Discussion about is DJing an art and similar

[Guest run lola]

why do people like to bitch about everything ??

"why mix music, this sucks, not god enough, bad tracks, too fast, too slow... my stomach hurts.. bla bla blaaaaaaaaaaa..."

 

the guy wanted to fuckin mix some of his favorite tracks, and mixing music is not easy at all if u want to create a nice flowless set !

 

nice try Rain, i'm donwloading it right now... oops, not anymore, i got a firewall at work. the track list seems good to me. and i like Oldschool Goa.

anyway nice try Kooooon

[Ov3rdos3]

why do people like to bitch about everything ??

"

395083[/snapback]

Because bitching about someting is more of a challenge than just accepting it. Especially if there is nothing to bitch about. But if you work at it, and search long and hard, You will find something to bitch and moan about, no matter how wonderful it is. Us psynewsers love a challenge.

[Lepton]

this topic sucks I'm really dissapointed ! 

 

395027[/snapback]

post you mix in the mix section hopefully you will get more ontopic feedback ....

[Charlie]

why do people like to bitch about everything ??

"why mix music, this sucks, not god enough, bad tracks, too fast, too slow... my stomach hurts.. bla bla blaaaaaaaaaaa..."

 

395083[/snapback]

You may as well ask why do people like to praise everything?

 

Opinions, be they in accord or in contrast, are just that, opinions. There is no right and wrong and the sooner people come to terms with this the better it will be for all of us.

 

I'm getting sick of this "if you don't have anything positive to say then don't say anything at all" attitude.

[Krell]

You may as well ask why do people like to praise everything?

 

Opinions, be they in accord or in contrast, are just that, opinions. There is no right and wrong and the sooner people come to terms with this the better it will be for all of us.

 

I'm getting sick of this "if you don't have anything positive to say then don't say anything at all" attitude.

395104[/snapback]

I dont disagree with this.

 

Feedback is 3 things.

 

- The Good

- The Bad

- Constructive Critisizm & Encouragement where needed.

 

But, always relative to the topic at hand - and I dont think labelling djs as "not artists" and putting forth arguments which just display ones disrespect for their work + relevance on the basis of personal taste goes under any of those 3 points I just drew up.

 

Best Wishes

 

Krell

[Tatsu]

Since the discussion went a bit off topic in Rain's tread I've decided to split the thread up (well, after asking Rain about it of course). Here is the official DJ art or not discussion thread, hope you still have fun with it...

[radi6404]

Ah rain you´ve said that it is difficult to mix tracks but do you have an idea how difficult it is to do a track that sounds professional, taht´s really art and a skill. I slow get it how to make a track that sounds comercial but it is still almost impossible, you must give the best of you to make a track sound comercial.

[Guest Rain]

Ah rain you´ve said that it is difficult to mix tracks but do you have an idea how difficult it is to do a track that sounds professional, taht´s really art and a skill. I slow get it how to make a track that sounds comercial but it is still almost impossible, you must give the best of you to make a track sound comercial.

395500[/snapback]

I have friends who make goa and already released on compilations on psyshop and sit there all the time...

 

cubase, perfect speakers, software, hardware...

 

have you ever been in a studio where goa is created ???

 

you ask me if I know If i have an idea how it is to create a track

 

jezus man... get a grip... your post are so but so stupid....

 

don't think you know everything about everybody...

 

you don't know me so STOP talking to me like a noob it's really getting annoying !

[vitali]

I don't mean to sound negative, but what's the fascination with mixes?

 

I've never understood why they're so popular, it's just tracks that are alreay out there but mixed together. For that reason I don't have much respect for DJ's either, they don't create the music, they're not artists, yet people go crazy over them. Why? It's weird.

394641[/snapback]

agree on this

 

goa trance mixes are not so popular somehow, djs just do their work, mixing tracks on the party and then almost nobody will listen to the mix again.

however

techno mixes are much more popular, i often listen them probably because few new techno music is written.

 

well probably im not right, im not an expert in this business.

[Charlie]

you ask me if I know If i have an idea how it is to create a track 

 

jezus man... get a grip... your post are so but so stupid....

 

don't think you know everything about everybody...

