Quantum Leap: We need to decide if the Genre is Psytrance or Goa Trance. Please help end the confusion and redundancy.

[djmaxfactor1995]

Respected Members of Psociety:

 

We need to evolve. I am a retired professional Psy-DJ (1995-1998). I love psytrance. Psytrance perfectly defines this type of electronic music. However, Goa Trance has also been describing it, as well. It has been a little over 17 years since the term psytrance has been widely accepted as the proper name for the genre. Yet, people still carry-on this confusing, redundant and nonsensical dual-genre called Goa/Psytrance or some obscure combination of Goa, Psy, and Trance. There is no need to use two names for this music. With my knowledge and experience, I vote that we end the association of Goa. And from here forward, use Psytrance to officially denote this genre. Even if I look at the sub-genres, I can logically determine that psytrance is the the genre they belong. Goa is said to be the birth place of the first Psytrance track. If you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Nevada that you would love.

 

Please let us decide this once and for all. I believe this will unbind this music from a false past and create an revolution of new psytrance music that will be better than ever.

 

Thank you for your consideration.

 

Psyncerely,

 

Max Factor (Psytrance DJ, 1995-1998)

[Rotwang]

We need to evolve. I am a retired professional Psy-DJ (1995-1998).

Really? I had no idea. You should mention this in more of your posts.

 

I love psytrance. Psytrance perfectly defines this type of electronic music. However, Goa Trance has also been describing it, as well. It has been a little over 17 years since the term psytrance has been widely accepted as the proper name for the genre. Yet, people still carry-on this confusing, redundant and nonsensical dual-genre called Goa/Psytrance or some obscure combination of Goa, Psy, and Trance. There is no need to use two names for this music.

Although the terminology is not universally agreed upon, here on Psynews people generally use the term "Goa trance" and "psytrance" to mean different things - specifically, "Goa trance" refers to the subgenre of psytrance which distinguishes acts like Pleiadians and Filteria from those belonging to the other subgenres. As to whether this kind of music deserves to be associated with Goa, maybe it doesn't. But the fact is that it's useful to be able to refer to stuff that sounds more like Pleiadians than 1200 Mics or Parasense or Ace Ventura or Texas Faggott using a term that's shorter than "stuff that sounds more like Pleiadians than 1200 Mics or Parasense or Ace Ventura or Texas Faggott", and if you use the term "Goa trance" for that purpose then everyone on Psynews will know what you mean.

 

Max Factor (Psytrance DJ, 1995-1998)

 

Really? I had no [etc.]

[Sideffect...]

You are asking to erase the past?

 

What was called Goatrance back in 1998, is still Goatrance.

 

The difference is so simple. You post you were there as a dj!

 

Then you had to notice the change of pattern from Goatrance to Psychedelic trance.

 

It was so obvious. People complained, others loved it, some even left!

 

It is impossible to deny imo.

 

EDIT

 

Is this yours?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf5kdWEBP5k

 

[Penzoline]

Yes it was around 98 was it that the genre started splitting up into different types, easily recognizable apart. Like Darshan - Spectra to Darshan - Awakening. Other is obvious goatrance and the other is like techno fusion whatever. The melodies were gone. It's all in the production!

 

Psytrance

 

Forest Psytrance

 

Goatrance

X

 

Full-on

X

 

Twilight Full-on

X

 

Darkpsy

 

Forest Goa

X

 

Everything that didn't have the word goa in it, belongs in the psytrance section.

 

Or so. I've always found it easy to separate everything. Pre-98 I classify pretty much everything goatrance with things like acid/trance elements revolving around them and post 98 the production speaks for itself.

 

Edit: Well this is my personal view on it at least. Not stating facts of course, but you can clearly see all of these sound different.

[travbrad1001]

I guess technically goa would be a subgenre of psytrance, along with full-on, darkpsy, suomi, forest etc. I still associate "psytrance" with more full-on type music though.

