Charlie Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I don't mean to sound negative, but what's the fascination with mixes? I've never understood why they're so popular, it's just tracks that are alreay out there but mixed together. For that reason I don't have much respect for DJ's either, they don't create the music, they're not artists, yet people go crazy over them. Why? It's weird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinos Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I don't mean to sound negative, but what's the fascination with mixes? I've never understood why they're so popular, it's just tracks that are alreay out there but mixed together. For that reason I don't have much respect for DJ's either, they don't create the music, they're not artists, yet people go crazy over them. Why? It's weird. 394641[/snapback] Free music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radi6404 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I don't mean to sound negative, but what's the fascination with mixes? I've never understood why they're so popular, it's just tracks that are alreay out there but mixed together. For that reason I don't have much respect for DJ's either, they don't create the music, they're not artists, yet people go crazy over them. Why? It's weird. 394641[/snapback] I think people like mixes cause the transmissiions between the tracks, do you know hwo great feelings give a 1 hour mix with only great hours, i like it if it is from the adio and you can hear the noice cause it gives a feeling that the mix is outside and live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted December 7, 2005 Author Share Posted December 7, 2005 I think people like mixes cause the transmissiions between the tracks, do you know hwo great feelings give a 1 hour mix with only great hours, i like it if it is from the adio and you can hear the noice cause it gives a feeling that the mix is outside and live. 394644[/snapback] Yeah, I appreciate it's sometimes nice not to have a break in between tracks, especially if you're clubbing, but ordinarily I like to listen to tracks in their entirety. I often find the beginning and ending of tracks are the best parts and mixes always drown these out or cut them off completely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vancbc Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I don't mean to sound negative, but what's the fascination with mixes? I've never understood why they're so popular, it's just tracks that are alreay out there but mixed together. For that reason I don't have much respect for DJ's either, they don't create the music, they're not artists, yet people go crazy over them. Why? It's weird. 394641[/snapback] I wholeheartedly disagree. A DJ is an artist. When a person has the talent to pick the proper progression of tracks and blend them seamlessly together to take people on a musical journey through the trance dance experience, that is an art form. As with many art forms, there are many practitioners but few masters. Most people want instant gratification and formulaic buildups and breakdowns in every track. A skilled DJ crafts a set that works so well that when it's over you are in awe because it's not just one stand out track you remember, but the entire thing from beginning to end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Posted December 7, 2005 Author Share Posted December 7, 2005 I wholeheartedly disagree. A DJ is an artist. When a person has the talent to pick the proper progression of tracks and blend them seamlessly together to take people on a musical journey through the trance dance experience, that is an art form. As with many art forms, there are many practitioners but few masters. Most people want instant gratification and formulaic buildups and breakdowns in every track. A skilled DJ crafts a set that works so well that when it's over you are in awe because it's not just one stand out track you remember, but the entire thing from beginning to end. 394701[/snapback] I don't agree that DJs are artists. An artist is someone who creates something new from scratch. DJ's use existing material and blend them together, it might well be a skill to blend tracks together in the way you described but it's in no way an art form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radi6404 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I wholeheartedly disagree. A DJ is an artist. When a person has the talent to pick the proper progression of tracks and blend them seamlessly together to take people on a musical journey through the trance dance experience, that is an art form. As with many art forms, there are many practitioners but few masters. Most people want instant gratification and formulaic buildups and breakdowns in every track. A skilled DJ crafts a set that works so well that when it's over you are in awe because it's not just one stand out track you remember, but the entire thing from beginning to end. 394701[/snapback] so Simon Posford is an artist and a dj, too, listen his transmissions on the cd´s, i havn´t heard such things on any set, but we all know that Simon posford plays in another liga than all other psyartists do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 so Simon Posford is an artist and a dj, too, listen his transmissions on the cd´s, i havn´t heard such things on any set, but we all know that Simon posford plays in another liga