HolyLight Posted August 10, 2020 Share Posted August 10, 2020 Maybe this new Eventide plugin Shimmerverb could be useful for goa, anyone tried it yet? https://youtu.be/T9MCwivHN10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astralprojection Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 28 minutes ago, astralprojection said: . Ok I'll interpret the microdot as "haven't tried it yet" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astralprojection Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 No I posted a video comparing the h3000 vs the newer software version. But then I had second thoughts cause the video itself was kinda cringy and the poster used his "singing" if you could call it that, as the sound source for comparison No i haven't tried that plugin you posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 34 minutes ago, astralprojection said: No I posted a video comparing the h3000 vs the newer software version. But then I had second thoughts cause the video itself was kinda cringy and the poster used his "singing" if you could call it that, as the sound source for comparison No i haven't tried that plugin you posted Aha haha, well I hope they someday release all ther best algos in a plugin, the ones used in the Eventide's most used in goa trance in the 90s that is. Hopefully this Eventide plugin can do atleast something slightly reminiscent of that. Although I'm not expecting too much. Atleast it seems Eventide are waking up and realizing that for example Valhalla is closing in on their turf. Anyone has any experience/opinion on this Swedish plugin? Seems good for distortion on separate channels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astralprojection Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 apparently thats exactly what they did with their new h3000 plugin https://www.eventideaudio.com/products/effects/pitch-delay-modulation-filtering/h3000-factory but it lacks everything (imho) that made the original so good. now it sounds just like any stock plugin id say. no character, sound profile, or anything like that. it has no "mojo". in my opinion at least=) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted August 11, 2020 Share Posted August 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, astralprojection said: apparently thats exactly what they did with their new h3000 plugin https://www.eventideaudio.com/products/effects/pitch-delay-modulation-filtering/h3000-factory but it lacks everything (imho) that made the original so good. now it sounds just like any stock plugin id say. no character, sound profile, or anything like that. it has no "mojo". in my opinion at least=) Aha didn't know about that one been kinda out of the loop, gotta check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astralprojection Posted August 11, 2020 Author Share Posted August 11, 2020 its not great, i think you can do better with logics native stuff =) but it was very interesting to hear all those drastic differences, from the same manufacturer, with the same name- and 20 something years later. but still sounds worse than the orignial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 Some screenshots of Astral Projections old studio from this documentary: Even a closeup of their black and white DAW computer screen I wonder what track that melody pertains to? Either a lead or bass/acidic pattern perhaps, my bet is on a lead. Very informative documentary which captured the vibe there in Israel at the time, and also the info about Yaniv Haviv leaving Astral to pursue religion. I'm trying to grasp exacly during which year the AP interview was recorded, they talk about Mahadeva beeing released kinda recently it seems, so it's definitely the Trust In Trance era, perhaps recording of the Dancing Galaxy album? The info about when the documentary was released I found online: Information Type: Documentary Year: 1996 Total Time: 53:00 Styles: Ambient, Disco, Industrial, Minimal, Space Rock, Techno Formats: DVD Liscense: Copyright Cast: Ikutaro Kakehashi Kazuhiro Terada Haruomi Hosono Ken Ishii Key Dj Steve Hillage Director: Martin Meissonnifer, Jean Jacques Flori Producer: Marco Cherqui Soundtrack: Distance Productions Editor: Philipe Rouget Sound: George Lafitte, Marie Bossy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted May 26, 2021 Share Posted May 26, 2021 While analyzing some tracks from the Hallucinogen Twisted album in Logic, for example with a phase meter. I’m very surprised with the tracks beeing so tightly controlled with regards to the phase correlation. I suppose it was even more imortant back then due to the tracks needing to be compatible with the Vinyl format and so on. So my question is, what did they use back then to ensure the phase was correct and meter/monitor the phase correlation? Did the mixing desks have this feature built in to monitor it? Or was it something that was fixed at the mastering stage by the mastering engineer? I was thinking that the tracks would be phasing all over the place since phasers were such an integral part of the Hallucinogen sound. But yeah neat productions indeed. I’m thinking that perhaps a contributing factor to the perfect