NEMO.BOFH Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 Honestly, I think this could be a bad idea unless you: 1. Make it *not* anonymous 2. Require comments/justification for any sort of negative feedback The reason I say this is because there are a lot of reasons why a particular DJ/artist might dislike an organizer that would not be a true reflection on anything actually having to do with their value/honesty as an organizer. I've had DJs get bitchy with me when I've asked them to provide a demo CD. Not world-famous superstah DJs, mind you, but "Johnny no-names" who contacted me through or website, who I've never heard of before, and who I would like to get an idea of what they sound like before I even consider booking them. I've had local DJs talk shit behind my back because they didn't think I was booking them enough. The same thing happened to a friend of mine who also organized parties, except that one particular DJ took it a step further and enlisted all of his friends and even his damn wife to constantly harass my friend (and his wife also) too book him. I've had unbooked DJs who have tried to force their way into the lineup (also often using their friends to exert added pressure) that we've had to deal with in less than polite ways (nothing violent). I've had video/projection artists show up at the entrance with their projector and several friends, with no previous contact, expecting not only to be let in for free, but for us to let them set up their gear simply because they are friends of one of the DJs. OK, this only happened once, but the guy was rather pissed when I wouldn't let him in. There have been times where we have had to make last-minute changes to the lineup due to DJs not showing up as a result of sickness, arrest, car accidents or general flakiness, and a DJ in the lineup was unhappy with the unavoidable change. I've had DJs who for whatever reason had to miss a gig and instead of notifying me of their absence (even if they know long in advance), send a friend of theirs to take their place without warning to me. I've seen live acts or DJs who play both uptempo and chill, were booked on the chill stage for a particular party under the original agreement to play a chill set, then decide at the last minute to play uptempo (against the very clear original agreement) to show the organizer that they should have been booked on the main stage anyways. The list goes on....all of these things are incidents that have happened either to myself or one good friend of mine (who organized parties in a nearby city) over the course of 8-10 years of organizing events. I keep it to my group and this guy's group since we always made it a point to be 100% professional with anybody we booked, whether they were world-famous DJ Superstah or our buddy driving up from another city a couple hours away. We always made financial/travel/technical arrangments with any DJ at the time of booking and stuck with it 100%. We booked diverse, creative lineups and made it a point to change up the DJs from party to party. These weren't even mega-events - mostly small 50-400 person events (in only one case 1000+). I'm sure that anybody who organizes larger events on any sort of regular basis has to deal with this sort of shit much more than we ever did. But still, in the course of it all, you deal with DJs or artists with their heads so far up their asses and their egoes so far in the sky that they will find some fault with you even for no reason whatsoever. Would these people go onto some sort of forum and anonymously write unwarranted shit about a organizer who really did nothing wrong except not play to their ego? Quite probably so. The point of it..... Don't make it anonymous - make them give their DJ/artist name. If people have a legitimate complaint, then they don't have to hide behind the veil of anonymity. 560697[/snapback] I think anonymous posts would suck, therefor I also do not prefer it. And every single critizism should be public domain. Also, if questioned it should be investigated for credibility. If you CANT post anonymously, you have less chance of bullshit. If you CAN, you will have more people daring.... its a lose/win/win/lose situation really.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 dont forget to give them "last word" - opportunity to say something they want, if they have anything to say to djs/producers/party people, that might be interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 dont forget to give them "last word" - opportunity to say something they want, if they have anything to say to djs/producers/party people, that might be interesting 560770[/snapback] Everybody can raise their voice as much as they want. Thats the point of this debate. Organizers, labels and artists have been asked to participate and it's been said very clear that they have all the right to tell their side of the "story" and give their input + suggestons or critique. I doubt it can be done more fair or un-biased. The forum I have created does not accept anonymous posting and will also track IP's. And no guests can post. @krelmatrix. 2 more critic questions have been added to the artist questions. Feel free to give me suggestions to other questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krelmatrix Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 @krelmatrix. 2 more critic questions have been added to the artist questions. Feel free to give me suggestions to other questions. 560779[/snapback] I'll think of some....probably coming from both sides of the spectrum (since I've both dealt with bitchy DJs as an organizer and dodgy organizers as a DJ ), more having to do with the smaller events. Try to give me a day or two if possible. I just got back from week spent mostly out of town and I have to go home and start preparing food for about 10-12 people for a pre-semifinal feast tomorrow afternoon. Although I do have to sit and "babysit" a bunch of students in a lab class for 4 hours tomorrow afternoon, so I'm always looking for ways to kill time during that time. It'll be fun to sit and think of probing questions that I'd ask to anybody who has pissed me off over the years in this scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 I'll think of some....probably coming from both sides of the spectrum (since I've both dealt with bitchy DJs as an organizer and dodgy organizers as a DJ ), more having to do with the smaller events. Try to give me a day or two if possible. I just got back from week spent mostly out of town and I have to go home and start preparing food for about 10-12 people for a pre-semifinal feast tomorrow afternoon. Although I do have to sit and "babysit" a bunch of students in a lab class for 4 hours tomorrow afternoon, so I'm always looking for ways to kill time during that time. It'll be fun to sit and think of probing questions that I'd ask to anybody who has pissed me off over the years in this scene. 