Elysium
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But then again what do I know? It's not like I am a danish psy trance scene veteran, with classic releases tucked under my belt.
Well you dont have to be danish or a psy trance veteran to hear that this has a lot of references to full-on and Ibiza cheese and less psychedelic trance (chock I said it. No I dont find this much psychedelic). Of course this is according to my personal opinion and taste.
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This is a little off topic but. Elysium, I'm curious what do you think about Zenon label's output in the last 2 or 3 years and their minimal progressive, yet very psychedelic (at least to my ears) approach
and artists such as Sensient.
I just got Sensient's last album and heard it on my home system to expose all the intricate detail and really find it worthy mentioning as a bright spot
in today's sea of formulaic music.
This is a huge deal for me because I never was a fan of minimal styles. This however is something different.
Youtube compressed sound heard on PC speakers will not do it justice as I find his music to be really about the intricate details, but have a listen anyway:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJnYXX6BipI&feature=related
I suppose you might wanna choose 720p setting on Youtube bar below the screen to get as good of a sound as possible
Def. a cool tune with really deep sounds. But I really dislike the bassline here as well. It's just too boring IMO. I love tribal but where the basslines are more in the direction of old Shaolin Wooden Men or Psychic Warriors Ov Gaia. But of course that's a matter of taste really.
Regarding Zenon I think I replied to that on some other debate here a while back. Again their releases are cool when it comes to the sounds they use but the basslines are again, to me, totally boring. I guess they are equal to full-on basslines to me. Just in amore dark way.
Not my cup of tea really.
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Then "it all gone Pete Tong", but I do feel that the veterans of the scene, whose music inspired to make music today, are making an effort to get back to the spiritual part.
Who?
I want to see/hear it before I believe it. I am probably very sceptic but hey the recent 10 years proved to me that it's indeed "all Gone Pete Tong" I am also deep into House and techno but house far away from the trance scene as I think most of it is very boring copy-cat house and techno.
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My point is that he used to be fully into very psychedelic music. Probably the most psychedelic trance lover i have ever met. And here i am talking about deep grinding underground psy. Just listen to the older KoxBox and you get the picture. Then he moved to Ibiza, hooked up with the full-on commercial headz there and the result was the last CD which was far from being psychedelic and all about commercial full-on'ish trance with a small touch of some old KoxBox. The funny thing is prior to this release he told me the new release would set the bar straight and show those Israeli full on lovers how real psychedelic music is meant to be. And then he use boring predictable full-on basslines
Of course there is a small chance he now like those basslines but I seriously doubt it knowing his taste in music quite well (Otherwise his taste has changed completely). As I wrote I do suspect it's a matter of getting gigs at the big commercial festivals alongside his Ibiza friends. Just as any of the old-timers jumping on the full-on'ish bandwagon! It's all about getting paid - not about the music anymore. And if so then it's also a matter of selling out to the big dollar god
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I don't find them annoying, but when Ian was with Frank'e, KoxBox were writing the best basslines ever, proper pionner stuff.
My all time favourites being the ones in "The Great Unknown". Any how, Frank'e makes what he likes, and that's fair enough.
Peace out.
I suspect Frank'e to make music that will get him gigs alongside the Ibiza full-on mafia
The last CD and this is miles away from what he used to like and I seriously doubt he like these full-on basslines as he once told me he hated Israeli full-on.
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What's up with these annoying full-on basslines? When Peter and Ian was part of KoxBox the basslines was intelligent. Now it's just another Ibiza/israeli stereotype full-on bassline frenzy. The rest is quite nice but really nothing new here.
The only one that's interesting is "This Can't Be Real". The Riktam & Banzi Rmx is totally misplaced (and very standard boring techno/tech house IMO) and the rest is Full-0n with "heard it all before" sounds on top.
My personal opinion and 2 cents of course. But I am not at all impressed - so far.
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Wow, what a polar opposite opinion to mine. I've been playing this album a lot since I got it, and I don't hesitate to say it will be my favorite of this year, even with the year only half over. Every song on it "gets me".
Isn't taste a nice thing
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EXACTLY what I described.
So, what should we do?
- No contest, removing the chances for some artists to get some recognition?
- Organize a contest, but ban Suntrip artists from it?
- Just don't give a damn about your biaised negativism?
You don't have to be here you know Kristian. I respect you as an artist, but when it comes to initiatives and motivating people I cannot say you're the biggest support. Have you just read the title of this thread? Is it about Suntrip? No. It's about music, not interests or bullshit, just good music that was made 4 years even before Suntrip existed.
