The sick of the sickest

[Anu Katariina]

Makes me wanna puke http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/mother-who-married-son-faces-incest-charges-for-marrying-daughter-oklahoma-spann-us-a7231501.html

[psychedelic chipmunk]

That is just...disgusting.. how does one even get the idea to marry a sibling, no less their own child?????? I just need words..but there are not enough words...mind fully blown. Put on some goa, try to forget ..ignorance is bliss!

[SixZeroFou4]

That is just...disgusting.. how does one even get the idea to marry a sibling, no less their own child?????? I just need words..but there are not enough words...mind fully blown. Put on some goa, try to forget ..ignorance is bliss!

Im pretty sure the regimes the usa removed that were raping children and women, using them as slaves, was worse. That makes me sicker. I'm glad they were dealt with.

[Anu Katariina]

That is just...disgusting.. how does one even get the idea to marry a sibling, no less their own child?????? I just need words..but there are not enough words...mind fully blown. Put on some goa, try to forget ..ignorance is bliss!

Yep, very sad. And ignorance is sometimes a bliss, indeed.

 

Im pretty sure the regimes the usa removed that were raping children and women, using them as slaves, was worse. That makes me sicker. I'm glad they were dealt with.

What are you talking about? Slavery? Like sex slavery, or?

[Padmapani]

they're not hurting anyone, nor are they going to get (retarded) children with each other. both are adults. i don't see the problem.

[Starkraver]

Some very interesting views and learnings here.

 

Anu, I find it strange that you posted this topic with this title.

It is uncommon but why are you so disgusted by the idea that you want to puke. Also, newspapers are full of bullshit , we don't even know their stories.

 

Also, I expect you to read interesting news like

Duterte calling Obama - A son of a whore also Pope Francis & UN as sons of whores he he.

[Anu Katariina]

they're not hurting anyone, nor are they going to get (retarded) children with each other. both are adults. i don't see the problem.

So basically you are saying that all that does not do physical harm is all right. That saddens me. All mental/spiritual harm like excluded. Think for a second. Could you fuck your own daughter/son and marry her/him if she/he was an adult? I am happy these things are criminalized in the EU. But man, I am disappointed at you @Padmapani. I thought you are an intellectual but maybe not then.

 

Also, newspapers are full of bullshit , we don't even know their stories.

 

Certainly, but based on if the article is right.

 

Also, I expect you to read interesting news like

Duterte calling Obama - A son of a whore also Pope Francis & UN as sons of whores he he.

Don't expect anything.

 

The world is full of by-blows but incest is hell of another thing.

 

 

Finally: I started this thread so I came to see the comments. From now on, whatever the comments are, I will stick to my plan to stay out of psynews in order to do some studying. Take care ppl, keep the goa music alive

[Starkraver]

Tata

[Padmapani]

So basically you are saying that all that does not do physical harm is all right. That saddens me. All mental/spiritual harm like excluded. Think for a second. Could you fuck your own daughter/son and marry her/him if she/he was an adult? I am happy these things are criminalized in the EU. But man, I am disappointed at you @Padmapani. I thought you are an intellectual but maybe not then.

no. i am saying where there's no harm, there should be no prohibition. don't force your own morals upon other people. if the son/daughter is an adult he/she can decide for them what to do with their life. if i would want to marry my own son/daughter (if i had one) is completely irrelevant. i also don't want to do bodybuilding, boxing or to inject heroin. i wouldn't want to do either and find those activities pretty pointless or even stupid. but i think that everyone should be allowed to do these things if they like. it's their life.

in the same way, it is just the business of two consenting adults what they do with each other. it should be none of mine and none of your business. if you come with the argument "it's sick, it's disgusting, it isn't right" you impose your own moral standards on them. by exactly the same reasoning homosexuality was considered a sin and was made illegal in the past (it still is in some countries. india, which for most other things has very modern legislation, comes to mind).

