Dj Atomix Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Allright, there is a lot of people who wants to make psy music. They have lots of imagination and creativity, but they find lots of troubles in the begining of your journey. Eg: - What programs I use of initiates? - Which equipments less expensive I can use of beginning? - Tutorial request and so... Please fell free to add your question that not in the above so that all let us can of some form help in its question. And remember: "knowledge does not appear of the night for the day". Learn new technics, liberate your creativity, of this form you goes far, and far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vc0n Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 i have to admit i m pretty lost.... i really dunno what programs i should get what they are good for... basicly i d love to know how to make a track from scratch... i love mixing psy in my free times... but i have to admit i gave up to make my own when i realised i didn t know where to start i got: ableton live 4.1 Reason 2.5 (but i dont understand shit about it so i gave up using it... if anyone could give me private reason lessons via msn it would be GREATLY apreciated cuz i m really starting from zero with this prog...) i also have adobe audition ... but i dont really use it... any help would be greatly apreciated... i ll leave msn address if anyone feels kind enough to help me hybrid_127@hotmail.com (thx for the topic btw ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest .::E.P Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 Alright, there is a lot of people who wants to make psy music. Maybe a little too many people We cant all be painters or wood choppers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vc0n Posted April 19, 2005 Share Posted April 19, 2005 i dont think there s too many ppl wanting to make psy trance... as it is a style of music yet to be discovered by most ppl... and the amount of artists in this specific style of music is still far from the amount of artists exploring other styles such as tech... house and such... i think only the talent should be the cookie cutter for this music... and fortunatly... talent grows with practice .... which is why we can t really complain about people (like me) wanting to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dj Atomix Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 Maybe a little too many people We cant all be painters or wood choppers 247403[/snapback] It's a psytrance forun, isn't it? The "people" who i'm relating, is the "people" here and i'ved sayed "lot" not "all". I know i'm newbye in this forum but i'm have enough knowledge of that this forum is for the mutual aid in all the possible forms. So, if you want to help "people", try do that, if not, not interpret me badly, don't confuse the line of topic of the others that try to help the "people" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dj Atomix Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 i dont think there s too many ppl wanting to make psy trance... as it is a style of music yet to be discovered by most ppl... and the amount of artists in this specific style of music is still far from the amount of artists exploring other styles such as tech... house and such... i think only the talent should be the cookie cutter for this music... and fortunatly... talent grows with practice .... which is why we can t really complain about people (like me) wanting to start. 247406[/snapback] You're not the only who want's to make psytrance, friend . I'm new in this subject (in question of make music!), so i make this topic for the people who have knowledge in this subject and want to help others peoples who love psytrance and want to be an artist of psy. I admit that the only program i have some knowledge is the FruitLoops so, if to appear some person who has some doubt in the FruitLoops of which I has knowledge, i'm here for helping with bigger pleasure because, if today I am Dj de PsyTrance and Full-on, is because I was helped. i have one question to you friend ... what type of usefulness has the program ableton live 4.1? If possible, please says one brief description of this program because I'm interested. It can also interests others Sorry about my poor english, because i'm brazilian and I did not make no course of English! He he he!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybernetika Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 I dont know Ableton Live, but I think if you have the proper VSTplugins, you can get very far with Fruity Loops. I suggest you start with fruity loops, because there you are not slowed down by details and can arrange a track quite fast and can really concentrate on the more important things for startes. If you come to the point where you consider yourself good enough, you can switch to Cubase, Live or stuff like that. btw. I might help you with a little tutorial I am writing at the moment. I'll post it in this forum when I'm finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spindrift Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Maybe a little too many people We cant all be painters or wood choppers 247403[/snapback] Should I take that as that you are planning to quit to leave room for the newcommers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dj Atomix Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 I dont know Ableton Live, but I think if you have the proper VSTplugins, you can get very far with Fruity Loops. I suggest you start with fruity loops, because there you are not slowed down by details and can arrange a track quite fast and can really concentrate on the more important things for startes. If you come to the point where you consider yourself good enough, you can switch to Cubase, Live or stuff like that. btw. I might help you with a little tutorial I am writing at the moment. I'll post it in this forum when I'm finished. 