My point, is that Psynews was created by oldschool fans, there's a big base of oldschool fans that came and stayed, and incidentally some of these oldschool fans created Suntrip, an oldschool label. Not the other way around. Right? And still it comes as a surprise that Suntrip cds are praised by Psynews visitors. Wow Sherlock, WOW.
Throwing false assertions and catchy formulas like "suntripnews.org" is something easy for someone hidden behind his keyboard spending his days criticizing. But enough with that crap. When I think about how we kept things separated day after day, whereas we could have indeed used Psynews to spam, really, it hurts reading your fucking post. This is so biaised, so mean. An observation my ass.
Now I am publicly challenging you to find an evidence that Suntrip used Psynews to promote its cds more than any other label. And you better find cause I could be tempted to kick your ass from this place. Enough is enough.
Damn you guys take things way too serious. I never said you used the forum for your own benefit. On the contrary!! Read my text again before you start another swearing stream and accuse me of things I never said!!! Indeed it's your forum so if you want to kick my ass you are welcome (by the way what a mature way of communicating mars). But do lighten up a little thanks. My point was and is that the forum used to be way more broadminded music-wise compared today where almost every topic is about Simon, Suntrip and how amazing the new AP album will be even though nobody have ever heard the music etc. And yes that's just an observation like it or not. This is obviously because so many members left the place leaving this forum with almost only die hard old-school/new-school fans. That was my point. Nothing else.
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Other possibility: being accused of influencing the votes in case a Suntrip artist gets amongst the winners of that contest.
That you do not have to fear. They will be no. 1 no matter what. I often these days wonder why this forum is not renamed to suntripnews.org. Not because you favor your releases (even though you do have a own platform to use in whatever way you want to). But because the majority here are die hard suntrip fans (not many users visit here anymore beside those die hard fans). Not a critique just an observation.
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Funny to see some stupido using my nick
I predict the so-called off-topic will die pretty fast.
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I thought you and Jean own the rights to the song. Are you saying Flying Rhino still owns it?
The idea put forward was to release it on Ektoplazm. Why would a label that doesn't plan to release remixes any more care (unless it is
indeed Flying Rhino that still owns the rights to the original and doesn't want remixes released elsewhere)?
I kind of got an impression that you're the boss and make major recommendations and decisions judging by certainty
of your language in the previous posts and topics
OK fair enough. You don't like it and don't want your name to be associated with it.
It's your right to do 100%.
However, know this.
Some of the people that made those remixes are 18 and 20 year olds that did let their emotions get the best of them in their exchange with you in that thread, but also all of them seem to have treasured the sound of Trance Africa Express.
Maybe you don't like the remixes, hell I don't like the one I heard either, but many people do.
These guys were paying you a tribute by remixing the track, however clumsy the result may be and you stood in a way of it being availabe in its
full glory after entire thing was cancelled.
It's this community that embraced you. You've produced progressive and house, but those were never your home.
You were never accepted there and recognized the way you were in this scene. If I walk to a House party and ask people
chances are noone has ever heard of Holm and Andersen, but if I go to a Goa party some people will probably know of Elysium or Sheyba.
Your actions and decisions are alienating you from the community that, like it or not, is your home.
You and Jean could have changed it. You just decided not to. Again, it's your right that needs to be respected.
However, you seem to be concerned with the image and stature of Sheyba name that the "bad" remixes might ruin.
If you are,consider the perceptions of Sheyba name in the scene now that it's all set and done.
This is getting a bit too silly. I never understood why I have to stand corrected for my decisions in this community. It's freaking my life and my decisions and no one have the right to tell me how to think and deal with things. If you dont like the way I do things fine but keep your nose out of my life thanks! I am dead tired of some people in this scene for always being so "political" correct (read: we are oh so special and you owe everything to us). And no I dont consider any scene my "home". I make music the way I like it without feeling i have an obligation to fit in or that i own anyone anything anymore. I have worked my a** off in the music business for more than 20 years and frankly i owe most of the results to my self and my own dedication and passion for the music more than anyone or anything else. Furthermore you only know Holm & Andersen but I have made way more successful releases in the House and Techno scene the last 4 years that you dont know the first thing about.
You are totally misguided if you think "the scene" is a forum with 30-40 die hard new school goa fans. Just as isratrance is far away from being "the scene " too. Most people in the scene never go to these forums and could care less about these forums and the, drama, badmouthing and rumors. And even if this was "the scene" I am not sure I would like to be part of it with such a purist non open-minded view on music that's not "goa".
Really I am sick and tired of this debate about our decision regarding the competition and now where it seem to take a turn pointing a bit more toward me as a person and my music in general, I am done! You people never seem to quit! I hope Mars will close this topic as he closed the other one. Enough is enough!
