MikroMakro
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Posts posted by MikroMakro
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I think it would be sad if the forum closed despite being used less. We cannot know or control the future, there is a chance there is a mass movement towards, not away from forums in the future.
May I ask.. how come the gigging artists of the scene do not come an invigorate a forum that would be in their interests to invigorate ?
Their absence is quite loud.
We can all say we have no time. We prioritize and make time for what we like and what benefits us most, as is natural.
Like many genre specific forums there are the fans side to discuss music and producers sub forum.
I believe one factor for the production side is that making psy trance sound as a top level production is extremely difficult, we may as well not lie about this and it takes long term practice and dedication. It can be disheartening, I bet 95pct give up and even if you pay for the courses available it does not make a great track for you.
Maybe some big producers will see this and they could spend a little time to engage and support something that will be missed if/when gone. Even just a little personal presence, not giving away their top kick and bass secret sauce. Just saying hello once in a while.
In any event things go where they go, we cannot control all.
In life a little spreading of bets is no bad thing.
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If I may expand ?With kick and bass and I will focus on the above Psy bass is interesting in that the perception changes depending on the listening volume. The human ear is not linear in its frequency response, look up fletcher-munson equal loudness contour curves. The ear is less sensitive to lows and highs at low volume which evens out as volume increases. This alone means even changing volume changes the timing perception of the kick and bass. And why kick and bass is such an interesting psychoacoustic effect.
The kick and bass above is interesting as it almost speeds up and down depending on what is playing. Most psy kick and bass has this phenomena.
This kick and bass is somehow not 100pct quite timed correctly, as some young whipper snapper on Youtube will no doubt tell you it is not perfectly phase aligned. However it has a ambiguous falling forwards feel (something coming a bit early) so it propels the track well.
Also your perception of kick and bass changes as it interacts with other sounds in the mix... a mono kick and bass can sometimes start to widen and sound pseudo stereo even if it is mono due to stereo mix elements interacting with the mono kick and bass (often ping pong delays on leads and effects) and also the phase and harmonics shifts (filtering) from lead sound interactions.
The timing and "feel" of kick and bass is affected by the listeners listening volume as you ear becomes more or less sensitive to a different harmonic partial of the closing filter sweep. That is why i believe it creates such an interesting effect, and why it persists in the genre, it is because it is very very interesting to hear. In addition unless you are right between L and R you are getting a time delay between 1 side of the speakers and the other (or more if quad stacks +) so when you move around the static nature of the kick and bass is filtered by the distance / time delay / phase relationships from L and R speaker stacks changing as you move around.
Most producers of psy trance will know when they have a cool section that sounds good to the ears but may start to retard in energy. It can lose forward momentum, a tricky problem to resolve.
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Cool Staffan, I have played these vids and they are great. The first track of video 2 is very haunting. MWNN and AP used that same
Choir pad sample (or synth).. I have been wondering where that exact pad choir sample came from.. in this instance T1 of Vid 2 the slower attack on lower notes suggests it is a sample (sounds like just being pitched down which gives its own haunting feel). It might have come from an Emulator sampler (earliest one) I did try and track it down to use and follow in the greats but failed. I found sampels like it but not actually that one.
Listening is like another life time right ? Time travel almost, in your own ears/head.
Back then the freshness was mysterious, there was a touch of darkness there as well. It reminds of Goa 96 getting a "Motorbike Taxi" back from Anjuna at midnight after failing to get in the with crowd, just groups sitting on the beach (in front of the legendary Shore bar).. and finding where a party if any was going to happen. I stared into the sky above the Arabian sea and felt very alone... content in paradise but kind of alone.
Big things happened the days after though that changed all that. So when you are feeling the emptiness (even in paradise), it may only be days before light shines again. It's hard to remember that sometimes.
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I have a wacking great knowledge gap kind of 92-94 on Goa trance. I was listening to other stuff at the time. I did go to what was called a couple of "Goa Reunion" parties in London probably 92-93-94 at a guess, cannot pin it down, went to a NYE's one all nighter in E. London round the back of Mile End road. I learnt much of the deeper trance history only over the last 7 years. There was so much going on musically around that time period, many new sounds and genres evolving, even birthing.
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MEGA THINGYS - Boing boing boing boing boing 👌 I have yet to hear a kick and bass that gets me like this one...
to me that's as close to perfect as it gets. Aaardvarkk comes close for me though as well he does some killer trouser flapping
bass lines. Proper wibble wobble, wibble wobble, jelly on a plate bidness.
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A possible candidate ?
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For a modern take Outsiders are no slouch to a good 303 ish melody.
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I know they are Goa trance gods but am not very familiar what their tracks, probably to my shame. I know Transwave, Astral P and MFG a bit better.
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I am not very familiar with Filteria's music, I gather he is Neo Goa hardware based and very melodic just like old Goa. Cosmosis always seemed to have a groundbreaking before his time sound back then. He is a very easy chap to hear speaking, a very mellow voice.
