visine Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 oh man ... last evening i was CD shopping. see, i have these 5 releases as mp3 and 1 as promo CD, and i decided to buy them also. i searched for the 5 albums, found them, clicked, calculated, and thought: "Damn .. this is expensive. They are my favourite CDs, but can i really afford them?" i bought 2 in the end. 435640[/snapback] OK so the price may be an issue for some people. How do you think the artists or labels can save money while putting together their releases and pass on the savings to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Yes, this is another mp3 debate....but a nice one.. There have been many of fights already... One argument is mp3 are bad because free sharing will not allow labels to survive since they lose money. Secondly, mp3's are good because they serve as a great promotional tools. Now, I have never seen a good solution that will work for everyone. Put yourself in the label's shoes..what would you do in order to survive and give your music exposure it deserves at the same time? Let's hear those ideas..You are the consumer let your voice be heard. What would make you buy instead of download for free? 435546[/snapback] as allready mentioned - losless downloads would help IMO Well I buy what I like.. but it sure would be nice if I didn't have to order 99% of my records online but could instead go to a music store and buy em off there 435550[/snapback] yes, that too, but lets face the truth - it will NEVER HAPPEN Re-printing costs may be to much for a small label but your idea still makes sense. How about labels making those rare and hard to find out of print albums available for download in .wav or some other full quality format? Would you buy them that way? 435596[/snapback] YES! Being able to buy single tracks in lossless (FLAC or WAV) format for a reasonable price ($1-1.50) would help, imo. People would still be able to d/l mp3s in vbr for free, but vbr don't sound as good as 320mp3 or FLAC or WAV, and I know a lot of DJs who would pay to have tracks in lossless quality. 435615[/snapback] yes again, lossless dloads is the key Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Let's hear it then..How can we help the artists? What sort of a business model do you think we need? What will work in your opinion? 435635[/snapback] in CD sales ... if artists or their managers would bring CDs for sale at their gigs/parties, it might help increase sales. the cost would be smaller cause there is no delivery fee. make your product available, touchable, thus easier to purchase. however, labels are pretty much involved in the "cost and income" side, so you cannot talk about artists and exclude labels, and vice-versa. downloading will never stop. even if people would have enough money to buy more CDs than they currently do, they'd still download the music, based on "listen before buying". however, we have concluded before, that downloading to some extent means "promotion". the music moves faster and easier from a listener to another. i wonder what's the production cost of a CD ... who can afford to lower price, who can't. can the artist by-pass the label in sales? hmm ... Like you wouldn't be jumping around in your hallucinogen kicks and astral glasses if they were available? 435637[/snapback] i saw The Lone Deranger on psyshop.com 11 Euro. Twisted Recs has been re-releasing and stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radi6404 Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Like you wouldn't be jumping around in your hallucinogen kicks and astral glasses if they were available? 435637[/snapback] hallucinogen kicks? what´s this, but yeah of course i would wear hallucinogen and astral projection shoes or something else if they would be out but it is too much stuff for rap fans out and that make me sick. If i want buy a cd i must order it from the web and in our small town often letters that are for my family get losed so i cut happen with the cd´s and that make me don´t buy anything from the web. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 in CD sales ... if artists or their managers would bring CDs for sale at their gigs/parties, it might help increase sales. the cost would be smaller cause there is no delivery fee. Good idea...but what about the people who don't live close to where particular artists perform? however, labels are pretty much involved in the "cost and income" side, so you cannot talk about artists and exclude labels, and vice-versa. downloading will never stop. even if people would have enough money to buy more CDs than they currently do, they'd still download the music, based on "listen before buying". Yeah, I understand and don't dispute that..we are trying to generate ideas on how can we help artists generate revenue for their hard work under assumption that free downloading is here to stay. Can we make that work somehow? however, we have concluded before, that downloading to some extend means "promotion". the music moves faster and easier from a listener to another. yes, I agree. i wonder what's the production cost of a CD ... who can afford to lower price, who can't. can the artist by-pass the label in sales? hmm ... I have no idea about the production costs, but I heard that a lot of money goes to distributors and stores since they mark it up quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 eh, the only goa trance that i got to listen without dloading is etnica-alien protein, i have it, got it for free and then some day i found out that i have ETNICA ALIEN PROTEIN !!!! others i dloaded, and now im starting slowly to create cd collection . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 I am a hoarder. I live my life in piles. NO! I buy very strictly now. A lot of records I'm selling, I don't even care to have on CD because I know what I like, precisely. Aaron 435625[/snapback] Cool...tell us what is it that you like? What makes you say "yes, this release will stay in my collection, I'm not getting rid of it"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Yeah, I understand and don't dispute that..we are trying to generate ideas on how can we help artists generate revenue for their hard work under assumption that free downloading is here to stay. Can we make that work somehow? 435659[/snapback] ban cd ripping software, create cd-rom's/dvd-rom's that only allow to play. there have been attempts to create non-PC cd's, that is cd's that cant be played on PC, yet they didnt work. new format cd's with integrated data sequrity, blu-ray and new dvds are on rise so industry instead of bitching and money ripping from data storage device buyers could work on that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Cool...tell us what is it that you like? What makes you say "yes, this release will stay in my collection, I'm not getting rid of it"? 