Guest russ Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 a lot of people seem to getting worked up over nothing these days (see the "crappy releases" thread below), and it always generates into mud-slinging over taste, which can never get anywhere. let's try a different angle. simply put, when x-dream released radio, it was a wake-up call to all trance artists that the stakes had been raised. that was the bomb that fractured the scene in my opinion. radio opened up a new world of production for trance. there had never been anything that fierce and fundamental before. all of a sudden other music started to sound fluffy, and even silly. you could go on making the same goa after that, but you were going to feel a little silly doing so. of course that didn't stop a lot of people from putting out a lot of music that hadn't evolved, and from a lot of people buying a lot of tired same-old, same-old cliched goa tunes, and there's nothing wrong with that. if making this music makes you happy, do it. and of course radio also bred a lot of lame-ass, uncreative knock-offs that sucked, but good music always does that. look how hallucinogen inspired the scene in the first place. to me most "goatrance" is simply somebody trying to sound like hallucinogen and failing miserably. but if listening to this music makes you happy, listen to it, and stop wasting time complaining about music you don't like. if we all wrote threads detailing every track/artist we didn't like, there wouldn't be a server large enough to hold this forum! it's just a fucking waste of time. grow up, for chrissakes! i am always amazed by how irrational people become when they discuss the old goa style in relation to the new style of music. when these same people dismiss the music of Son Kite as unimaginative, uncreative, unpsychedelic, "minimal" trash, i really have to shake my head in disbelief. of course you don't have to like it, but you should at least be able to appreciate the meticulous craft and care that went into its composition/production, and then decide whether it's your cup of tea. if not, just chill out and move on down the aisle. there's something else for you for sure. tastes differ. but to dismiss music, any form of music, for being a "type" (in this case "mimimal", which to me is a strange word because there is nothing minimal at all about it) is childish. in my opinion the best music coming out today (by people like Son Kite and the Iboga crew and Antix and Bitmonx and Double Dragon) is so exciting, that to dismiss it completely means that: either one) you are uncommonly deaf and/or listen to music thorugh a pair of computer speakers, or two) there is a block somewhere in you mind which instinctively rebels against this kind of music. i don't want to be rude, so i will rule out reason 1 and go for number 2. people tend to have very intense experiences when they first encounter trance music. the combination of hearing this powerful form of music, outdoors, on psychedelics or e, in a tribal setting with a tribal crowd, can be mind-shattering and life-changing. it seems that for a brief moment you have stepped out of the banality of our age and reached a place inside that you subconsciously knew was there but which you had forgotten. and the experience can remain equally strong for a surprisingly long period of time, even years. but as with every human activity, the brain soon gets accustomed to it, and the rush is no longer as steep. now for me this is where things start to get interesting. it easy to get swept off your feet by something totally new and unexpected, be it goa or the girl with the long beautiful curls that lay by your side under an eclipse. it is much, much harder for something to keep your attention over long periods of time. to do that, not only does the artistic medium have to evolve, but you have to evolve along with it. but just as nostalgia makes you treasure past experiences, nostalgia also makes it difficult to form new experiences. in this sense, nostalgia can be destructive; it sets limits and boundaries by defining the present and future in terms of the past. i think this explains why people can become so irrational, violent, and abusive when they attack music they don't like. when i hear someone shout "I am sick of this @!#$! This music sucks! It is not the same!" I hear a voice behind that is saying, "I am not the same, and it makes me angry and sad." most people who don't like a form of music tend to stay quiet about it, and that's how it should be. lots of new music today bores me to death, and i won't bore you with a list of names. but those violent few who curse and rant and rave and attack and scream and shout with expletives and exclamation marks, I think you are talking about something else. i think it's time to grow up and let go. let things evolve as they might. there is nothing worth getting bitter about. at the very least, try to transform "bitter" into "bittersweet." bittersweet does not have the same taste of exctasy, but is an interesting and powerful emotion nonetheless. things are different. isn't that sad and wonderful? the process of inital enchantment to tireless evolution is repeated in almost all aspects of our life, from love to study to work, and it is a challenge that needs to be faced on a cyclical basis. when we get tired of evolving, that's it, we die. it's more interesting and fun and far less stressful if you twist and turn with it. if you insist on staying bound and tied to one position, like Odysseus lashed to the ship's mast listening to the tempting song of the sirens, you are going to a life of torture, of desire unfilled. that does not sound like a pleasant place to be. by the way, the girl with the long black curls that glowed with green globes and danced and swayed in slow motion in my very trippy eyes, she cut off all her hair. the gorgeous girl now looks like a boy. and i still love her to death. we're not the same, it's sad and wonderful, and i wouldn't have it any other way. --russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kristian Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 I agree with you at some points. That: "nostalgia makes you treasure past experiences, nostalgia also makes it difficult to form new experiences. in this sense, nostalgia can be destructive; it sets limits and boundaries by defining the present and future in terms of the past." This is very true, I can see "normal" people in my hometown, always needing a second dancefloor with 80-90 hits, for them the nostalgia is also destructive since they think of the new