than all other psyartists do. 394707[/snapback] yes, simon is the lord ! bow the allmighty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radi6404 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 hey rian, why you want opinions of your mix, i think mixing is nothing special and your winamp can mix tracks together, too so mixing for me isn´t a skill at all. sorry i don´t watn say something against you but mixing is so easy taht i can´t get why you want an opinion of the set, anyway the tracks are choosen well. I´don´t know why we have djs because the most artists add transmissions in their tracks so the cd´s are like sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 hey rian, why you want opinions of your mix, i think mixing is nothing special and your winamp can mix tracks together, too so mixing for me isn´t a skill at all. sorry i don´t watn say something against you but mixing is so easy taht i can´t get why you want an opinion of the set, anyway the tracks are choosen well. I´don´t know why we have djs because the most artists add transmissions in their tracks so the cd´s are like sets. 394758[/snapback] well then make some really good, close to greate mix and let us see from you that track selection and beatmix is peace of cake ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
radi6404 Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 well then make some really good, close to greate mix and let us see from you that track selection and beatmix is peace of cake ! 394764[/snapback] I do my onw music and havn´t time for making mixes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reger Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 (edited) I do my onw music and havn´t time for making mixes. 394767[/snapback] thats not an excuse. if you dont have any time to make good mix then why are you saying that its so easy, i mean if its so easy then make it, easy things usually dont take up too much time and energy ! Edited December 7, 2005 by reger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaft Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 Why do people like mixes - I like them to discover new artists, albums, tracks - If a mix has artist X I like then I'll download it, but then if I discover artist Y has good stuff too then I'm inspired to check out Y's tracks too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 @Charlie Quote Charlie "I've never understood why they're so popular, it's just tracks that are alreay out there but mixed together." It is what you describe there AND tracks specificly selected to enhance each other by a very musicly dedicated person who spends a lot of his/her life listening to and finding new magical tracks. On top of this, this person (the dj) makes his own experiences as to what will work in a dj set and not - DJ sets are journeys thru trance inducing music which will stimulate different sorts of trance states in the listeners mind. Trance states can be manipulated and taken advantage off by combining tracks in certain sequences to form passages which again create a virtual journey through sound. Quote Charlie "For that reason I don't have much respect for DJ's either, they don't create the music, they're not artists, yet people go crazy over them. Why? It's weird." Well you should, since DJs are the backbone of the parties - Djs are artists, just like producers - They present a different artform than the producer - but an artform it is. Let me qoute something to you from my resume Quote Krells DJ resume "The art of Djing is creating a seamless flow through different trance inducing soundscapes & keeping an open and pure mind when choosing whatever music goes into the experience. There is a lot more to talented Djing than beatmatching & playing the latest most hyped up releases – To create a special & almost sacred trance experience the DJ has to have great wisdom & knowledge concerning both trance states and journeys through music. " Feel free to pick out any of the aspects of that qoute and I will be happy to explain it to you in greater detail. I have been a psytrance DJ for more than 10 years now, and I ask for you to respect that I know something of what makes up a great trance music experience. Quote Charlie "Yeah, I appreciate it's sometimes nice not to have a break in between tracks, especially if you're clubbing, but ordinarily I like to listen to tracks in their entirety. I often find the beginning and ending of tracks are the best parts and mixes always drown these out or cut them off completely." Actually, I dont always cut off the beginnings and endings completely - I do it most of the time, but sometimes I will include them and perform a fade mix (most basic mixing technique). I do this because sometimes intros and outros are very well done and will add more to the experience than just beatmixing the tracks. Quote Charlie "An artist is someone who creates something new from scratch. DJ's use existing material and blend them together, it might well be a skill to blend tracks together in the way you described but it's in no way an art form." A DJ creates a trance inducing experiences using existing trance inducing sounds/tracks - The total experience of the progression of the music, energy levels, mixing technique as well as what ever themes are weaven into the mix which will complement each other is the art. As a DJ you just dont find some tracks you like and spin them in some random