 

I don't get too hung up on genre names though. If I enjoy the music I'll like it whether you call it Goa, Psy, or BananaHippyDance. For what it's worth, my iPod only has "Trance" which includes anything from Pleiadians to Ocelot to Hallucinogen to Kino Oko to Jaia to Texas Faggot, etc

[TranceVisuals]

I remember the conversations like yesterday ('95-'96ish) I had with my friends as we tripped on phrygian caps discussing the music we listened to, and the problem we had describing it to people we were introducing it to as. Describing it as drug/high music didn't seem to work well.

We thought the term goa-trance a misnomer, as none had been the psytrance, and in fact nearly everyone we know hadn't been there either, and neither we any of likely to go anytime soon as we weren't part of the public school trustafarians crew.

We liked the term trance, as it described the activity which we engaged, with body and/or mind. However rather than goa, as we also thought the idea of going elsewhere and partying a bit ungroovey, rather than making were one was groovey, the term psychedelic seemed a much better fit. As at the time and location in the far north of england, it was a scene catergorised by psychedelic usage, driven around the local magic mushrooms, and creative industry that had lingered underground in the region since the 60's. Such as the FullMoon Magic Mushroom Parties in the 70-80's.

So rather than goa-trance, we started to call it psychedelic trance, it described what we did quite nicely, and shortly it became abbreviated down to psytrance. It came to us as no surprise, a matter of the synchronicity of the times, that the term psytrance became wide spread and popular in the wider community.

Anyway that is just my story and perspective on things, and why I(we) used to call it psy(chedelic) trance back-in-the-day™.

[Tom!]

Respected Members of Psociety:

 

We need to evolve. I am a retired professional Psy-DJ (1995-1998). I love psytrance. Psytrance perfectly defines this type of electronic music. However, Goa Trance has also been describing it, as well. It has been a little over 17 years since the term psytrance has been widely accepted as the proper name for the genre. Yet, people still carry-on this confusing, redundant and nonsensical dual-genre called Goa/Psytrance or some obscure combination of Goa, Psy, and Trance. There is no need to use two names for this music. With my knowledge and experience, I vote that we end the association of Goa. And from here forward, use Psytrance to officially denote this genre. Even if I look at the sub-genres, I can logically determine that psytrance is the the genre they belong. Goa is said to be the birth place of the first Psytrance track. If you believe that, I have some ocean front property in Nevada that you would love.

 

Please let us decide this once and for all. I believe this will unbind this music from a false past and create an revolution of new psytrance music that will be better than ever.

 

Thank you for your consideration.

 

Psyncerely,

 

Max Factor (Psytrance DJ, 1995-1998)

 

riiighhhhttt

 

so you think

 

This (Psy)

 

and

 

This (Goa)

 

should be classed as the same thing? You do realise that Goa Trance was around 17 years ago as well? What would you class Dimension 5 as then? They're certainly not psy trance!

[Procyon]

I understand what DJ MXF feels. He was there, in the very place and beginning. Naturally he is a purist.

But, goa and psy are so entwined that if you try to separate them, then you will have to create a lot

of other subgenres, what to do with the in-between acts like D-5, AP, Chi-ad?. Nice idea, but it's unpractical.

 

IMO, DJ MXF is that you start labelling acts like Green Nuns as, say, "pure Goa". Than we can start

separating what you lived back in Goa, the Goa made in Europe, and psychedelic trance.

 

My crazy idea

[djmaxfactor1995]

I remember the conversations like yesterday ('95-'96ish) I had with my friends as we tripped on phrygian caps discussing the music we listened to, and the problem we had describing it to people we were introducing it to as. Describing it as drug/high music didn't seem to work well.

We thought the term goa-trance a misnomer, as none had been the psytrance, and in fact nearly everyone we know hadn't been there either, and neither we any of likely to go anytime soon as we weren't part of the public school trustafarians crew.

