Spindrift

Well...I react if people is offensive, narrowminded or out of line. Sure my reaction will be offensive as well, but I promise you that you will never see me opening a post about how bad people who listen to progg is or in other ways spew out my discontent over people that like a certain genre. When I was a teen listening to synth music many friends was hating heavy metal fans, it was like gang wars between electronic music fans and metal fans. Most people I know grew up and don't care what other people listen to nowadays. EP's post don't reflect a great understanding of the scene as I see it, and if you or EP don't like me to say that...well I will make a note about that and keep it in my list of things I could not care less about.

You are a funny guy. First you make a long rant about something you dislike, and then you get upset if someone else rants in the topic. Ok you think it's fine to say anything about people making dark music, hippes or people using drugs. I do take offense when you speak like you do about things that I, my freinds and my family stand for. So if you don't want to upset people don't generalise in the way you do. It's not only gay people or people from the third world you have to try to be understanding towards. Otherwise it just seems like some superficial PC attitude. You do speak like a very ignorant person indeed. Whats the big deifference to saying something like: Compared to something like: Or: Compared to: Or: Compared to: Or: Compared to: Appearently it's a personal insult to you if I think you don't understand the scene. Well...you obviously don't IMO....sorry for being personal, but thats clearly the case, and I couldn't care less if you can't get down from your high horse and think that you actually understand the scene in spite of constant bashing of the predominant styles of music. Where you got from that I said that you only like progressive or can't have understanding of the scene because you never been to Goa I don't know. Thats in your paranoia, and not in my words. I met plenty of people who have an understanding of the scene and the music without having been to Goa, and I know people who like progressive but is openminded enough to appreciate good darkpsy or full-on as well. There is good music in every genere, but usually mostly crap. To bash a whole genre like you constantly do is something you rarely see from true music enthusiasts and does seem a bit immature for a producer like yourself. My guess why you think you understand the scene but still continously complain about the most popular forms of psychedelic trance today, dark and full-on, is that you must think you actually know the scene better than other people. The scene is not what you think it is, it's what the people together make it. So if you don't like it let the people who like it enjoy and you enjoy your thing whatever it is. Live and let live.

To say that it's devil worshipping because someone names their track "hell raver" is exaggreating a bit. When i got in to this music some 15 yrs ago there was a lot of really dark music, and I always been in to the darker and heavier side of the scene. Sure there is a lot of the current wave of dark music that is too formularic in style and track names, but if you think thats scene always been about happy smiley party music you have IMO missed what the music is about and it's roots. Much EBM that was played in Goa in the 80's make many of the "dark" artists today seem like Britney in comparasion. I remember parties in Goa in the beginning of the 90's with a war theme in the decoration and really dark night music. The people making the party or DJ'ing was hardly devil worshippers. It was about making people confront the dark and aggressive side of themself as a cleansing process, and the dark music make a nice contrast with the sunny happy morning music. If people got aggressions and fears it's no use playing fluffy music to try to make them forget about it if you want them to become more in harmony. Let them dig down into and confront their dark side and work it out on a healthy dose of psychedelics on the dancefloor. It does work, and I have seen it change many people for the better. I personally don't worship the devil, but there is connections to the devil and hindu gods which I do worship like Shiva and Kali. To worship a force that represents dark and "evil" forces does not mean that you like to see a more evil world. It's about understanding the dark forces in creation and try to see what function they fill so you can understand a lot more of reality as being positive, and as a result become a more happy and content person yourself. And if you look into the values of a lot of the producers and labels behind the dark music you will find that they are actually peace loving and quite concerned with other peoples wellbeing. Take devilsmind records who is a non-profit label giving away any profit they make to charity. Or take a pioneer for dark electronic psychedelic music like skinny puppy. Sure they had a infamous live show throwing blood at the audience and sound like they wish everyone suffer and die. But if you study their message and lyrics you notice that they are growling about how bad vivisection or chemical warfare is. And look into the roots of the hippy movement. The acid test and the imagery used by bands like grateful dead and pink floyd for example is not just fluffy flowers and smiley rainbows for sure. I must say EP that you obviously don't understand the scene, it's roots or the people involved in it. If you think it should be about fluffy progg, fine, you can have your opinion. But the scene is full of hippes taking psychedelics, and you seem to have zero understanding for both hippes and psychedelics. So if you don't like the music, the people or what they stand for I really wonder why you hang out in this forum and seem so concered about the state of the scene. Just do your thing and let other people do theirs. I might think progressive is crap music for people who is too inhibited to dance properly or take too much coke and E to escape rather than confront reality, but I don't open a thread complaining about it. Ok, if some darkpsy artist actually summon the evil forces against you, by all means come in hear and tell how evil they are. Otherwise....just live and let live and don't listen to dark trance or full-on if you don't like it.

