asian_bud_nation Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I've been making music for quite some time, been playing regular live sets, even a set in surround sound, all with music done in reason... reason is an amazing piece of software, but somehow i find the only way to get a big "fat" sound. and not the dead, flat sound that reason produces by default, is to export the individual tracks to digital performer or protools and then do the final mixdown in one of those software programs.. i was just wondering if any of you reason users have experienced similar problems and if u know of any professional psy trance produced with reason..i know a lot of people use vst's, but ive experimented enough with the subtractor and malstrom that i can get all the sounds i currently need out of them...i know people like gms and infected use a whole studio full of outboard gear, but other artists like yahel have actually downsized to smaller studios using a program like cubase and other plugins are their main music making source...however...im sure that other, less well known artists who dont have as much financial support have to rely on computers...im just wondering if reason is ever an option for them.. dont get me wrong, but ive heard lots of bad ass music made with reason, hip hop, trip hop, all kinds of stuff..even my own music sounds alright..im just scared that if i stick with reason my music will never go anywhere...has anyone felt the same way or does anyone have any advice?? thanks a lot, abn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmithabaBuddha Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I've been making music for quite some time, been playing regular live sets, even a set in surround sound, all with music done in reason... reason is an amazing piece of software, but somehow i find the only way to get a big "fat" sound. and not the dead, flat sound that reason produces by default, is to export the individual tracks to digital performer or protools and then do the final mixdown in one of those software programs.. i was just wondering if any of you reason users have experienced similar problems and if u know of any professional psy trance produced with reason..i know a lot of people use vst's, but ive experimented enough with the subtractor and malstrom that i can get all the sounds i currently need out of them...i know people like gms and infected use a whole studio full of outboard gear, but other artists like yahel have actually downsized to smaller studios using a program like cubase and other plugins are their main music making source...however...im sure that other, less well known artists who dont have as much financial support have to rely on computers...im just wondering if reason is ever an option for them.. dont get me wrong, but ive heard lots of bad ass music made with reason, hip hop, trip hop, all kinds of stuff..even my own music sounds alright..im just scared that if i stick with reason my music will never go anywhere...has anyone felt the same way or does anyone have any advice?? thanks a lot, abn 198289[/snapback] Reason doenst limits you , your tecnique does. i also use FL Studio Rewired to Reason 2.5 and its enough! btw what genre do you produce ? check my old skool goa tracks on www.ic-musicmedia.com/thelostbuddha and www.ic-musicmedia.com/amithababuddha , my main project , and tell what do you think about it. Take care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian_bud_nation Posted September 28, 2004 Author Share Posted September 28, 2004 Thanks for the response... I know reason is a great, stable program, and i use it all the time, at home and on stage..I was just wondering how far it'll get me. I mean when I tell people I've made my tracks in reason or actually open the files and show them my 6 mixers, 20 scream units, etc. they're like wow holy shit i didnt know u could do this in reason...i push my creativity to the max everyday to get sounds i like, im just want to know if paying hundreds of bucks for more software and plugins will amount to that much more thant what I already am doing. I have outboard gear (Korg Electribe MX, Korg Kaoss Pad, Roland V-Drums) which I'm beginning to incorporate into studio work rather than just on stage, and it makes a difference already...im just not sure about reason.. anyways i dont know why im so skeptical all of a sudden ive been using reason for the longest time and have never had any complaints...mm..maybe it'd just be reassuring to find out if any of the big acts..not huge but somewhat well known are using reason at all...it shouldnt make a difference, i mean software is like an instrument, if u get to know it well everything falls into place...but still...would be reassuring.. again, thanks, will try to make it over to your site and download some stuff...unfortunately im in thailand and faster connections, although in existance, are really not that much faster...so im stuck with a 56k which i dont even think runs at top speed....this means downloading a 4 mb file takes me sbout an hour..anyways will try my best.. peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benf52 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 well from what i know few artists use reason as a sequencer... some use it to add to their cubase or logic setup... the main reason is the sound quality, the Eq, compressors which are not very good in reason... which doesn't mean u can't make a good track with it, but i would suggest u try logic or cubase and see for