Prophecy99
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Posts posted by Prophecy99
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mood, context, effect so so much ! and context covers so many things, time of day, location, substances, dj style before, dj style after, festivals main genre vs sub genres, listening at home, listening while dancing, listening while working, all in context. there are days I love everything I hear, then there are days I don't feel the same instant enjoyment to many songs. breaks from listening are good, even pauses and exploring with completely different styles of music.
great points here, i like the discussions sub topics here as well. i need to evaluate Golden Times and Liberation as well ! i own both so it will be easy to listen and analyze. either way I can't wait to get some more acoustical treatments! =)
oh and yea breakdowns are a necessary evil to the trance state ! they are needed for that one moment (15-35 seconds) of rest and no beat, but there is a very fine line, as a dancer if a break down is too long which is very easy to be too long, it tends to be extra cheesy and you are just waiting for the beat to dance again. but no breakdowns you are desperately waiting for it to take a breath.
and @Imba I love your point about having soul into productions. i can relate to that! and I like your point about compromise, with what an artist truly loves and what formulas are proven to be effective, all in balance and in moderation! you cant have too much of one or the other.
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also note, Glitch has now more recently tried the phase align thing with voxengo pha-979, and he checked it with voxengo correlometer. (he didnt side chain but yea) i kinda wanted to ask him which he prefers now.
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don't forget the other work around b4 the osc phase retrigger as well, is to bounce one good rendered quarter note of a bass note and copy it that way to manually "retrigger" the osc , so to speak.
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17 hours ago, Imba said:
Phase should stay always above 0 because bellow it's antiphase. Finetune depth until everything is above, could be few places where it works and then you check it visual through oscilloscope. Sometimes i like to have it visual because ears can lie
This is last thing to do, make good bass preset and good kick, set velocity and volume sidechain on bass using LFO tool (explained in E-Clip tutorial), EQ it then check for phase issues. Sometimes you dont need to change anything, sometimes you do.
It's very simple if you know what you are looking for and what you want too achive. Maybe perfect kick/bass phasing isnt up to your taste or how you want it to sound but it's most correct way if you want your music to sound good and clean on big rigs. In my experience phasing can destroy whole track, it can eat too much of your mix on big soundsystems, it will become boomy or track will actually lose energy and could sound slower than it is.
Not just phasing, overlaping bass notes can destroy whole mix too. Overlaping kick and bass too. Thats why sidechain its important same as phasing. Balance must be good if you want to sound good!
roger that! =) thanks for your thoughts! i need to use the mfreeformphase and tweak that static line to fix that example, or are you only supposed to mess with depth? it seems like the drawing of the phase line would work too? because in that example it flip floped at 75 no matter what depth
and I am a big fan of the Xfer LFO Tool, i use it on every single bass. and yes I want my songs to be played on big rigs ! =) shouldn't we all ?
I am thinking of using correlometer to check out a pro song at a kick and bass break down and see how it looks as well.
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@MikroMakro thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter. I definitely agree on a lot of your points! At the begging, i really needed a way to check what I was hearing was actually good or not, and the visual meters/ visual tools really helped confirm and double check if what I was hearing was true or false. It also is like a nice piece of mind. And the marriage of Kick & Bass, no doubt they are coupled together and that can never be forgotten. I also agree with the listening aspects, sometimes I even ask to myself "can you dance to this", "is there a groove", "are you put in a trance from this", "is this trippy" etc. etc.
With all that said what do you like to use for bass ? I don't think you shared what Bass synths you enjoy or use? =)
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here is a quick vid of the MFreeformPhase + Correlometer combo in action.
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just tried the MFreeformPhase + Correlometer combo, how did your correlometer look? thank you Imba, for sharing Colin OOOD's tip.
heres a screen shot of best I could get on one quick test on an existing project, gonna try it on some other projects and experiment.
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^^^ @Imba I am definitely going to try that as well and report back, thanks for sharing that info ! , it would be a really interesting comparison doing that on an existing project/song and see how different it really sounds. and +1 on amazing channel - Dash aka Glitch is super helpful and has many videos ! He def has a dedicated serum video or two!
