ouroboros

roxios go back. get it. fixes everything. virus. system crash. lost data. boot problems, whatever. worth its wieght in gold.

hehe...in case you missed it (cuz im a dope and got all caught up in my other train of thought) the question i was posing is -- why are there more minimal recordings being produced when it seems that people want more melodic stuff?

thats a good point mescalinium. i would like to pose a question concerning that issue. first i need to set up the "assumptions" of my question, i fully realise that they are assumptions and will gladly accept any comments that disagree with them. 1. ok my first asumption is this: almost all the people buying this kind of music are people who listen to it on a regular basis and have some knowledge of it. i say this because goa is not (however we may all think it is) a major musical style. that is to say, its no where near as popular as rap or hip hop or (ugh) country, or rock or any oth the other stuff thats on mtv all day. it is a relativly small genre with a loyal following. thers no goa cds (maybe 3 or 4) in a virgin store or a coconuts or wherever regular people by mass pruduced music. its hard to find. 2. the labels are small. even the top 5 labels together in goa dont come close to even smaller labels in other genres (waxxtraxx for instance) let alone major labels like capital, columbia, or sony. goa labels are run by people who actualy listen to the music themselves...so they also have knowledge of it. 3. labels want to make money and stay in buisiness.....well duh. 4. labels put out what people buy. (not the other way around) so with those in place it would seem to me that a lot of people who listen to goa are buying thse recordings...and its not because its what the label puts out...its the other way around. the labels put it out because it sells. and the people buying it arent just a bunch of dopes who will buy any old thing shoved in front of thier face, theyre people wo like goa already and activly seek out goa music (as we know..its hard to get). believe or not..most people have never heard of infected mushroom or simon posford. it seems strange to me that there are so many people speaking out against "minimal" and complaining that thats all thats available, and yet labels are making money off it and making more and more. why is that? because the people complaining are in the minority..as is usualy the case. the people who like "minimal" dont say anythig about it cuz they dont have to..theyre in the majority and things are looking good from thier point of view. im not trying to start a fight, or say anythoing about which is better....im just stating reasons why it seems there is so much more minimal being produec than melodic...its because that what people want to hear. if they didnt want to hear it, they wouldnt buy it and the labels would stop producing it..its simple buisness theory of supply and demand. the damand for minimal has gone up there fore the supply has gone up. anyhoo...thats my theory..i dont claim its correct, but it does seem logical.

check out sun project and skazi.

see, thats what i mean.. i totatly respect that reply mike d. you do find some value in minimal. its good to see that. i have read a lot of your posts and you always seem so down on minimal, but if you like some of the minimal that you mentioned, isnt it possible that you will like more in the future? there is absolutely nothing wrong with having a preference. we all have preferences, if we didnt we wouldnt like anything at all. hell...sometimes.... im not in the mood for trance at all. sometimes i want to listen to frontline assembly get in a pit and beat the living hell out of poor unsuspecting kiddie moshers...thats not very goa like of me at all now is it? but hey....we all need variety. if you like pleasant melodies then by all means thats exactly what you should listen too. just realize that others like other stuff and let them have it without insults. ya know...just like a lot of people here think minimal is boring and repetitive....a lot of people think goa and trance in general is boring and repetitive, it just doesnt jell with them. but we would all get pretty pissed off if someone who likes hip hop only started telling us that the music we listen to is crap...wouldnt we?

hehe.....thats why were here and theyre there. or something like that =)

i love both i prefer minimal but i listen to melodic as well. i think people are doing a diservice to themselves and to the music to not listen to both. they each have something to offer. i really think its closedminded to say that minimal isnt goa just because its not what goa used to be. music evols and changes. its like saying mozart isnt clasical just because it doesnt sound like bethoven. granted mozart isnt the same style of clasical...but its still clasical just the same. i think that mike d up there hasnt really listend to minimal (that is not a personal attack mike d), especialy if hes going to say that atmos is a "knob"....who "never played an instrument" that statement is just silly.

