exotic Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Gahh I can't believe I read this. The most nonsense post of all time. Believe me, I participate in 4 forums in 3 languages. I never, EVER, read an analysis so (speechless) as Exotic's. Sorry dark psy folks are inherently idiotic and dont make sense most of the time. Time to listen to some scatterbrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exotic Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 @Exotic, Rotwang, Ormion... Now you make me believe. A I wrote some posts ago, I was neutra about dark psyl. Now I see the truth, and I am neutral no more: you are all psychotics. Being psychotic it makes sense you listen to Dark Psy. This whole stupid thread convinced me that only lunatics listen, and enjoy, dark psy. :lol: Rotwang your turn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 That you only listen to Goa or got interested in the genre through Goa would be a problem in two ways : 1) Most of the Goa trance purists i have interacted with IRL feel the entire psychedelic movement was started by Goa trance and somehow feel darkpsy is an evil extension of the genre , meant for people who are inherently frustrated with life , have quarter life angst and cannot enjoy the Goa vibe for what it is. This is my opinion or my perception through my interaction with Goa trance people over the years 2) Goa trance people only listen to Goa and as a result have become narrow-minded to the extent that they feel no other genre of music can come close to feelings of extacy, oneness and joy it can bring. Since darkpsy sounds remote , haunting and eerie unlike all the adjectives I have used to describe Goa it would only be natural for a Goa trance fan to feel about a cousin who branched out and became evil and is now spreading a bad name for the entire psychedelic society , but this is what is slightly narrow-minded according to the people who have branched out to other sub-genres of psychedelic (full on progressive and darkpsy to name a few) primarily due to the fact Goa trance lost its sheen and not too much of goa was being produced like between 1993-2000 .ie goa trance was dead and people wanted to move to a different style. I also feel some of you Goa trance folks are still stuck in a time warp and have refused to move with the times , but it is totally your choice which depends on taste and whether you are having more of a blast stuck where you are. Although you have the resurgence of goa through what is touted as neo-goa and some of that stuff is really good it can never really bring back that golden era . Its all about keeping an open mind actually. What i find really surprising is how 50% of the fans moved on to some genre or the other while some did not jump onto the bandwagon and got left behind as a result due to which they are bitter and crib about how Goa was and is the best and all this darkpsy just gave the entire scene a bad name. Correct me if I am wrong :o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exotic Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Besides a expression im sure you have some words to describe what you are feeling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 @Exotic, Rotwang, Ormion... Now you make me believe. A I wrote some posts ago, I was neutra about dark psyl. Now I see the truth, and I am neutral no more: you are all psychotics. Being psychotic it makes sense you listen to Dark Psy. This whole stupid thread convinced me that only lunatics listen, and enjoy, dark psy. I'm sorry if you think that Ormion's, Exotic's and my arguments are stupid. In retrospect I can see that only a psychotic such as I would have attempted to refute your statement that "the vast majority [of darkpsy] is related to diseases, mental conditions, bad health, death, crimes, confusion, sadness" by posting the first 10 darkpsy albums I could find and pointing out how many of them were actually related to those things. And only an idiot like Ormion would have responded to the claim that randomness is a subjective judgement by actually bothering to post a dictionary definition of "random" to support his case. From now on I will attempt to instead use the reasonable, intelligent debating style that the darkpsy haters have shown in this thread - perhaps I'll respond to any further questions you may have with some stock images of babies crying, for example. Would that be better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Besides a expression im sure you have some words to describe what you are feeling? Dude, I'm at loss for words as to how to reply to your post. Don't even know where to start or what to say. For some reason the first thing that came to my mind was a line from the text of the release notes of that CD I referenced on Saikosounds in this link: http://www.saikosounds.com/english/display_release.asp?id=7533 The line says the following: "This is not music for hippie fucks who need to edit out swear words from their sets to keep from upsetting their clan of falsely enlightened psychedelic hipster fans." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Visine, do you understand that one example doesn't actually prove anything about an entire genre? And that if it did then the examples I posted earlier would have demonstrated that old-school Goa is as much about horror as darkpsy is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Visine, do you understand that one example doesn't actually prove anything about an entire genre? And that if it did then the examples I posted earlier would have demonstrated that old-school Goa is as much about horror as darkpsy is? Read my post. I did not try to prove anything. He asked me to describe how I felt. The image of that promo text just came to mind for some reason.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Read my post. I did not try to prove anything. He asked me to describe how I felt. The image of that promo text just came to mind for some reason.... Which didn't answer his question. So what was the point, exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Which didn't answer his question. So what was the point, exactly? This post: That you only listen to Goa or got interested in the genre through Goa would be a problem in two ways : 1) Most of the Goa trance purists i have interacted with IRL feel the entire psychedelic movement was started by Goa trance and somehow feel darkpsy is an evil extension of the genre , meant for people who are inherently frustrated with life , have quarter life angst and cannot enjoy the Goa vibe for what it is. This is my opinion or my perception through my interaction with Goa trance people over the years 2) Goa trance people only listen to Goa and as a result have become narrow-minded to the extent that they feel no other