recursion loop

Thanks everyone, I'm very happy to see that kind of discussion actually! Yeah, making a "generic goa" was a part of the task I've set to myself, I'm a (semi)amateur full-on producer, but I was somehow drawn into goa (thanks psynews) and decided to try if I can make smth in that vein myself. So, if people perceive this as goa and even like the melodies, it wasn't a completely useless try If/when I'll be making a full track of it, I'll surely try to give it my own twists. Meanwhile, I want to ask for some listening suggestions. I don't like the kind of goa with chaotic melodies, overly agressive acid lines and ultraloud kicks which seems to be popular now, but i like Mindsphere - Presence, latest Ra (wasn't exactly mad about it at first but it really grew on me), everything by Khetzal and Skarma I've heard, J.I.S. and truly and deeply love most tracks made by AP. So pelase more music of this kind ( I guess I should look for 90's goa rather than newschool?)

A review soon?

Yeah, for someone who started making music with computer the things like total recall, unlimitied instances, no cables is super important. Interesting, for the people who started with hardware years back it's the other way round, they often say that the sound is good but they can't get past the software workflow. Diva is great, I don't really feel the need to get anything analogue as I have it. There were more accurate analogue emulations released after it, like the new Synapse Audio Minimoog clone, but I don't even care - Diva is good enough. But there are still no convining emulations of Virus or Waldorf synths (there is Largo but people often say that even Blofeld sounds very different, let alone the older synths like MicroQ). Also I'm not sure how well Discovery does Nord, never owned one but I've heard a number of Nord demos online which I'm not sure Discovery could recreate. I've noted that when I was using only softsynths, my output sounded more or less similar to modern prog/full-on sound, maybe not as good mixed and mastered but with similar clarity and presence in sounds, when I switched to Virus, my tracks started to sound like mid 00's psy, not as clear and bright but subjectively more "alive".

Thanks for your advices, Padmapani! Generally I prefer softer and more trancey oldschool sound, I'm not a really a fan of fat pumping kicks in modern goa.

The tags are my strongest point so far

Tnx, mate!

Quite an impressive gear list!

... or both equally? Just curious what do you prefer and why. I'm waiting for an input from both professional producers and hobbyists

I was listening to various modern goa today and I've noted that many newschool producers use sounds which are harsh and abrasive by nature, like extreme resonances, high pitched notes, unfiltered white noise etc. These kinds of things sound ugly and ear-piercing even on a good hardware synth. E.g., Nordlead (the red thingie in that Filteria video) is often praised for its silky-smooth and clean sound, but this guy makes it scream like crazy. Btw, I dislike Filteria just for his abuse of these ugly screaming sounds. So is it the part of the aesthetics? Perhaps it somehow works on a big system at a gig? Listening to it in headphones may cause ear bleeding, tbh.

Thanks, HappyHorse, very interesting. I'm also curious what modern goa producers are using, like Mindsphere, JIS, Psy-H Project, E-Mantra, Ra, Antares etc, those who make really professional sounding music. Now there are plugins which do very convincing representation of old analogue hardware sound, like Diva, Monark, Tal Bassline-101 and others, are goa people using them? On the other hand, some of the classic digital hardware, like Virus and Nordlead, still weren't properly emulated in software, are these machines still in use?

Very nice track, interesting work with pads and background atmospheres. I think your track captures the very essence of prog-psy, it doesn't try to overwhelm the listener with melodies and sounds but acts more subtly, almost subsonsciously As it was with soime other your tracks, I wasn't especially excited about it at first but really liked it on the second listen

Yeah, I'm also thinking about more strong bassline. Will try some percussions too, maybe. Everything except the drums is Diva, the swooshes and FXes are Diva too. iirc I used factory presets for bass and some other things and made the lead sounds myself. Diva is great sounding synth, the oscillators and filters are high quality analogue modelled, but it is restricted to oldschool subtractive sounds. It's use in modern psy is kinda limited but for classic goa I think it is spot on.