urself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest djnemo Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 If you are using Cubase SX 2 you can use VST Effects on each reason channel. That way you can use nice compressors etc to faten up your sound. I use reason for drums and samples, because I love the sampler and the drum-machine. But I do all the programming in Cubase. I also have a VirusC which I use for sounds that you cant generate with Reason (Atleast not as good and rich sounding). When you have a hardware synth, you will hear the diffrence between them. I will not say that your music will not sound rich and good if you are only using software, though. You can make A LOT with software only. Its up to you to chose, but you have to (Damn, that sounds like something that papa said) try the other possibilities to know what you prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgranber Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 As far as i know both SynSun and Shiva Chandra uses Reason a LOT in their tracks, and u can actually tell the sound is coming from the subtractor, malström etc... They also use a few elab samples from the factory soundbank. Shiva's sound is nicely blended and layered, but SynSun sounds too much "Reason" for my taste. The overused nn19 sampled strings from the factory soundbank is very easy to recon.. just check out their latest work and u will hear! btw, i even have a .rps file that SynSun made a few years ago. If my memory serves me well i think it was SynSun who did the music for a demo called "604" in the pc demo scene once... it was an astral styled trance track made with Reason.. believe it or not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmithabaBuddha Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 reason sounds ok to me.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 yea it has the dead sound ..but still prodigys new album is done only with it (you can hear the reason sound imo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest djnemo Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 yea it has the dead sound ..but still prodigys new album is done only with it (you can hear the reason sound imo) 198375[/snapback] Not completely true. Liam did the arrangement in it, but used many external techniques and also pro tools to fatten things up. Pro Tools Oberheim 4 Voice Korg MS20 Manley EQP1-A Valve EQ Phoenix Stereo Compressor A Culture Vulture stereo Distortion Microkorg Mackie 8buss 32 Channel mixer Those are the things used for sounds and mastering, not only reason. Still the album is not good sounding, but that is not due to Reason.... You can make a very nice sound with Reason, it depends on how creative you are, and how much other pieces of software you have. Compressors and EQ's are a very good tip. But it of course depends on what you want... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Towelie Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 i see.. what i heard was wrong then .. damn liars .. but i think it sounds reason still somehow.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naiman Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 i see.. what i heard was wrong then .. damn liars .. but i think it sounds reason still somehow.. 198389[/snapback] I also thought it was done mainly in Reason.. i think the media has probably twisted Liam's words, somewhere he said that he can now use an laptop and do music with reason anywhere he want's. So in many places they wrote that it's done like entirely with Reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgranber Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 I also thought it was done mainly in Reason.. i think the media has probably twisted Liam's words, somewhere he said that he can now use an laptop and do music with reason anywhere he want's. So in many places they wrote that it's done like entirely with Reason. 198396[/snapback] i read that too... he also said he didn't use the synths and fx very much, but mostly sampled stuff looped and played through dr.rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest djnemo Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 i read that too... he also said he didn't use the synths and fx very much, but mostly sampled stuff looped and played through dr.rex 198398[/snapback] Future Music, best and most reliable resource on the planet for electronic music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benf52 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 i also read that article where liam said he used reason for a lot of stuffs... but of course he doesn't use reason as a sequencer... it becomes a whole different story if u export ur parts dry from reason to a good sequencer like protools imo... so yeah u can use reason to make tracks but i would advice to use it in complement to a better sequencer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian_bud_nation Posted September 30, 2004 Author Share Posted September 30, 2004 the article on liam i read was on the propellerheads website, and of course, because it's reason's website, im sure they twisted a lot of what he said to make the interview another good advertising source for them...but anyways, it did make it clear that liam just got to the point where he had too much hardware gear and he didnt know where to start, so he looked for something at the opposite end of the spectrum, something much simpler, and he ended up with reason...but yeah, the arrangement and composition