Spindrift

Ok...mikseri and cytopia publish music online....I don't know what to call them but I think I understand what you mean. Magnatune seem to be a label, at least thats what they call themself. I hate to call resonantearth a label as well....it's such a crap word "label"...but I don't know what to call it otherwise. Any suggestions? And can you tell any proper psy netlabels instead of just being a smartass

You are welcome to send me some demos and I will check them out and tell you what I think about them... www.yousendit.com is convenient for that. Other alternatives I know about that do sell tracks online and sign artists directly: http://www.magnatune.com (don't know much about them and how restrictive they are in their selection) http://www.cytopia.org (seem to accept any trance...sort of a mp3.com for trance) Then you have http://www.mikseri.net which don't sell the tracks but have a nice service it seems. I'd like to know myself if anyone knows more similar sites.

Just give us your money and shut up idiots...OK? LOL...nice spirit. Maybe if most the phonecalls is angry customers there is problems to address rather than stop answering the phone??

From what I know it don't seem to be the norm that you get all in advance, but with the amounts involved I totally agree with that it should really be the case. Since a release rarely sell more than around 2000 copies it would be very generous to give $5000 in advance though, since that would be more than double compared to the normal percentage you get per sold copy. In this scene it's not so big chance to make a massive hit or get plenty of re-releases, but thats something for the artists to consider normally. To sell creative work on a fixed rate is normally considered rippoff otherwise. And I'm quite sure that also your contracts does oblige you to give more than the advance if the sales exceed expectations. So technically it's not a fixed price, although it might turn out to be in practice. When you use expressions like "most of the artists today" I must say that you only seem to include a very small part of the artists in the scene. I know a lot of artists, but it's very few of them that can expect decent advances. In every scene there is a big number of struggling ones on every sucessful one, and trance is no exception. For sure the biggest acts will be in a position to get labels to bid over eachother and get advances that sometimes exceed the sales. But "most of the artists" very rarely get advances, and if they do it's for sure not close to $5000 for an album or $500 for a track. About the compilation...it was actually a double CD that was sold at around normal price, so hence a lot less than you would have expected otherwise per copy.

@DETOX Sure you might get an advance on the royalties. It's usually only the case with bigger labels and artists. But if you get it before or after the release is not really the issue here, but rather the final amount received. It seems quite obvious from this case that she did not get a promise of an advance, so she is disspointed about how much the royalties amount to. When you say "570 dollars for an album is a joke and i cannot think of any serious artist that will sign an album for this ammount of money" it sounds like you do sign for a fixed amount. For sure the top artists in this scene would probably demand more than $570 in advance, but you don't sign an album for a fixed amount because you get an advance but still for a percentage of the sales. I don't know about this scene, but in the mainstream music industry it happens that you do have to pay back from your advance if the sales is not enough to cover for it. I cannot agree at all with that the amount you receive correlates to the amount you invest. There is a lot of sucessful artists in this scene that does not have expensive studios, and there is many with expensive studios that will never get back what they invested. What decides how much you receive is mainly dependent on if you have a talent for producing commercially viable material. And...I didn't miss a zero...that was in the mid 90's though, when trance was trendy in Europe. It was a mainstream label making a Goa compliation. I got no advance and the track paid about $700 that I shared with my partner.

It's for sure not a joke. It's facts from mine and others experience. Like I said though $570 is very little, but not uncommon and I had worse payments than that. Either the sales or the contract was bad or she did indeed get screwed and agitato is not accounting for all the sales. For example $1 per sold copy is a good deal it seems...if the label don't manage to promote the release well enough or the distributor don't have capacity or don't belive in the release it can happen that you sell about 700 copies. With an average deal that will not end up much more than $570. Some labels also have a deal where you get 50% of the profit. Say the label printed 2000 and only sold 1000, then it's not much profit left to split. She should demand to see the statements from the distributor on how many copies the release actually sold and have a look at her contract and work out if the figures is correct. It would not surprise me if they are, and then she have to find a better label, or like she was considering, release the music as free downloads and forget about getting paid for her studio time and maybe hope to make it up on gigs instead.