hehe....i just went and read the other forum. im not so sure they entirely understand. but thes only 2 responses so its to soon to tell. it is interesting though, that was a good idea spirit dancer. i dont mean to sound judgemental, but it seems as though that forum is for regular "rave" stuff. while i believe that this sensation we are all talking about is possible with any music as long as you can make that connection...i dont think to many people there will really understand what were talking about. i fing that goa/psy as a genra is a bit more mature and complicated, im not convinced that epic trance or club trance can really do it...i dont think its designed to do it....its for dancing. goa is for a lot more than just dancing. i think there is a certain maturity needed to appreciate goa and have this "moment" happen...and im not talking about peoples age, just state of mind. i think maybe the people in tht forum...if they continue on a path of discovery will eventualy end up leaving that behind and moving on to goa...it seems a natural progression. im not trying to sound like a snob, i just think thats the way it is. like anything else there are levels of quality...im not sure how to explain it. i just think that kind of trance is "entry" level, then you move up. maybe im wrong.

ok...this is getting out of hand. yes they guy is phenominal..no argument there bbbbuuuuuttttttttt........ s.p is certainly not best sound engineer of all time. im going to have to split that award between walter/wendy carlos (shame on you for not knowing who that is) and pink floyd. im not going to tell you who walter/wendy carlos is go look it up =). i will tell you though that quite literaly if it wasnt for him/her none....and i mean absolutely none of this music we love so much would be possible....i mean literaly...it would be physicaly not possible. and im pretty sure that effect strumpling is talking about is a slicer...thats not so hard to do.

its all about the basic menthol 100's ahhhhh minty fresh

damn! i wish i could smoke pot =( ill try it next time a eat a jell. or roll....or both hehe. (if i can remember that is)

hey vasyachkin, depeche mode and delerium eh? wow...i dont much listen to dp, older stuff is ok...and delerium...do you know that delerium as actualy front line assembly? ever hear that track on planet goa (1 or 2 i dont remember which) called evil playground? it says its by f.l.a. its a frontline song. woohaaaa i may be married to goa, but industrial will always be my first love and eternal dark mistress. oh yeah...i forgott...simon p. yeah, hes cool.

ya know strumpling...come to think of it..i may hear a sort of woosh sound. although im not sure if i hear it..or if its a woosh. its kind of a backround white noise sound...and it sounds like its slowly changing pitch...and yet not changing pitch at the same time. is that anything like whay you hear? or maybe its just a slow flange filter on a high hat..hehe i dont know.

hehe i think i have done any two of those together, but not all three. ill have to fix that.

i know this might seem like a strange question, but i believe (i could be wrong) that we all like trance because of a feeling we get, that special moment in time when we connect to the music. its that feeling you get...the one thats the very reason you listen to trance in the first place. the euphoric high that you chase every time you go to a party or put a cd in the stereo. my personal phrase for it is (inside the belly god) i know that sounds dumb,but i never realy tell it to anyone else anyway, and the god reference is not religious it just fits. im just wondering what that feels like for other people. for me i dont get it most of the time...i still love the music, but that "feeling" is very rare. when i get it i feel this presence...and i have visions. its as though im looking at this infinite machine. its really a machine though...its everything. i mean it represents everything in the universe. everyhting all connected and working togher as a living unit. it has no consiousness, its not good or evil, it has been there since the dawn of time and will forever be there. and its always moving and changing but at the same time...completely constant (just like the actual universe). i know what kinds of sounds in trance trigger this for me, its why i love minimal trance, because this feeling is just not possible for me with full on melodic (note i said for me..im not knocking melodic trance). the solid kick drum represents the ever driving ever progressing and ever moving but always the same structure that its all based on. then there are the slowly changig synths. they represent the patterns of life. the sound the same..but are actualy changing, almost unnoticable..like the evolution of life. or like the life of the univers..it started out as the big bang and expanded eventualy it will stop expanding and will retract back to the same solid mass it started out as..only to explode again....repeating forever. then there are all the little fleeting noises that come in and out. they are like the little unpredictable events that happen...a super nova here a lightening strike there. when i get this feeling its like im connected to all things and all times i trancend everythig and see everything at once...its as though everything has bocome just one thing, a single entity and im completely enveloped by the etirety of the universe....thats why i call it inside the belly of god. wow...im not sure that even makes sense to me...but its the best way i can put into words something thts not able to be put into words. did any of it make sense? it doesnt matter. so...whats it like for you?