genre of music can come close to feelings of extacy, oneness and joy it can bring. Since darkpsy sounds remote , haunting and eerie unlike all the adjectives I have used to describe Goa it would only be natural for a Goa trance fan to feel about a cousin who branched out and became evil and is now spreading a bad name for the entire psychedelic society , but this is what is slightly narrow-minded according to the people who have branched out to other sub-genres of psychedelic (full on progressive and darkpsy to name a few) primarily due to the fact Goa trance lost its sheen and not too much of goa was being produced like between 1993-2000 .ie goa trance was dead and people wanted to move to a different style. I also feel some of you Goa trance folks are still stuck in a time warp and have refused to move with the times , but it is totally your choice which depends on taste and whether you are having more of a blast stuck where you are. Although you have the resurgence of goa through what is touted as neo-goa and some of that stuff is really good it can never really bring back that golden era . Its all about keeping an open mind actually. What i find really surprising is how 50% of the fans moved on to some genre or the other while some did not jump onto the bandwagon and got left behind as a result due to which they are bitter and crib about how Goa was and is the best and all this darkpsy just gave the entire scene a bad name. Correct me if I am wrong ...........along with your arrogant attitude, calling other people "fucks" has reminded me of this CD press release line: "This is not music for hippie fucks who need to edit out swear words from their sets to keep from upsetting their clan of falsely enlightened psychedelic hipster fans." http://www.saikosounds.com/english/display_release.asp?id=7533 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 This post: ...........along with your arrogant attitude, calling other people "fucks" has reminded me of this CD press release line: "This is not music for hippie fucks who need to edit out swear words from their sets to keep from upsetting their clan of falsely enlightened psychedelic hipster fans." http://www.saikosounds.com/english/display_release.asp?id=7533 Which was, and still is, a complete non-response to his post. In fact, he didn't ask you "to describe how [you] felt". He asked you to correct him if he was wrong. Was he? Presumably not or you could explain why, instead of telling him that his post reminded you of something that had essentially nothing in common with it. Why did Exotic's post remind you of that line anyway? Was it the way that a different post by a different poster also used the word "fucks"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Matta Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I actually find a good amount of truth (subjective ("truthfulness")) in exotic's post. This whole argument is subjective. For one, darkpsy is angstful, for sure. However, it's only the newest way that psy/goa music has been angstful all along. This music as a genre is for the most part very angry (in the broadest sense ("angst")) and reflects the inner torments of its creators. Otherwise, they'd be making more peaceful music that wasn't so fast and furious. The spiritual stuff involved (the samples and art, etc.) is only hinting at a mindset that the creators and listeners would rather have, except aggression, in this case, wins. I'm guilty too. I need the outlet. When this music doesn't suffice, I listen to something even harder. But yeah, I agree that darkpsy, even though I don't enjoy it, is certainly not random. Very creative stuff, to the point that I have a hard time fathoming the work involved to make it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exotic Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 This post: ...........along with your arrogant attitude, calling other people "fucks" has reminded me of this CD press release line: "This is not music for hippie fucks who need to edit out swear words from their sets to keep from upsetting their clan of falsely enlightened psychedelic hipster fans." http://www.saikosounds.com/english/display_release.asp?id=7533 I dont see anywhere i used the word "fucks" and even if i did , i wouldnt have edited it going by that line you have quoted now twice which is utter non-sense anyway and is a very marginal view of some people who seem to be very fringe in the darkpsy community. Which was, and still is, a complete non-response to his post. In fact, he didn't ask you "to describe how [you] felt". He asked you to correct him if he was wrong. Exactly. I would like to see a better argument , Visine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormion Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 @Exotic, Rotwang, Ormion... Now you make me believe. A I wrote some posts ago, I was neutra about dark psyl. Now I see the truth, and I am neutral no more: you are all psychotics. Being psychotic it makes sense you listen to Dark Psy. This whole stupid thread convinced me that only lunatics listen, and enjoy, dark psy. Ok let get this traight. I'm in this forum since 2002 and I've seen countless fights about psy genres. I've seen the world vs full on, the world vs progressive, the world vs psybient etc. Today though these fights have been decreased, because finally people understood that there's no point after all. But darkpsy haters keep attacking the genre all the time using 1) invalid arguments and 2) in the wrong threads. I'll give an example: I hate progressive. I mean I really can't stand it. But I never-never-never posted in a progressive recommendations thread about how much it sucks. It's pointless! I also never used invalid arguments to judge it like: progressive ain't fast enough. Well duh! It's not supposed to be! If the thread is how do you feel about progressive I could answer, but randomly bitching about progressive in various threads is immature. But this keeps happening with darkpsy. All the time. Check out the how darkpsy was born thread. A simple question about darkpsy that ended up in another darkpsy hating. In conclusion darkpsy haters are the real psychotic. Even the fact that some of them believe that the only way to like darkpsy is to be a junkie, angry teen with black soul says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I think some of you guys should not take music that personal (individual) when it comes to analyzing others! Your current taste is no general measure and it will never be! For example: I for once, have been a huge music fan since I was 13 (started collecting). Many genres, sub genres have crossed my way in this long journey and it has been a great experience. It started with some punk, metal when I was 13, in 1998 Goatrance came along and so on