I never ever seen a contract with a fixed amount. It's usually royalties based on the sales. I'm surprised to hear that some labels work on fixed amounts. $570 for an album is very little for releasing an album ideed, but many releases nowadays have problem selling even 1000 copies, and then it's not much more than that you can expect. Also $500 per track on a compilation is not a minimum in my experience. I only once had more than $500 for a track...and that comp sold more than 15 000 copies which is extremly rare nowadays. It for sure sucks and the label should obviously been more clear in their accounting and communication, but if she expected around $5000 then I'm not surprised she got dissappointed.

Basically you can only control the pitch, ie the base note, when DJing. So if two tracks have incompatible scales there is nothing you can do about it. If you use a very precise parametric you could like ukiro suggests alleviate the clash a bit sometimes. If the scales is clashing in more than one note or octave that quickly would become quite impossible as well though. If you have very melodic material it might not be such a good idea to beatmatch, unless you keep track of what scale each track is in and know what scales will sound ok together. In reality though I must say it's very rare that i find harmonic dissonance to be much of a problem when I listen to other DJs, so i don't give it too much attention myself. Most of the time it sounds fine, and if i hear a slight dissonance i will try to pitch up one track by one or a few semitones. If that don't work I choose another track or make a shorter mix to not make the melodies overlap.

I didn't get Logic Bomb really when I listened to it at home first time...but they for sure have a very deep and psychedelic morning sound that works very well in the party IMO, and a lot of artists making morning music was influenced by them for a few years. Although taste is taste I can't help feeling that someone who label them mediocre has never heard their music at the right time in a party. Like them or not, they sure had a different sound than other morning music at the time. And there is some very good country music for sure. I didn't get that EP was joking either. Maybe because he "jokes" so much in a similar fashion about full-on and darkpsy or maybe due to his constant abuse of smileys. To be frank it just seemed like typical immature bashing of whole genres when I read it. You know best what you meant EP...but maybe it's not coincidence that you get misunderstood and that it appears to you like there is so many members on a personal crusade against you. I'd say keep the ironic smileys for when you actually are ironic...that might help to avoid confusion. Sorry for adding to the disgression....to add to the topic instead... Did no-one mention Eat-Static? For sure very influential musicians. Also Graham Wood for the early TIP stuff is one of the top producers on my list. Ian Eon was mentioned, but I have to nag about Overlords a bit more. I know for a fact that a lot of the pioneering UK producers was heavily influenced by him since the Overlords days.

I can tell you that of the very miniscule sales my site resonantearth generates a very large proportion of it is downloads. But it can have to do more with the confusing design and that people don't understand they can order CD's as well But there is surely some interest I would say, especially when it comes to being able to download individual tracks. Feel free to PM me if you like any aid in setting up a download system and I'll be happy to share any code and solutions I have that might be of help to you.

I don't know which word you or I have a problem pronouncing. I can not tell the difference for sure, and I can not pronounce the difference, so for me it's not impossible the words is connected even IF there would be a very miniscule difference. We don't say "kiva" with an "s" before it. If you would translate "skiva" to sanskrit you would use the exact same sign as used when writing the name "Shiva". So if one way of writing the sanskrit "sh" sound would been like the Swedish "sk" it would be the exact same word? I don't think so, and thats not what I'm trying to say, but the association can be there regardless. Brahman does not mean good man in swedish either, thats "bra man". Sanskrit does not mean true writing, thats "Sann skrift". Still there is an association in the words that seems quite fitting, coincidence or not. Since there should have been a connection in the ancient past between the indian and scandinavian cultures it's not impossible that it's not a coincidence. Swedish is part of the "Indo-European" group of languages after all. But of course it's all speculation and association on my behalf, and I don't understand what you trying to point out with that "Shiva" and "skiva" is so vastly different. I was presenting my understanding of the symbolics behind the Devil and Shiva. To try to disprove that understanding by nitpicking about some inaudible differences in the pronounciation is irreleveant.. It cannot be disproven, because we are not talking about facts but association. I make the association beteen the name "Shiva" and the "månskiva and solskiva". You obviously don't, but that a sanskrit "sh" sound does not get translated as "sk" like we use sometimes in Sweden to descibe a "sh" sound is an absolutley pointless argumentation.