order to get it over and done with(like winamp), you try to anticipate what will be the right music for the right time. As such you are constantly emerged in one large transitional state where you might know where you want to take the music and you need to find a way to get there without falling out of the seamlessly progressing flow you are trying to CREATE. There, do you understand now ? You CREATE flow through choosing & mixing tracks which again CREATE the total experience for the other participants in the a musicly induced trance journey. (optimum flow means the tracks will add to each other and make it all more intense/deep/interesting or whatever). Some link it to shamanism / vision quests and so forth - and yes, it does include some of those elements - But in truth, the DJ goes in between the shaman and the musician/producer and lends things from both of those roles + combines it with whatever other talent he/she can draw from. It IS a creative & artistical process requiring talent, you envision the journey and then you try to create it with the tools you have (tracks, cd players, turntables, mixers). Tools+Talent+Vision=Art. Just in case you still didnt really understand this - Let me rephrase it - PsyTrance DJing is the art of creating trance inducing musical experiences, which resemples journeys through soundscapes with a focus on mind altering experiences. (there are many Art Forms within "Djing" - This is the art of Psytrance Djing). The artistic expression is the sum of the total participant experiences created by the DJ set. THAT is the art. Not the mixing, not the singular tracks themselves - but the total experience. You know, deep trance is something skilled trancers can first achieve after listening to the same tempo / sound / stimulant for 20 minuttes (according to the trance institute). http://www.trance.ch - Soooo, listening to small 5-10 minutte tracks will never use trance inducing music to its fullest potential - Which in essence means you are missing out on something truely remarkable if you do not realize the value of DJ sets. Forgive me for going into so much detail - But, its sort of a personal quest of mine to increase awareness of what the art of Djing is - Especially since DJs are more and more being redelegated to a secondary role at especially commercial events since the crowd will go to the party to hear the names releasing CDs and not for the music. Presenting music, freely, openly and seamlessly THAT is the task of the DJ - His/Hers specialty, its an area at which the DJ will always excell generally. (even though some producers are VERY good at it, Jaïa or Son Kite for instance). @radi6404 Quote radi6404 "hey rian, why you want opinions of your mix, i think mixing is nothing special and your winamp can mix tracks together, too so mixing for me isn´t a skill at all. sorry i don´t watn say something against you but mixing is so easy taht i can´t get why you want an opinion of the set, anyway the tracks are choosen well. I´don´t know why we have djs because the most artists add transmissions in their tracks so the cd´s are like sets." Everybody can learn to mix, with time - but its is one of many things that goes into Djing (its a basic skill). Other basic skills for other artists include Drawing, Painting, Playing an instrument or even Fucking - these skills are nothing special either - However, there is a big difference between how good people are at PERFORMING THEM. Actually, people never really appreciate basic skills unless they loose their ability to perform them on a basic level... (only a FEW ever achieve the ability to perform basic skills at high artistical levels though). Anybody can mix, but not everybody mix just as well... And remember, this is only "technique", there are other aspects of DJ sets "flow", "storyline", "genre balancing", "moods", "knowledge of trance state manipulation" and plenty more which are at least as or even more important than the technique part - For some reason, people who lack the fundamental understanding of what goes into the art of Djing always focus on the superficial side of it which is the technique - Funny thing also is, that some of the worst DJs imaginable have great technique but their other abilities suck (this is why many psytrancers will enjoy a Goa Gil low technique set more than the best mixing DJ out there - other factors are more important than technique). So, getting feedback on how good you are at balancing out these different factors is paramount if you want to become better at DJing. Do you now understand why Rain wants to share his ART with the rest of us ? Btw, you say mixing is so easy ? Have you never tried it ? Tell me something about it - Since, if its so easy, why do sooooo many DJs suck at mixing tracks together then ? We have Djs because we NEED people who are good a selecting, timing and using music to create complete trance experiences - its very simple. Artists sit around in their studio nerding over creating great tracks within whatever genre they create, while they will often listen to R&B or whatever different music they can just to get a break from the electronics. In essence, a person needs TIME to find new great music and time to understand & analyse it. A producer is in his set limited by his own tracks, and this will be a limiting factor in any set he is trying to create. Its great for maybe 1 - 1½ hours, but then for most artists(producers limited to their