I've made this short "track" when testing a software synth, U-He Diva Now I think to make a full track of it, but since I have zero experience in making pure goa (all my completed tracks are in more in full-on and prog area) I would love to hear someone's suggestions on what could be changed/improved (the sounds, the melodies etc)

Listening to it from YT right now. Indeed, it seems that source material was poorly mixed, there is not much a ME can do in this situation. I've run into this myself when I've sent a wrong file to the ME for one of my EPs, and the final result sounded pretty poor, other tracks mastered by the same guy were ok.

I remember i tried to listen to it from youtube and had to stop after two tracks because it was really barely tolerable. Ofc, youtube additionally compresses the source and adds its own artifacts, but if the sourse file sounds good there shouldn't be really drastic issues.

The abuse of upper-midrange (2-5 kHz) emphasis may also cause troubles. Boost in this area may really bring the music up in your face, but it easily becomes extremely tiresome for long listen. It's really easy to overdo it because at first few minutes it seems to bring some magic to the sound. It's like your GF suddenly does agressive makeup one day and you think "wow she looks sooo very hot this way" but when she starts wearing this 7 days a week you are like "omg, why she always looks like a wh0re"

You are not alone As for recent goa albums, people seem to agree than RA - Earthcall is mastered better than the average. On top of my head I can name JIS - Illusions of Reality, at least I don't remember that mastering was an issue when I was listening to it. But I'd also like to hear more suggestions for modern goa albums not ruined by agressive mastering.

Two examples which show that there may be at least two completely different kinds of "cold": "cold" as an artistic choise and "cold" as a result of overcompression and wrecked frequency balance I think the first one coveys the feeling of Space - Technology – Science – Hard – Robotics – Synthetic – Artificial pretty well. The second one conveys the feeling "well, 95% people will be listening to it on their iphones, let's drop an Ozone preset over here and make it LOUD"

For the record, Psylocibian tracks are 100% software, afaik. I've watched his tutorials where he shows how he makes all his sounds with Sylenth, Massive, Omnisphere and processes them wiith Ableton stock effects (which are known to be of very poor quality) and some Waves plugins. Also he programms and mixes all his stuff in Ableton, maybe he uses some MIDI controller to write automations, idk On the other hand, his tracks are mastered relatively quiet and this may contribute to the "warmth" you feel in his tracks. There is often a tradeoff between loudness and the feeling of warmth and 3-dimensionality in music, and generally the current loudness standards are such that it is technically very hard to preserve the factors (dynamic range, frequency balance etc) which are responsible for "warmth"

I'd suggest you to check out the track I've posted above in this thread. It is not on the album but the album is more or less in the same vein.

I remember the title track maybe from 7 or 8 years ago, I found it on some pirate CD and thought "wow, psytrance may be actually listenable and even pretty darn awesome". I've just found it again on youtube and while it is nowehere near as good as I remember it to be, it still gives me some great memories. Holy cow, how fcn old I am

Because of this your post I've learned about this compilation which is pretty sick.

Great stuff you have here! This release made me check your previous output on Discogs, I'm now at Psychofluid vol. 3 and I definitely like what I'm hearing.

Well, it is prog. And pretty typical kind of it, but it is extremely well made. I'm talking not only about the production (afaik, the Ticon guys use some quality hardware so it is out of the question), but the overall feel of the music. Prog done right. I think it is waay better than Ace Ventura or Vidi Vici

The psybass is such a specific thing that it must be just done right, you can (and should ) get creative with other elements of your tracks. Compare, e.g., Tristan to U-Recken, they sound nothing similar but use the same or almost the same bassline. But, yes, most novices and amateurs are trying to copy someone. I know this awesome feeling when you hear a sound in someone's track and think "holy cow, how on earth did they make it', and then after a bunch of long sessions this sound is here in your DAW. In theory this should be a basis for inventing your own sounds, but in practice not many people are reaching this stage. When you have 2-3 hours per week to make music (I believe this is true for most people making psytrance or other electronic music these days) you just stick to tried and tested approaches in order to get things done.