As a final thing it's quite funny that most of the artists in this competition has written to me in private and dont seem to mind the way things went. It's only here things are blown way out of proportion!
And this was really my last saying in this debate. We have made our final decision. Disco Hooligans (By the way they registered here to make their statement but has not been allowed to post here) will receive another deal with us. End of story! Live with it!
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Alright, fair enough,no is a no and I accept you will not allow people to share their remixes this way.
Hope you won't mind providing your thoughts on my comments below (again no disrespect meant).
You are one of the few artists that embraces the free sharing of your work.
A bunch of your releases are freely available on your website and Ektoplazm.
I'm little surprised that you would not allow a release of remixes of your work to be available in the same medium as your original work and for no
apparent monetary gain.
And sure, maybe some of those remixes aren't the most innovative and you may not like
them as much, but let's be honest, today you probably don't think as highly of some of your early work as you did back in a day you released it, yet
you make it available (and I'm very grateful that you generously did so)
Again, no disrespect meant and I accept your decision.
You seem to miss the point:
1. I am not alone in Sheyba. We are two people and also a record label behind in this canceled competition that would have resulted in a release backed up by a certain label who also have a saying AND a very strict release policy (which we 100% agree with) when it come to quality.
2. It's the Sheyba name that has to stand in front of the remixes. And some we simply do not think are good, others we do not share taste with. Just as any other label or artist you pick what you feel is right for your label/release and do not release music you do not like/feel for or share taste with.
3. It was a remix competition where the winner gets released. The artists entering the competition very well knew if they did not win they would not get released. That's the whole point of a remix competition. Yes now it's canceled but that does not change a thing.
What I do with my own material as Elysium/Wombatmusic is a very different thing.
Kristian
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We already told what the artists can do and not do. I do not see any idea in debating this further. So to end this debate. It is a no.
It's really weird people do not respect a no but keep pushing it further.
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Posted 03 May 2010 - 12:02 AM -- 3 days after deadline.
All artists had been noticed that there would be a 2 week gap between the deadline to the announcement (as a e-mail reply when they submitted the remixes) and they were told immediately on the 2nd of may (Deadline was April 30) that the rules had changed. Furthermore we could not predict that only 8 remixes would be submitted. Most did not arrive until one day before the deadline. So please how on earth could we announce anything before the deadline? Actually it was very close to the fact that we would have canceled the whole deal because only 2 remixes had arrived one day before the deadline!
It's utopia to say we should have made a public announcement about a change in the rules before the deadline when only 2 tracks was submitted. We always hoped a lot more remixes would be submitted within those 24 hours as this is quite normal in remix competitions (and because so many had downloaded the remix package).
So it's not really fair to keep insinuating that we cheated the participating artists. And at the end of the day you as a label manager also demand a certain quality on your releases(or at least i hope you do) and I am dead honest when I say we did not think most remixes was of such a quality enough for us to release them. One was pretty close to the quality of Disco Hooligans but too close in style of Disco Hooligans style so we did not feel it was wise to release two almost similar remixes (style-wise). Do not forget we also have our name in this remix competition and who would ever release something they do not feel is of either a high enough quality of too far off taste wise?
And please do not twist my words now. I do not say the remixes are bad. I say we did not feel they had the certain quality we were looking for. And also they did not suit our taste. I think that's pretty honest and a fair answer.
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Posted 03 May 2010 - 12:02 AM -- 3 days after deadline.
Stop this sour grapes mantra. A group that worked hard and won a prize had it taken away.
Then give me another explanation why some attacked Disco Hooligans music? And give me a valid answer to why one of the complaining members when being confronted admitted if it had been a goa track winning the competition there would not have been made any complaints to the changes in rules from 3 tracks to 1 track. I spot double standards in the complaints and sorry i simply do not buy into any other excuse why people complain. It's just a cover up for why people are upset. Its as simple as I say. They are upset because not one of their favorites won. Not everyone of course. But those who keep complaining.
And as said the winner will still be released just under a slightly different agreement. So no one got cheated in our opinion.
We do not yet have a release date. It will be dealt with pretty soon though.
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so lets just say that if i use different lion samples and rerecord that mumbling mumbo jumbo man sample in my own voice (mimicing the words) and change one note to the midi bassline i wouldn't be making a remix anymore but an original track?
The one note change in the bass-line would still be considered copying the original bass-line as it would still sound too close to the original bass-line. The samples are not so much an issue to us as the original melodies and the characteristic bass-line.
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As you can see, I updated my post before you submitted yours. You cannot say that because I publicly congratulated Disco Hooligans before this story all started.