 

you don't know me so STOP talking to me like a noob it's really getting annoying !

395592[/snapback]

Let's try and keep this friendly and free from personal jibes. It's better that way.

[Guest Rain]

Let's try and keep this friendly and free from personal jibes. It's better that way.

395599[/snapback]

 

you 2 both start unrespectfull trashing my topic totally, bashing off totally...

 

I have the patience to ignore all your stupid post for 2 days long and now YOU are going to tell ME that I have to be friendly for ONE post I reply...

 

look in the mirror and judge... that's the only advice I can give you

[Charlie]

   

 

you 2 both start unrespectfull trashing my topic totally, bashing off totally...

 

I have the patience to ignore all your stupid post for 2 days long and now YOU are going to tell ME that I have to be friendly for ONE post I reply...

 

look in the mirror and judge... that's the only advice I can give you 

395604[/snapback]

I don't think I was disrespectful nor do I believe I 'trashed' or 'bashed' your topic.

 

Fact is I just happen to hold an opinion in contrast to your own. If you can't see that then you can't see that but there's no need to get rude or upset about it.

 

Live and let live.

[Krell]

Ah rain you´ve said that it is difficult to mix tracks but do you have an idea how difficult it is to do a track that sounds professional, taht´s really art and a skill. I slow get it how to make a track that sounds comercial but it is still almost impossible, you must give the best of you to make a track sound comercial.

395500[/snapback]

This only shows that you have no idea of how hard it is to create a complete & working dj set - making it sound professional as well as interesting for the audience which understands the difference between a good and bad dj set (preferring them for home listening over a normal CD or on a Radio).

 

There is no art that is more difficult than the other - If art becomes easy, the demands for perfection & originality increase along with the arts accesibility - Simply due to an increase in competition, its survival of the fittest. This is why my art I made in kindergarden isnt on display anywhere but at the garbage dump these days.

 

When presenting music in a live environment, the DJ will always be superior to the producer in general. DJs will have to compete amongst themselves, and with the producers for slots on the lineups - This creates challenges for everybody involved. (which means, its definately not easy).

Its IS however easy to call yourself either "dj or artist" and if you have money even "label" - but, its is not easy to earn the recognition to become KNOWN & VALUED as a good artist as compared to a bad one.

 

Ive spent time producing tracks along with producers as well as djing - Its just totally different, and yet not. The producers build up their tracks of samples which they run through synths etc and put them in a sequence (arranged according to musical rules & "whatever works works") - DJs do the exact same thing, but with the complete tracks into sets which are also obeying a set of rules mainly again "whatever works works".

In the end - Its not the individual samples or tracks which is the artform, but the total experience of the artists product/art.

 

Art is always easy, art is always difficult & beauty is always in the eye of the beholder.... but if someone is blind, and doesnt understand art, they cant accept it as such - and you dont seem to understand the art of Djing, neither do you appreciate the nuances within DJ sets etc.

 

I can make music, its easy - But it WILL suck.

 

I can DJ, its hard, and it WILL rock.

 

if I was a gifted producer it would be.

 

I can make music, its hard - But it WILL rock

 

I can DJ, its easy - But it WILL suck.

 

More or less applicable across the board I think. With exceptions, there are always exceptions :-)

 

You clearly do not understand DJing, thus you think its easy to achieve a product that will ROCK - but you understand a bit of music production to understand that its pretty hard to get something that sounds right.

 

Your blind to DJing, but know music production. Am I wrong ? :-) You think DJing is just knowing some good music & mixing it up by beatmixing right ?

 

Best Wishes

 

Krell

[Charlie]

You clearly do not understand DJing, thus you think its easy to achieve a product that will ROCK - but you understand a bit of music production to understand that its pretty hard to get something that sounds right.

 

395614[/snapback]

The thing is when I go to a club, a rave or a festival all I care is that the track selection is good, that the tracks fall within my taste. I honestly don't mind if the 20 or 30 seconds of mixing one track into the next is piss poor or perfect. It's the meat and bones that matters to me, the actual tracks.

[moni]

I honestly don't mind if the 20 or 30 seconds of mixing one track into the next is piss poor or perfect.

395618[/snapback]

i do mind if the dj screws up the passing from a track to another.

quite a few people do. well, i've seen people commenting or laughing.

