sherlockalien Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 yes, I probably would've like it better if it wasn't for the 1001 remixes that came afterwards... 371425[/snapback] I havent heard any remix from it that I remember.... but since I like prog house stuff, I can imagine that it could be made into very very good material... Check this place out...vast collection of different types of Electronic Music Genres and their origins. The Flash has Sound samples as well....VERY NEAT 1. GO HERE: http://www.di.fm/edmguide/ 2. Click on the link that says "Launch Ishkur's Guide to Electronic Music!" 371428[/snapback] I really disagree with this guide, to tell you the truth.. too much opinion from the guy instead of a bit more of objectivity.. and some wrong things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visine Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Psy Trance spawned from somewhere thats for sure. I mean, people like FSOL, Eat Static and so on, were around long before someone even knew "GOA" as a genre. Im more intressted in the Trance that came at the time of 1990-1994 no later than that. X-dream and Blue Planet Corp have made their respecitve breakthroughs in 1993 with their Trance classics such as Children of the last generation and Over Bloody Flood. They fit well within your time range. For ME that was the period when it all started with Trance. Of course, you can say that Hardfloor is an acid act, but they sure had something to do with the acid trance that came out later, dont you agree? Exactly my dilemma...where do you draw the line? If you include Acid Techno guys like Hardfloor then that will open the door to many more. Of course, I also have to start somewhere, and I think that Sven will be a good "reference" since hes been around since 1983 as a DJ. Moby's classic "Go" for example had a great influence on modern Trance, but good luck getting ahold of him today. Paul Van Dyk had some great tunes back in a day....now he is voted no. 1 DJ in the world by DJmag. Pete Lazonby's Sacred Cycles is another milestone as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 I really disagree with this guide, to tell you the truth.. too much opinion from the guy instead of a bit more of objectivity.. and some wrong things ah come on, the dude is obvioulsy making tongue-in-cheek comments... the truth is that electronic music is being churned out at a phenomenal rate (just think of all the releases apearing every month in the psytrance genre alone!) and NOONE can keep pace with it all... I think we should admire his effort to bring it all into a "digestible dose". And then once you go into the "obscure pre-1990 period" then it really gets muddy simply because back then people into electronic music weren't looking for $$ like they do today. So instead of looking at the most sold records to know what's mostly being played in clubs, you had to search for the little B-side track on a sub-sub label that has long been out of existence... supposing someone still has one of the 50 vinyls that were ever printed... and is willing to share... Add to that the fact that us humans prefer linear evolutions whereas in reality it's more like chaos theory... for example, in Belgium New Beat was hot, everyone would label their electronic productions "New Beat" cause it sold... but for example in the UK eveything was about acid house, so you'll find the SAME releases that were labled "New Beat" in Belgium on "Acid House" comps in the UK!! Same thing is happening today: something might be considered Hardstyle in one country and Trance in another! So who's to say what falls in which genre anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 X-dream and Blue Planet Corp have made their respecitve breakthroughs in 1993 with their Trance classics such as Children of the last generation and Over Bloody Flood. They fit well within your time range. Exactly my dilemma...where do you draw the line? If you include Acid Techno guys like Hardfloor then that will open the door to many more. Moby's classic "Go" for example had a great influence on modern Trance, but good luck getting ahold of him today. Paul Van Dyk had some great tunes back in a day....now he is voted no. 1 DJ in the world by DJmag. Pete Lazonby's Sacred Cycles is another milestone as well. 371439[/snapback] Yeah, I mean, Tracks like Acperience or Into the Nature, for me are not really acid techno, they are more like Acid Trance to me. However, someone might call it diffrent. But the parties that I remember, were like this: A dj (Maybe Dj Dash from Sweden?) Played a set of Records, and there was everything from Cosmic Baby to Resistance D and Hardfloor in the set. Everything mixed together, for us was Trance. I mean, this was 1992-1993 I started djing back then, and I was playing "Trance" according to everyone that set a Label on me. And I was playing Everything from Eat Static to Hardfloor and back to Klang der Familie. Not to mention the good old "Out here were stoned" by Erection, which was played all over the places Those things have changed now though. Nowadays, we play one genre only, and we stick true to that genre. "NEVER PLAY ANOTHER GENRE IN YOUR SET! THATS NOT ALLOWED" seems to be the law now hehe. I still mix all genres up, and people seem to love it. Especially since I STILL carry my Eye-Q and Harthouse releases around in my record bag (I change them from time to time though ) But anyways, lets stay on topic here. I want to know where it all started, and I want to know who the grandfathers are. We all know "Roughly" who the grandfathers are, but what do these so called grandfathers have to say about the issue? Who were they influenced by, THAT is the really intressting thing Anyways, I just realized that this is a VERY big project, and I will have to involve some other people with the interviews..... *going to make a few phonecalls now....* *poff* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 Oh about Ishkurs site, yeah cool site, been there seen that.... dont agree with him always, but still very cool But hey: Choice - Acid Eifel is NOT HARD ACID! Acid Scout - 4 Degrees is NOT HARD ACID Those are classic Acid Trance tracks! Anyways, who am I to judge the genre?