We liked the term trance, as it described the activity which we engaged, with body and/or mind. However rather than goa, as we also thought the idea of going elsewhere and partying a bit ungroovey, rather than making were one was groovey, the term psychedelic seemed a much better fit. As at the time and location in the far north of england, it was a scene catergorised by psychedelic usage, driven around the local magic mushrooms, and creative industry that had lingered underground in the region since the 60's. Such as the FullMoon Magic Mushroom Parties in the 70-80's.

So rather than goa-trance, we started to call it psychedelic trance, it described what we did quite nicely, and shortly it became abbreviated down to psytrance. It came to us as no surprise, a matter of the synchronicity of the times, that the term psytrance became wide spread and popular in the wider community.

Anyway that is just my story and perspective on things, and why I(we) used to call it psy(chedelic) trance back-in-the-day™.

 

It seems as though you had the exact experience as I did half-way around the world. I never heard of Goa, I had no idea why it was associated until I researched. But, it was still ambiguous. The only thing I could think is that there was a short-time, maybe 6 months, where people just like you and I, we couldn't quite explain the music. Goa did not help.

[djmaxfactor1995]

I understand what DJ MXF feels. He was there, in the very place and beginning. Naturally he is a purist.

But, goa and psy are so entwined that if you try to separate them, then you will have to create a lot

of other subgenres, what to do with the in-between acts like D-5, AP, Chi-ad?. Nice idea, but it's unpractical.

 

IMO, DJ MXF is that you start labelling acts like Green Nuns as, say, "pure Goa". Than we can start

separating what you lived back in Goa, the Goa made in Europe, and psychedelic trance.

 

My crazy idea

 

 

Thank you. that's a great idea. please continue.

[Veracohr]

The terms people use for musical genres, artistic movements, historical eras, etc. evolve naturally through common usage. Sometimes terms fall out of fashion and get changed to others, sometimes they don't. It's rather pointless to try to change these things intentionally. If you personally don't want to associate this music with Goa, just stop using the word. Lead by action, not persuasion.

[djmaxfactor1995]

Really? I had no idea. You should mention this in more of your posts.

 

 

 

Although the terminology is not universally agreed upon, here on Psynews people generally use the term "Goa trance" and "psytrance" to mean different things - specifically, "Goa trance" refers to the subgenre of psytrance which distinguishes acts like Pleiadians and Filteria from those belonging to the other subgenres. As to whether this kind of music deserves to be associated with Goa, maybe it doesn't. But the fact is that it's useful to be able to refer to stuff that sounds more like Pleiadians than 1200 Mics or Parasense or Ace Ventura or Texas Faggott using a term that's shorter than "stuff that sounds more like Pleiadians than 1200 Mics or Parasense or Ace Ventura or Texas Faggott", and if you use the term "Goa trance" for that purpose then everyone on Psynews will know what you mean.

 

 

 

Really? I had no [etc.]

 

 

The Mods agree that it is a sub-genre of psytrance. That Goa Trance came after Psytrance. That Goa Trance distinguishes Pleiadians from Ace Ventura?

The only reason that I mention that I was a DJ in this and other posts is for credibility. I am sorry Rotwang if it bothers you. I will try, as with caps, not to do it anymore.

If this is so clear-cut, why aren't there a barrage of replies stating the exact same thing, that is so obvious. Yet, I only see the Mods agreeing.

[Rotwang]

The Mods agree that it is a sub-genre of psytrance. That Goa Trance came after Psytrance.

No, I don't see that any of the mods said that Goa Trance came after psytrance.

 

That Goa Trance distinguishes Pleiadians from Ace Ventura?

The only reason that I mention that I was a DJ in this and other posts is for credibility.

Nothing wrong with that, it's just that you seem to mention it an awful lot. Anyway, here, like most places on the internet, the sort of credibility you're talking about counts for very little.

 

I am sorry Rotwang if it bothers you. I will try, as with caps, not to do it anymore.

It doesn't bother me, I just found it funny that you did it twice in one post and decided to make a cheap joke about it. I'm sorry if you took it seriously.