On 8/21/2020 at 5:42 PM, Padmapani said:i've never been satisfied with retro synth for bass. in theory it should be fine but the envelopes just dont sound quite right. es-1 is decent for that early 00s fullon sound, but not quite up to modern standards, esm likewise.
this is the best bass i have come up with in alchemy up to now: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cprz5ayyobf00t4/Alchemy Bass 1.acp?dl=0 . (alchemy presets are damn hard to find. in contrast to most others, they go into ~/Music/Audio Music Apps/Plug-In Settings/Alchemy )
i'd be nice to hear what settings you have found to work in alchemy.
here are the alchemy presets I found in some of my projects, and I randomly added 1 after the names too lol. https://www.dropbox.com/s/flhruaxaazc3w3z/Alchemy%20Presets.zip?dl=0
fair warning I have no idea how they will sound with a diff chain and diff effects plugins etc etc
I can send retro synth ones too but as we both said it sometimes (usually) needs more.
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thanks for that clarification, interesting find
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On 8/21/2020 at 5:42 PM, Padmapani said:
i've never been satisfied with retro synth for bass. in theory it should be fine but the envelopes just dont sound quite right. es-1 is decent for that early 00s fullon sound, but not quite up to modern standards, esm likewise.
this is the best bass i have come up with in alchemy up to now: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cprz5ayyobf00t4/Alchemy Bass 1.acp?dl=0 . (alchemy presets are damn hard to find. in contrast to most others, they go into ~/Music/Audio Music Apps/Plug-In Settings/Alchemy )
i'd be nice to hear what settings you have found to work in alchemy.
yes sweet, i will let you know how that patch sounds on my end, let me do some digging and find my best existing Alchemy Bass Patch =) , i actually was messing with it over the weekend and have a decent one from that too. also i know what you mean with retro synth, theres just some little something that is off or that it needs. with that said I have a few songs with retro synth and they are pretty nice!
On 8/23/2020 at 5:11 AM, astralprojection said:indeed, ive only really used single-cycle wavetables with these custom waveforms. ive no real use for a massive wavetable to cycle thru when i really just want a specific Saw sound. and drawing a waveform with the pencil is some of the most fun ive had in a while. and you learn pretty much immediately what part of the waveform "do what", and how to customize it exactly to what you want from the sound. im a little late to the game though, serum's been around a while now.
dune 3 like astral mentioned is really fat sounding, has tons of modulation and fx. i feel Spire gets easily outclassed these days by either synthesis - or sound. but for leads i still use spire alot cause thats really where it shines. 303, virus/nord like, 101, etc, it really makes it extremely quick to dial in a lead sound you want. i dont think spire sounds great for psy basses, it doesnt have the filter + envelope action you really want.... imo..
serum i would go for a custom sound, where i want the waveform specific (like a psy bass; ive found this type of saw sounding really fat, its from a juno i believe):
i also like to draw in some distortions here and there. really game changer for me at least, when youre really specifically after a certain tone.
i.e:
which sounds alot like the above one but its slightly off centered and even fatter.
so you have both Serum and Spire, any more?? =) it must be fantastic having more than one heavy hitter synths. and thanks for sharing your thoughts on the wave shapes.
22 hours ago, Imba said:Since i discovered and learnt Serum i rarely use Sylenth1. It's so precise and good with million options
!!! this is epic to hear =)
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thanks! i have been leaning on that one since i started this debate!, but man there's so many options and they all sound/appear sweet. but yea wave tables , they seem like all the talk w serum. =)
and that sounds wild, taking wave forms right from the source to directly emulate the sound. sounds like it couldn't get much more accurate than that.
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15 hours ago, Imba said:
I got best results from this tutorial combining rest of his... you can easily achive quality as is on Nano Records!
Thank you Sir ! i will definitely look at this one, and don't believe I have seen it yet but have seen other E-Clip tutorials. It's Serum too =) I think you said you mainly use Sylenth1 ??
Also I must thank you for your sample packs ! I have used them in all of my productions! You have been a great influence ! =) appreciate your posting here and sharing your knowledge ! I also have plenty of your tracks and am a huge suntrip fan.
13 hours ago, Padmapani said:you should try alchemy for psy bass. it probably has as least as much flexibility as something like serum, but that on the other hand makes tweaking more time consuming. i still haven't got it quite right but already like the results more than what i get from "traditional" bass synths like es-1 and esm.
I have used Alchemy ! and have found some solid bass from that, I need to look up what song I made that sounds really clean if it had bass from Alchemy or not. I found some decent bass from Retro Synth as well, but it always was like is there better =) yea i got one ok bass form es-1 but it needed more. and I gotta re look what esm was. Alchemy is extreme in its settings, and I have spent hours in that thing looking for bass and teaking it's setting to make it more psy =) I can post later what settings I went with in Alchemy if you want.