[MrAnarchy]

no. i am saying where there's no harm, there should be no prohibition. don't force your own morals upon other people. if the son/daughter is an adult he/she can decide for them what to do with their life. if i would want to marry my own son/daughter (if i had one) is completely irrelevant. i also don't want to do bodybuilding, boxing or to inject heroin. i wouldn't want to do either and find those activities pretty pointless or even stupid. but i think that everyone should be allowed to do these things if they like. it's their life.

in the same way, it is just the business of two consenting adults what they do with each other. it should be none of mine and none of your business. if you come with the argument "it's sick, it's disgusting, it isn't right" you impose your own moral standards on them. by exactly the same reasoning homosexuality was considered a sin and was made illegal in the past (it still is in some countries. india, which for most other things has very modern legislation, comes to mind).

I was literally gonna write exactly the same argument and then I scrolled down and saw you beat me to it.

 

Anu, your moral closed-mindedness isnt really represenative of your own intellect, so lets not start making this personal.

 

I would say something but would end up only repeating everything Pad said. So count his comment as my opinion as well!

[Starkraver]

Well said , I was expecting it yesterday (edit - alright I see it's still Monday over there)

 

And yes we do have this archaic law (sec 377 IIRC titled unnatural sexual acts) some promising developments in this realm may be in a few years LGBT community will get their deserved rights. I personally know couple of lesbians, they are people just like others. I thought it was weird before I knew them but now it's just their personal sexual preference. I can see how this can extended to the above situation and you did just that Padmapani.

 

But the situation at hand is a sensitive one given the emotions attached to a mother / child relationship and it is these strong emotions which evoke strong dislike/disgust if a sexual component is added to it even though with consent.

 

From what I know Anu through our conversations she is a broad minded woman(that's why the comment "I find it strange that Anu posted it") but here as you can see her motherly instinct kicked in hence the disgust.

 

 

Also, we have many archaic laws! Some from 1800's! Can you believe that. One more that might interest you is the sedition law. But over the years our Supreme Court has curtailed misuse of this by the executive organ.

 

Edit - I was replying to padmapani's post but Mr.Anarchy is quick with typing and I have a runny nose! (Fuck the cold!)

[Starkraver]

This is the Offtopic that I miss! Down with the .... Well why invite the devil

 

 

 

Edited!

[Starkraver]

The fact is these things go on around us. But not in peaceful meaningful? way as above but in more harmful of ways.

Just today I read about a father molesting her teenage daughter and this asshole is well learned man in one the prestigious bureaucratic post! I was shocked. And the worst part is the treatment that mother and her daughter will recieve in our conservative society. That girl is scarred for life! I don't think the girl above(from the marriage) is harmed mentally or physically. So it's definitely better

[Padmapani]

But the situation at hand is a sensitive one given the emotions attached to a mother / child relationship and it is these strong emotions which evoke strong dislike/disgust if a sexual component is added to it even though with consent.

 

Also, we have many archaic laws! Some from 1800's! Can you believe that. One more that might interest you is the sedition law. But over the years our Supreme Court has curtailed misuse of this by the executive organ.

of course. there's also the point about recessive traits coming to the foreground and leading to disabled children when closely related people get children. but that's not applicable here. also newer research showed that the problem isn't as bad as originally though. for instance cousins don't have a statistically measurable increase in risk for hereditary diseases (marriage of cousins is also allowed over here, though occurs pretty seldom. the social stigma is stronger than the law.)

 

i can absolutely believe that. i think many of our laws are even older (we exist as a "modern" state for a much longer time). additionally, as far as i know (i'm by far no expert in law) most of our civil laws are based on the civil laws of the roman empire . some of it should be pretty obvious things, but i'm sure there are also plenty of ridiculous outdated things to be found.

i just looked into our online law database. the currently valid version of our "general civil law code" apparently is from 1812, some parts of it use archaic spelling and talk about the austrian monarchy (which stopped existing 100 years ago).