But I don't give a fuck to rules interpretation anymore. I don't wanna fight you Kristian, I know enough. I'm just saying it's FUCKING unfair to Disco Hooligans to scrap their prize just because of comments on a situation you initiated. You take a decision, accept the consequences.
Disco Hooligans will have another slightly changed deal with us so don't worry on their behalf.
And I am not fighting you mars. It just seem some of your participating member,s and surprisingly you too, do not understand basic of copyright laws. Furthermore some of them do not understand basic rules entering into a remix competition or simply did not bother to read the rules before entering into the competition (their own fault). I rather had been without this debate and all the complaints as we did this remix competition in good spirit and thought it would be a nice experience both for us and those participating. It sadly did not turn out this way. But when people start attacking us for our rightfully legal decisions and also point fingers at the Winner (jealousy and sour grapes attitude can only be the explanation to that behavior) then enough is enough. And do not forget that the artists have known for 2 weeks prior to the announcement of the winner, that the rules had been changed. Yet NO ONE complained here or by e-mail or asked to be withdrawn from the competition.
Only one complained (tripper) and he was not even participating in the competition!
I think you're right but I will further investigate, so that no more time and energy is lost.
Colin is 100% right and you should know that by heart as a label owner. No need to investigate anything but be my guest. It's already been cleared with our lawyer and copyright laws are indeed universal. Furthermore I have been in the music business for many years and know all these legal matters by heart by now.
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Yes, me, still. Your rules are juridically speaking a contract. A contract must always be accepted by all parties to be valid. If you change your rules, you must notify in advance, and make an addenum that contestants should formally accept. If not, then it's called a unilateral change of terms and that means the contestants are free to withdraw from the competition without being bound anymore to the contract.
What would you say if your house burnt, and your insurance companies told you they'd removed the fire damanges from the risks atfer you signed? you'd complain I guess.
In other words, right now, your rules are void and you cannot force anyone not to release or spread anything.
Nonsense! The grapes are sour here because a goa track did not win. One member already said it himself. Anyway end of story! It's our track, our competition so live with it. It's not the end of the world and as I pointed out. SHEYBA still own all copyrights to the original bass-line, original melody and samples. You as a label owner should know this as its basic knowledge.
IF no on complain when a so-called contract (its still not a contract no matter what you say - its a remix competition where the rules are set and can be changed by the organizer without anyone have a saying - except for a whitdraw) is being changed the participants has the right to complain or withdraw and the organizer has the right to ignore the complaints. They have no right to complain a good time after the announcement went public and when the winner has been announced. Sorry I dont buy into this issue and excuse at all. It smell of sour grapes because a goa track did not win. Simple as that!
And that's it from me on this whole issue. As we said. If we see any of the remixes being release or exploited without our written agreement we will treat it as a violation of our copyrights. Ask any legal expert on this matter if you still do not understand the basics of copyrights.
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It's with great sadness we have decided to cancel the Trance Africa Express competition. We thought it would be a fun and good idea to organize this competition. Not only for us but also for you. But after the amount of complaints and various accusations against us and in some cases disrespect and insults regarding the winning track, and that we changed the number of winning remixes from 3 to 1, we feel this is no fun any longer. The reason why we changed the number from 3 to 1 was because we only received 8 remixes (out of 500+ remix package downloads). It was simply not enough tracks for us to choose 3 winners. We also did not feel we received remixes, except for the winning remix, we felt was right for our release
We could have hired established names and not bothered to include any of you but we felt it would be nice to include you. Now we feel that it was a wrong decision.
When we changed the number of winning remixes none of you contacted us with complaints or asked us to withdraw you from the remix competition. Only when the winner, Disco Hooligans, was announced the complaints started and keep going as we write this email - all in all from a small group of the participants and their fans (mainly from the New-School Goa movement). We could of course just keep the competition going and ignore those who keep complaining but as we said. It's just no fun for us anymore.
So this is our decision and it's a final decision.
You are all welcome to use your tracks the way you like but it must be without our original bass-line, copy of our original melodies and the samples provided. In the case of any release (by yourself or a 3rd part) of you remix or exploitation of the remix without our written agreement will not be tolerated and will be seen and treated as a violation of our copyright. You are of course welcome to promote your remix as it is now on Myspace, Facebook etc. As long as you do not make it available for download.
It's really sad things have come to this and we are aware some of you are very disappointed. And again we want to stress that we really appreciated all contributions regarding of taste issues.
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OK, maybe I've pushed a little bit too far with this comment. I didn't make a proper introduction to the thing I was going to say and now I got you fired up on me too, which I didn't want of course. I have no clue in creating music, I'm sorry, you must be right.
