Guest Mike D Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Ok, I wanna get my opinion out. Yes I do love the original and somewaht true goa sound of 1993-1998. BUT the music now is just as amazing. Take The Delta and X-Dream, C.O.P, Tarsis etc. All damn good music and all very psychadelic. Remember, the world is a much smaller place than it was ten years ago. People and artists no longer rely on Goa as their influence. They have started using all their worlwide eperiences and have come up with more amazing sounds. I think the new school of psytrance now is just as exciting and is juts as close to the excitment of 1993-1998. I do prefer alot of the older music and miss it alot, wish I'd been born 10 years ealrier in some wys, but I also cannot wait to see some of the top minimal type acts this year live. I am already losing sleep with the thought of X-Dream, Planet BEN and Organinc Noise Live here in Melbounre on June 9th. It is a very recent awakening I have had, and it makes me even more proud to be a part of this scene. Keep up all the good work all the artists, at least to me each damn song you produce is something special, and I like it. Peace to you all dudez and dudettez, I am in a damn good mood tonite hehe :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insejn Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 hey man! You got me happy =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Setsuko Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Mikey is wright , but i noticed it too ... the psytrance scene is so insane . the progressive/minimal psytrance released has influences from everywhere (techno , electro , house) but then all these mixtures are to me a grown up version from what he original stands for... i still can't get enough from this progressive psysounds ... so groovy , catchy , massive quality ... i mean i'm even more addicted then i was a few years ago ... this scene is still so special , i like it ... in all the musicgenres i've been digging this is the one i'm most interest in ... i mean , doing research ... folowing the latest releases ... man i love this scene ... but it's sad so many people are so narrowminded and do not appreciate the influences and progression the psytrance scene is going through . i also like the oldschool goatrance very much . but the scene nowadays is much more interesting imo.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest --==MileS==-- Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 I do not agree. I still can't see the appeal of Goa/Psy increasingly sounding more and more like conventional Techno whereas this scene always was about being different. Hence, the prime charm of Goa/Psy for me was that it wasn't like techno or trance, which I always found a little flat, mechanical and boring. Sure, I do appreciate loatsa new stuff like the latest Delta, X-Dream, Son Kite but its not the thrilling musical hybrid I was hoping for...I rather call it regress than progress. The techno scene offers clean and sober bass, beats and synths and the persuasive trend is more heading towards stripping than adding. I kinda miss the colors, the fuzziness, the weirdness...Furthermore, what is the absolute minimal killer album? Where is the Posford of minimal? I haven't heard any exceptional must-have albums in that genre. Sure, the 10/10 are flooding in the review section but I simply don't hear whats so damn good about it...My spin ratio is 1995-1996 Goa : techtrance 5:1...its just a tad too much like the formularic techno stuff that has been around for ages...I am simply not impressed. What is far more interesting imo is the emerging UK Psy-Ambient scene where experimenting with new sounds from everywhere is the religion and not recycling decade old techno formulas... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bugbread Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 Ditto, MileS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kristian Posted March 29, 2002 Share Posted March 29, 2002 So very true MileS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisk Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 -- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest --==MileS==-- Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 Thnx for the feedback guys. Maybe I am a bit harsch about the minimal movement but I feel kinda the same way as Basilik: "its the sheer mass of minimal mush that really turns me off". I try to stay updated with the latest releases and with 8 outta 10 being the techtrance hybrid one might get a little critical. There are simply not enough minimal programmers that can deliver a "Where's my drum'', 'Standby' or 'Psychomachine' imo. I get the feeling that too many Swedish youngsters messing around with PCs in the attic can grab a luvrative deal, especially evident with compils. Its been 4 years(!) since X-Dreams trendsetting Radio album and still no real contender for my favourite minimal track "Psychomachine' emerged. Even worse, despite the progressive tag and the argument that the music constantly evolves not that much has actually changed. The new X-Dream for example is no progression from -Radio- at all, it actually borrows an awful lot from it. Not that I care, at least the Germans can penn down some well done tracks but the minimal scene isn't as innovative as people claim it to be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chong Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 