Sorry for not making catchy one liners to match your level of comprehension.

I'm talking about the way the word is pronounced. Say "mån skiva" and then "bom shiva" and you will notice that they sound identical. For sure they are not spelled the same, since sanskrit use a completly different alphabet. So the word "Shiva" does actually not exist since it's an attempt to recreate the sound of the name. Sometimes it's spelled Shiva, sometimes Siva and I have also seen Siba.

ooops...double post

According to the man himself there will only be totally fresh tracks on the album, except some remix maybe. Can't wait for that. Anyway...back to the topic. I saw EP claims that this topic entitled "Stay Away Devil worshippers" is actually only an attempt from him to get an artist to reply why they use the names they do. I can't recall naming any track myself with an evil or satanistic name, so I cannot really answer the question. The only trackname I can think of that is slightly evil is "Acid Hitler". That title was mostly an internal joke, and it sounds a bit funny I guess, but it ain't a good title really and no thought behind. I have used titles like "Grimner" (oden with his warrior mask) or "Defiant" on my darker tracks, but I could very well imagine using words like hell or devil as well since they are not negative forces in my view and I would not feel that I in any way would encourage people to kill babies because it come across like I promote devil worshipping. But there has been plenty of answers, both here and in isra. The one I think is most likely is that the artist wants to make clear that it's no fluffy morning trance. Most words like murder, terror, devil, evil, dark or nightmare will and have been used to clarify what style of music the track is. Sure there is too much trends in trance, both when it comes to naming and the music itself. But thats a different issue than the "devil worshipping" discussed here. Another reason could be that EP are infact right that there is many artists that worships the devil. Although I don't think thats the case, I don't see what the problem with that is. To be a devil worshipper seems a bit stupid to me since it's more representing a sort of anti-christian view rather than any kind of deep understanding. But from a fundamental teological perspective I guess I could be classified more of a devil worshipper than a christian. For me the devil can be interpited as "de wheel", ie the circle. In that sense he symbolises death and rebirth, just like Shiva in the hindu mythology (shiva incidentally means wheel in Swedish, or rather disc). So Siva and the Devil is for me about accepting and unifying the opposites into one. Also Jesus himself could from that perspective in a sense be seen as more of a devil worshipper than an orthodox christian. If you read the gospel of Thomas Jesus says: So my association of the Devil, Shiva or Oden as symbols is that they symbolise the unity behind everything. Without death no birth, without sorrow no joy. It's more about understanding the forces in action in our creation than about killing babies or harming other people. But sure, it also means that you understand that harm inflicted on yourself or other does not need to be bad, and fills a purpose in the balance of things. That insight can make you a more content and less fearful being, but usually does not mean you go around harming others for the sake of being evil. So if someone worships the devil it's not a problem. If people cut open pregnant mothers and eat the featus thats a problem, but it has to do with a sick mind and not what faith the person has. And it sure don't have anything to do with track titles in trance music. If you look in the news at least it seems more common with fanatically christian people that commit bizarre acts of violence due to their fear of what they percive as evil compared to the very rare cases of people who call themself satanists. At least in Sweden we had a few cases last few years of christians murdering. In one case even their own children because they where convinced they where obsessed with satan. Anyway, if you really want an answer to your question EP I'm sure there is some interviews with bands like the rolling stones or black sabbath where they explain why they choose the track titles they do. This discussion is almost 50 years old by now, and although it's really mostly the moral majority that still get upset if a track name contains the word hell I'm sure you still can find a lot of information that can help you understand why some musicians mention or even glorify the dark side and that the chances that someone is a murderer is not higher because they used "hell" in a track title.