Indeed...very psygoatdelic I told you before I like you basslines...they are nicely wandering and makes a nice atmosphere. I was waiting for the hi-hats to come on to make it pump a bit more, but as a first couple of minutes of the track it could manage without. Kick and bass is ok although if one should be fuzzy slightly muddy. I think the main thing is to find a synth or settings with a little bit more punchy envelopes. The kick could also do with a bit more punch if you want to bring the sound quality up one level, but it works as it is now and comes thru enough. The synths and other sounds is nicely stretchy and psychedelic and I think they sound very nice as they are. Keep up the good work...and I will patiently wait top hear a full track from you.

Where is the fact in your statement. "Mp3 is indeed killing the market".....what do you base that on? Just interesting to know since you say you don't like assumptions. I don't like assumptions presented as fact either, but from the information and research I can find your opinion is hardly capable to present as a fact. And labels don't keep the scene alive...the scene was born from the underground when it was about free music for free parties. The market is secondary and if you have strive to hard, don't bother, you are not doing anyone but yourself a favour. There will music and it will get out to people without your services. Get yourself a proper day job instead or sell products that is more commercially viable if there is no market in trance. But don't blame the fans or the artists, it will not change the fact that your services is less needed nowadays and that you have to change business model or find a new way of making money.

Ehhmmm...so Europe is pure rock spirit IYO? I'm sure there was some crap cheezy classical composers as well....but who remembers them nowadays? Sure trance will not die, at least as long we are alive it will at least have nostalgig value, like rock nowadays And it will live on as an inspiration for other styles for sure.

I agree with what you say Trolsk, but you have to keep in mind how the music industry works in general. There is always artitst dying to get a release or a gig. Big mainstream labels like EMI and Sony have ripped of a lot of artists in their days, there is sevreal books on that subject detaling how some of the biggest artists in the record industry got totally screwed in their contracts. If we talk about signing with big serious labels the contract is not an A4 page of paragraphs, it's more like a phonebook, and it will cost you a lot more than $100 to get a lawyer to look thru the deal. Usually a new artists get so excited when a massive label want to sign them so they hardly consider the terms. And if you bitch abou the deal there is pleanty of more innocent artists eager to get a release at any cost, or they do like nowadays, don't sign artists but buy the track from a songwriter and find a singer and dancer to perform it and hence create the artist themself. So EMI don't have problems finding new artists in spite of their history. This scene is a of course different in a lot of aspects, but the thing that is the same is that there is always plenty of artists available that will not give the labels trouble and will hardly look at the contract. And even if the contract will maybe only be an A4 page it just don't make sense to pay $100 if you find a very cheap lawyer to look thru the contract on a deal many times worth about $200. So what ukiro say is correct many times, bitch to much and you will not get releases. And bitching behind the labels back with other artists and in forums will easily backfire as well. I do think that artists in general should be more demanding on the labels, but as long as there is a lot of artists that is eager enough to not put strict demands in the contracts the ones that do will surely get less releases.

Ok...I was a bit harsh...it's worth a bit more than toilet paper sometimes. You can go with your contract to the bailiff in sweden also I guess if you and the label is Swedish, but since we are talking about royalties I doubt they will deal with it since it normally should go thru the royalty organisation. If the label and artist is registered with the royalty organisation then they will if neccessary provide lawyers to claim your money what i have understood.