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thought I would share as I like to see what Cosmosis is up to from time to time, Ultravibe, sorry corrected spelling
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Jaaaa Jaaaaa Jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa ! Fun track.. 2 choices..
Harsh, watery and sibilant..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amun881JSdU
Or worn vinyl vibes and mono : (I think this was called New beat as the style, lots of Belgian techno/electro style stuff made it over to Goa as far as I understand)
This inspired my track Tanzen in Raum Und Zeit a bit, one of a handful.
There is a lot of it here if you like the general sound.. Tanzen Tragic error in the mix and better quality...
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Thanks, well you know, you have to make judgements and make a decision. Given the original post was 2012 it seems ever so slightly late, which is a factor.
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I wrote some thought but was not sure to post them in the end. Sorry.
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Lunarave has a new album out in the last 2 weeks. He does this "doubled up" basslines (not sure if it a delay added or some kind of duplication but it gives the bass a different feel), which is a little unique, technically that loses a bit of punch and immediacy - it blurs the bass note transient definition - , but that's his style and he has a strong style I have respected his work since long ago and his early music as well. It could be some delay based psychoacoustic effect, I recall this plug in sounded a bit like this effect when I tried it on bass line:
https://www.tone2.net/akustix.html
One of my favourite artists, always done his thing, not followed others, unique sound for psy which is not easy. I get a feeling he has musical training or understands theory as his compositions suggest, that adds another dimension as well.
I am enjoying it so far, there is some sublime melodic work on the first track of the album. Worth a listen ! "The edge of life" Some nice cinematic and synthwave melodic synths in the mix.
I just bought the album to show some love... as this is big work he has done, complex music for complex times in which we live, sad, beautiful and powerful.
Something I like is he has never been afraid to do is keep the kick and bass motoring and that has a deep cleansing effect ! It cleans your head right out.
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Tristan produces the "thing" very strongly... at Curlies 02:49 onwards and it keeps going especially 03:01 onwards... to see people loving it like that is it, those moments. That's why we like it : ) I don't any other music that does it quite like psy trance and Goa. That bass line grind is great.
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Guest X was a prophet 😄
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Well this was a wonderful thing to log into and see ! And especially to hear 2K was kicking up dust in the birthplace ! I am in communicado with Draeke at this moment via email. I appreciate the wonderful comments.
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Third time lucky ? First try, forum ate my post, second I could not articulate myself. I think for some it might be almost sacred, special moments impossible to convey. I have special tracks I like but rarely did I hear them dancing. I find them and enjoy them at home. I often I have moments dancing and it is as much the people around and the track, mostly I have no idea what track is playing, the name of the track might have a place after the time has gone.
Let's rest in those moments unhindered by thoughts.💭
We can also hope maybe the best is yet to come, it is a difficult thought but we can always hope.
This track towards the end with the ambient style arp had a big impact on me just relaxing with sound system playing at 25pct one morning. I think he waited a bit too long for that touching part towards the end, great track though.
There is one thing though which I am a bit saddened about and have to mention. I am missing beauty and melody in modern psy and I wish it would reappear. I almost never remember sound effects alone. Anyway in the end we can like it or lump it I suppose.
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12 hours ago, Otto Matta said:
Me too. The greatest "thing" in the entire genre, and it lasts for such a short time. Maybe that's why it's so special.
Another of my favorite "things" is in Astral Projection's Enlightened Evolution, starting at about 4:05:
04:05 yeah that's some true Goa feelings, I could imagine people going completely zoned out and smiling to that section. Thanks for sharing.
Thing with goa and psy once you are in you are in. It does something other music does not. You may wander and do other things but when you need that feel not much else hits the spot.
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Yes the thing that does it for me I think is that octave up bass note against that rising filtered arp, the bass line is also grinding nicely at you.. it makes a special feeling.
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Yes that is pretty much what I suggested, but it was quite literally from my head in a moments typing. Store that as a preset, listen carefully and consider if it is good or not compared with other types and variations of tempo synced delays. Some settings will work better with your track than others, that is your job as a producer to work out what is good an what is not. All the best with it !
Get the delays spatial effect in the stereo image nicely balanced against the definition and presence of the main lead. Adjust feedback, the send level, that is what mixing is all about. Get the balance right that sounds good to you. And listen to different leads from different tracks to try and judge if your sounds are approaching some similar qualities. That is a good way to learn. There will be variations but good track mixes will all have a good sonic balances that don't wander far from good taste.
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Ok let's go there others can follow and maybe learn something.
With compression you need a goal. You also have to know what a compressor can do and what it can resolve.
In short I do not personally use a compressor on every channel and I do not use one on the master bus either.
I use a compressor when I hear there is a need to make a dynamic adjustment. So one potential use if I have a sound that is being filtered and it sound like it is escaping the mix a little and becoming to loud in some section. I will play over that section, then set the compressor up to reduce the peaks by something like 3-4dB this will hold that section in place. Sometimes you may need to automate a fader of course as part of routine mixing.