[Starkraver]

Ha ha, ours are derived from the Brits. We fondly remember them especially when sec 377 (criminalising unnatural sex - punishment imprisonment for life or 10 years, take that! ) sec 124 (sedition law) are in news

[Anu Katariina]

Well, what to say..we obviously disagree at major points. I just think if a mom and a child make a relationship as adults there has likely been "the activity" going on in the earlier years..it is not like: hey, we love each other romantically when the child is 20 something. And it is for to blame the mother in sucha case, it is not very healthy growing up of a family relationship. What was said about homosexuality up here is not any relevant. Homosexuals don't make realatioships with their siblings or if they do it hasn't anything to do with the homosexuality itself. Peace!

[MrAnarchy]

Homosexuality is relevant here, very much so. I dont see the diffrence between saying that homosexuality is sick or that incest is. You cant morally accept one, and disregard the other. If you do, you are a hypocrite. I dont hold romantic feelings for any of my siblings, but that doesnt mean its impossible or not normal. In the past, mating with a sibling wasnt such a rarity. The only reason why we as a society find it weird or a taboo is because it is viewed as a sin, by religion and by law. A sibling is just another person.

 

Actually, when I was a very little kid (4 or 5yo) I was "in love" with a girl I didnt know was a distant relative. When I told my mother that, she shunned me and told me that I cant love my own sister and that I must abandon my feelings, which I did. Its a cute and innocent story, but also a perfect example of why you and most of society think its sick. YOU WERE TAUGHT SO!

[Anu Katariina]

Some references: http://www.livescience.com/10107-freud-incest.html

 

"Incest taboos

 

Cultures around the world have prohibitions against incest, and for good reason. Inbreeding brings together rare mutations that can cause severe birth defects. In the 17th century, Charles II of Spain, the last of the Spanish Habsburgs – known for their inbreeding – was infertile and could not properly chew his food thanks to a congenital overbite.

For nearly 100 years, researchers have been split on the origin of incest taboos. In 1913, Viennese psychiatrist Sigmund Freud proposed they exist because we have incestuous urges that need to be repressed.

In contrast to Freud, the Finnish sociologist Edward Westermarck argued in 1891 that people have evolved a biological mechanism to avoid incest. According to Westermarck, people who grew up together would find each other unattractive.

For the past few decades, as Freud's influence has waned in psychology, researchers have tended to side with Westermarck. Some evolutionary psychologists have proposed that we subconsciously estimate the relatedness of other people, using cues such as whether we've played together and spent lots of time together. If the relatedness is too high, the thought of sex with the other person triggers "incest avoidance" mechanisms, better known as disgust."

 

And http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.1086/203603

[MrAnarchy]

First, Sigmund Freud is an overrated idiot. Second, everything else you said makes sense, and probably is true. Genetic diseases especially! I study medicine and I am aware of how genetics work. But nonetheless none of that is a rule or fact for every single person on this planet, obviously.

 

No one has the right to imprison you because of who you chose to have a relationship with. The mother and the child in this case were consentive. If you want, you can judge from the distance with your disgust, but dont take away their freedom of choice.

 

Now about the increased risk of genetic diseases, as a future doctor, I would just inform them about the risk. Nothing else. Its their choice and its their child.

[Anu Katariina]

First, Sigmund Freud is an overrated idiot.

Somewhat, yes.

 

 

Now about the increased risk of genetic diseases, as a future doctor, I would just inform them about the risk.

For a doctor the right approach certainly is through biology, not criminal law

 

I didn't know you are a med student. That's cool to hear. I was also, 5/6 of the degree done until I quitted med school due to complicated post-war circumstances, something personal. I was attending hum aid work in ex-Yugoslavian splitting war. You have to understand: what I said about the Serbs in the another thread is something I've seen and been there. It was a rough generalisation, though. Kind of setting some more fire to that USA debate. For you all the best luck with your studies