phase correlation of these old tracks could also in part be because they relied more on widening tricks, which includes to pan delays and channel in opposite directions. Instead of today were we use a lot of widening plugins, which sometimes aren’t optimal when combined with phasers and other effects. And hmm they probably made a mono bus on the mixing desk to which they routed all the frequency content below a certain frequency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astralprojection Posted May 27, 2021 Author Share Posted May 27, 2021 I think it just boils down to the time that music was created. Alot of people didn't have huge desks with tons of channels, so they were forced to have many of their layers in mono, and save the precious stereo channels for only a few things. And mono is perfect phase correlation while the sides always have some slight cancellations and differences. That's my guess at least, to why the older 90s stuff are so phase coherent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted May 27, 2021 Share Posted May 27, 2021 1 hour ago, astralprojection said: I think it just boils down to the time that music was created. Alot of people didn't have huge desks with tons of channels, so they were forced to have many of their layers in mono, and save the precious stereo channels for only a few things. And mono is perfect phase correlation while the sides almost always have some slight cancellations and differences. That's my guess at least, to why the older 90s stuff are so phase coherent. Good hypothesis! Anyone who was active in the 90’s who can give some insight? I’m thinking that perhaps the Mackie 32 8 bus series must’ve had some phase meter on the metering bridge accessory. What I don’t know is what year that mixing desk was released and started to be used by goa artists. I’m thinking that desk must’ve had 32 stereo channels right? And so they might’ve used some of those split in mono to get some more channels? Filteria used that very same mixing desk on his early albums atleast, so I don’t think it would be 32 mono channels atleast that would suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astralprojection Posted May 28, 2021 Author Share Posted May 28, 2021 well, in case im very mistaken, isnt a 32 channel desk 32 mono channels or 16 stereo channels? if so that limitation of having to use mono for alot of things would make sense. ive never owned a mixer but perhaps those 32 channels are in fact stereo channels. Then my hypothesis kinda doesnt work ^^ yes indeed would be cool to hear from 90s music makers on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 53 minutes ago, astralprojection said: well, in case im very mistaken, isnt a 32 channel desk 32 mono channels or 16 stereo channels? if so that limitation of having to use mono for alot of things would make sense. ive never owned a mixer but perhaps those 32 channels are in fact stereo channels. Then my hypothesis kinda doesnt work ^^ yes indeed would be cool to hear from 90s music makers on this Yeah you’re probably right! 64 mono channels seems a bit overkill. I mean atleast in retrospective, that seems like a lot of channels. Which I’m not really hearing in those old tunes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted May 28, 2021 Share Posted May 28, 2021 Found some specs and the owners manual: http://www.advancedaudiorentals.com/products/details/productid/34 http://www.advancedaudiorentals.com/docs/Mackie 32B 8 Bus_Manual.pdf I had no idea it was released way back in 1993. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imba Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 MIDI wife old basses aren't much different comparing to one today, it's synthesis. Here are few examples of old school basses. Electric Universe - Solar Energy Electric Universe - One Love Dimension 5 - Omega Centaurus The Overlords - Sundown Genetic - Trancemission 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imba Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 Bassline from my new track... but now you have that super fast envelopes, phasing and sidechain they didnt use in 90s 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 1 minute ago, Psychedelic Superbeast said: where can i find this Documentary? Oh they took it down dat sux. Then I don’t know, it was really interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 41 minutes ago, Imba said: MIDI wife old basses aren't much different comparing to one today, it's synthesis. Here are few examples of old school basses. Electric Universe - Solar Energy Electric Universe - One Love Dimension 5 - Omega Centaurus The Overlords - Sundown Genetic - Trancemission mad cool, did you recreate by ear or from official midis? kinda sick that they put the notes on the same time the kick hits? And without sidechain I would assume. Hmm makes sense! Since they often programmed the bass patterns directly in the synthesizers onboard sequencer, SH-101/MC-202/TB-303 etc. Hmm pt2 now I realized they programmed the velocity values as well so must be inside daw they did it then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted May 29, 2021 Share Posted May 29, 2021 The most fascinating