thnx khogg. and youre right they couldnt be any other way i think about that type of stuff all the time...how one seemingly insignificant event could chage your life. i strongly believe in chaos theory. at any given moment posibilities are infinite yet at the same time all past events led directly to the one youre at...the moment you are in is the only result possible given the events of the past...i cant explain it...i love the paradox of it all. this thread made me think of another question...imma go post it now.

wow....this is an interesting topic. its strange to try to remember what my first real trance album was. i think i may be a bit older than a lot of people on here (just turned 32), and i can tell you its been a long strange jurney to goa. hehe i wont give the first half of my musical life, sufice to say it revolved around pink floyd and 80's metal (iron maiden and stuff like that). i then started to listen to new age...kitaro, philip glass ect. i think the new age was the first step (well actualy floyd was..but i dont count it). then i met a wonderful girl who exposed me to industrial (thanks april...wherever you are). going out with her and hanging out with her friends i was also exposed to a lot of goth and etherial stuff...the later being very important in my evolution towards trance. for anyone who doesnt know etherial is stuff like dead can dance, this mortal coil, coctou twins..just about anything on the 4ad label. that stuff is closely related to new age, so my interest in (for lack of a better term) spiritualy expaning music was revived. now i was (and still am) all about industrial, and if you read the "what is goa?" section of this webste ( <---- loceted over there on the side) then you know a little about industrals influence on trance. so im listening to a ton of skinny puppy and frontline, nitzer ebb, and kmfdm....and i start listening to more and more industral getting deeper into it and coming across more obscure bands (obscure only in the sense that you wont find them in regular music stores...at least not at the time). then i came across a cd from laibach called kapital. this is some bizzar mix of hard industrail and smooth pumping techno. that really broadened my taste in music and i stated looking for stuff with a more technoish feel...but not techno. of corse i didnt know about trance yet...so i didnt know to look for it. and im the only one out of all my friends who listens to trance at all...so i had no one guiding me (which im greatfull for). one day i was shoping at a used cd store and i saw it.....this strange red cd. i still to this day have no idea why i picked it up but i did. i didnt even listen to it at the store..i just baught it. i went home took a hit of acid and hot bath. when i got out if the bath and the acid was coming on, i put the cd in my stereo...and it was all over. im not even sure if its considered "trance" or not...but i sure as hell think its trance. air liquide - red aquired dec. 1996 from there it was a short ride to goa. i like it here...i think ill stay awhile.

well... to each his (or her) own. it all boils down to personal expieriences. im glad you guys like the amazura, i just cant stand it there. i agree 100% that the synth-sad crew does an incredible job...i love thier parties. im probably not going to this one, only cuz sat. night isnt good for me, however much i dislike the amazura, id still go. i disagree about the crowd though...it was the same bunch of people at roxy as at amazura as at tsunami (its always the same bunch), no one seemed to be at the roxy just because it was there. the security at roxy seemed pretty average as far as security goes. im glad you guys never had a problem with them at amazura....but i have and i know a lot of other people who have, why do you think the flyer makes a point of saying its a new crew? because they got too many complaints about the old crew thats why(but like i said....its the same crew). anyway...its all a moot point. go... have fun... party safe. ill catchyas at wizzy noise.

in my opinion....its just not possible for goa to be "scary". dark..yes. but scary?..uh-uh. if you want scary go listen to skinny puppy. if you want down right frightening try diamanda galas if you want absolutely terrifying....listen to the swans albums filth and greed. the second two are completely undanceable, but very very good. and skinny puppy...well its skinny puppy.