was then moved out of reason into protools for mixing and compression, etc... anyways ppl, reason in awsome program but i think a lot of u understand where im coming from...it just lacks energy...u know? every software program has its own "sound," and unfortunately reason just happens to have this dead sound...its fine if ure making IDM or some ambient stuff where energy and power isnt a factor, but for us psyheads u need the extra push... i have a bunch of tracks (hopefully get them online soon, in the process of making a webpage) and the mix is good, i like the sounds, but even when i play them on club PA systems with 18" subs, theres something missing...that analog punch...so what i usually have to do when i play live is add another layer of drums from my electribe, turn the tube gain up, and then ive got the sounds I want..unfortunately, reason on its own just doesnt cut it.. dont know, just my opinion tho, like i said, im still a fan of reason, just wish they could take one step forward on sound quality.. peace.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benf52 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 asian bud nation: i know how u feel cause i used to use reason for a while... i was getting some good sounds but not as fat as i wanted to.. then i got logic and let me tell u there is a big difference in sound.. even if u just use logic's synth and effects... so if i were u i would really get logic or cubase and give it a try, u won't be disappointed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmithabaBuddha Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 the problem is in you! your techniques and knowledgements are the problem. just wait to listen to my next track (im not sure if it will be free since that some labels start to be interested in my work.) made in Fruity Loops Studio 4.51.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asian_bud_nation Posted October 1, 2004 Author Share Posted October 1, 2004 you're right..it could just be me and my skills/technique...but ive just finished a years worth of audio engineering school and everything i learned cant really be applied in reason..the compressors and eq units are junk, even the delay units could use a little quality control...so in the end i always have sit there and bounce every single individual track (rewire just bogs down my computer too much) and then import all the files into digital performer or something and apply eq and compression from there...i mean it works, i can't complain, but yeah....its not that i dont have other programs...i have cubase SX, ableton live, and digital performer, and even use pro tools when i can get my hands on a friend's m-box or the schools HD system, but for some reason theres one part of every program that isnt compatible with my soundcard (emagic soundcard, so no ASIO, so no cubase SX, etc....) but anyways, will be getting the MOTU 828MKII end of october so ill see if things change.... anyways, thanks for everyone's feedback, good to know i'm not the only one thats feels the way i do about reason...its a love - hate relationship... peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest djnemo Posted October 1, 2004 Share Posted October 1, 2004 but anyways, will be getting the MOTU 828MKII end of october so ill see if things change.... mmmmmm nice card Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solipsism Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 I've been making music for quite some time, been playing regular live sets, even a set in surround sound, all with music done in reason... reason is an amazing piece of software, but somehow i find the only way to get a big "fat" sound. and not the dead, flat sound that reason produces by default, is to export the individual tracks to digital performer or protools and then do the final mixdown in one of those software programs.. i was just wondering if any of you reason users have experienced similar problems and if u know of any professional psy trance produced with reason..i know a lot of people use vst's, but ive experimented enough with the subtractor and malstrom that i can get all the sounds i currently need out of them...i know people like gms and infected use a whole studio full of outboard gear, but other artists like yahel have actually downsized to smaller studios using a program like cubase and other plugins are their main music making source...however...im sure that other, less well known artists who dont have as much financial support have to rely on computers...im just wondering if reason is ever an option for them.. dont get me wrong, but ive heard lots of bad ass music made with reason, hip hop, trip hop, all kinds of stuff..even my own music sounds alright..im just scared that if i stick with reason my music will never go anywhere...has anyone felt the same way or does anyone have any advice?? thanks a lot, abn 198289[/snapback] Reason 2.5 was designed in such a way that to ge the full potential from it, it needs to be rewired or exported to a program like cubase. The reasoning behind this is that in order for all the different units to be of a high a standard as possible they had to downgrade if you like other aspects of the software....it tells you in the reason 2.5 manual that it has been designed primarily to be be rewired, reason creates sounds at a lower output than would be considered normal this is to save on the processor power thus allowing for more functionality in reason's different untis. the thinking behind it is you