and on, on, etc... Now I'm 28 I can honestly say. I listen to good music! Why? Because I invested, showed effort listening, analyzing etc... And after many years that music good music includes... Metal, includes black metal, epic metal, doom metal... Rock in general Dub, reggae, Ska, Ska-punk,... Goatrance, psychedelic trance, progressive trance... Techno, electro, acid, house... Jazz, blues... even classical music I'll stop, the list is longer. But I have never claimed that one genre is the best! With The result that it is impossible to blame that other genre's are not. I've noticed along my journey how many times people listen to a sub genre, they discover something new, and suddenly their older sub genre is not ok anymore? I don't get that. I still enjoy my first punk cd's, and I like some metal too once and a while although I like goatrance more. I can understand you get bored with some genres but I repeat "Your current taste is no general measure and it will never be!" It's a worldwide problem that people always feel the need, when they discover a certain religion, taste, ideology. They study it so much and they become so convinced that this choice is the best. They become irritated when someone criticizes their choice. And that's an easy way of thinking imo. I just have found pattern A, and pattern A it is. But discovering pattern A and still respecting pattern B and together with that realizing that pattern C also can exist is ten times harder. Don't forget, Music is a psychological instrument, a tool, that is created to serve YOU, not otherwise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sideffect... Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Indeed that is what I like most about goatrance parties. A dj in the corner doing his thing and the people dancing with each others. Not like techno parties I visited where everybody is staring @ Dave clarke who is on a podium 10m above ground. Then again, the bigger the crowd, the harder it is to avoid the second concept. People will always search for symbols, figures to look up to. To idolize and compare themselves. I never had that with music. I don't care if infected mushroom wears black or white underwear. Simple as that! But I don't judge those who do care. If that's their way of experiencing music. That's fine be my, as long as they respect mine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Psykosvky is not random, Aphex Twin can be at times. For the record, glitch plug ins which chop up and re-arrange audio snippets up for you, in real time, where not available when Aphex Twic was making his early stutter/glitch/edit work using hardware samplers and tedious slicing and midi triggering. Thus although Aphex Twin's work can sound random to you (which is fair enough, I am not going to get into the anal semantics), everything was programmed to sound as such, 100% "manualy"....instead of using glitch plug ins which "do the work for you"...again not saying psykovsky did not do such programming bu hand, note for note, trigger for trigger. Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 For the record, glitch plug ins which chop up and re-arrange audio snippets up for you, in real time, where not available when Aphex Twic was making his early stutter/glitch/edit work using hardware samplers and tedious slicing and midi triggering. I've read that Aphex twin made sounds by "record scratching" with sandpaper instead of vinyl. If that's true then the resulting sound has at least as much claim to being random as any sound made with a deterministic PRNG. I'm not agreeing with Time_Trap that Aphex is more random than darkpsy (many of whose artists presumably do use PRNGs to make some of their timbres), just pointing out that glitch plug ins aren't the only way to make something random. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sickdogs Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Often people get stuck staring at the jigsaw pieces rather than looking at the whole puzzle, thus, this is random. Same with life too I guess, I know I one for one am always confused haha. But that's also why Dark Psy is my favourite style, its challenging and intelligent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I've read that Aphex twin made sounds by "record scratching" with sandpaper instead of vinyl. If that's true then the resulting sound has at least as much claim to being random as any sound made with a deterministic PRNG. I'm not agreeing with Time_Trap that Aphex is more random than darkpsy (many of whose artists presumably do use PRNGs to make some of their timbres), just pointing out that glitch plug ins aren't the only way to make something random. I was reffering to the aphex glitch, the signature sound that richard d james came up with that inspired people so much later on. dunno if he actually was the first to do it by the way, but he was the main producer to push this sound. and yes glitch plug ins are not the only way to make random bits of audio come out from the computer by sinply clicking one button, but it is this characteristic attribute of darkpsy i am reffering to. once again, to avoid a long semantics argument, it is not the only one, but i've heard it used quite heavily, along with the FM patches. peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 Can you give me an example of a track that features it prominently, so I know what you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elysium Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nectarios Posted May 12, 2011 Share Posted May 12, 2011 I won't cause you know what I mean, I hope so anyway Peace out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotwang Posted May 12, 2011 Author Share Posted May 12, 2011 I won't cause you know what I mean, I hope so anyway I don't, that's why I asked. OK, thanks. Nectarios: perhaps I misunderstood the point of your reply to Time_Trap, but I'm not hearing anything random about the sounds that feature in the track Elysium posted - it all sounds like it was quite meticulously programmed (the bouncing ball sounds, for example, are timed using the partial sums of a geometric series). Actually, upon rereading your earlier post I suppose that that was the whole point you were trying to make. But then I'm not sure what the relevance to Time_Trap's post was, since presumably he wasn't referring to stuff like that when he wrote that Aphex Twin can be random at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Which was, and still is, a complete non-response to his post. In fact, he didn't ask you "to describe how [you] felt". Yes he did right here: Besides a expression im sure you have some words to describe what you are feeling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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