Nanosotfr

Hi Everyone, I checked a bit your forum and ran into it mostly searching for accuracy about certain Psychedelic Trance styles. I’m also passionate about electronic music in general (other stuff too but I’m a 95% electronic music lover anyway ) and also love to be as accurate as possible when dealing with music genres and styles. I’m not into the psychosis and fight with others about any conception of music styles but for my own pleasure I really like to seek for accuracy and love to classify my music collection and understand all of the shape and feel of (electronic) music. I still see electronic music or music in general as a big evolutive canvas. Anyway that’s just frequencies and sounds which are blending together perpetually. I got the link to a post on discogs looking for some accuracy about Twilight Psy Trance. I started listening to electronic music twenty years ago, with Trance, Psy Trance, Makina, Happy Hardcore, Gabber, Dance, Euro Dance, Californian Punk Rock for the main part (I was and still am very eclectic) . At the time I was very young and for most of them I did not even know what type of electronic music it was. Then, I guess as many people here, I spent so much time on the Ishkur guide back then and it was a basis for how I categorize music at the time. I think I can say that I know by heart every samples on this website and still love how it was designed. Very clear and entertaining. Though, after years, many researches and more experience, I found it sometimes weird on some points but I guess this one wasn’t totally objective. But I can still say that I think most of it was close to accuracy for lots of music styles. The third version seems to go in the same direction. I also checked the website of Daniel Lesden about Psy Trance and find it also very clear and concise. And also your guide that I found few years ago on the Internet and just find out a few days ago that it was from your website. I find it very good too even if sometimes I could see things a bit differently but that could be a further discussion. But now I’m still questioning myself about mostly a certain type of Psy Trance. And can’t really find out the solution. Maybe that’s because this style is still like a hybrid version of others styles but is not precisely defined. ———————————————————————— For a better understanding here’s some information about how it started. I would say that this questioning started around 2012, and the listening of music from Ektoplasm and also the discovery of Ajja’s album Tulpa. For instance Isochronic and Nomad 25 were the style I loved to play in parties and on Ektoplasm it was labelled as Twilight and Full On. I find it also close to the sound of Ajja with tunes like Bebopper which was at the time for me a fresh sound I liked so much. I think we can say that Ajja’s sound was kind of the beginning of UK Psy Trance/Uptempo Psy Trance back then or maybe this new sound I can’t really classify? 2012 - Isochronic - Section 6 EP findable on Ektoplasm. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05N59bUp2kE To me it seems to be a kind of evolution of the twilight sound but it seems like the emphasis is more on the bassline and less the agressive /harsh synth lead sounds that was the signature of Twilight and Night Full On. Still, I’m still hesitating on the question of a Twilight and Night Full On styles separated or not. 2012 - Isochronic - Fat Data 2012 - Ajja - Tulpa Bazinga - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VhokOvIUKQ Isochronic seems to go a bit further than Ajja’s on his album but I can see the similarities. I can’t really say that it matches what is the Uptempo/UK sound from today so…. To me, the translation of what I hear, not with any definitions of the word, but for what I know from experience was : something with a very present and driving bassline, speed and some dark and forest FX elements/sounds. Again more emphasis on the rolling and driving bassline. Was it what the Twilight sound was in 2012? But when I compared with what I know it seems that the Twilight or Night Full On sound and SA Twilight sound were a bit different. I think maybe they started to remove the too much of Full On melodies and screaming/tearing feel synth leads to concentrate of the grooviness and driving basslines. On certain tracks I can still feel the Night Full On elements but was it still an evolution of Night Full On/ Twilight or something that could be a different style going to the Dark side (Dark Psy Trance) but staying before the limits of Dark. Something between Night Full On/Twilight and Dark Psy Trance or is it just somehow only considered as Darkpsy? But to me honestly I can’t really accept that as a Darkpsy track. I also saw this comment in 2015 for this release (Isochronic) saying « This is what Twilight SHOULD sound like…. …. Golden find « So a doubt could be there anyway with what is exactly the definition of Twilight? Here a few examples : 2012 - Beardy Weardy - Eggman https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRlzRbLEdgE 2014 - Drip Drop - Drip Drop (Album) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_CZkxr5Dik 2012 - Mole - Chemical Key https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5iDYz0P0DY I could add that I found an old release from R.A.M in the album Efficient Chips : Coming back in 2004 that to me looks like a prototype of this kind of music. I mean, even if this one seems to be darker at least for the rhythmic section. I hear a difference (not everywhere in the track) when again the Night Full On elements are quieter and a track more focused on the bassline grooviness. So closer to what the sound is in 2012. 2004 - RAM - Coming Back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bzNzOK7Ns8 The question wasn’t answered for years and I assumed that it was the Twilight sound from 2010/2012 but the doubt was still a bit there. Was I playing Night Full On, Twilight, Dark Psy Trance, Forest? I’m still hesitating. Today the question still rise with the addition of UK Psy Trance, Uptempo Psy Trance as it was labelled by Lesden on his website or heard for a few years now. I think I saw some of you saying that it could be Uk Psy Trance. So the first question is : Is Uptempo Psy Trance and UK Psy Trance the same thing? Because to me I would like to think that Uptempo Psy Trance fits really well with this fast driving Psy Trance with big leads from artists like Mad Tribe, Djantrix, Inner Lux, Alienatic to name a few. So Lesden definition could be accurate. And second question, the same from the start, can we define this style as Uptempo/UK Psy Trance? I also read Ormion talking about an unnamed style referred as Doof Style by him that could match what I am talking about. Example from today, I mean more recent tracks : (I assume and of course can hear the different elements from other styles but still I could add those in the same style evolution threw the years) 2015 - Dragonbboyz - Psychedelic Sweets https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Prwk5QPtFc 2017 - Critter & Oksha - Digital Birds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrH0w4YgvoQ 2020 - Shenanigan - Wonky Business https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Zc2IPNcAFw 2020 - Gabb - Ayahuasca Therapy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6FL7itAQxE I give this one but clearly the difference is there but wanted to add an example of maybe a new direction with now the fusion of UK Psy from today with Twilight. 2022 - Nomad Alien - Get a new rule (Again are we at the frontier of Twilight/Dark/Forest and UK Psy Trance/Uptempo Psy Trance ?) Because this one seems to be only UK Psy but on the other hand there’s this dark feeling and sounds lurking in the track. ———————————————— I know that’s also difficult to make boundaries as for some of the tracks we can obviously feel the more or less Dark elements or elements from other styles. It’s exactly what music is. A big blending of elements disappearing and coming back again with variations. But still I can feel the evolution of this 2012 sound. Maybe earlier, I could search for earlier work but for now to me the marker was Ajja’s Tulpa album in 2012 even with the track from R.A.M. and the similarities with that style. Anyway I think the best thing to do would be to say for instance this is 70% Psy Trance,18% Forest, 10% Techno, 2% whatever and then we could define what is a style or a genre. But yes first we need to get common boundaries (sound ? Instruments? Frequencies? Tones? etc… and then will we be better at it than a computer? Maybe one day an IA could give the « ingredients » its « composition », of a track like we are able to define the composition of any material or food and we’ll see the « real » composition of music But that’s for now not how it works. I guess AIs has more important things to do now :D:D Thanks for reading and thanks for your help Nano