[Krell]

The thing is when I go to a club, a rave or a festival all I care is that the track selection is good, that the tracks fall within my taste. I honestly don't mind if the 20 or 30 seconds of mixing one track into the next is piss poor or perfect. It's the meat and bones that matters to me, the actual tracks.

395618[/snapback]

Yeah - In EVERYTHING I wrote on this subject I was also downplaying the technique side of DJing wasnt I ?

 

The most important thing is the selection of music - and I dont know if you ever noticed it, but there is different kinds of music for different kinds of moods - so, you need to know how to manipulate & stimulate those moods / the experience for the crowd + yourself

 

A good DJ will make the music become more than the single sum of every track put together - at the end of a good DJ set what you have is more than just the positive effects of every single/individual track, siince the DJ managed to add to the experience by choosing the right track at the right time, and mixing it together so that the transition doesnt sound annoying (which you can do with all tracks, they need to fit - the better your technique, the more tracks you can mix, and the higher quality tracks you can choose).

 

That is what is difficult - And not the technique really.

 

Now - If you NEVER heard a DJ spinning that was able to do that for you, then you might actually have gained a bit of knowledge about how hard an art form DJing is. (because, that is also individual) - During THE WHOLE of 2005 I only heard 1 DJ who REALLY impressed me (like WAUW), and that was Atmos (not live, but as a DJ).......

So, thats ONE positive experience for me....... Another Turntablist DJ (DJ T.O.M impressed also, but that was not psytrance Djing, Turntablism is a different artform from psytrance DJing).

 

Btw - My mixes are normally between 3 minuttes and 30 seconds- 30s is normally the minimum unless its a fade mix (since 25-30 seconds = 64beats, which I tend to aim for when mixing).

Sometimes I will go back and forth between the tracks while EQing them etc + pitch bending them + always remembering where in the 2 tracks I am...

Thats only technique though - and Mixing Technique is not my main focus, main focus is trackselection & flow.

 

Best Wishes

 

Krell

[Basilisk]

I know I should probably read all this crap and give a good thoughtful response to change some people's perceptions but I can't bring myself to do it.

 

Taking DJing to a higher level is really much harder than just fucking around. Maybe you're not in tune with the difference between good and bad DJing but it doesn't invalidate the art, if we're going to call it that.

 

How many millions of debates about the definition of art have to pass before it becomes clear that art is what you make of it, and any dedicated soul can make just about anything into an art?

[Krell]

How many millions of debates about the definition of art have to pass before it becomes clear that art is what you make of it, and any dedicated soul can make just about anything into an art?

395632[/snapback]

 

992487321657321689924873216573216899248732165732168992487321657321689924873216573216899248732165732168992487321657321689924873216573216899248732165732168992487321657321689924873216573216899248732165732168992487321657321689924873216573216899248732165732168992487321657321689924873216573216899248732165732168992487321657321689924873216573216899248732165732168 Millions :-)

[Charlie]

The words art and artist are too frequently thrown around these days. In it's purest meaning an artist is someone who creates music, paintings, literature and sculpture.

 

I wouldn't call someone who works in a museum, who's job it is to decide what painting to hang next to what painting, an artist. Likewise I wouldn't call a DJ, who decides what track to play next to what track, an artist.

[Colin OOOD]

The words art and artist are too frequently thrown around these days. In it's purest meaning an artist is someone who creates music, paintings, literature and sculpture.

 

I wouldn't call someone who works in a museum, who's job it is to decide what painting to hang next to what painting, an artist. Likewise I wouldn't call a DJ, who decides what track to play next to what track, an artist.

395639[/snapback]

Ah, but the phrase "There's an art to making an exhibition out of a collection of paintings" makes sense, no?

[Charlie]

Ah, but the phrase "There's an art to making an exhibition out of a collection of paintings" makes sense, no?

395649[/snapback]

It does make sense, yes, I agree.

 

You're an artist and a DJ, do you feel you're producing art while spinning material at the turntables to a crowd of people?

[Krell]

The words art and artist are too frequently thrown around these days. In it's purest meaning an artist is someone who creates music, paintings, literature and sculpture.