Compression can perform multiple tasks, it can keep levels in check, it can change a sound character a little by making it more punchy (when set up extremely cautiously) it can smooth a sound out and it can change tone over time. It can also make the average volume of a sound more consistent .i.e increasing and lower level sections in an otherwise changing volume musical phrase or part.
So we don't add compressors without a reason. They are not a tool that instantly makes things sound better. They need setting up and tweaking for a pre determined goal.
I am not sure about psy trance producers at the top levels but my gut feeling is they probably do not use a master output compressor. Master bus compression can react to new sounds in a mix unpredictably, that is not something that relates to psy trance as typically it is a genre of control. It might sound free when you hear the track completed but the work that goes into it is about as controlled as modern music production gets. It is super produced and takes great care of details.
Arguably in Goa trance compression was used VERY sparingly, in part because a studio at the time may only have had 2-3 stereo compressors available, in some cases no compressors would have been used. This may account for some Goa/Psy Trance mixing differences. Goa is allowed to rip a little more..it is less refined at least in the old days, neo goa probably has taken a more modern approach and there are greater dynamic and tonal controls to keep things smoother.
If you listen to original 95-99 Goa trance you will hear a very wide range of mix styles as they were not pinned into position with 100's of dynamic and tonal processes, many automated, which comprise a modern psy trance mix. So you will hear harshness from time to time and splashy effects and a rather unrestrained tonal and dynamic movement.
I will leave you with an extremely important point. Always ensure you match the make up gain by ear once there is gain reduction so you can hear the effect of the compressor on the audio rather than just a drop in volume. Avoid automatic make up gain and do it by ear using the bypass button. Compressors can make things sound worse as well as better ! So whether you are using one for control (ultimately reducing the volume of a loud section) or compressing for punch, smoothness or character, always match up before and after volume otherwise you don't know if it is better or worse. Then once you know it is better you can set the make up gain to the correct mix balance level for the sound you are working on, if it is to be used to control. (and hold for example the peak crescendo of a lead sound at a specific optimal volume)
It can take a long time to understand compression fully, it's a long path of repetition and reinforcement of good habits to learn it well.
Some compressors, classic retro compressors with valves and specific electronic design have a secondary function which we will not consider now (some have a tonal characteristic which can change the tone whether they are compressing or not)
If you want to progress seriously you need to do a few things. Discern what good references are, have exceptionally good monitoring and acoustics and be willing make each track you make with a view to active learning. Otherwise you will making it close to impossible to improve in a reasonable time frame.
Accurately level match everything by ear that you are making reference comparisons with.
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I always found this track to be quite archetypal for the Goa Trance sound. It ticks all the boxes and could be a useful reference point for the old days. It is not constrained by automating every last detail like Psy Trance is, which is fine I like that too, but it's allowed to be a little more free. It's nice and warm, borderline muddy actually and has not been EQ'd into submission for loudness alone (none of the lower mids have been sucked out and probably few High pass filters, if any) and the leads and delays are a little free sounding, dancing around a bit.
By not draining the lower mids out it balances any slightly harsher filter sweep moments and balances out. Though on this particular track the upper mids are not pushed forward anyway. It is a very pleasant listen, soft on the ears and there is surely a time and place for that.
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It's better already, for myself anyway, kick has weight to it. Sounds like a different bass line as well. Making music is a long ride, enjoy it.
I am checking the media player under Audio Goa, I presume that is the track.
Situation Update 2024 - and a question for the future!
in Off Topic
Posted
I may have this wrong but it does seem many here are rather Goa Trance focused, be it classics or neo Goa etc. And that is fine by me though I like modern as much as old. Less people discuss modern trance. Maybe it is these 20-30 something that are on social media more. I suppose one can achieve greater attention on social media if that is what you need.
Personally I find social media generally to be a vast drain of my energy and psyche so I feel much better not being on the usual platforms.
People use it as a business tool as much as a personal share. I don't think it would be much to ask for a few movers and shakers to post a little.
Thin skinned ? Well I suppose that might be an issue but surely people are a bit stronger than that. Scene success will surely overcome a few anonymous internet moaners. Maybe on social media say FB it is easier on artists as the only people who visit your page are people who like what you do. There you have to active seek a specific artist where as here it rather broader than a single page set up for yourself as an artist.
Anyway you can only lead a horse to water as they say. Whatever happens I hope it stays online.
I suspect a lot of artists come by for a look and never post. It will be, what it will be.
Moderation is quite important, that cannot be denied it takes time to do that properly. i.e. allowing people to post opinions but without extreme behaviour which is a turn off for all. Moderation can make a forum a good place to be or a place to avoid. I would like to have hoped that there would be some mutual respect between members. It can be difficult with a mix of anon and non anon profiles, anons spouting their mouth off with little regards and with luck non anons representing their actual selves. With forums it can be a difficult mix to handle.