Well I disagree with Miles and basilik The amount of quality releases amongst that "mass of minimal mush" is very high. I follow many different genres of music and I still think that there is a high standard of music and also production skills, that are being output from the "Psy-Trance" school. As Setsuko stated artists now are not bound by any genre, they cross-over to many different fields of sound - check the new Chilosophy (2) compilation for more info / or Amphasis' contribution to the New Entry comp......many many more examples In re: to X-Dream = I see a maturer and more advanced approach to the new album compared to Radio - Im not saying that Irritant is as "ground-breaking" or Radio was less mature in '98, but it is definitely a progression from Radio - it has a fresh, vitalic sound that is not from '98! What is the absolute minimal killer album? Where is the Posford of minimal???? I dont understand these questions!!!??? To u Posford is some sort-of king - I did like his music, but plz.......... I can ask u : who is the Arne Schaffhausen of Goa? who is the Sebastian Mulleart of Goa? I can also name u absolute minimal killer albums......"the colors, the fuzziness, the weirdness" it's all here, everyone sees things differently i guess. I was into the Posford/Mushies/Har-el sound quite a few years back, but I guess things have changed for me and I now find a "newer" style to be more appealing. There are many different options available. And one more point - this "tech-trance" sound (as its being pinned) does borrow from other styles, but so does "psy-trance" - both are a hybrid of a few different styles of music. This is what music does - it breathes, lives and grows. As Mr Ollie Wisdom said : Live What You Love! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike D Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 Psy trance is so much more a big mesh of every form of electric music than ay other tekno. Seriously, it is a big joke to say that old svhool is more original. I think you guys really do spend WAY to much effort treating Goa as the be all end all of music, wake up and realise it isn't! It is so narrow minded to stick to one form of music and say the rest are so terrible, what a joke! Grow up and expand your tastes. When you have learnt how good all style of music, not just electro music, are, then come back and tell me the more progressive sound is bad. And yes, I actually have about 200 cd's that are drum n bass to house to metal to punk to hip hop to classical on top of my 150 psy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest --==Miles==-- Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 The ammount of CDs doesn't say @!#$. I have 1500+ CDs all genres and around 1000 Long Players mainly 60s and 70s stuff...and yes I treat Goa as the end of all music cause that is what I like most...when I discovered it back in 1995 I knew this was the electronic sound i was looking for ... therefore I am disappointed that nowadays it tends to get technosized, a genre I don't really dig...I never said it was bad but its quantity above quality nowadays imo. Like I said I was hoping for a more thrilling musical hybrid with influences from more than just the imo limited technoscene...and if that means I am not openminded then so be it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 I must agree with Miles and basilisk on this one. Yes there are indeed good releases amoung the "minimal" acts but when a scene takes such a dramatic turn away from it's original ideas and turn into something completely different it is obvious that some people feel cheated :-) It is not a overstatement to say that 95% of all parties today concentrate on the minimal sound. I have comed to the conclusion that the scene should stop calling itself "goa" and "psy" (eventhough I don't like label music). Why? because the music played at most "psy/goa" parties got nothing or at least very little to do with psy/goa music ! Most minimal music has much more to do with pure techno and progressive house. I don't say it's bad but I find it very missleading when DJ's, promoters, bands and record labels still use the term goa/psy. Why do they do it? well it's obvious that some of them have a established name to exploid from the long gone psy/goa scene and therfore use the terms to keep their "old" fans interested! and the new labels just follow because they have a whole scene handed to them on a gold tray :-) I really don't care if bands and labels like this music better but I feel that the cheat people when the use a wrong term to attract people to buy their products! Anyway for me the ambient scene is so much more interesting, visionary and evolving :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kristian Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 I totally agree with Basilisk, MileS and Elysium above.. "I have comed to the conclusion that the scene should stop calling itself "goa" and "psy" (eventhough I don't like label music). Why? because the music played at most "psy/goa" parties got nothing or at least very little to do with psy/goa music !" So we should take this subject even further...: We have to be consequent of what we shall review on this site in the future. If we are about to publish reviews of minimal sound, then we´ll have to publish reviews of perhaps artists like Jeff Mills/Carl Cox and so