247683[/snapback] Men, It can be very, very, very important to me and maybe others too!!! Do this for us, please!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonoom Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 In regard to Vc0n's post, I suggest starting with fruity loops as well, I did the same, then went on to reason 2.5 for about 6 months and i have to say that its a good program, but compared to cubase its really not that great for psytrance. Start on fruityloops cause its a really visual set up which makes it easy to learn the fundamentals. Make sure to read plenty of tutorials online about fruityloops and how to use effects/filters/automation and so on. Since you have reason i suppose it would be easier to start on that, but i leave it up to you. But i suggest that you aim for cubase, cause it has so much more power than reason or fruityloops... good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vc0n Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 thx i ll try getting my hands on FL (which one is the newest btw... is it the FL5 or is there a newer version?) o btw.. to answer the question u asked Dj Atomix Live is mostly a mixing program... it s actualy one of the best one out there to mix music and it s used by lots of great DJs in many styles.... like Sasha and Chris Liebing but creating midis is quite hard with this prog and i dont think it s really the best to MAKE the music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dj Atomix Posted April 20, 2005 Author Share Posted April 20, 2005 I was giving a watched in the site of the CakeWalk and i'ved impressioned with the program called "Project5" take a look you too: Cakewalk Project5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vc0n Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 this prog looks real nice.... maybe some talented music makers could tell if it s worth getting... (i m pretty sure i ve seen some ppl talking about it on this forum) i was gonna give it a try with FL... but i admit i d like to stick to one program to really master for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benf52 Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 vcon check ur PMs... i would try using reason if i were u cause u already have it... and it's not that hard if s.one can help u at the begining... i can help with reason like i said in the Pm... let me know... ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimoire Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 listening closely to artists you like on headphones is also a good idea . that way you can find structure in the music, for example the way they use highhats. When you know some basics then you can be creative and do something with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vc0n Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 vcon check ur PMs... i would try using reason if i were u cause u already have it... and it's not that hard if s.one can help u at the begining... i can help with reason like i said in the Pm... let me know... ben 248012[/snapback] i added you to msn when u sent the pm... u just haven t logged on yet hehe i ll really need ur help thx in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest .::E.P Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Should I take that as that you are planning to quit to leave room for the newcommers? 247732[/snapback] Only if you join me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyfi.co.uk Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 Okay heres some bits of a thread on another forum. Its Ott answering questions on the basics of compression. Might be of help to some Newbies and other alike. Quote:Originally Posted by fuzzikittenI know that the threshold sets at what volume the compressor kicks in while the ratio sets how much. So with the threshold I can leverage when the compressor starts, and with the ratio I can leverage how 'deep' or strong the compression. With the attack I can adjust the speed of compression, which for fast sounds (like percussion) needs to be faster to keep up with the rise in volume. I use the attack to preserve the initial transients of the sound and thus some of the dynamics. Spot on.Quote:Release time specifies how long the compressor stays engaged after the sound has dropped below the threshold... I think. Ohh, a hole in my understanding!Do compressors start to release immediately after the sound exceeds the threshold or do they wait until the sound drops back below the threshold to enter the release stage? I'm looking through some manuals now and they all define 'threshold' as "the input level above which the compressor starts acting", which doesn't really answer my question.Now that I really think about it, I'm actually very unsure how the release setting affects my sound. I know that on some sounds, like a hihat, the release times are very noticeable. But on others, like bass, I have a hard time hearing the effects of the release value. I understand how the attack affects my transients, but how does release factor in to this? The release time is the rate at which the compressor reverts [recovers] to its inert state. It is a "rate" as opposed to a "time". As the input signal reduces, the gain reduction applied by the compressor reduces - at a rate set by the release time control.When a sound exceeds the threshold level, the compressor starts working. Gain