can then raise the output in whichever host program it's being rewired or exported to also programs like cubase will automatically generate a fuller sound...this is why you'll be experiencing the problems regarding the sound quality of your finished reason productions. If you're just starting out you'll find there is tons and tons of stuff you can do with reason, it's all about getting to know the untis and how to wire them up and which units to use with which....this will only come with practise, trial and error, but in theory the possibilities with reason are endless, it's down to how you use the program...a way to really open up reason's functions and use the program to it's full capacity is to get a midi controller keyboard, this will give you a lot more functionality and freedom over what you can do with the program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solipsism Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 Reason 2.5 was designed in such a way that to ge the full potential from it, it needs to be rewired or exported to a program like cubase. The reasoning behind this is that in order for all the different units to be of a high a standard as possible they had to downgrade if you like other aspects of the software....it tells you in the reason 2.5 manual that it has been designed primarily to be be rewired, reason creates sounds at a lower output than would be considered normal this is to save on the processor power thus allowing for more functionality in reason's different untis. the thinking behind it is you can then raise the output in whichever host program it's being rewired or exported to also programs like cubase will automatically generate a fuller sound...this is why you'll be experiencing the problems regarding the sound quality of your finished reason productions. If you're just starting out you'll find there is tons and tons of stuff you can do with reason, it's all about getting to know the untis and how to wire them up and which units to use with which....this will only come with practise, trial and error, but in theory the possibilities with reason are endless, it's down to how you use the program...a way to really open up reason's functions and use the program to it's full capacity is to get a midi controller keyboard, this will give you a lot more functionality and freedom over what you can do with the program. 199613[/snapback] nine inch nails and air also use reason....air did a whole album on reason though i can't remember which one it was, oddly enough the propellerheads didn't use reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cubicidal Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 How would one go about creating the 303 sound in Reason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest djnemo Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 How would one go about creating the 303 sound in Reason? 201830[/snapback] You should not try that. Its as far as I know, pretty impossible to make a decent 303 sound on those synths. You can rewire it to ReBirth though, thats as close as you would get with what you want (to do it with Reason I mean). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalDyk Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 I totally agree with the original poster about Reason. I have been using it for sometime now, and I have come to the conclusion that you can't get "great" sounds out of reason unless you export the audio and work with each track individually with eq, compression, and even reverb and delay. I think all of the FX, EQ's, and compressors are garbage in reason. I like the scream though, but I'm not sure if you consider that an FX or not. I have actually compared the quality of my tracks done solely in Reason, and the ones that I have exported the tracks individually out of Reason and into Pro Tools, and there is not even a comparison in quality in my opinion. I kind of use Reason as a scratchpad now for my songs. I love the interface and the ease of use and how quickly I can write in it. I can usually get the majority of a song done in one sitting. But now I am exporting everything and working in Pro Tools. The Waves plugs that I have for Pro Tools are incredible and really make a huge difference in the sound. Plus working in PT allows me more flexibility with the audio, being able to edit the actual audio and go deeper into EQing everything. Reason is cool, but I do think the fact that it is an all in one program hurts it's strength in certain departments, mainly that being sound. I have also started using synth plugs for Pro Tools which I love now. I think the stand alone synth plugs sound so much better and bigger than the reason synths. Eventually I am probably going to ditch Reason altogether because of the incredible new features and support that Pro Tools has for midi and plugins now. The new Pro Tools 6.7 has an incredible amount of excellent new midi features. I highly suggest Pro Tools to anyone who is thinking about buying a sequencer. I love it, and it sounds so damn good once you really get to know how to use it and get experienced with audio engineering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmithabaBuddha Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 i´ve traded Fruity Loops for Reason and Reason is even much better , with those synths i dont need VST , and if i need i will Rewire it into Cubase VST32. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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