 

If this is so clear-cut, why aren't there a barrage of replies stating the exact same thing, that is so obvious. Yet, I only see the Mods agreeing.

 

Apparently the usage among psynews members is less unanimous than I thought (though I did explicitly say that the terminology is not universally agreed upon). Note that neither Sideffect... nor travbrad1001 are mods, though.

[djmaxfactor1995]

You are asking to erase the past?

 

What was called Goatrance back in 1998, is still Goatrance.

 

The difference is so simple. You post you were there as a dj!

 

Then you had to notice the change of pattern from Goatrance to Psychedelic trance.

 

It was so obvious. People complained, others loved it, some even left!

 

It is impossible to deny imo.

 

EDIT

 

Is this yours?

 

http-~~-//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nf5kdWEBP5k

 

 

Okay, I believe that Psytrance was mislabeled as Goa Trance, because the music was so fresh and amazing that it was indescribable. While many of us tried to find words that described the music, it was dubbed Goa Trance in order to get the music out. You know how important the labeling of EDM has been. And, the majority of EDM participants spent many hours discussing what elements and what sounds contributed to support their point of view. Especially DJ's. Does that not happen today?

 

Goa Trance was never a good way to classify Psytrance. What I experienced was the label of Psytrance emerging as the obvious title for this Genre. I don't see that the music was ever Goa Trance and that the pattern of music started to change and become Psytrance.

 

Yes, that is me. And, no I don't see what you claim to be obvious. I am not trying to erase the past. That is like a Judge telling the jury to strike that from the record. I just seek an accurate past. As you can read from this forum, already, there is differences of opinion about the past.

 

So your point of view is that Psytrance was the evolution of Goa Trance. Well if we are the evolution of Cro-magnons, why don't we use that classification?

[djmaxfactor1995]

My friend and I knew from studying hard and progressive trance that was coming out of Germany that psytrance was definitely structured from it. I don't even have to speculate. KoxBox released "Forever After" on Harthouse in 1995. Harthouse or Hard House specialized in Hard Trance, but still danceable. It seemed to me that two sub-genres of hard trance evolved and split: Psychedelic and Cyber Trance. And that was the only two choices of music to choose from at the record store, I bought all of my psytrance vinyl. Sometimes, I made the mistake of buying a cyber-trance album. Anyway, I still find Goa and Psy as precursors to trance and I see them interchanged to describe the same thing. One thing will say that T.IP. was Goa another will say that T.I.P was Psytrance, I have seen many Dragon Fly releases called Goa Trance. Yet, the owner of the record label makes it clear that it is one of the first psytrance labels. I don't see any mention of Goa from Raja Ram or Simon Posford. Except that Hallucinogen's Lone Deranger referred to as Psychedelic Techno. I have seen it written that Psytrance is a sub-genre of Goa Trance. And, I read today that, Goa Trance is a sub-genre of Psytrance. That is what Psynews.org has emphatically agreed. So, If the major artists and record labels don't refer to it as Goa Trance, why do we? Even if I were to grasp at straws, I could barely associate this music as a result of Goa. So, this is why I need your help to convince me that Goa Trance is necessary. Is this subject completely mundane and not worth our focus? I think it is very relevant and pertinent. I have no problem changing my mind when I am convinced that I have erred. So, please prove me wrong. Or, if you feel as I do. Let's discuss it openly, and come to a conclusion. I am not asking to erase the past, I am asking to update the present. We, humans tend to hold on to traditions and language and culture that we have nothing to do with and is no longer relevant. I believe that we are obligated as humans to communicate our ideas effectively. As we do so globally, it is important to find common ground to facilitate the exchange of ideas and potentiate our communication by discarding poor and unnecessary vernacular.

[Rotwang]

So your point of view is that Psytrance was the evolution of Goa Trance. Well if we are the evolution of Cro-magnons, why don't we use that classification?