 

I wouldn't call someone who works in a museum, who's job it is to decide what painting to hang next to what painting, an artist. Likewise I wouldn't call a DJ, who decides what track to play next to what track, an artist.

395639[/snapback]

I said everything I wanted to say, its clear that you do not understand the details that go into Trance DJing & in what sense the Trance DJ creates (and what exactly this creation is) - Or, you do not recognize that creation of this experience as being artistic.

 

So, we can agree to disagree - Theres no use of engaging in endless debate when noone really learns anything by it.

 

Suffice to say - We have different perceptions of the matter :-) Then again, Im a DJ, so I am biased to my own reality, and if you do not recognize what I wrote as being artistic traits - then for you that is the way it is.

 

Just, to comment on your last remark - A painter who paints houses with color is perhaps not an artist, but a painter who paints pictures (like Rembrandt) is right ? But they are both just smearing paint on a surface.......... What if BOTH painters said they were artists ?

 

What matters is how you do it and most of all WHY - In a sense, the artists themselves deside what he or she is - Anyone can call themselves an artist and say what they do is art by defining it as such - What is up to others to decide is whether they are good artists or not, not whether they are artists in the first place.

 

We are all artists, when we want to be. How good we are, thats another matter. Artistry is one long grey scale, and you can not be more of an artists than others - The scale however measures how good an artist you are, and not whether you are an artist or not. (in a sense how good your art is, subjectively experienced)

 

So simple, yet so complex to comprehend :-)

 

I guess the problem is that Trance DJs do get a lot of attention due to their nature of being put in the middle of an event... and as such, he/she is compared to different art forms, such as live musicians (when he is actually more of a blend between the musician, shaman, storyteller, hypnotist, director, turntablist, psykologist, cook etc)...

Which means their art is not judged by the defining ruleset which Trance DJs themselves set for their art, but by what other people without true insight into the complexities of trance DJing associate with live music reproduction / performances (which constitute THAT art, and not the art of Trance DJing).

 

Some people dont think electronic music is art either - After all its made by a machine/computer and not played by human beings - Its the same dilemma, and it just goes to show the ignorance of some people / lack of an open mind to comprehend new or different things.

 

Best Wishes

 

Krell

[Charlie]

So, we can agree to disagree - Theres no use of engaging in endless debate when noone really learns anything by it.

 

Just, to comment on your last remark - A painter who paints houses with color is perhaps not an artist, but a painter who paints pictures (like Rembrandt) is right ? But they are both just smearing paint on a surface..........  What if BOTH painters said they were artists ? 

395653[/snapback]

I agree to agreeing to disagree. We've both put our points of view across and I respect your opinion.

 

In regards to comparing someone who paints houses and someone who paints pictures, a painter who paints houses is painting the house to protect it from rain and damp and therefore providing a function.

 

Art is never about function, it is about communicating something on an intellectual level, it transcends practical purpose.

[radi6404]

   

 

you 2 both start unrespectfull trashing my topic totally, bashing off totally...

 

I have the patience to ignore all your stupid post for 2 days long and now YOU are going to tell ME that I have to be friendly for ONE post I reply...

 

look in the mirror and judge... that's the only advice I can give you 

395604[/snapback]

From where i should know that he is far in goa? If anyone don´t like anything from the other the other have the right to attack him or what goes with you Rain??? Not i´am stupid, seens you´re stupid, your trackselection in the set isn´t bad but not very good and if you don´t get "dear Rain, this is awesome man" you begin to fight or what?

[Krell]

Art is never about function, it is about communicating something on an intellectual level, it transcends practical purpose.

395658[/snapback]

 

Good, when I create a DJ set I try to communicate a trail of thought, feelings, moods & audio experiences to the listener - I try to influence whatever pictures is painted inside the listeners mind by using themes that interact - Also, I consider what trancestates the different tracks modulate in order for the listener to have a diversive journey thru the music.

 

It all uses different abilities, which are basicly the same you use when you produce music - just that you are not producing music, you are producing a total experience of music put together. (the more time I spend on this task, the better the product is)

 

Well - In my world it fits, in yours it doesnt :-) Lets just disagree hehe :-)

 

Best Wishes

 

Krell