Guest Kant Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 can anyone please give a brief explaination to me what´s the differences/characteristics between Full on and Psytrance are? it seems to me, that i can´t follow the discussions here in the board without this knowledge. thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dzsonee Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 psytrance is a bigger genre, full-on is a part of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest z Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 and also full on is not much of psy if u ask me :/ but i like it also:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 psytrance is the generic term for everything released by psy lables. So anything would qualify as "psytrance" from Shaolin Wooden Men to Astral Projection. "Full-on" is a term used for designating goa with a lot of sounds (melodies) which is used as oposed to "minimal" which has less sounds in it... and of course, purists (like me...) will tell you that nothing our days, be it full-on or minimal comes close to that complex mysterious oldschool sound... but that's a different story ;-) oh and if you want examples of genres, full-on would be stuff like Talamasca, 1200 Mics, Alien Project, Dynamic, Eskimo,... and minimal would be stuff like Son Kite, Shiva Chandra, Trancefeld, Ticon,... and oldschool would be older stuff released by Astral Projection, Total Eclipse, Prana, Cosmosis, Man With No Name... (ahhh, that's the stuff!!!). SMI²LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kant Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Thank you very much. Now i´m a little bit wiser i think :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Quazzi Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 "Full-on" is a term used for designating goa with a lot of sounds I have to disagree, IMO full-on focuses more on the pumping bassline and kick (usually >145 bpm) and fast percussion. And with somekind of freaked out psy melodie to make the track different from every other full-on track (there's not a lot of sounds going on). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 err... no, I'd call what you're describing minimal actually... If what you say is true, then Parasence would qualify as full-on??? I don't think so... SMI²LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Järsimähäiriö Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Well Parasense most definitely does qualify as full-on, if the two possible catergories for them are "minimal" and "full-on". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Quazzi Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Ok, then please describe me Talamasca's, 1200 mics and Alien Project's sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Järsimähäiriö Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Crap, crap and crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Quazzi Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Talking to lemmi jar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Järsimähäiriö Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Just tossin' in my 5 Baht worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kant Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 ok, very well , now i´m totally confused....either full on is near minimal or near melodical , but it can hardly belong to both styles... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 "Ok, then please describe me Talamasca's, 1200 mics and Alien Project's sound." duuuude, if you feel that these artists have a strong bassline and a little melody in the end, I STRONGLY suggest you re-listen to them!!! OK, maybe Alien Project is different, but Talamasca and 1200 mics are FULL of melodies!!! But I don't ask you to take my word for it... Just listen to any of the "Full-On" comps released by Hommega (they wouldn't have called it full-on if it was minimal...) and tell me what you think. OK, compared to oldschool, even today's full-on is lacking melodies, I agree, but it certainly has more melodies than minimal... SMI²LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lepton Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 for me full on and psytrance are allmost the same (beats, bpm). The difference 4 me lies in the feeling: full-on :positive happy music where psytrance is the more darker/ twisted side. full-on : silicon sound,talamasca,all isreali powertrance psytrance : aciddance,parvati, apoxina,shift, penta,psysex, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 OK, now I'm confused too... SMI²LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Järsimähäiriö Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Could we conclude that these categories are extremely subjective and differ from people to people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 yeah they are subjective but there is a minimum of objectivity in them... NOBODY could say that Son Kite and Talamasca have almost the same sound... SMI²LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Quazzi Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Talamasca is full of melodies?! I don't agree, but i'm ok