is reduced by whatever ratio is set , and it reduces at a speed determined by whatever speed the "attack" is set to. When the sound either stops or reduces in level - regardless of threshold level - the amount of gain reduction will reduce. The speed at which it reduces is the "release time".So - take for example a brass stab. The compressor threshold is set at -10db.The ratio is 5:1The attack is 10ms.The release is 40ms.The brass stab plays at -5db, exceeding the threshold by 5db. As soon as the stab exceeds the threshold level the compressor starts to reduce the gain, but the rate at which it acts is controlled by the attack time. 10ms after the threshold is exceeded, the compressor has reduced the gain by a factor of 5:1, meaning that for every 5 decibels that the sound exceeds the threshold level, the actual output signal only rises by 1decibel. Because of the attack setting, the first 10ms portion of the sound [the transient] passes through untouched, before the compressor bites in and reduces the level. This gives the effect of adding a 4db spike to the front of the sound making it more "present" or more "aggressive". Great for basses, kiks, snares etc. Or brass stabs.As the brass stab ends, the level decreases and the compressor attempts to return to it's inert state. The rate at which it does this is governed by the release control. 40ms after the sound finished, the compressor has smoothly returned to it's inert state.The attack and release settings on a compressor are only partly analogous to those controls on a synth envelope generator, and then in certain ways they behave quite differently. On a compressor they are not absolutes, in that they govern speed of reaction in relation to the various signals they encounter, rather than actual absolute times to open and close. The correct term for this is "slew rate". A better analogy is the portamento [glide] control on a synth.Think about the portamento [glide] control on a synth, and how higher [slower] values mean that the synth takes longer to reach the note you play. As always, the best way to find out is to experiment until the concepts become clear in your mind.Incidentally, the Focusrite cost £850 but the Drawmer was free - payment for editing a Shpongle track. It had been gathering dust in Simon's rack for years and I'd had my eye on it for a while....__________________ *struggles to wrap brain around new concepts*So the 'release' sets how fast the compressor 'lets go' of the sound, once the sound peaks in volume and starts to reduce.So if I wanted to preserve transients on the release-side of things, I would want as fast of a release as possible, because the faster the compressor lets go the more of the natural transients will be heard (as opposed to attack, where the longer it takes to engage the more transients are heard). Too fast and I will hear the compressor 'let go' and get that pumping effect, so it's a balance of fast release vs pumping, correct?So I guess on the release side what I'm listening for is the pumping effect to tell me it's too fast and that I need a little bit longer release?And, given that the previous sentence bears some truth, is there a similar thing to be listened for with the attack to tell if it's too long?***I guess Simon preferred the TC Electronic Finaliser as his compressor then? I don't see any Drawmer gear other than the Gate on the 'Technical' bit of his webpage... http://www.shpongle.com/hallucinoge...d-technical.htmI have one bit of hardware - a rack k2500. It took me a year and a half to finally bite the bullet to learn to program it, but now that I have I've started to appreciate the joys of hardware. It just sounds so *good*. Thank you for the help in understanding this - I've never thought these 'finer details' of compression through so much. ________________ Quote | Reply - Report Quote:Originally Posted by fuzzikittenSo the 'release' sets how fast the compressor 'lets go' of the sound, once the sound peaks in volume and starts to reduce.So if I wanted to preserve transients on the release-side of things, I would want as fast of a release as possible, because the faster the compressor lets go the more of the natural transients will be heard (as opposed to attack, where the longer it takes to engage the more transients are heard). Too fast and I will hear the compressor 'let go' and get that pumping effect, so it's a balance of fast release vs pumping, correct? Exactly.Quote:So I guess on the release side what I'm listening for is the pumping effect to tell me it's too fast and that I need a little bit longer release? Pretty much. The faster your attack and release times are set, the more you will hear the compression effect. Quote:And, given that the previous sentence bears some truth, is there a similar thing to be listened for with the attack to tell if it's too long? Yes. Attack too long = lumpy sound.All a matter of taste though, obviously. As in so many things, "wrong settings" can sound brilliant...Quote:Thank you for the help in understanding this - I've never thought these 'finer details' of compression through so much. I've said it hundreds of times - the compressor is the most important tool in your box. You can use them to make things sound louder, quieter, smoother, lumpier, bigger, smaller, dirtier, cleaner, brighter, darker, fatter, thiner, shorter, longer, wetter, drier, etc etc etc etc....__________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyfi.co.uk Posted April 20, 2005 Share Posted April 20, 2005 phew I'm glad I didn't have to write this. Cut and past is our friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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