own tracks) its usually over. DJs are free of these limiting factors, they have all the music of the world to choose from, all they need is to understand what it will do to the audience & how to mix it together to maximum effect in a given situation (party, radio, downloadable set - whatever). EASY TO CREATE GREAT MIXES ? Takes me around 2 weeks to create a 2-3 hour set which I will get very positive feedback on - And thats NOT counting the time it takes me to find the tracks (which is, on average, 2 hours of constant listening to new music everyday). And I have been practicing for a decade now, and rating the text I have just thrown in your face, I shouldnt look like a complete moron I think ;-) Re-evaluate your statements please :-) Best Wishes Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rain Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 ooopss, fuck, instead of "quote" I've pushed the "edit" button - Anoebis sorry for messing this up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krell Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 I'm not going to answer to all of this... first the track is created in 1998 and first released in 2000 so it is old skool cinos there are so many things said in this thread I can't reply.. mixing is easy ???? you have no idea how hard it is to find good track, to create a perfect balance, to tell a store, to beatmatch... mixing is not easy... trust me.... I see a lot of people like radioblalbalaba & charlie replying and already know now that they never mixed a track before... I know many dj's, + live acts... and it's not fucking easy... I know dj's who play all over the world and it takes 4 full days to create a 2 hour perfect mix... some guys just realy don't know what they talking about.... the problem is you don't have a clue when I beatmacht and when I don't cause that's what beatmatching is all about.... that you don't notice... well I'm very tired and will reply more... but a lot of unexperenciend things are told in this thread here.... I'm a bit suprised of some.... just give you one hint... mixing old skool is very difficult cause it changes bpm all the time... so when the bpm is right then you have too beatmacht... mostly thast just 1 minute maximum... I spend two hours to create a perfect mix from one track to another... 2 hours , mark my words cause old skool mixing is so fucking but so fucking difficult.... dj's try to combine different tracks from differnet artist to tell a story... and that is what goatrance is all about... using trance to tell a story 394817[/snapback] Mixing old school is difficult due to the production of the tracks, the kicks do not stand out as they do with modern full on & progressive (and are often very high frequency) - the mastering is a lot different and bad complicating things. Also, the tracks are often fast (beyond 145 bpm) which makes them harder to mix @ cd players with only 0,1 pitch precision. Yeah, mixing is hard - often when people hurry into mixing they will think "oh this is easy, no problem" - but once you point out all the errors they are making and where they need to improve those statements often turn to dust pretty fast. You learn, that it will never be good enough, never perfect. The best sounding mixes are normally also the easiet mixes, while the hardest mixes are often the ones who will sound crappy... So, the quality of the mixes is proportional to the time you spend scouting for compatible and usable tracks. (which takes a lot of time if these tracks are still to be very good and interesting musicly).. :-) Krell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rain Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 This mix is kinda fast... you have to be in the right mood to enjoy this.. right now I am, definately :) lovely tracks. That selection is really wicked. Mixing is quite alright too, in fact its really good considering this is your first mix. I think I've heard most of the tunes already, but right now I can only label #3 as a Cydonia track. btw... the last track is pure ownage, holy shit, what is this? 394792[/snapback] thanx for the feedback friend... the first reply that actually goes about the mix himself and yés it's a bit fast... it's a pure goatrance mix just before a party to get warmed up or just after a party to keep the spirt high Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psybrat Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 just wanted to share with you guys ... i agree with krell and rain .. mixing is an art in itself .. track selection, combining tracks, making them work and the journey it creates is an art in itself.. you will come across artists who are good but cannot DJ .. and also, good DJ but they cannot produce music like artists so .. and ofcourse, people who can spin and produce .. people are different .. charlie and radi604 ... coming to the issue .. if you don't like mixes, don't download them .. nobody is forcing you to do that .. and hey, the crowd likes what they like i.e. mixes .. you cannot impose your likes/dislikes on the crowd .. imo, it's more of "your problem" than a "problem of the scene" .. just curious, where are you guys from? which country, .. how do you guys party there? maybe setup a big soundsystem .. load the CDs and let them play ... i am sure paying DJs to spin in your world, is a waste of money .. i mean, the CD player can shuffle the tracks right .. play them from start to end .. we don't need humans for that .. especially, pay humans to eject a CD and insert next CD and press play .. there is no intellect there .. why pay dumb ppl right? be cool .. peace, psybrat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rain Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 "I know dj's who play all over the world and it takes 4 full days to create a 2 hour perfect mix..." That's the only thing I never understood, how people can MAKE a set before playing... I think a dj should feel what the public wants... And make his set "live", when you prepared one it is impossible to react on the needs of the public... maybe I'm just too old school, don't know... Anyway, about the mix, it has many great tracks, but it is a little too much uppitched, or is it just me? As it are more story telling tracks... And the first track sucks imo But except of that nice! Let's try to see what I recognised immediately 1. Unknown 2. Too Full On For Me (Rain Rmx) 3. I have it, but can't find the title 4. Cydonia (mentioned before) 5. Jaia & Dado - Sillenium 6. forgot the name, it is Brittish :| 7. Cosmosis - Gift of the Gods 8. no idea 9. no idea 10. Deedrah - The Wizard Demo 11. lol, our own Khetzal 12. Avigmaty - Babylone Beach 13. Lost Buddha - Metamorphosis 394823[/snapback] well you dj like 6 years now but I'm still waiting for a set online with perfect beatmacht ... I have sets of you that are then thousand more wurse beatmacthed on my harddisk but I still enjoy them because you chose your tracks perfectly... the first track is the my first goa track I ever heard... and I love it the atmosphere is super it is indeed uppitched but that was my intention... A GOOD MELODIC GOATRANCE SHOOT STRAIGHT UP YOUR ASS !!! but to be honest anoebis your mixes never tell a story... you just mix random... don't create a list... I don't I want it all figured out, the atmosphere, the story, before I start mixing... It's just a differnet perspective... ps: your tracklist isn't correct peace my friend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rain Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 ooopss, fuck, instead of "quote" I've pushed the "edit" button - Anoebis sorry for messing this up 394817[/snapback] what the fuck I didn't post that what is going on ??????? you can see, the next user quoted me ???? where is my post ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 what the fuck I didn't post that what is going on ??????? 394829[/snapback] well, as I said I pushed the wrong button, I wanted to reply and pushed edit by accident sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rain Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 well, as I said I pushed the woring button, I wanted to reply and pushed edit by accident sorry 394831[/snapback] ah ok... you're still a mod... got it no problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 well you dj like 6 years now but I'm still waiting for a set online with perfect beatmacht ... 394825[/snapback] lol, there are 4 mixes on the psychedelic site and as far as I remember they are all perfectly beatmixed... no? And there is 1 mix floating around which is terrible indeed (the Dacru one, recorded like 3 years ago when I was really ill :s) And you said I mix random? My mixes are simply made for telling a story, it's the number 1 reason that I'm still dj-ing... I'm busy literally 5 hours a day chosing tracks that fit together, but I would never write down a list before mixing... I did it 1 time in my whole life, and that was the most terrible set in my life... I saw I was going a wrong direction at a certain moment, and I couldn't change it because I had to stick to that fucking paper... never again... Mixing with a list is losing contact with the public... because what do you do when you see a track or a style is not very well accepted...? Which tracks were wrong from your mix? I want to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rain Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 lol, there are 4 mixes on the psychedelic site and as far as I remember they are all perfectly beatmixed... no? And there is 1 mix floating around which is terrible indeed (the Dacru one, recorded like 3 years ago when I was really ill :s) And you said I mix random? My mixes are simply made for telling a story, it's the number 1 reason that I'm still dj-ing... I'm busy literally 5 hours a day chosing tracks that fit together, but I would never write down a list before mixing... I did it 1 time in my whole life, and that was the most terrible set in my life... I saw I was going a wrong direction at a certain moment, and I couldn't change it because I had to stick to that fucking paper... never again... Mixing with a list is losing contact with the public... because what do you do when you see a track or a style is not very well accepted...? Which tracks were wrong from your mix? I want to know 394833[/snapback] my mistake I thought you said you mixed random not me... misunderstood... I have no list too, I just know them by head 12 shame on you it's a suntrip one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoebis Posted December 7, 2005 Share Posted December 7, 2005 12 shame on you it's a suntrip one 394834[/snapback] Well, isn't it Avigmati? Or am I so tired of all schoolwork I don't remember my own cds...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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