Rotwang

That describes me pretty accurately; 1200 Mics was the first psytrance I heard, IM the second. FWIW I thought they were both great when I first heard them, but whereas I've come to think of 1200 Mics as being pretty mediocre and uninspired, the early IM stuff still sounds as good to as it always did, and also sounds worlds apart from three of the four inspirations you listed (I'm not familiar with the work of Tandu).

It's just a bit of fun, guys, not the Council of Nicea. If you can think of ten or fewer albums that stand out for you then write them down.

I know, and I'm not having a go at you for your post, but it nonetheless constituted "bringing it up" (notice that several other posts on the subject, from both sides of the argument, followed from yours). Sure, I didn't mean to give the impression that you did. Again, I did not do so as a direct reaction to your post. I did so because it's relevant to the thread as a whole - note in particular that Basilisk was talking about the stereotype from which darkpsy suffers, and the devil/horror thing is a large part of that stereotype.

Visine: are any of your complaints (which I don't intend to address point-by-point, since it's evident from the other thread that that would do no good) actually relevant to my status as a moderator? In particular, do you feel that I took some mod action that I shouldn't have taken? Or that I didn't take some mod action that I should have? Or that being a mod somehow excludes me from the same posting rights as other members? Or is your whole post just another attempt to change the subject instead of addressing the actual points I've made or answering the actual questions I've asked you?

You can't, only mods or admins can do so. I can't see why you think it's necessary, though - the debate is perfectly amicable. Sorry, but since other people seem happy discussing the subject in this thread I'm not going to close it right now (you can of course edit your own posts if you're unhappy about something you wrote).

It's worth bearing in mind that Ishkur's guide was written a long time ago and hasn't been updated; terminology may have changed. Don't know about the other source.

Huh? Neither of the debates I linked were two years old. Both were on the first page of General. One was started on the third of May this year, the other was started on the 9th.

I know, and I wasn't disagreeing. Just trying to steer the thread back on-topic. In this thread, Visine was the first person to mention devils, and also the first person to mention horror (post 23). The first person to mention those two things in the "How was dark-psy born?" thread was you (posts 11 and 29). I haven't noticed "us guys" keep bringing it up, but I welcome any counterexamples you may have.

Sure. But even among the hypothetical 95% of darkpsy that sucks, it's still the case that the large majority does not have devil/horror themes, and is not random in any sense that doesn't apply just as much to other psytrance subgenres. That's the problem: I don't mind if people don't like darkpsy, but I do mind if they continue to tarnish the genre with stereotypes that have no basis in reality.

I know what glitches are. I'm just not enough of an Aphex fan to know what you specifically meant by "the aphex glitch". Bear in mind that I thought (from the fact that you were replying to Time_Trap) that you were referring to something random in his music, hence my confusion. I'm pretty sure that Exotic wasn't suggesting otherwise.

Please note that I stated more than once (including in the material you quoted) that I was specifically talking about how the terms are used on Psynews.

Quite right, my mistake.

No doubt.

How is this a problem? Would you rather tell people that you listen to dance music and have them assume you like Tiësto and Deadmau5, or tell them you listen to Goa and have them correctly conclude that they don't know any of the music you listen to? That's a nice idea, but I think in practice modern EDM genres evolve too quickly for that to stay accurate. E.g. do darkpsy acts sound like Parasense? They did five years ago, now they don't. It's much easier to say that I like darkpsy than to say that I like music that sounds like Parasense or Highcosmos or Derango or Psykovsky or...

According to this, The reason we use the term "Goa trance" to differentiate between the psychedelic trance that people were making in 1997 and the various forms of psychedelic trance (other than new-school Goa) is that most psynewsers feel that the music is sufficiently different to warrant a separate designation.

No, I don't see that any of the mods said that Goa Trance came after psytrance. Nothing wrong with that, it's just that you seem to mention it an awful lot. Anyway, here, like most places on the internet, the sort of credibility you're talking about counts for very little. It doesn't bother me, I just found it funny that you did it twice in one post and decided to make a cheap joke about it. I'm sorry if you took it seriously. Apparently the usage among psynews members is less unanimous than I thought (though I did explicitly say that the terminology is not universally agreed upon). Note that neither Sideffect... nor travbrad1001 are mods, though.

I don't, that's why I asked. OK, thanks. Nectarios: perhaps I misunderstood the point of your reply to Time_Trap, but I'm not hearing anything random about the sounds that feature in the track Elysium posted - it all sounds like it was quite meticulously programmed (the bouncing ball sounds, for example, are timed using the partial sums of a geometric series). Actually, upon rereading your earlier post I suppose that that was the whole point you were trying to make. But then I'm not sure what the relevance to Time_Trap's post was, since presumably he wasn't referring to stuff like that when he wrote that Aphex Twin can be random at times.

The I of it

Can you give me an example of a track that features it prominently, so I know what you mean?

Your life is even more tragic than mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJpP7ZId-mc

WHAT ABOUT THE FORESTS?

Minor point of order: I don't think Afgin makes Goa trance any more, does he? Either way, I agree with you that 15 albums a year sounds like an underestimate.

I've read that Aphex twin made sounds by "record scratching" with sandpaper instead of vinyl. If that's true then the resulting sound has at least as much claim to being random as any sound made with a deterministic PRNG. I'm not agreeing with Time_Trap that Aphex is more random than darkpsy (many of whose artists presumably do use PRNGs to make some of their timbres), just pointing out that glitch plug ins aren't the only way to make something random.

Really? I had no idea. You should mention this in more of your posts. Although the terminology is not universally agreed upon, here on Psynews people generally use the term "Goa trance" and "psytrance" to mean different things - specifically, "Goa trance" refers to the subgenre of psytrance which distinguishes acts like Pleiadians and Filteria from those belonging to the other subgenres. As to whether this kind of music deserves to be associated with Goa, maybe it doesn't. But the fact is that it's useful to be able to refer to stuff that sounds more like Pleiadians than 1200 Mics or Parasense or Ace Ventura or Texas Faggott using a term that's shorter than "stuff that sounds more like Pleiadians than 1200 Mics or Parasense or Ace Ventura or Texas Faggott", and if you use the term "Goa trance" for that purpose then everyone on Psynews will know what you mean. Really? I had no [etc.]