with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 then you really should re-listen to some of his tracks dude SMI²LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RTP Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Mmmh ... okay. I think the "Full-On"-stuff is the one which focuses on fast bass and decent hi-hats, there is often melody, but the "bouncing-factor" is the main thing (that's this "skudeldidel, skudeldidel" stuff with the "bam bam bam" of the bass and the "zak zak zak" of the hi-hats in the background and several other psychedelic sounds mixed into the whole salad, on the whole a tasty combination ... sorry, but I'm into sounds today :-) ). But 1200 Mics - Hashish is IMHO also a full-on track, tho it doesn't only consist of that hi-hat and bass and skudeldidel things. Full-on is pushing, driving and loud! Even Son Kite are full-on, I've seen them live and they were PURE full-on (at least that what I consider as full on) ... totally different compared to the sound of their tracks. The "Minimalistic"-stuff is IMHO rather the calmer one, but it's far away from ambient. It's usually a bit slower, there are much less synth effects - AND (that's the main thing for me) the "zak-zak-zak" hi-hat isn't there, at least it's not so pushing. I'd consider Atmos, Box Of Frox or Noma as minimalistic. Talamasca, Alien Project, Silicon Sound or S-Range are the ones I can't classify, at least when I've got only the two categories above to pick ... because Talamasca or Alien Project are more psychedelic than full-on (their sound doesn't focus on pushing beat, there's much more sound, much more effects, buildups and so on), 1200 mics too (fuck, now everything gets messed up as I said they are full on above) and Silicon Sound and S-Range are not classifyable because there are both rather full-on (Pure Reality / The One for example) and rather minimal ( 0,68 Secs / Morning Star for example)... Just my 2 cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest maxi Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 uhm... i would rate alien project as (todays) full-on, and, s-range should not be qualified as other than morning trance. todays full-on cant be compared with the old style. why? cause there not a single argument why it should. it is totaly diffeferent styles. the old school full-on is old school goa with a 'series' of sounds and melodies. in reality... allout of sounds (melodies and beats at the same time). new full-on, couldnt care much less.. just try alien project, eskimo, gms..zz :I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemmiwinks Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 well Kant, I suppose you're even more confused now than when you first asked the question well, to confuse you even more, here's a copy-paste of an older post of mine in which I attempted to fully classify today's psytrance: "here's my list of "sub-genres" (not perfect, you can always find flaws cause any clasification method is bound to show its limits, but like Aaron said, I find it good to say what sub-genre a person likes so he/ she can find CDs he/ she likes more easily) morning trance: well, there are 2 categories in there... sub-subgenre 1 is the "real" morning trance as purists would say, rather slow BPM, never above 120 and very relaxed airy feeling, with a lot of nature samples. examples: Feuerhake, Kode IV, Zorba, Bodh Gaia, Element, Son of the Light, 1200 Micrograms - Ayahuasca... (this is also what comes closts to the "original trance" that was played in Goa in the early 90s) sub-subgenre 2 (my favorite!!) , (also called israeli-trance cause most artists making it were from Israel, although this is changing now) is more dancefloor-oriented, the kind of music that's played in parties when the sun rises: fast, between 130 - 150 BPM, usually very emotional and "catchy". Usually you go home from a party having that tune in your head. Examples: Yahel - Last Man in the Universe, Chi AD- Eye am the I, Astral Projection - People Can Fly, Zorba - Datora, Space Tribe Vs. Electric Universe - Alkaloid Experiement, Transwave - The Rezwalker, UX - Masters of the Universe, Ra -ROM, Dimension 5, Man With No Name - Teleport... (you can probably tell by the tracklist that this is what was usually called "goatrance" around 1996 by record labels that thought they coined a new "hip" term) 3D Vision-style/ Full-on (called like this because the label "3D Vision" specialized in this kind of music, but then they were copied by many labels): fast 140- 150 BPM, melodic but more harsh-sounding, more on the agressive side of things (and some would say "more E-oriented"). Examples: Talamsaca - Come On, Absolum - Drumatrix, Nomad, GMS, Alien Project... Minimal/ Psy-tekk: more techno-influenced, a lot less "challenging" then the other styles, more bass-driven. This style hit us around 1998, and some loved it and considered it was a welcome change to the usual melodic stuff, others (like me...) found it had nothing to do with "psy". Untill this year, about 80% psy releases were minimal, but this is changing now. Anyway, that doesn't mean you can't find artists that are doing good stuff... Examples: X-Dream - Radio (the one that started it all IMO), Kopfuss Resonator, Shiva Chandra - Gecko, MOS - Drive,... Nitzhonot - Well, most people will say this isn't really psy... it's done mostly in Israel and Greece and it sounds like kids playing around with cartoon-samples and melodic psy ideas, but not something very coherent. It's sorta like melodic/ israeli trance pushed to the limit of commericalism. Examples: Eyal Barkan, Holy Men, Cyan,... Industrial goa - Harsh, dark-soudning goa, with distorted noises, fast, indsutrial-inflenced. Examples: Battle of the Future Buddhas, Tim Schuldt - Single Collection, Ka-Sol,... Finish trance/ aussie trance/ Psyharmonics stuff: (called like this cause most artists doing it are from Finland/ Australia/ or usually release their stuff on the labe Psyharmonics): Very wierd trance, with a lot of crazy and innovative ideas, very random, doesn't seem like it's "going somewhere". Some love it, others utterly hate it. Examples: Texas Faggot, Haltya, early Space Tribe, Shaolin Wooden Men, Loopus in Fabula, Odd Harmonic... ... well, there you go, this isn't perfect, but it will allow you to clasify about 90% of the releases out there..." SMI²LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest djcl.ear Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 On a broad perspective. The term FULL-ON was early(1994-99) used for Psychedelic trance when it was fast, "full tilt" freqs as opposed to slower, mellower trance, and this was long before the minimal concept was applied to Trance. It seems that for some people it has recently began to be seem as a subgenre... It was not a subgenre, but rather a category(like an adjetive) inside Trance to help point out the "energetic" and dense character of the music played. Of course, it might get to be a genre in itself, if enough people agree so it beguins to SHARE a meaning...Judging for the posts above it might be far from that. Even broader in scope, the same happens to the MINIMAL word; it is a qualifier and defitively not a subgenre. If you look closely, this category can be applied to any genre, so you find MINIMAL Trance, or Techno or House or Ambient or whatever style. This can be further demonstrated if we acknowledge that qualifiers usually show a range, an arch or degree of possibilities, so a track can be more MINIMAL or FULL-ON than others. Hence MINIMALISM is just the other pole as related to MAXIMALISM(note that Psytrance musicians can utilize both qualities on their albums, and on a few weird trips even inside the same track¡¡¡). As also a CD can have a FULL-ON track next to a mellower one, both from the same musicians and on the same subgenre. On the other side, I cannot think of a track being FULL-ON and at the same time an slow track. Interestingly, it was 1999 when several local Djs and would-be Djs gathered in several meetings to share ideas and views of Psytrance. On a day we decided to differentiate between Psychedelic Trance sound subgenres, grouping them by the different sound and elements. We came out with over 26 different substyles¡¡¡ Psytrance usually being so creative and complex, then it has scope for many distinctive elements in the music. These differently composed layers and sounds have to be simultaneously taken in account at the moment of the mix. ...Making mixing a much difficult task than what a regular House or techno Dj does, in which bare or simmilar sounds or layers can be added without much interference... ...Making harmonic mixing much more relevant... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khogg Posted September 7, 2003 Share Posted September 7, 2003 Well, many good points djcl.ear, but back to the original question, these days I think the term full-on really does have a widely used and understood meaning. Generally, it seems to be used these days to describe the new brand of psytrance that uses that astrix-like baseline and combines it with a few catchy melodies (or bouncy sounds) to make a really energetic dancefloor friendly track or album. I'm talking about artists like Astrix, Atomic Pulse, Melicia, Dynamic, Safi Connection, and so on, and so on. In fact, there are countless albums and artists like this out there now, and the sound is very recognizable and distinctive, and until this sound became so popular, I think it's true that full-on was used as an adjective to describe a track or album that was "full tilt" and very energetic and maybe even a bit crazy without neccessarily being from any one particular recognizable sound or style. So what are the differences between full-on and the rest of psytrance? Well, listen to some full-on (it's very easy to tell most of the time), then listen to various non-full-on psytrance and you will see. Full-on is always energetic, uses "that" baseline, may not be that psychedelic, tends to feature a lot of dramatic quick breaks and builds and peaks, usually isn't that complex, and usually makes the dancefloor come alive. Psytrance that is not full-on may have some of those characteristics but not all of them, but it can be hard to categorize sometimes. It's all so subjective. I agree with Lepton: full-on is stuff like "silicon sound, talamasca, and all isreali powertrance." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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