4 hours ago, recursion loop said:When someone says "psytrance bass" i think about the typical KbBB patterns, so I linked the relevant tutorials. Ofc, different bassline styles will have their own techniques and tricks but the core principles are the more or less same, when you hear a groovy, fat and clean kick/bass combo it means that there are no frequency conflicts and the phases are in good order, even if the producer didn't think about that at all and just did what sounded best to him.
I guess these tricks with visualisation are more useful for beginners and semi-amateurs like me, seasoned producers probably don't need that as they already know what sounds best and how to do that, and also have invested enough into their mixing setup to be sure that they hear things right in the whole frequency spectrum.
@Prophecy99 Glad you like Safe Travels, thanks
yes! definately, and plan to listen and revist that track again soon as well.
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4 hours ago, AstralSphinx said:
I would add Dune 3 to that list as well. It's particularly good at Juno-106 type sub basses. I do like Spire a lot, but I've noticed it needs more layering of osc to get the bass equally fat compared to Dune 3. So I'm often returning to Dune when I feel the bass turns out unsatisfactory on Spire sometimes. Depends of course on the style/era you're aiming for. Spire for sure has a more modern Virus like edge.
I'm sure though any of those on your list will do the job, as long as you invest the needed time into learning it inside-out. And focus on it fully, instead of jumping around too much between different synths.
Another factor to consider is which of these plugins you like the soundsets for? Some undoubtedly has a more popular following and thus a greater selection of soundsets available, if you're feeling that you need some inspiration/starting points.
Thanks for the reference I will update! look forward to checking that out as well. and i appreciate your advice on learning and taking your time. i definitely agree with that and have already started that way in my productions! Billy Cosmosis had a good video about that, if there are too many tools you can get lost in the options.
4 hours ago, AstralSphinx said:@recursion loop Regarding the phase align of the bass, that is only really a thing with modern plugins and some VA synthesizers like the Virus TI for example. It doesn't reallly apply with most old analog options. Unless you're gonna sample the analog synth and phase align the sample, but then I don't really see the point in using analog synthesizers in the first place.
Might as well get analog bass sample libraries then.
Sylenth1 was actually one of the first plugins I remember which gave the user so precise control over the phase. Prior to that it was mostly either osc sync/drift on or off. The Virus has the same degree of control over the phase aspect as well, so Sylenth1 probably took the idea from the Virus.
3 hours ago, recursion loop said:If we talk about modern KbBB patterns, the phase relationships between the kick tail and the first bass note, at the point where they overlap, are very important. It's one of the things that define the groove.
Ofc you have to use a synth with osc phase retrigger or a sample for the bass, an analog synth or emulation with free running phase is useless for that.
This video corers that.
This video should be standard issue to anyone getting into psy production =) definately have watched that a few times =)
3 hours ago, astralprojection said:and hard to do by ear!
an oscilloscope is probably almost necessary.
besides the synths already mentioned i use retrologue alot, since im a cubase user, and it has a great analog-like sound with snappy filters and envelopes, and kinda sylenth1 like modulation options. + an arp. so im pretty happy with it =)
man ! cubase is really sounding really nice, see a lot of reputable guys using it. im on logic now, its been pretty sweet though.
2 hours ago, Padmapani said:i prefer to do it by ear (only confirming afterwards with the oscilloscope).
with the oscilloscope it's easy to spot when it's totally out of phase, but the point where it sounds best is hard to find only with the oscilloscope (it's most often when kick and bass are mostly but not quite in phase) and depends on the exact kick and bass.
@topic
i prefer hive or zebra for basses. it's just so easy to get a good bass patch with hive.
interesting ! Hive2 does seem intriguing especially being a newer revamped version.
2 hours ago, AstralSphinx said:Yes indeed, but not everyone make full-on/prog/dark psy. There is a market for retro gear after all, and for good reason. Not everything need to abide strictly to the rules set up within parts of the psy scene. I'm sure there are plenty of artists/tracks which are great and new which don't utilize this. For most I think this is like psytrance bass OCD, since it will "not sound good" without this trick on a sound system at a party, which I don't buy. It becomes a brain ghost, where you will think the track will suck without it.
Rules are boring, and tend to limit. It's not the phase of the bass that will make or break a track. At least not for the listener. This is strictly stuff only producers notice/care about. And quite frankly I don't even think I would notice if I listen at home or attend a party. And in the end the tracks are hopefully made for the listener out there?