You might as well work with muddy toilet paper, because like I said there is just not enough money to involve a lawyer anyway so the contract is not wort anything. Trust and reputation is the only way to try to make sure you don't get screwed. Do you get more paid than what was agreed when the arrangers make a lot of profit? In my experience not, so I don't think it's justified to not pay because you fail on some parties. I did a few parties myself, and the thought to not pay the DJ's never crossed my mind when I made a loss. Thats just how it goes when you arrange parties if you are not very organized, and if you only want to have profit and never loose money you shouln't be making parties or you have to be very good at promoting. To skip on agreements made with artists or DJ's should not be an option IMO. Why not try to explain that you didn't make enough money to the sound or venue owners instead? As to why to buy records... To do it to support the artists seems like a strange reason to me. I think most people buy records because they look nice on the shelf or because of a obsession with collecting. If you are concerned with supporting the artists it's very easy to get their email address and send them a paypal payment instead of spending almost $20 on an album to give less than $1 to the artist. Sorry for whinching so much....I did not want to try to point fingers at any bad labels really, but Anoebis defense of the number one lame excuse made me have to respond. There is of course some good labels as well. Most of the serious labels that knew how to run a business and had the money to do it stopped when trance idid not sell so well anymore. To run a label today in a just way you have to be fantically dedicated and I can say that for example Guiseppe from Parvatti is for all I know very fair and is working hard to release music he belives in and seems more concerned with making sure the artists get their share than getting a profit from running the label. Or Shlabbaduerst is a fine example of a sensible way to release underground music. Since there is no money to be earned really on underground party music, why bother with the big machinery of distributors and shops when there is less risky and less costly ways of getting the music out to the people who like to get hold of it? But on every label owner like them it seems to be 10 that can't get things together, don't care about keeping their deals with the artists or simply do not have the neccessary finances to run a business. In any normal business they would be declared bankrupt very quickly, but since they make sure to pay the pressing of CD's the small amounts that artists should have is not enough to bother to go to the bailiff with, hence they can go on running a shoddy business for quite many years.

I'm sorry to say, but I really think you are a bit naive on this subject. Do you think many trance releases actually generate enough money to justify hiring a lawyer to try to claim your money? And if it's a few months that payment is overdue or the label is bakrupt then it's sad but I can understand it. But from the artists I know complaining that is not the case, so your defense of the labels and their excuses is just silly IMO. Can you mention one example of an artist that is upset because the label is indeed bankrupt or that he didn't get his money in a couple of months after the release? Can you mention one label that have been waiting for more than a year for the money from the release? I won't mention examples of labels here, but it's not only from my experience and there is several labels I know of who keep releasing new material but still go on with the "blame it on the distributors" crap to artists. The money for printing new releases comes from somewhere, so before you belive a label owner crying about not having money because of the distributors just have a look in discogs and you will find out that usually it's not a position that need to be defended in a discussion like this. Is it ok with you if I book you for a DJ gig and promise you decent payment and then after you played don't pay you saying that the sound guys ripped me off so there was no profit, but you can have your money if the party I'm making next weekend make enough profit?

Distributors many times is very slow to pay but it's up to the label what distributor they use and what deal they make with them. The artist make a deal with the label not with the distributor, so when the distributors pay the label is not their concern. When I get a mechanic to fix my car and then don't pay them because my employers did not pay me it's ok? If you don't have money to pay the artists don't run a label or make commercial parties, it's simple as that. If the label do not fulfill the deal it's their fault, maybe for being stupid enough for starting a label without the neccessary financials or maybe for using the wrong distributor, but nevertheless the fault is theirs.

ResonantEarth have the pleasure to present another Swedish producer of crazy and dark night music, Traskel. Two new tracks from him added to http://www.resonantearth.com for your listening/downloading/shopping pleasure: Geometric Visions and Gargala. Enjoy!

I didn't read the whole thread but I saw Skinny Puppy mentioned, and I must say for me personally they was the biggest inspiration I had to start making psychedelic electronic music. Of course frontline assembly and Front242 has not to be forgotten, and I'm glad to see that they obviously are not. I don't know if they was mentioned before in this thread, but FSOL influence on acid and later trance was huge. Their Stakker Humanoid was the most defining track for the acid scene at the time and did a lot to shape the sound of countless producers. Mental Cube - Q is another example of one of their many projects which was setting the standards for how psychedelic dance music should sound. KLF is another group that did a lot. Apart from obviously being one of the founders of ambient music they influenced the acid scene on a massive scale with "What Time Is Love". And of top of that I would say they are pretty much responsible for eurotrance. Without KLF there simply would not have been any technotronic and snap, for better or for worse. Small mention when it comes to psytrance should go to the new beat producers in the end of the 80s. For example Lords of acid, miss nikky traxx & mac sample. And of course the track that started the whole new beat scene and probably did more to define goa morning music than any other single track...the pitched down remix of A Split Second and Flesh.

People who critizise finnish music normally call it silly, all over the place, too wierd, too much happening or bad production. I can understand all of those reservations. But to say it's boring, x-dream like or no melodies stilll makes me wonder if you never heard the music or if you just have a twisted vocabulary.