Thanks for what...you think I feel so threatened by your kindergarden talk so I will shut up....LOL Anyway...feel welcome to point out where I called you gay or nazi. That exposure productions sound more fitting for a gay club music label is not something you should take as an insult, it's just my honest association about the name. Feel free to associate and tell me what spindrift means to you....I promise I will not threaten to get physical if you do. And although I'm quite convinced that nither you or EP actually is nazi sympathisers I do think that there is similarities in the way you express your opinion. Using phrases like "stay away", "no place in the scene" for things you don't understand sound very familiar from skinheads speaking about immigrants. And that you call Para Halu pathetic and claim that devilsmind have nothing to do in the scene is ok because they are not present in the discussion? I don't know about your moral, but I sure don't think it's any better to insult people behind their back than with them present. I guess this discussion have been quite symbolic of many wars start with the strife for good and getting rid of what some individuals perceive as bad. If you realise that you have to accept that creation is dependent on different forces, like god and devil, you become more accepting towards what you don't understand. If you claim to know what is good based on your personal perspective you will be inclined to fight what is not part of that good...ie bad. Thats how many wars and conflicts starts. If you look at religions where they also worship the dark forces like hinduism you usually find the people is more tolerant than in monoteistic religions like christians, jews and muslims. And DETOX makes the perfect example of this....if people question that what he percives as evil is bad he gets upset and would like to get violent. You should look inside yourself for the evil and try to understand and recognise it instead of projecting it on record covers.

Ohoowohhoowoohhh!!! Shame it wansn't on knock-out and you had to hand in the towel again...your'e such a bad sportsman. Anyway...sweet victory

Ohh yes...I though it was some good posts there. Really EP...just let people call their tracks what they want. You do seem like a ultra-cionservative moral majority type of character. And your response to the comment that you are getting to old sound taken right of the mouth from the moral majority: "This got nothing to do with age. But all to do with common sense and a sense of what's good for the scene and not." Really....lets all listen up to what EP think is "common sense of whats good for the scene" You obviously don't understand what the devil symbolises and is viewing it from a conservative christian conditioning, no matter how atheistic you say you are. Ok that someone who belives in a religion telling him that the devil is bad could be upset when people use him as a symbol, but if you don't belive in any of it why would it bother you? What are you afraid of? Do you fear that it will result in a lot of kids turning to satanism and sacificing babies inbetween the parties? Good for this scene is freedom of expression and creativity, not mr Thinnings rules about styles, tracknames, how to discuss drugs etc. I think you really should check the link I gave you and ask them if they have or you can start a subdivision in Denmark, because you do share a lot with that kind of people and I'm sure you find great friends in that organisation. Otherwise, hook up with some nazi organisation...they like to lay down rules on peoples behaviour and how they should express themself.

Shiva is symbolizing the same thing as the devil in effect, so thats just a variation of a theme

Ohh...really...please point that bit out to me. I did say "I must say EP that you obviously don't understand the scene, it's roots or the people involved in it." If you call that personal bashing you are very sensitive. EP is obviously very sensitive because his reaction to that was "I am not going to reply much to your long rant about that i dont understand anything." And since then the only contributions from EP has pretty much been the usual personal attacks. I don't care much for having opinion police trying to tell people how they should name their tracks, what symbolics they should use on the covers, how they can discuss drugs etc. If people dig devils in their samples, tracknames and covers it's none of my business. If people like IMO boring progg music or formularic full-on thats up to them. But when people start going on about what should according to the allowed in this scene or not it makes me upset. But if you want to sit here and have a psytrance version of moral majority, thats really up to you guys. You are free to try to opress expression as much as you like, but I never though that ultra-conservative moralists is perticularly fun company so I guess I'm out of place here.