 

According to this,

 

Recent research over the past 20 years or so, however, has led scholars to believe that the physical dimensions of so-called 'Cro-Magnon' are not sufficiently different enough from modern humans to warrant a separate designation.

The reason we use the term "Goa trance" to differentiate between the psychedelic trance that people were making in 1997 and the various forms of psychedelic trance (other than new-school Goa) is that most psynewsers feel that the music is sufficiently different to warrant a separate designation.

[needle ninja]

Well I generally agree with the OP.

Electronic music has too many genres. The genre and the convention on creating genres is killing creativity IMHO.

If I told my mom that I listened to GOA I would get a blank stare. The name means nothing to her, or millions of other Americans, only a select group on this and a few other forums.

It is great that different acts sound different, but do we really need to create a new genre every time someone makes a new kind of music?

In other forms of music it is not uncommon to just say "they sound like the Rolling Stones" or he sounds like ... musicians will always show their influences.

Well I probably wouldn't be able to convince anyone so I'll just stop here.

[Rotwang]

Well I generally agree with the OP.

Electronic music has too many genres. The genre and the convention on creating genres is killing creativity IMHO.

If I told my mom that I listened to GOA I would get a blank stare. The name means nothing to her, or millions of other Americans, only a select group on this and a few other forums.

How is this a problem? Would you rather tell people that you listen to dance music and have them assume you like Tiësto and Deadmau5, or tell them you listen to Goa and have them correctly conclude that they don't know any of the music you listen to?

 

It is great that different acts sound different, but do we really need to create a new genre every time someone makes a new kind of music?

In other forms of music it is not uncommon to just say "they sound like the Rolling Stones" or he sounds like ... musicians will always show their influences.

 

That's a nice idea, but I think in practice modern EDM genres evolve too quickly for that to stay accurate. E.g. do darkpsy acts sound like Parasense? They did five years ago, now they don't. It's much easier to say that I like darkpsy than to say that I like music that sounds like Parasense or Highcosmos or Derango or Psykovsky or...

[djmaxfactor1995]

riiighhhhttt

 

so you think

 

This (Psy)

 

and

 

This (Goa)

 

should be classed as the same thing? You do realise that Goa Trance was around 17 years ago as well? What would you class Dimension 5 as then? They're certainly not psy trance!

 

Yes. I would have pulled out each vinyl and listened to about five seconds and put them back. They are both easily not something I would buy. And, they are both unoriginal Psytrance Tracks. The psy you refer is just another failed attempt at doing what Hallucinogen already mastered years ago. Just because it has a higher quality production, does not make it quality. And the Goa is just a rip-off of Etnica. I do realize the term Goa Trance was around 17 years ago. There was also pharmaceutical-grade MDMA. That doesn't exist anymore. But people still claim that it is pure, today. Just like this imaginary Goa Trance. Let me be clear I don't use Goa to classify Psytrance. That is the entire purpose of this forum. I want to get rid of the Goa stigma that still plagues psytrance lovers.

[djmaxfactor1995]

The terms people use for musical genres, artistic movements, historical eras, etc. evolve naturally through common usage. Sometimes terms fall out of fashion and get changed to others, sometimes they don't. It's rather pointless to try to change these things intentionally. If you personally don't want to associate this music with Goa, just stop using the word. Lead by action, not persuasion.

 

Yes, your observation is very astute. But, I don't agree that it is pointless. If I thought that my intentions were futile or that I was trying to change your religious views. I would surrender. I would probably stop listening to music that has altered my perception, infinitely. Psychedelic Trance has opened the doors in my mind that have shown me a new way of thinking, a new way of creating reality. Music is the only thing I know that allows all human beings to come together no matter how different we think we are. We all have this music in common. This music removes all the brainwashing, advertising, and conditioning that dominates or behavior. All the crap that keeps us separate is shattered by one thing we have in common. That is the effect of this music on our lives. I admit, I am a purist. But, I have seen the life cycles of different "scenes" They all are similar. Everything is wonderful in the beginning, people are genuinely caring, and considerate of everyone, no one needs to worry because the entire party wants everyone to be able to have the best time, possible. So, no impure or toxic substances are allowed. No one is victimized or humiliated. If you pass out, and wake up without your ride...someone will bring you home. Everyone is safe to be themselves. Nothing weird.