Like I said, to call Texas Faggot monotonous make me think you don't have ears or don't know what the word means. Thats my opinion....finnish music has very varied arrangements, somtimes to much for me even. Sure you can have your opinion, but when it as silly as saying there is no variation in finnish music you have to be prepared to be ridiculed. It's like if I would seriously argue that in my opinion Britney Spears make too heavy, dark and psychedelic music. I have the right to think that if I like to of course.....but I might look dumb to a lot of people if that was my view.

Midilitto and O-men is sure finns. Midilitto is "the MIDI union (as in workers union)" in finnish. O-men is Pepe from Squaremeat and someone else what I recall And cinos....finnish music has no variation???? Either you do not have ears or cannot grasp the english language. I know people who complain that it's too much happening in finnish music and think it's all over the place....but to call it "monotonus" is just wrong. Thats it..I don't care about your definition of the word and how you percive things...to call it monotonous is ridicolous.

Ohh yeah...Ocelot and vector selector have some very nice stuff. Not all that dark judging from the tracks I heared, but very psychedelic indeed. And djgreen...well...like I said...the taste is like the ass. I only heared a few tracks, maybe 10 all together, and thats what I judge by. Please reccommend some more orgininal tracks than the ones on Ctrl-Alt and I'll check them out. I do think Klusters latest album was quite nice and original sounding. And I normally don't like his stuff at a first listen, but it usually surprise me when I hear it on a PA.

I burn the files directly from the original wav master files, so the quality will be pristine. The CDR's is carefully selected for maximum quality (MPO diamond is the brand I currently use) and your copy is scanned to guarantee a low error rate. The covers and on body prints (no "press it" labels, but jetink on printable CDR) for the custom CD's vary i bit in resolution, and the paper I have right now is not really great looking unfortunally. I have to find some nice glossy paper before I can say they look pristine as well. But they look fine I would say...and come with clear tray jewelcases.

It's like this nowadays in many contries in Europe, including France where this site is hosted, that the site owners can get in trouble if you do trading in the forum. The Bushman will hunt down and punish those responsible if he find out that this becomes a centre for trading. So it's not only the morals of the owner or visitors coming in to play, trading have to be kept out of the forum have to be kept out from the forum to keep the owners safe from the Bushman. But try Google and you might find what you search for.

Small update to www.resonantearth.com but I guess there is a few people here that don't want to miss out on this one. We have the pleasure to feature a new track...Derango - The Seed If you are not familiar with Derango already you are probably not in to intense psychedelic night music, and if you already are familiar with their sounds you would not still be reading this and would have clicked on the link by now

Well...as we say in Sweden... The taste is like the ass.....split. I love their rough production and find a lot of music too polished. And to be honest I haven't had acid for about 10 years time...so I'm not sure it would help you to appreciate their music neccessarily. The quality of their tracks can be quite varying...but it sounds a lot more alive compared to most other artists. For example GOW, Axax or Wizack Twizack mentioned in this thread sounds too typical, polished and formularic for me. After a couple of seasons in Goa hearing that same style party after party for hours on end I have no possibility to appreciate it anymore. To mention a few non shlab artists that I do like... Ghreg On Earth, Mubali, Xenomorph, Derango & Noble Savage.

You think you get away with a quick apology like that? First you have to sit in the shame corner for one hour, then you come back and write the following 100 times (no copy-paste...you have to type it by hand): "I promise to start drinking acid for breakfast every morning to get appreciation for proper music" Then you might ask for forgiveness.

Lastbus Madrus must be around 2-3 years old now surely? I would also like to hear some new stuff from him if there is some...I don't think I heared the Wooden Child...I'll have to check it out. Hmmm...yes he also have a beard...thats about it

A track says more than a thousand words....so for your convenience some dark recommendations from the vaults of resonantearth Datakult - Punisher Ghreg On Earth - Tellurian Halo Mubali - Relentless Steptime - Grimner Noble Savage - Lux Natura Krankov - Flippy Trippy Hippy And to complete the impression of making a promotional post...heres one of mine on the darker end of the spectrum Spindrift - Defiant

I think Psykovsky is great as well, the very best of russian psy. Fungus Funk did some good tracks, but it was a while ago I heared something exceptional from him, and parasense tend to be quite boring IMO. When it comes to dark music the states is very prominent now. Ghreg On Earth is my aboslute fav producer of dark night music. Penta and Mubali is other seriously rocking artists from over there. I guess they have more and better quality acid there or something, because they stuff coming out of SF area is seriously psychedelic. Sweden has of course some of the best dark music as well, but I guess you are already well familiar with Derango, Ka-Sol etc.