostly I have to go for a wee around there) ... have been procrastrinating a few travels, but I can't procrastrinate forever. Then again, we here aren't any better - cases in Vienna are rising too.

22 hours ago, astralprojection said:

Well, this whole world has gone to shit and every day I live I consider a lease. It shouldnt have to be like this, but what can you do.

I have begun to think, what if we, as humanity, really have seen the peak of "everything", the best state possible? We have been there in 2019. At the peak. Now we are below again, we still see the peak, it's "just up there", but I don't think we will climb it again. Not in our life. First there's still Coronavirus to beat - and this might be a very long race - then we will face ever-worsening climate problems (38 degrees Celsius in Siberia already right now ... I mean, come on) ... it's going to be tough. And it's a really de-motivating outlook that it will all only get worse, slowly and not steadily, but still in downwards direction...?

"Whatever you wanna do in life, do it now, it'll only get worse with time." ...

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My hopes of attending ZNA next summer feel like a pipe dream right now. Few countries are even allowing USA passports to travel into their countries and this will likely hold until a vaccine is approved and released. Maybe if we get a new government in place after this election we can get some global collaboration going on but the election is still four months away...

 

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