And it's not arrogant and judgemental to call music satanistic because they have the word devil or hell in the tracktitle? And to then say that they should "go back to where they come from? I never said clubmusic IS gay, but there is for sure gay clubmusic....but I guess it's tosubtle difference for you. But I sure did not say "gay clubbers stay away and go back where you came from". You tell me where i said you should be, act and think like me. You and DETOX has been the only ones in this discussion who try to force your views down other peoples throats by using terms like "there is no place" and "stay away". You are the ones using the same rethoric as some nazis wnting to get rid of in your opinion unpure elements. I don't want only evil music, I like a mix of dark and evil, happy melodic and cool progressive. Read the quote again. You do seem to expect people to share your taste, and if they don't they are appearently closed minded. You said "So much for your selfproclamied open mind toward other genres." because I said I don't care much for the music you make or what DETOX release. Neither you or DETOX define a whole genre, and for me the music you guys make and deal in have no soul. I can't help thinking it's a bit pathetic with someone who start shouting that I am closed minded because I don't like his music or taste. I posted a link for you and DETOX to check in isratrance you might want to check to find likeminded people and feel better understood: http://www.faithandvalues.us/ Maybe they have a similar organisation in Greece or Denmark that you can hook up with and start a crusade against satanism in trance music. I'm sure they are dying to find new forms of expression to try to opress since the rock scene is not what it used to in the days of rolling stones and black sabbath.

You are really a joke dude. You make a topic entitled "stay away devil worshippers" where the content is that there is no place in the scene for a certain type of music, symbolics and track titles and that the people who make or release that type of music should get back to where they came from. And now you telling me that I am the one that think everyone should adher to my view of things. It amazes me that you don't see the contradiction. I'm saying that there is room for everyones opinion, taste and style. You are saying that there is not. I was about to ask detox the same, it was him who brought that up. You can call me arrogant when I open a post about how bad people who listen to progressive or full-on is. In this thread it's definatly you who showed off your arrogans, no matter how you wiggle by trying to make it into me being arrogant for pointing it out. There is good progressive and full-on for sure. But neither your music (apart from a couple of your early tracks) or exposure productions have any soul from what i heared and I stand by that. It's taste you know....I'm sure you think your music is great and DETOX think he selects super tracks...and you can keep doing what you do for all I care....best of luck to you. But it's not everybodys taste and if you think I'm closed minded for not sharing your taste...well go to a kindergarden and quarrel about taste there maybe you find some kids interested in discussions like that.

Devilsmind sounds more like the music I'm used to from Goa and the typical Goa DJ's like Gill or Teo, which although it's also a form of trance sounds very different than euro and club trance. Club trance sounds more like gay house than psychedelic dance music IMO. Both you and EP can think whatever you like about but mp3 or different genres. But when you start going on in terms of "there is no place" or "get back where they came from" I'm sorry for your arrogant minds. Just focus on selling your records if you think that people want to buy music on CD, and keep on relasing and making music without a soul. If other people release music that is evil or think that CD's is a crap format and you cannot accept and understand it doesn't mean there is no place in the scene for them, it's just no place in your minds, which is a different thing in reality.

DETOX, I think you should change the name of your lable to hexsposure productions. IMO "exposure productions" sounds like you would be releasing club music and have very little to do with trance from what I can see. As I mentioned before devilsmind is a non-profit label with their proceeds going to charity. It's peace loving vegans that run it from what I understand. Understanding the dark forces don't make you more evil neccessarily, but rather the opposite many times. If you would be aware of how the dark forces really manifest themself I doubt you would think it's great with coca-cola sponsoring parties and thinking that labels and parties have to be run as commercial operation. There is always different views in a scene, and I find Para Halus cover more intresting and meaningful than any of the covers I seen on your releases to be honest, and that goes for the music devilsmind release as well. But I don't think I should go posting in forums saying I think exposure productions should return to the club scene where they belong. There is people who like what you do, and as far as I am concerned they can keep doing that even if I don't understand it. There is enough place in trance for both you and devilsmind, but I'm not sure I like it to be much room for the type of ignorance and prejudgemental attitude you and EP expressed in this topic. If it ain't your thing, fine. But get down from your high horses and stop behaving like you own the scene and think you can tell what styles of music should excist or not.

I can't understand it either. It's symbolising a balance between the two fundamental forces in the universe and if you consider it "evil", "pathetic" or "satanistic" then you should join the moral majority or something. I'm very curious on how anyone can figure that para halu is "advertising (yes advertising) the devil" with that cover. Read up about psychedelic culture, for example "The Doors of Perception and Heaven and Hell " by Aldous Huxley, or even better have experience for yourself. You might be able to understand why there is predominant in psychedelic culture with a symbolics featuring a mixture of dark and light forces.