Think about it, who attends these parties? Often teens with no knowledge whatsoever about production/phase aligned basses.
Another good example is this, have you ever read a review here on psynews or elsewhere, where the reviewer complains that a track didn't have a phase aligned bass? I sure haven't.
And for goa trance I can assure you that this phase aligned basses is certainly not an issue
Bunch of old analog synths out of tune, out of sync and phase misaligned. Heck I'll even say it's part of the goa sound lol. But yeah since this is a thread about psytrance bass, let's all just get phase aligned and agree. 
i like your real world point of view on the nitty gritty of phase! =) hahaha yea lets agree it's a nice thing to do for fellow producers at least =) lol and i like ur point about rules as music is definately not supposed to have too too many rules, i look at it this way, (probably read it on production forums) you need to know the rules in order to break them =)
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4 hours ago, recursion loop said:
For bass I always use Sylenth + a processing chain that involves a multiband plugin, usually Saturn.
This tutorial has helped me a lot
But people use Serum, Massive, Hive, Trillian, Logic stock synths and whatever else they have. The psybass synthesis is very simple, the key steps are the processing, resampling and aligning the phase with the kick (the video above covers that).
Here's another video showing how to do similar bass in Serum
As for the examples of my basses, a couple of tracks with different bassline style, all Sylenth, processed as above
But I'm not really a pro yet, still learning and trying to improve my basslines. There are people round here who are much better producers than me and make awesome basses, hope they will contribute something too.
I tried to multi quote but new to this forum format lol. so I definately have watched that very helpful video from Bezonance ! super helpful. And yes been using stock logic synths for now. I found phase alignment was pretty nice through Xfer's LFO Tool, i was able to move it where ever it need and cut it (similar to side chain) in that tool. and thanks for sharing your examples! def sound very solid (w extra focus on bass to stay on topic) and Safe Travels is very nice! =)
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I am finally in the market to buy a nice VST Synth for the main purpose of making Bass (and of course anything else is a plus, like leads and atmospheres). Right now I am leaning Serum , because of some artists i love dearly are using it, it's popularity, its sound, and its additional features besides bass. But there are so many to choose from and I would like to hear peoples opinions or experiences with them, maybe even examples? Of course some artists I like I have no idea what they use for Bass so, I am trying to keep an open mind before I pick a path. Posting examples of Psy Trance songs and what synth was used for bass would be very helpful. With the cost of these around $150 - $200+, i want to try to get it right the first time. I have researched Psytrance synths on the web for a while, some references dating back so long. So i thought this thread may be a nice cohesive and current list for anyone considering a new vst synth for bass. Is it easy to get bored with just one? Do some of you ever get additional ones because you want a new sounds and colors? Right now I have been just using native synths inside my DAW and I am ready for something more ! Cost is not a deciding factor for me but to make this list more informative I added prices.
Here is list of Psytrance VST Synths that I found that are popular for Bass Synthesis.
Serum -$189
Sylenth1 - $164 +/-
Massive - $149
Hive 2 - $176 +/-
Bazille - $152 +/-
Zebra2 - $235 +/-
Spire - $189
Dune 3 - $168.87
Feel Free to suggest any I haven't discovered, and I can update the list. And I apologize if I didn't post any other obvious popular ones!
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oh dang ! this is nice ! thanks for sharing ! this is top quality from what I am hearing so far, and what I know of Dohm sounds already, and may try to write a review when done a proper listen
PsyTrance Bass Synthesis VST - Which do you like!?
in Music Making and Production/Industry
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random bump, but i finally put up some sound treatment panels in the studio! and hot dang ! incredible difference ! its really hard to describe, but night and day. i made 7.25" deep panels w 6" Roxul AFB batt with 1.25" gap 24"x48" mounted in 4 wall corners (i have two more panels very similar where i still want to decide where to hang). i am lucky that two of the corners actually are first reflection points as well.
last night was the first night I turned on the monitors. you basically hear the speakers first and only the speakers, not the room. anywhere you move in the room it sounds clean and not different like when there are no treatments. the sound of the bass is almost felt like when your at a festival. the bass is felt more. there is less of a cannned noise (untreated room),.
the sound sounds cleaner and slightly louder. it was a lot of work but so worth it. i am more than glad i did them. it wasn't that challenging to build but you have to have the time and patience and some decent tools.