560787[/snapback] hehe have fun and no rush mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 The e-mails has been send out to a huge number of Organizers, Labels and artists. And the work is in progress to add links on as many forums a possible. Please join the debate. Open Letters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furthur Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 It would be pretty aggressive/offending to send this to someone that works hard to organise fair parties where everyone is getting paid... 560338[/snapback] it is not offending if one does what one knows one should do, no amount of reproach could make one feel guilty for not doing what one did do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Who is actually going to answer those organizer/label questions? Have you ever disrespected, talked down to or made rude comments to an artist looking for a gig? Do you book yourself before your artists and promote yourself as a DJ using your label name? I understand artists getting back to you but the rest? Hmm... good luck on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Who is actually going to answer those organizer/label questions? 561465[/snapback] Do I really need to answer that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ov3rdos3 Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Who is actually going to answer those organizer/label questions? 561465[/snapback] Possibly the organisers and the lables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffymushi Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frontier Psychiatrist Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 ^ A picture that worths a thousand words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowball Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 561500[/snapback] Oh man that was so cruel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Do I really need to answer that? 561467[/snapback] Maybe you mistake the point I am making... what self-interested party, either label or festival organizer, would actually give you the time of day on this little project? Surely a few will pipe up about how equitable they are, but the shady elements of the scene that are the target of your crusade have no need to participate. Unless you plan an interrogation, who is going to say "sure, we fuck the artists around"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Maybe you mistake the point I am making... what self-interested party, either label or festival organizer, would actually give you the time of day on this little project? Surely a few will pipe up about how equitable they are, but the shady elements of the scene that are the target of your crusade have no need to participate. Unless you plan an interrogation, who is going to say "sure, we fuck the artists around"? 561594[/snapback] Ok my mistake Yes I do think you are right but that just makes the whole thing much more interesting since I will give them some time to answer and when that "deadline" is reached I will publish who I contacted. Then people can see who answered and who did not It's going slowly but steady ahead. So far Dado from Dedrah/transwave, some small "illegal" organiser named Lars and Tranceform Records from Finland answered. I do not expect it to explode and I got no illusion about everybody will answer and the big huge debate will go on in a matter of a day or 2. It's a long hard move upstream to make people think and come out the bush or even care. But steady steady we might get some interesting stories and answers as people see more and more being honest and not afraid to answer. And just maybe people will start to debate it on local and international forums too.. Thats my "vision" There's 4 members in the forum now..Not much..But a beginning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 (edited) There's quite a few answers and comments coming in and some have been added to the website. It goes slowly but steady and I have had a lot of personal e-mails supporting me. I would wish that more would come forward instead and in public (in the websites forum) say what they say to me in private e-mails. But I of course i honour their wish to keep it private. If anyone got some requets or e-mails for fesivals, atists and labels they think should participate then please let me know. Funny enough not many labels or festivals have responded yet but they still got time http://www.elysium-project.net/openletters/openletters.htm PS! It is a open forum for everybody.. Not only artist, labels and organizers.. Everybody are welcome to comment on things and debate. Edited July 6, 2006 by Elysium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
postunder Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 looks cool im on the site now gonna fill out some of the forms good luck with all Faxi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 looks good kris, nice, im eager to read more ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 bug? Yuli, Perfect Stranger, Israel Manmademan A: I think with any scene there are unfair people, and the trance scene is unfortunately no exception. Having said that, we have been lucky because most of the time we have been treated very well, and always by a nice bunch of people. There has been the ocasional gig where it is obvious that the organizers really dont care at all about the artist and are only after money, but you'll find that in any scene the same text Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Posted July 6, 2006 Share Posted July 6, 2006 bug? Yuli, Perfect Stranger, Israel Manmademan the same text 563348[/snapback] Fixed. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETOX Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 By the way first question should be LESS KNOWN no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEMO.BOFH Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Check your mail Mr Elysium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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