435665[/snapback] hmm, lemme see TASTE? QUALITY? NO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 ban cd ripping software, create cd-rom's/dvd-rom's that only allow to play. there have been attempts to create non-PC cd's, that is cd's that cant be played on PC, yet they didnt work. new format cd's with integrated data sequrity, blu-ray and new dvds are on rise so industry instead of bitching and money ripping from data storage device buyers could work on that 435668[/snapback] I don't think banning anything would help. Piracy is here to stay....but can an artist or a label be more clever and deliver products that people will want to buy more instead of dowloading for free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Good idea...but what about the people who don't live close to where particular artists perform? 435659[/snapback] i was reffering in general ... i'm just saying that people (at least the ones with small incomes) preffer to have the product in front of them, physically, when they want to buy music. the availability of the CDs is not high. i for one can only buy music online. no other option. example ... i will soon travel by train like 10-12 hours to go to a party where Ticon will play. and maybe Jaia, i'm not sure (but that's another party). now, if there would be CDs for sale, i'd surely buy. i guess i don't live very close . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I don't think banning anything would help. Piracy is here to stay....but can an artist or a label be more clever and deliver products that people will want to buy more instead of dowloading for free? 435675[/snapback] no. the power of "for free". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted February 8, 2006 Author Share Posted February 8, 2006 i was reffering in general ... i'm just saying that people (at least the ones with small incomes) preffer to have the product in front of them, physically, when they want to buy music. the availability of the CDs is not high. i for one can only buy music online. no other option. example ... i will soon travel by train like 10-12 hours to go to a party where Ticon will play. and maybe Jaia, i'm not sure (but that's another party). now, if there would be CDs for sale, i'd surely buy. i guess i don't live very close . 435676[/snapback] I think that would work as a supplement channel for sales. I'd say this has been done here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moni Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 I don't think banning anything would help. Piracy is here to stay....but can an artist or a label be more clever and deliver products that people will want to buy more instead of dowloading for free? 435675[/snapback] well, then if you say that piracy is here to stay, then we might think that there is nothing to do about it... but there lot of things to be done that are mentioned here. im not economist so i dont know about other things when it comes to labels/distributors how to make sales even more effective. BUT - strict laws against pirats that work in real life would help ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niobium Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 Interesting ideas....Would making the CD's more personable help? Something like giving people an option to have them autographed if they want to...or 1 out of 20 CD's sold come with an autograph or something else... any other way to make them more personal? 435627[/snapback] Anything that distinguishes it from the masses. It needs to have some kind of a unique 'tag' or signature of some kind so that collectors can regard it as real 'property' With the current situation, an MP3 or .wav isn't truly perceived by a consumer as 'property'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted February 8, 2006 Share Posted February 8, 2006 (edited) Anything that distinguishes it from the masses. It needs to have some kind of a unique 'tag' or signature of some kind so that collectors can regard it as real 'property' With the current situation, an MP3 or .wav isn't truly perceived by a consumer as 'property'. 435706[/snapback] well in that case those consumers are NOT intelligent enough its about music afterall IMO np : Pleiadians - Blinded Moon edited Edited February 8, 2006 by reger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis 8D Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 The key is to add some value to buying the cd. If you can download the music for free and get pretty much the same thing as if you would buy the cd, then of course a lot of people won't buy the cd. Some people don't care that much about the artwork and the physical aspect of the cd. If you're not a collector, maybe this isn't enough to make you buy the cd. And for the sound quality, not everyone is an audiophile, lots of people are very pleased with the sound quality they get from mp3, and with the improvement in the technology, we can expect to see better mp3 quality available for free download in the futur. For myself, I exctract all of my cds on my computer in 192/kbs wma and when I listen to it on my computer speakers, I don't really ear any difference between the cd and the wma. So if I would'nt care about owning a physical copy of the cd and if downloading this kind of format would be available, I would probably not buy the cd. In fact, I only buy psytrance cds, for the others music genres like rap, in wich the sound quality is poor anyway, I download. And I know that many people do for psytrance what I do for others music genres. So if we want to increase the sale, we need to find something that will really add value to the cd and will be important to the majority of customer. Like a sleeve with more pages and lots of beautiful pictures. Autographing it is also a good idea. Adding a video to the cd can be interesting too. Adding a free entry to a party in the cd case could increase the sales. And these days, dvd sales are getting better than cd sales, maybe this is the solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 The key is to add some value to buying the cd. If you can download the music for free and get pretty much the same thing as if you would buy the cd, then of course a lot of people won't buy the cd. Some people don't care that much about the artwork and the physical aspect of the cd. If you're not a collector, maybe this isn't enough to make you buy the cd. And for the sound quality, not everyone is an audiophile, lots of people are very pleased with the sound quality they get from mp3, and with the improvement in the technology, we