i actualy heard (so i dont know for sure) that its a dj set. theyre not playing live.

wizzy is not playing live i hear. i was told its a dj set...but who cares? its wizzy =) as far as syth-sad goes....i would stop 90% of my bitching if they would just open up the chill out room. i can avoid the security and i can smuggle in candy, but i cant stand not having a chill out room...its just stupid. i know they have one there...ive been in it. the tsunami new years party flyer i got just said that info will be comming.

well i thought i was gonna go...but now i dont think will. the amazura is the absolute worst ever venue. there is no chill out room, and no where to sit other than the floor, and not much of that space either. the security people are a right bunch of fucking assholes (my friend went into the bathroom, she took a piss and was thretenend with being thrown out for washing her hands) dont bring any lolipops, candy, mints, gum, or anything else cause theyll make you throw it out. and by the way..they have had on the synth-sad website that the security is new for the past 6 months..it aint new. i will admit that the dance floor is nice and big and the soundsystem is pretty good, other than that....its @!#$. they should go back to the roxy...now that place was nice. anyways..heres the info if you want it: Saturday December 01 2001 Doors open from 11pm till 9am. Line-up: The living trance legend, indisputable maestro of tweakage, and probably one of the most amazing musician on the planet, is back to the big apple. Also cofounder of the mind-blowing Twisted Records and the main knob-twiddling half of ambient sensation Shpongle, this unprecedented talent greets us with his very-latest live performance: HALLUCINOGEN (TIP Records - Twisted Records - UK), LIVE! Here comes the latest project of Benji Vaughan, the trance wizard behind Process, also collaborating with Simon Posford on the magical Younger Brother tracks and performing live for the 1st time in NY: PROMETHEUS (TIP Records - Twisted Records - UK), LIVE! TIP Records' father, through his uncompromising work as musician and Dj has been hugely responsible for the world wide development of trance music. Also signing of his magic the Shpongle's project, and after setting fire to the South American scene, here is the mad: RAJA RAM (TIP Records - Shpongle - UK), One of the French scene true originator, releasing since the early days on labels such as Dragonfly, Matsuri, Blue Room, TIP, and many others and still touring the world with his new project Antidote. Also the founder of Totally Eclipsed Records, Serge from the legendary: TOTAL ECLIPSE (TIP - Blue Room - Dragonfly - France), One of the leading psy-trance talent in the NorthEast, Brian's unique style represents the new American generation in trance. Also cofounder of the Growroom Records, our resident is undeniably heading right to the top: KALYX (Synthetic Sadhus - Growroom - USA). Decoration: The most important psychedelic artist to this day, his work represents the true aesthetic heritage of India melted with his charismatic vision of psychedelism, pure visual blessing: BRAHMA (TIP Records - UK). Projection by: ATOMIC JUICE (NYC) Top Location: Conveniently located by all public transportations and major highways. AMAZURA BALLROOM 91-12 144th Place, Jamaica, Queens New York Featuring a brand new licensed security crew! <---- thats total bullshit Direction: By Subway - Take E, J, Z, to Sutphin Blvd Station. Walk down Archer Ave for 1/2 block following the tracks to 144th Place. Make a right and you are in front of the Amazura. By Long Island Railroad - From Penn Station, 1 stop to Jamaica Station. From other points take it all the way to Jamaica stop. Walk down Archer Ave for 1/2 block following the tracks to 144th Place. Make a right and the Amazura is in front of you. By Car From Manhattan - Take the Queensborough Bridge / 59th Street Bridge to L.I.E. to Grand Central Pkwy East, to Van Wyck Expwy South, to Hillside / Jamaica Ave. Exit, travel on service road to Jamaica Ave on which you make a left. Go strait to 144th Place, make a right and the Amazura is at the end of the street. From Brooklyn/Staten Island - Belt Pkwy to Van Wyck Expwy towards the Withestone Bridge. Exit on Atlantic Ave and make a right, follow on Jamaica Ave (and follow above dir.) From Bronx and Westchester - Take the Withestone Bridge to the Withestone Expwy to Van Wyck Expwy to Jamaica / Hillside Ave Exit and follow the above dir. From Long Island - Take the L.I.E. to Van Wyck Expwy South (Kennedy Airport) to Hillside / Jamaica Ave Exit and follow the above directions. From New Jersey/Pennsylvania & all points South - Take NJ Turnpike to George Washington Bridge to Cross Island Expwy to White Stone Bridge to White Stone Expwy to Van Wyck Expwy to Jamaica / Hillside Ave Exit and follow the above directions. From Connecticut & all points from North - Take the New England Thruway to Throgs Neck Bridge to Cross Island Expwy heading towards the Withestone Expwy to Van Wyck Expwy to Jamaica / Hillside Ave and follow the above directions... Please drive safely