on too in the future, the difference is almost nonexistant. Be consequent or draw the line before this minimal stuff or it´s time to stop it all. Me neither like to cheat people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chong Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 looks like theres a school of thought that seems a little threatened.... no-one is being cheated here... if u cant see a difference between Carl Cox/Jeff Mills and The Delta/Midi Miliz then i suggest u have a closer listen! We all have different views on life and music - I hope everyone is enjoying their choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 Chong If you had read my post a bit more "without critical glasses" on :-) you would have noticed that I do not at all attack the minimal music but merely explain why some people feel cheated. I for one do not at all feel threatned (I make my music as I please without feeling obligated to please anyone but myself) by any music or change but can indeed understand why people react the way they do. Some people feel that the scene that they fell in love with is long gone and that the drastic change in the music style and scene mainly is caused by a lot of "newcommers" that do not at all respect the "old" values and ideas that the scene used so many years to build up. It's not a secret that many (not all) of the "true" minimal lovers resent and reject the old goa/psy sound and think that most goa listener's are outdated "neo" hippies and that they should stay away from the parties and of course there are many go/psy listenere's that feel the same about the minimal lovers but and yes there is a big but here :-) When litteraly 1000's of people have fought so hard to build up a worldwide scene over the last 10 years or so I think they are intitled to feel somewhat cheated when they see a lot of young "newcommers" floading the scene and changing it within a couple of years. Of course I do not blaim the "newcommers" but I do think that too many of the established labels and bands saw a possibility to make some fast cash and without even thinking about where they came from and how much they actually should thank the "old" scene for their success they just shifted track and went on tehe minimal band wagon. Again it's up to them and their right to do whatever they want to - but please do not redicule the "oldtimers" that feel cheated - in my mind they are intitled to much more respect than they get these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kristian Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 Everytime I read some reviews in the review page I get a laugh. In here one can find records from X-dream, Spirillianz, Ticon and so on and so on... Then I look at the name of this page..: "Goa Reviews"... Ofcourse most of the reviewed stuff on this page has its' origin from the Goascene, but as said, much of it doesn't fit under this "label" anylonger.. Therefor I think people checking there is being cheated. It's time to split up the review pages in different categories! (It was not an intention from my side to "point out" Jeff Mills/Carl Cox above, just wanted to give you a clue of what I ment, sorry if I wasn't clear on this) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Setsuko Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 who cares ... apparently some of use do a lot .. btw , i get a headeach when i listen to pure techno ... progressive sound is not techno , it's minimal psytrance ... and yes EP it is very psychedelic .... even when there are house influences to be found in it .... and again , when is something psychedelic , whe there's a 303 sound in it ? is that goa .... anyway ... this war will never end ... just try to LISTEN to the music ... oh no wiat try to DANCE ... he he , minimal is pure psychedelic groove ... i'm out of here , i'm going to party tonight ... and i am so excited... PRISONERS OF THE SUN ...live in belgium tonight ..... jihaaaaaaaaa !!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JanUa Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 and i can't come :-((((((( setsuko dance for two ... !!! ...3ô... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Matta Posted March 30, 2002 Share Posted March 30, 2002 Yeah, I'm not the same person I was five years ago. I'm thinking of changing my name too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bugbread Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 I think the issue here is that new psy is psy-tech, and not goa. Generally they have very different listeners, though some like both. They both are included in the same overall category due to their origins, much as drum n' bass and happy hardcore are both "techno" or "electro" or "dance" (the definition varies from country to country, so if DnB is not "techno" where you live, I don't think that invalidates this argument). Both DnB and happy hardcore evolved from the same starting point, and slowly separated. As long as people still refer to the music they listen to by the overall category (psychedelic trance), there will be these kind of arguments, much as if someone said the music they liked was "hardcore", and then had problems with people on a hardcore forum posting about how awesome the newest DnB release was. This is why I DON'T usually say I like psy, I say that I like Goa. Psy includes psy-tech, which I despise. It's not that I think it's "cheating" or "stupid" music, but I profoundly dislike it. I also resent the fact that people think I should like it because it developed from the same starting point. After all, old Metallica and Dream Theater started from the same starting point (metal), and both are subcategories of metal (thrash metal and prog-metal, respectively), but I think it would be stupid to tell a Metallica listener that they should like Dream Theater or vice versa based on which one "evolved from" the other. Until people start using different terms for the two types of music, there will be problems. I know that a lot of people say that classification of music is "bad" and you should just "listen to the music". However, thinking about it reasonably, if we weren't to classify music into genres, this entire site couldn't exist. Without genre classification I'd have to read through billions of reviews of groups I could care less about to find something I'm interested in. Genre classification is a tool, and a convenience. It allows specialized sites like Psynews. It allows me to know what's played at a party with local DJs without giving up a whole night and hard earned money to go to the club and find out directly. Just because two types of music are related does not mean they are the same, and pretending that Infected Mushroom and Spirillianz are the same does no-one any good. And yes, of course, there will be crossovers and unclassifiable stuff. That's always true, in any genre. Mr. Bungle plays jazz, metal, ska, and noise. That does not mean that those genres are invalid. And yes, there will always be fuzzy, in the middle stuff. That's the result of breaking up a spectrum into discrete entities. Just like we separate the visible light spectrum into "blue" and "green" for convenience, although there are "blue-green" colors as well. So, until we come up with a semi-agreeable classification system, we will always be having these arguments, because everyone is treating two essentially different but related things as being the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wow Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 mr. bungle rules!!!!!!!!!!!!! if it sounds good to your ears, dance to it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Elysium Project Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 To setsuko: As far as I remember I never mentioned anything aboutb 303's which I frankly do not think has that much to do with goa trance (at least not in my musical universe). And to make it fully understood. I was not writing about my own opinion 100% (some of it is of course my opinion) I was stating how some people feel cheated and why they feel as they do. I for my sake do like some of the more progressive/minimal stuff but I also 100% agree with bugbread that this discussion will never until we split the 2 genres into 2 scenes. Afterall I am sure that minimal lovers would get very pissed of if they arrive at a party that promise them minimal and then they discover that the music is pure goa! I would like to see music less categorised but I must agree with bugbread that it's so much easier with the categories. - So I feel it's time now to make the 2 genres apart and create 2 seperate scenes! - just my opinion. Afterall most parties that call themselves goa parties has nothing to do with goa music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kristian Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 Exactly my thoughts too Elysium (Kristian:)). Hope Children will read this and do something about it. I for once, is more seldom returning to this site nowadays since I cannot find what I'm after because everything is mixed in one single categorie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phaeton Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 i personally wholeheartly disagree with the idea of psytrance splitting up in different scenes for its different sub-styles because for me progressive and full on are essentially about the same thing, which is the psychedelic mindstate .. it's just expressed in a different way, you often just have to dig a little deeper with progressive psytrance because it is more abstract .. and i don't even think it's possible to put half of all psychedelic dance music being released under these two style-names .. why limit yourself only to music that uses certain formulas that fit under a certain style if there's so much good music being made outside the borders of that style? what i like are parties where there's a clear flow in the direction the style is taking during the night, starting with some groovy hypnotizing minimal tunes and slowly evolving into faster full on madness and in the morning the more uplifting melodic tunes .. i really think the quality of parties would decrease significantly if we would have to limit ourselves to just one style, and to me it also seems impossible because of all the music coming out today that doesn't fit in either category .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strumpling Posted March 31, 2002 Share Posted March 31, 2002 even if psytrance isn't going in the right direction, we've got new, AMAZING chill-out/uncategorized music exploding onto the scene. No matter how we look at it, Mike's basically right: GOOD TIMES AND GOOD MUSIC are straight ahead!! -=- Matt/Strumpling -=- :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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