Then, subtle changes happen. The clothes people wear change. You see the same people trying to be someone else. They have lost what makes them unique. This turns into insecure thoughts...leads to indifference, leads to impure drugs, charging more, bag checks, bad people, cops, fear, lying, cheating, commercialism, and what was sacred is now on commercials or is vilified. The music sucks, the locations suck, the people are greedy, the scene is dead.

With the psytrance scene, it was not this way. It was initially mindblowing and you felt that it would cure the toxic scene. It doesn't. It creates a new party with different rooms for different genres. The main room is typically House, then Drum n Bass is in a smaller room. Then amateur DJ's in another room. Then, of course the chill-out room. Which wasn't like it is now. Then you have the Psytrance/Techno/Cyber-trance, Acid House, Jungle, and other not so popular genres lumped into the same room. Subsequently, different parties to feature these types of music, separately would emerge. Now, the big influence on where the scene goes is? You got it, the money. Who has the money and what do they want? Well, for Psytrance, a hybrid elitist crowd that wore spandex bell bottoms with fluorescent paint or drawings. They wore tunic looking shirts or Mexican ponchos and they put up tapestries of Shiva and the Ohm and Shriyantras. These of course being Hindu images and the people were dressed like hippies with long hair and poor hygiene. Black lights chased the darkness to illuminate the dandruff on the dark shirts of these paradoxes. See, they preached, love, peace, unity. But, they didn't like other people. Do you see where this can lead? My friend and I, immediately recognized that this association of this music would only lead to its destruction. Because one has to be free to listen to this music and experience their own revelation about it. But, one cannot do that when they don't feel comfortable. These neo nonconformist (conformist) hippies made it uncomfortable. It was weird, if you didn't dress and act like them you would be marginalized and then they had these horrible drum circles of the whitest off beat drummers to commence the party. So, if you heard crazy people banging bongos with no harmony, rhythm or unity. The result was always the same. Faster and harder and crazier drumming. Like psychotic behavior. Finally the DAT DJ emerged. With tracks having long ambient beginnings and endings. Yet, they still crashed the tracks into each other. It was horrifying. But, many people believed that was the way. Of course this was so unnatural, the level of denial was outrageous. With Psytrance when the ambient part plays, it is still in time. Just because drums aren't crashing doesn't mean your not wrecking. Ambient mixing even more challenging because you have to match the melodies and sound effects and airy harmonies. You don't have a steady beat to help guide your mixing. Anyway, we ran off to promote ourselves with mainstream rave producers and promoters. So we got some gigs at huge parties and even at popular clubs. We remained aware of the hippie producers, yet we did our best to avoid contact. That is not very possible because you would see them at the record store or you would get a crossover crowd of clueless ravers that would wear and do whatever they were told. Many of these people became DJ's but with vinyl and they still train wrecked just as Goa Gil had lead them to believe was acceptable. Now, we became more aware of this "Goa" tag. And everything about those hippies made sense. They were followers of the Goa Gil Cult. Goa Gil and his followers were a strong force in the way Psytrance was displayed. Ahh haa! this was the Goa Trance we all had heard. Wait...this is psytrance. These are the same artists, the same tracks, but different audience, different DJ, different symbolism.

This I believe led to a waive of collective unconsious programming that people drew the term Goa Trance. It infected the Psytrance scene with its paradoxes of nonconformist-conformists and harmonious unity with the music that was trainwrecked and not mixed. This is specifically what you refer. I have been leading by not calling it and not associating with Goa. But, I can not defeat such a false prophet and phony shaman, Goa Gil. He has that cult leader charisma that people mindlessly follow. They will fight for their leader. I still believe that this music is sacred and must not be labeled Goa. Because Goa has only been a bad influence on the progress of this music. It has only created psycological damage and set back to the advancement of Psytrance.