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted November 1, 2005 Share Posted November 1, 2005 ah for the acid craze... EVERYTHING was acid in the early 90s!! As far as I'm concerned, the only distiguishable difference is between acid house and acid techno (simply because acid house didn't really use that much 303s)... but for the other acid genres... they were ALL caracterized by excessive use of the little silver box... and early trance just so happened to make excessive use of the little silver box as well... I rememeber strolling through some acid techno comps at the time and I foudn that a LOT of them were practically oldschool goa released under acid techno lables! Ah and good luck on your quest Nemo, I remember that I once sent an email to Goa Gil asking for the same question and... he never replied Hope you'll have better luck than I did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Pioneers of Trance ? Huuuh, there are so many of them. I say that germans RULE with pioneers, they are true founders of ELECTROnic genre and set the standards with swedes with equipment on which they experiemented and practiced most, they developed trance style from old school ambient psychedelia. I think that TANGERINE DREAM, no matter the ambient music they made were first, true pioneers of trance states in Germany. Their soundscapes were truly cosmic and psychedelic and they were first ones that haven't made conservative electronic music back then despite Pink Floyd, Kraftwerk and Jean Michel Jarre. But, from modern master minds I can mention : Sven Vath Ralf Hildenbeutel Stevie Be Zet Oliver Lieb Pete Namlook A.C. Bousten Pascal F.E.O.S. Jochem Paap Oliver Bondzio Ramon Zenker Gerald Becker Roman Flügel Jörn Elling Wuttke Andreas Krüger Bill Leeb Rhys Fulber Those are old school trance and techno producers but if we speak of pioneers of psychedelic and goa trance next names should be mentioned : Boris Blenn Gabriel Masurel Frederick Holyszewski Christophe Drouillet Martin Freeland Joti Sidhu Dino Psaras Merv Pepler Simon Posford Serge Souque Nick Barber Avi Nissim Lior Perlmutter Avi Algranati Ofer Dikovsky Har El Pruskky Rami Shapira Tsyoshi Suzuki Carlo Patterno Andrea Rizzo Maurizio Begotti Miranda Silvergreen Paul Jackson Benji Vaughan Ben Watkins Graham Wood Ian Ion Frank'E The lists are endless, there are many pioneers that build this scene... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 The lists are endless, there are many pioneers that build this scene...This is why I will have to start with ONE artist, and then see where that leads me. I mean, of course, I will be stopped on the way, since some of the people chose not to talk to people that they dont know over email. I wouldnt care to ask Goa Gil for instance, because I dont consider him a pioneer of Trance. Another group that I will not be able to contact the next 3-4 years is The KLF, they have sworn not to talk about music or themselfves for 5 years since their car came out... whatever... but Alex Patterson might be able to help instead?! To understand the "GoaTrance/PsyTrance" Genre I think you first need to understand the Trance genre. Well well, we will see what happens my friends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I wouldnt care to ask Goa Gil for instance, because I dont consider him a pioneer of Trance. well the dude was DJing since the 70s so he's even older than Sven Väth and thus should know even more about the stuff... BTW the legend has it that when Sven Väth first came to Goa he was astonished to see people complement him on his work which was vritually unknown and recored in 8bits And well like you say, trance started splitting up around 94-95, so for me all the music done before has a common denominator I really hope you'll hear from Sven... and that he won't give you a shameless self-promotion answer like "Me and my Eye Q label created Trance"... (although I woulsn't be surprised if he did) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I really hope you'll hear from Sven... and that he won't give you a shameless self-promotion answer like "Me and my Eye Q label created Trance"... (although I wouldn't be surprised if he did) 371986[/snapback] ...and even if he did, he has right to ( okay, not actually to say they created trance, but they were surely one of the creators ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seraph Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I really hope you'll hear from Sven... and that he won't give you a shameless self-promotion answer like "Me and my Eye Q label created Trance"... (although I wouldn't be surprised if he did) 371986[/snapback] ...and even if he did, he has right to ( okay, not actually to say they created trance, but they were surely one of the creators ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 well the dude was DJing since the 70s so he's even older than Sven Väth and thus should know even more about the stuff... BTW the legend has it that when Sven Väth first came to Goa he was astonished to see people complement him on his work which was vritually unknown and recored in 8bits And well like you say, trance started splitting up around 94-95, so for me all the music done before has a common denominator I really hope you'll hear from Sven... and that he won't give you a shameless self-promotion answer like "Me and my Eye Q label created Trance"... (although I woulsn't be surprised if he did) 371986[/snapback] I have talked to Sven a couple of times already actually, and hes less self centered that one would think. Hes a very openminded and great person to talk to. However, I have heard the contrary about mr Gil But I am not here to judge people, since I dont know Gil, and therefor will not have an opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 That sounds cool! When you've allready talked to Sven it might really be possible that he answers the question. That would be just great... I am personally a bit affraid that some artists are not that interested answering question when it's not for something that brings them money. But maybe I'm just to negative... (hopefully I am!! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 That sounds cool! When you've allready talked to Sven it might really be possible that he answers the question. That would be just great... I am personally a bit affraid that some artists are not that interested answering question when it's not for something that brings them money. But maybe I'm just to negative... (hopefully I am!! ) 372017[/snapback] I think they will be participating, since its also good for their promotion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 True, I haven't seen it from this point of view! But free promo is of course always welcome... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 True, I haven't seen it from this point of view! But free promo is of course always welcome... 372031[/snapback] Exactor I mean, my ideas have been growing since I first posted this post I was thinking of actually writing a book on the matter. And in the book, in the inlay you will find CDS of music from the artists that were the so called "pioneers" and on the inlay of the backside, you will find another set of cds, with remixes of the same tracks by artists today. Something like that I mean, it will take a lot of money, and a lot of work, but this is deffinetly something that would sell, and also something that is intressting to read about We are all children of electronica Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I see that, the longer you think the better it gets!! You can be sure I'll be the first to buy the Book and CDs... You could add a link or maybe pin-code in every book so people could access a website (or a special part of a website since it would be better everyone can access the regular site) with special informations or more tracks to download. Then you could use the webspace to post the full interviews and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deepdrone Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I havent heard any remix from it that I remember.... but since I like prog house stuff, I can imagine that it could be made into very very good material... I really disagree with this guide, to tell you the truth.. too much opinion from the guy instead of a bit more of objectivity.. and some wrong things 371430[/snapback] WELL THEN WHAT other guide would you (or the other) recommend ????????????? No offence intended. I just want to know a proper guide. Or there is no such Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 WELL THEN WHAT other guide would you (or the other) recommend ????????????? No offence intended. I just want to know a proper guide. Or there is no such 372068[/snapback] I alos disagree with some of the guide, but its indeed very good done. I guess, you will have to wait, until we write our book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Tatsu, THAT is a VERY good idea indeed. To actually have a site for it where you can download more if you sign up and stuff. I mean, maybe we can even get some artists to post their old tracks on there royalty free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatsu Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I'm glad you like me idea! I just though that people will have an extra motivation to buy the book and the CD instead of just downloading the tracks when they hear about it from friends. Plus you can always add new stuff on the page (kijnd like a database or whatever) if you find some new informations or meet new artists. And you can allready start the page when publishing the book is far away, so you can promote yourself, maybe find sponsors and reach the public... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tox Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Be sure to include some of the Belgian Godfathers of Dance Music: Renaat Vandepapeliere (R&S Rec's) Maurice Engelen Olivier Adams Olivier Abbeloos CJ Bolland Jade 4U These ppl invented some sounds everybody still recycles today... If there's anything I can do to help in this project let me know (like hosting for the site?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I'm glad you like me idea! I just though that people will have an extra motivation to buy the book and the CD instead of just downloading the tracks when they hear about it from friends. Plus you can always add new stuff on the page (kijnd like a database or whatever) if you find some new informations or meet new artists. And you can allready start the page when publishing the book is far away, so you can promote yourself, maybe find sponsors and reach the public... 372100[/snapback] Hehe, you just started a beast you know!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 Be sure to include some of the Belgian Godfathers of Dance Music: Renaat Vandepapeliere (R&S Rec's) Maurice Engelen Olivier Adams Olivier Abbeloos CJ Bolland Jade 4U These ppl invented some sounds everybody still recycles today... If there's anything I can do to help in this project let me know (like hosting for the site?) 372119[/snapback] Of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 I have talked to Sven a couple of times already actually, and hes less self centered that one would think. Hes a very openminded and great person to talk to. ah well you were lucky then... I saw him DJ once here in Belgium in the late 90s (BTW he didn't play a SINGLE trance track in his set, only minimal techno!!) and when his gig was over a dude came for an autograph... Sven signed the autograph and then made a sign to the bouncers... they all surrounded him and didn't let people walk up to him anymore. I didn't really like the attitude, made him look like fucken Michael Jackson But who knows, maybe he was just REALLY tired and wanted to go home or had a plane to catch or something... ...and even if he did, he has right to ( okay, not actually to say they created trance, but they were surely one of the creators ) ah well it might be his right... but it would take all the fun out of the quest as well. And I'm so tired of DJs using every fucken occasion to self-promote their stuff. Like I said, I can't stand it when a DJ puts a "top 5 tracks of the moment" list up and no. 1, 2 and 3 are taken by hs own productions and no. 4 and 5 are tracks made by his friends from the same label. Like what's the use of making a top then? But anyway, let's hope that Sven is different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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