thing ever would be to see how Hallucinogen and Infected Mushrooms project files looked like. Perhaps lots of audio tracks of course, but the midi parts would be cool to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imba Posted May 30, 2021 Share Posted May 30, 2021 On 5/29/2021 at 6:13 PM, AstralSphinx said: mad cool, did you recreate by ear or from official midis? kinda sick that they put the notes on the same time the kick hits? And without sidechain I would assume. Hmm makes sense! Since they often programmed the bass patterns directly in the synthesizers onboard sequencer, SH-101/MC-202/TB-303 etc. Hmm pt2 now I realized they programmed the velocity values as well so must be inside daw they did it then? I did not, some were recreated by our own Padmapani and rest I got from original projects from artists to remix 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 12 hours ago, Imba said: I did not, some were recreated by our own Padmapani and rest I got from original projects from artists to remix That's epic! A question, in those older tracks did they ever let any melodies/patterns run for longer durations than 32 bars? I'm reflecting a bit on song structure in those older days and comparing it to older Techno and Acid, which of course were much more monotone in their structures in comparison to Goa Trance. But the similarities/overlap between some of the early stuff is of course there sometimes. One example of a track which let's the main motif run for 32 bars is Mystica-Ashes To Ashes, other times I think 16 bars for a main motif is more common. How did Dimension 5 arrange their tracks in that regard? Since to me their tracks always appeared more hypnotic/acidic, and as they put it themselves, they made Space Techno or something I think? I need to import some older goa tracks into logic and analyze the structure some. For example in modern Techno I've found it is extremely common that the same pattern is repeated throughout the entire song, except for in the, intro and break segments. So it's almost an art of making one single pattern be so catchy that it hopefully doesn't get boring for the listener throughtout the duration of the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted June 21, 2021 Share Posted June 21, 2021 On 5/29/2021 at 5:36 PM, Imba said: MIDI wife old basses aren't much different comparing to one today, it's synthesis. Here are few examples of old school basses. Electric Universe - Solar Energy Electric Universe - One Love Dimension 5 - Omega Centaurus The Overlords - Sundown Genetic - Trancemission Once again big thanks! This is great stuff to learn from, straight From the Source, together with the BPM and Key available on Beatport.com Btw speaking of BPM for Goa Trance these days, what do you guys reckon, is 150 BPM as some of the Dimension 5 tracks are in, a good tempo for todays listener/dance floors etc? One track is even in 161 bpm according to beatport. Dunno if it’s correct tho. As sometimes the bpm are wrong when intro is dedected as a lower bpm for some tracks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imba Posted June 22, 2021 Share Posted June 22, 2021 18 hours ago, AstralSphinx said: Once again big thanks! This is great stuff to learn from, straight From the Source, together with the BPM and Key available on Beatport.com Btw speaking of BPM for Goa Trance these days, what do you guys reckon, is 150 BPM as some of the Dimension 5 tracks are in, a good tempo for todays listener/dance floors etc? I have no clue what BPM ranges people are in these days. 150 seems to be very energetic indeed and I quite like it. Gives a good rush, but I remember that atleast the Neo Goa in the 2000's was a bit slower in comparison, 138/146 bpm ish. And also of course some of the Old School was a bit slower as well sometimes, Sheyba etc. I produce 142-150 but rarely play bellow 145, I just don't feel it 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolyLight Posted August 1, 2021 Share Posted August 1, 2021 A question, in this tour of Hallucinogen's studio he talks briefly about his distressor units. He explains that he uses them on kick drums to get that "bock" or knocky type character to the kicks as he puts it. Can anyone recommend something similar in the plugin-realm? I've been experimenting a bit with different distortion units, such as Output Thermal. Which has a couple of different waveshaper algos, that kinda gets into the Hallucinogen kick territory. What other effects are there that I could look into? And btw what's the opinion on using a delay on the bass as he does in the video? I know it was very common in the 90's. Is it a thing in new school goa? I would assume that it goes against the whole kick/bass-alignment techniques of today. It sounds cool to my ears atleast and I haven't really been following the latest stuff lately. I mostly listen to Dimension-5, Hallucinogen, Miranda, Pleiadians/Etnica/ and a few other classics. If anyone has any old school kick drums to share that would be cool as well. For the vintage museum of archaeological goa trance artifacts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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