And the remix was not (only) mine, it was the three of us actually. I didn't want to insult Disco Hooligans either, I already congratulated on their fair win. That was merely an observation of a producer who has no clue about music making, so I'm sure they won't get offended. Also, I'm sorry on behalf of the whole psynews community for being so closed-minded to your open-minded statements.
Take it as a man and face up to the fact you insulted Disco Hooligans and stand out as someone who think other peoples taste is "faded out". And yeah I also went a bit too far, I apologize for that, on the comment on your skills but really, I am not the one who wrote the things you wrote
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Why is it bitching if someone doesn't like the fact that Sheyba turned from top-goa classic to minimalistic style? That's like changing your horse for a duck. But yeah, it's all about "taste"... However, I must state that sometimes even the finest taste fades out. I have a friend here who also listened to goa in his younger days, but later he switched to full-on and stuff like that. He explains it with "a change of taste which comes with years". So, according to that, Filteria is still a child even he has 30+ years
What are you rambling about? FACT???? Sheyba turned to minimal? As far as I know we did not make any Sheyba tracks since 1998! And it's quite purist to put down other peoples taste as being faded out! It's such statements that makes me wonder how openminded some of you really are? Seem to me some of you only accept your own taste and see your taste as superior to other people's taste. This is, as i said earlier, not the spirit of the TRUE Goa-trance movement!
And why are you mentioning Filteria? What does he have to do with this debate or competition?
And your edited remark regarding Disco Hooligans remix is not only very insulting to Disco Hooligans and their skills. It's also plain stupid and must come from someone who got no clue whatsoever when it come to creating music.
I am sorry your remix did not win and that you need to put down Disco Hooligans and our (Sheyba) decision. But a good advice to you is. Live with it and stop the sour grapes attitude. It really does not suit you very well!!!!
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Also, you hold the copyright claim, I don't think anybody here could discuss that.
Seem that's a huge issue in this "debate". Some even seem to think they own the copyright to Sheyba's original material in their remixes
By the way Its interesting to see no one bothered to respond to what I wrote:
"I am pretty sure if it had been a "Goa" remix who won NO ONE would have said a word about 3 winning remixes. And no one would have complained
Just my observation in the posts where people complain. It's quite evident they are upset because it's not a "Goa" remix that won!"Would be nice if people would be honest about why they complain. Because as said before No ONE complained (or asked to be withdrawn from the competition) until the winner was announced
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I was just about going to mention this as well, it's what we call the 'potestatieve voorwaarde' in dutch law, and it it causes a lot of legal issues (let's say it's forbidden in 99% of the cases). This wouldn't have been the case if you had been more specifically about the circumstances under which the contract could change. Of course, there's probably hundred of other remix competitions with the same foggy and dodgy rules, but that doesn't make it any more legitimate...
I'd say article 9 should be read together with article 11, which has a way more concrete basis. Article 11 mentions the 'unforeseen circumstances' (while article 9 mentions nothing at all). Thus article 11 might be applicable here. Giving two of the remixers an alternative price is the solution!
And oh, a competition is clearly a contract too, there's a consent between several parties. Who told you that this aint the case?
Whatever you think you know. Peace with it! The bitching continues and probably will until the sun never rises again
Nothing you say will change a thing though. -
I am not disputing the winner remix. The rules were very clear and specific, binding both artists and organisers therefore not subject to opinions of any description.
This:
is a non enforceable clause due to being abusive. Put it simply, you cannot change unilaterally a contract and expect the other part to be held by it if they don't agree. This clause opens the door at changing the rules to "by entering this competition you transfer the copyright of all your past, present and future music compositions to us", to name one extreme example.
You have totally misunderstood what a remix competition is and the legal aspects behind a remix competition. Its NOT a contract! Its a competition with some very clear legal binding rules and remix material being used OWNED 100% BY THE ORIGINAL ARTIST OR LABEL. The legality behind the competition is indeed validated by a danish law firm (used by my record label the last 5 years and used in other competitions too) and the rules can indeed be changed by the organizer of the competition. The only contract that ever will be made is with the winner of the competition prior to the release of the remix. Read the rules again and also read the paragraph stating that any artist entering into the competition accept the legal binding rules and are bound to respect them!
Every participating artist had the right to withdraw themselves from the competition IF they did not agree to the changed rules regarding the number of winners. None complained or asked to be withdrawn from the competition when we announced the changed rules. Only after the result the complaints started
new school goa to chill on the summer beaches
in General Psytrance
Posted
This got absolutely nothing to do with New School Goa