Maybe you don't think that this psychological type of conditioning can have such a dramatic effect. Maybe you think I am crazy. I question my sanity all the time. But, I am not insane, maybe "unsane."

 

All the philosophical and psychological debating in the world can not change a the behavior of someone that is mentally ill. Say you are on the Titanic and you are a raft maker. You knew that the Titanic was going to sink. There are three types of people on the titanic. There is the type that believes that is nonsense. The Titanic is unsinkable. The second reacts with panic but then asks what do we do? What can I do to survive? The third group resigns to the action. They are like oh well I am gonna die anyway, what's the difference when or how it happens.

 

Now, What group of people would you focus your attention to sell your life rafts? I hope you answered the second type. The only people I am concerned with are the people that recognize what I am stating to be not only real, but they want to know how to change. And that means their must be people that can help me to help those people. If you are one, I happily invite to participate in this global advancement of the human mind. If you don't think it is possible, look up "flow" on Wikipedia.

[Elysium]

According to this,

 

 

 

The reason we use the term "Goa trance" to differentiate between the psychedelic trance that people were making in 1997 and the various forms of psychedelic trance (other than new-school Goa) is that most psynewsers feel that the music is sufficiently different to warrant a separate designation.

 

You have to be careful with not dictating how the whole world and worldwide scene named the music. Maybe it was like this in USA with it at that time extremely small scene (even compared today) but certainly not here in Denmark and surrounding countries. We actually called the music this (I was there and clearly remember the shifts).

 

1. Techno (1990)

2. Trance/Psychedelic trance (1992)

3. Goatrance (1995)

5.Psychedelic Trance (or psytrance)

etc....

 

So actually Goa came after psytrance here. In Denmark it happened around early 1995 when there was a party on a boat in the Harbour of Copenhagen where the early UK Goatrance pioneers (MWNN, Dino etc.) came to play material from this first groundbreaking Goatrance release (released in 1994):

 

[Tom!]

I want to get rid of the Goa stigma that still plagues psytrance lovers.

 

Never gonna happen. Psy trance has evolved into the kind of stuff that I posted up. Goa has evolved to into a more melodic faster paced type of music. You will never succeed so you may as well give up.

 

The psy you refer is just another failed attempt at doing what Hallucinogen already mastered years ago. Just because it has a higher quality production, does not make it quality.

 

I'd hardly say E-Clip has failed at anything he's done so far. His 'Shuma' album has received rave reviews all round. John 00 Fleming loves him so much he's signed him to Joof to bring out his 2nd album. He's got a massive following.

[Sideffect...]

I understand what DJ MXF feels. He was there, in the very place and beginning. Naturally he is a purist.

 

This topic has become very long and interesting I'll edit,

But with the quote above I totally disagree,

Why should he be a purist?

I'm 100% sure many others were there too and are not, maybe think totally otherwise

It's that kind of stereotyping that often give people the illusion their vision is a general truth!

 

With all do respect Procyon

 

And as far as I know,

 

Goa started as ambient, sounds they used in psychedelic rock, that were combined in a pattern.

Later they tried a trance baseline and Goatrance was born!

 

Correct me If I'm wrong!

 

EDIT:

 

I have to agree with Elysium that we cannot ignore the fact that 'names and categories' are often different / country.

[djmaxfactor1995]

You have to be careful with not dictating how the whole world and worldwide scene named the music. Maybe it was like this in USA with it at that time extremely small scene (even compared today) but certainly not here in Denmark and surrounding countries. We actually called the music this (I was there and clearly remember the shifts).

 

 

1. Techno (1990)

2. Trance/Psychedelic trance (1992)

3. Goatrance (1995)

5.Psychedelic Trance (or psytrance)

etc....