ok a while back i posted something about wizzy noise playing in nyc, i couldt confirm it though. now i have confirmation that they are playing. i sent an email to demitris from wizzy and i asked hime..here it is: Hello We will be coming to new york early december yes > hello, i have a question. i heard that you guys were coming to new york > early december. is that true? i cant find any info about it. i was told you > will be at the limelight, but they dont seem to know about it. could you > clear this up for me? thnx well short i know but he did say yes. i still cant confirm for sure its at limelight...but i do have this email i got.: Friday December 7th NY, NY Psy- Fi Productions (Psychedelic Fiction) Wizzy Noise (Greece) Domestic (Israel) DJ Zion (Israel) Yon-E (Tsunami) DJ Niko Tickets will be $25 in advanced and $30 at the door. 18 and over from 11pm to 9am @ Limelight dont call limelight and ask though....i just did (again) and they said they dont have the schedule for that week yet and to call back. anyone one else have more concrete info please post it. thnx

my god did this party suck ass. absolutely the very worst tsunami ever (and i was at the crap party at bb kings). now im not gonna blame it on infected not showing up. ill give you the reasons 1. music was lame. yep lame lame lame. yon-e played a few cool tracks, but there was no consistancy or progression through the set. 2. music was lame. tristan....what in the hell was he doing? it sucked. i love minimal..and i didnt really hear much minimal..like the two people above said. what i heard was boring psytrance..which i guess could sound like bad minimal. i dont know..it was just crap. now i will admit that i leaft before the end (around 6ish)...as i just couldnt stand it anymore so i didnt hear the end of his set...but still..why do we have to wait till the end of the night to hear some good music? 3. vinyl. ok i remember old tsunamis at vinyl and they were fantastic...but tsunami is too big for that place now. it was way way too crowded..i go to dance and when theres absolutely no room to dance it sucks. tsunami has realy been doggin it lately. huge amounts of time between parties and then when they do have them theyre not too good. whats going on over there. sythetic sadhus has been getting better and better (except for the fact they went back to the amazura..a truly horrible horrible place) and tsunami is getting worse and worse. what happend to the days of mars 2112 and the world..those were damned good parties. and i have a beef with them letting people in for 25 bucks instead of 30...big deal we all could have gotten in for 25 anyway with the stupid print out from the website. if the main attraction doesnt show up (infected) take 5 off the price with the flyer. whew! hehe do i sound bitter? i dont mean to sound like whiny brat...i just needed to vent. the whole nite was a bust. im just very dissapointed with tsunami lately. i still love them though and ill still go to all the parties they have. and my last gripe is...sythetic needs to go back to the roxy. that was the best place of all. fucking amazura....i know so many people (at least 15) who refuse to go there cuz it sucks so bad. why wont they open up the god damned chill out room??????? i still havent made up my mind if want to go there or not. hey brandon....were you the guy from bayside?

hey Moo.... 242 eh? well if thats the case i got a question for you..... how many god damned remixes of hedhunter do we freaking need????? whats next...you gonna resurect bing crosby and elvis presly to do a very special christmass headhunter remix? ha! just bustin chops =)