can expect to see better mp3 quality available for free download in the futur. For myself, I exctract all of my cds on my computer in 192/kbs wma and when I listen to it on my computer speakers, I don't really ear any difference between the cd and the wma. So if I would'nt care about owning a physical copy of the cd and if downloading this kind of format would be available, I would probably not buy the cd. In fact, I only buy psytrance cds, for the others music genres like rap, in wich the sound quality is poor anyway, I download. And I know that many people do for psytrance what I do for others music genres. So if we want to increase the sale, we need to find something that will really add value to the cd and will be important to the majority of customer. Like a sleeve with more pages and lots of beautiful pictures. Autographing it is also a good idea. Adding a video to the cd can be interesting too. Adding a free entry to a party in the cd case could increase the sales. And these days, dvd sales are getting better than cd sales, maybe this is the solution. 435774[/snapback] yeah, i agree about dvd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 Anything that distinguishes it from the masses. It needs to have some kind of a unique 'tag' or signature of some kind so that collectors can regard it as real 'property' With the current situation, an MP3 or .wav isn't truly perceived by a consumer as 'property'. 435706[/snapback] Any ideas what that "tag" or unique thing should be? What would be a cool thing that would make it more individual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAH Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 maybe you could cutomise the inside printin the CD to say... "RAH's property, back off!" OR... "Born to be scratched" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 The key is to add some value to buying the cd. If you can download the music for free and get pretty much the same thing as if you would buy the cd, then of course a lot of people won't buy the cd. Some people don't care that much about the artwork and the physical aspect of the cd. If you're not a collector, maybe this isn't enough to make you buy the cd. And for the sound quality, not everyone is an audiophile, lots of people are very pleased with the sound quality they get from mp3, and with the improvement in the technology, we can expect to see better mp3 quality available for free download in the futur. For myself, I exctract all of my cds on my computer in 192/kbs wma and when I listen to it on my computer speakers, I don't really ear any difference between the cd and the wma. So if I would'nt care about owning a physical copy of the cd and if downloading this kind of format would be available, I would probably not buy the cd. In fact, I only buy psytrance cds, for the others music genres like rap, in wich the sound quality is poor anyway, I download. And I know that many people do for psytrance what I do for others music genres. So if we want to increase the sale, we need to find something that will really add value to the cd and will be important to the majority of customer. Like a sleeve with more pages and lots of beautiful pictures. Autographing it is also a good idea. Adding a video to the cd can be interesting too. Adding a free entry to a party in the cd case could increase the sales. And these days, dvd sales are getting better than cd sales, maybe this is the solution. 435774[/snapback] Exactly my thoughts! Added value is probably the key.....the product itself needs to differentiate from free mp3 as much as possible. Adding a free entry to a party would be freakin' awsome...or maybe some kind of coupon that'd say 50% off of the door price for the band's live performance...Excellent idea!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 I don't think "added value" helps all that much, since most people are still just in it for the music... and, in many instances, the cost of a CD simply cannot be factored into a budget. A glaring anomaly is the fact that this is an EDM (electronic dance music) scene which, perhaps more than any other, permeates countries with a much lower gdp/capita i.e. the third world, yet everything still has a first world price tag associated with it. This comes up on forums but snooty Europeans quash objections with the problematic argument "well, you have internet access, don't you?" This is grossly insensitive to the reality on the ground, which only highlights the need for industry reform even more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 I don't think "added value" helps all that much, since most people are still just in it for the music... and, in many instances, the cost of a CD simply cannot be factored into a budget. A glaring anomaly is the fact that this is an EDM (electronic dance music) scene which, perhaps more than any other, permeates countries with a much lower gdp/capita i.e. the third world, yet everything still has a first world price tag associated with it. This comes up on forums but snooty Europeans quash objections with the problematic argument "well, you have internet access, don't you?" This is grossly insensitive to the reality on the ground, which only highlights the need for industry reform even more. 435812[/snapback] Again..very valid insight...you may very well be right...now what do you think the solution is? What kind of reform is needed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAH Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Again..very valid insight...you may very well be right...now what do you think the solution is? What kind of reform is needed? 435815[/snapback] it means prices should go down according reality of each country... spending 15 euros on a CD might not be much in the UK or whatever, but it's a bit of money where i live in latin america... and so is the same case in underveloped countries... price adjustments call for a serious re-structuring of the distribuiting houses though. And just like the attempt to keep DVD's regionalized failed miserably, if someone opens a an internet shop in say... ruanda with locally adjusted prices over the net, it could be a problem, when someone in the Sweeden is buying in this shop two or even 3 cd's for the price it would cost to buy one in is country. because ther is no way to monitor local goods priced in such schema would remain in the country. Psychedelic trance does not even have distribuiton arrangements all around the world (i mean ALL around the world) to impose these ideals. it would be the 'fair' thing to do, but since when does the world run according to fairness? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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