 

So actually Goa came after psytrance here. In Denmark it happened around early 1995 when there was a party on a boat in the Harbour of Copenhagen where the early UK Goatrance pioneers (MWNN, Dino etc.) came to play material from this first groundbreaking Goatrance release (released in 1994):

 

 

Thank You. You have a totally valid point. That is the kind of stuff I want to see. But, you are not validating the reason why we need Goa Trance. From your timeline Goa Trance only popped up for what a year? Why, to pay homage to to a UK artist that for some reason called it Goa Trance. And, if you did not show the re-emergence of the psytrance label after Goa Trance, I would ask you if we should call it Goa Trance, instead. But, you show Trance/Psychedelic trance before and after Goa Trance. So, does that mean that Goa Trance is a different sound than Psytrance? And it is needed?

Can you explain why the early Goa trance pioneers are from the UK? Why were they Goa Trance pioneers and not psytrance pioneers? Also, KoxBox released a psytrance album in 1995 on Harthouse records. So that means that KoxBox released a Goa Trance album or Psytrance is a definite separate EDM classification. That classification, I don't see the difference. Because, I have been told that a record is Goa Trance and that it is Psytrance. So, if they are different Genres, How are they so easily and wrongfully misused? This is why this is a great forum. There is much confusion over this topic. Wouldn't you agree? I am not a total putz, but I am not the smartest person, either. And, probably most people fall in that category. Please elaborate on your valuable contribution. Thank You very much. I just listened to a track from the trance festival with Dino

 

If this is Goa Trance. Then, I see the distinction. If it is not, please show me link me to a definitive Goa Trance track. That is nobody says otherwise than I will find the difference and be satisfied and help people when they mislabel the two genres.

http-~~-//www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBYQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DkjUZLFf-nx0&rct=j&q=Dino%20goa&ei=jhLNTfb7DYiosQP-36mwCw&usg=AFQjCNHdzRVoYPlFncSjfg1IRDv-BzuQ3Q&sig2=WOlTz8YlIln3XTo4cS-oDg&cad=rja

 

P.S,

"MAN WITH NO NAME

 

one of the original exponents of psychedelic trance returned to Glastonbury in 2003 after a three year absence

 

his new album 'INTERSTATE HIGHWAY', just released on DRAGONFLY RECORDS

 

Glastonbury 2003 represented a preview of the forthcoming tour of the album in the Autumn"

 

from http://www.manwithnoname.co.uk/

[djmaxfactor1995]

 

This topic has become very long and interesting I'll edit,

But with the quote above I totally disagree,

Why should he be a purist?

I'm 100% sure many others were there too and are not, maybe think totally otherwise

It's that kind of stereotyping that often give people the illusion their vision is a general truth!

 

With all do respect Procyon

 

And as far as I know,

 

Goa started as ambient, sounds they used in psychedelic rock, that were combined in a pattern.

Later they tried a trance baseline and Goatrance was born!

 

Correct me If I'm wrong!

 

EDIT:

 

I have to agree with Elysium that we cannot ignore the fact that 'names and categories' are often different / country.

 

I don't interpret that I am a purist because I was there. I think we all are purists and seek valid information based on fact and not on emotion. I certainly am not better or less than anyone, and I would never want someone to think that way because that means they think of themselves as better or less than others. And that is not true. We are all humans. We all live on Earth. We all are equally invaluable.

If you look back on my some of my posts, you will see that I don't ignore other countries and that they label things differently. I know that they do. But, if you read the gentleman's post from the UK, he stated that he experienced it in the same way as I did in S.F.. Regardless, because this music did not originate in the U.S., I especially need the input of the other countries. Is anyone here from Goa? If so, please give some input. But, I still have yet to read something that explains the reason why people can't separate the two. Or, a valid reason that Goa should still remain. Because the issue that I see all the time is that Goa Trance and Psytrance are used synonymously. Yet, I don't know why.