kind of music like techno/trance being nonelistenable. For me, I grew up with synthmusic like Kraftwerk, Laser Dance, Moskwa TV. 1994 I discovered trance which had everything I had ever wanted, filters with lovely melodies, intense and powerful. At the same time synthmusic stopped evolving so I easily went for the trance scene and 1997 was for me the greatest year with the following releases: Green Nuns Of The Revolution - Rock Bitch Mafia Hallucinogen - The Lone Deranger MFG - New Kind Of World Pleiadians - IFO Tandu - Multimoods UX - Ultimate Experience This is the year of 2002 and I'm still out for melodies and synthetic filters. Where can I find them? Nevermore in the trancescene that´s for sure, since there are almost never melodic trance releases like in 1997 released nowadays (and the stuff that is released today is much too clubby for my taste). Some months ago I had the opportunity to listen to some of the todays synthmusic, and boy was I surprised! It´s so very influed by the techno and trance elements today and has evolved to something incredible beautiful... Maybe some of you, who also appreciated the good old melodic goa would like this too? Give it a try (and be open minded for the vocals!): http://apoptygma.eu.org/ http://www.synthetic.org/a23/ http://vnvnation.com/ Theese are my favourite synthbands with strong techno/trance influences... Finally, I think the melodic trance scene will in sometime come back, ofcourse with a new sound that some of us guys like me will appreciate again. I sure hope so anyway. Only time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest --== MiLeS ==-- Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Nice and excellent post but as an old skewler I have to somehow disagree. Indeed, I kinda rebel against the new style since I think heavily borrowing from the techno scene is not the way forward for 604/Psy. Why? Because, for me, 604/Psy was THE alternative to techno/conventional trance back then, it filled a void for people that liked their music served more deep, more spiritual, more melodic and more psychedelic than the clean and sober techno which was certainly around in 1995. If I wanted technoish stuff there was plenty of stuff around back then to check out, I choose 604/Psy instead. What I am saying is that a lot of characteristics that people attracted to 604/PSy in the first place are stripped nowadays. Throughout the years, my music taste has changed indeed, ranging from the Beatles(their LSD period 1966-1970), Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, the Orb, Soundgarden. Mr.Bungle, Hallucinogen, Shpongle and so on...See a pattern here? Although the music genre differs, they do share common characteristics namely the psychedelic tag. I do seek certain elements in music which can hardly be found in the linear, repetitive and mechanical bass and beats of technotrance. I miss the weirdness, the LSD guru samples, the wicked melody changes. I want psychedelic complexity with a rich and colorful sound, not power through simplicity. I understand the charm and I sure like some of it but it doesn't ''grab me" or "amaze me" musically and that should be the criterium, not because something is evolving or progressing. Call me a neo-hippie, and acid head or whatever, but there may be compelling reasons why many people don't dig the oh so progressive techtrance revolution. Thank God, there is still Psyambient... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jeff Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 I feel reassured to notice that there are still people enjoying psychedelic sounds AND melodies ! Why should we feel ashamed of loving nice twisted synth lines ? The "cheese factor" reply is overdone by now. I'll try those links Kristian, thanks man ! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest antic Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 so which bands/gropus of psy-trance you would consider as doing evolutionary nostalgic psy-trance music? I can point out a few examples - they're quite new releases, incorporating some of the elements of minimal-techno wave, but they still remain true to the goa roots of 1997/98. for me they are: - cosmosis - intergalactic (2000) - orion - metamorpheus (2001) - alienated - ff (2001) - process - one drop or two? (2000) for me the CDs above show the future of psy-trance, but - as it can be clearly seen on this page - they are not so widely recognised. try to compare number of reviews for any of the above albums and for example son kite? but I hope psy-trance will sound that way in year or two... plurries Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest russ Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 hi miles, actually i agree with most of what you say in your post about techno-music. i didn't really mean to say that the new techno-style is any better. my post was more aimed at the almost violent response the more tech styles or more progressive styles get these days. my favorite group by far and away these days is son kite (and ooze!) because i find subtlety and variation and meticulous precision as well as depth and soundscapes and spiritual vibes in almost every track. i think seb's new track as filur called "liquid shuffle" is one of the most pyschedelic pieces of dance music i have ever heard--sounds constantly shifting against the stereo spectrum and in 3-D, both left and right, and back and forward, and in frequency, as if no sound or pattern is standing still. it's like when you're tripping and looking at tree bark and the patterns are moving but staying still at the same time. i can't remember ever hearing anything as sound-sophisticated as that a few years back (besides maybe the two "beast" tracks). having said that, i too find lots of new tech-stuff like paste depressingly dull, and i don't like music that reminds of being in a club at all. if i had the power to force one artist to do my bidding i would beg frank e and ian to take the intense koxbox/saikopod sound of before, which to me was the height this form of music reached in terms of composition and pyschological effect (their music used to do the most amazing and sometimes disturbing things to tripping minds!), and push it forward with their new production skills and new technology. i wait for dragon tales 2 with baited breath because it will be awesome whatever style it is, but the saikopod project is now firmly in a clubland direction, so i can't help but feel a little disappointed (but i wish them luck!). and to antic, regarding music that is both nostalgic and evolved (even though that wasn't really the topic of my post), i think the reason most people are either 1) not writng psygoa, or 2) writing tired cliched pysgoa is because the genre reached its limitations in most people's hands. in other words. most artists went about as far as they could in the genre. of course there are exceptions. posford seems to have no limitations (except for liking raja's flute so much); koxbox was in a different genre to begin with, and i think they could have pushed much further. sean williams from process is another who could push that old sound into further more psychedelic dimensions, as proven by his "one drop or two" killer album (i am excited for his new Superior Technology album coming soon, he is kind of my "last hope"), but think all the rest that is trying to be "oldschool" just sounds tired to my ears. so personally, i would rather hear "fresh" than "tired" even if that sound isn't quite psychedelic enough for my ears. just in case the point of my first point was lost in its length, i didn't mean to support one style of music over another. all i meant to say was that the incredible intensity of people's initial experiences at a psyparty tends to limit their musical tastes down the road, hence the large number of goa fluoro fascists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kristian Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 Just ought to say that I think that there's still room for development of the artists and their sound of their albums I mentioned above and it should never have been abbandonded like it became after 97-98... I have also noticed when reading in trance forums and trance reviews that there are a mass of people (like me) still longing for the melodic trance of that time... There's still a massive demand for it! This shows that it will turn to melodic again in some form. We who are for the melodic stuff can not possible accept the trance scene of today, and we are giving our thoughts about it everywhere. No matter what if it´s for the money that the techstyle/minimal is so popular today and all artists are producing such and all labels publish it, this will not last. Cause there will always be "youngsters" grewing up for the same need as you and I had 97-98... Minimal in any form has never survived in the todays society, minimal lifestyles are born to fail in the long tense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DJ Full Lotus Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 As technology evolves, so does music and the way it is produced. This can be seen throughout the history of music. Each person has their own individual tastes and preferences. Having listened to Psychedelic music for the last 20 years, I can say that psychedelia is in the mind of the beholder. Some music that one person considers psychedelic, may not be so for someone else and vice versa. Live and let live. Real psychedelic music takes influences from across the spectum and uses these influences to expand the genre. Listening to 'Tomorrow Never Knows' by the Beatles does the same thing to my head as does listening to Hallucinogen, Reefer Decree, Gong or the Orb. Make up your own minds. Live Long and Party!!! DJ Full Lotus Kundalini, London Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Psymijis Posted January 23, 2002 Share Posted January 23, 2002 russ i agree with you , maybe i dont understand the nostalgia thing because i dont have that nostalgia , i discovered electronica 2 years ago with a chessy trance track called 9 pm till i come included in the seb fontaine - prototype 1 album, then i mooved to sasha and digweed and all the great progressive djs . One day i discovered psy in a flying rhino rave , my first album was rock bitch mafia , classical mushrrom , then cosmosis etc . The point here is that all those "old school" bands that makes nostalgic a lot of people here , are still new bands for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Inukko Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 Melodies are nice, pure noises and rhythm are nice. But we're leaving something out here: timbral variation! Dammit, I wanna hear COLORS in my psy, not just a million different squeaky acid sounds (which is what most of today's "full-on" is)... yes, we have psyambient, but I don't think the highlight of a party should be the chill. Take heed psyartists... formula only goes so far... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Inukko Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 I loved Nitrox, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aje Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 It is relative what people perceive as psychedelic, i find it much more psychedelic to listen to Beat Bizarre or Son Kite with all th space between the sounds and the hypnotic element, than listening to full on sounds that are being crammed into my brain. I also agree with Russ's X_dream theory, they definitely changed everything. They made me return to Psytrance after I had lost interest in 97 after two years. But when i heard tracks like Psychomachine that opened up a whole other category of music for me, I had never heard anything like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest --== MiLeS ==-- Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 Dunno... like I said, I do understand the charm of clean and sober beats but psychedelica traditionally is all about visuals and hallucinogetics which are somehow linked to a variety of sounds, kinda like sounds that tickle the imagination. If music is brought back to the bare essentials with a clear dominance of bass and beats there is simply not enough sound left to touch the imagination, visually. Hypnotic is something else...that is creating a state of higher consiousness through repetitive patterns. The main weapon of minimal. Not that it matters much but people that tried both Hallucinogen and Son Kite on LSD probably understand what I mean. Even comapring old skewl covers with current minimal releases says it all; the visual aspect is just not that important in minimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kristian Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 Anyone tried theese? (It would be fun to hear your opinion of it!): http://apoptygma.eu.org/ http://www.synthetic.org/a23/ http://vnvnation.com/ (My favourite synthbands with strong techno/trance influences)... I have started to listen to synthmusic like I did before 94 again since the todays trancemusic sounds boring for me without melodies. And I don't think the psyambient is an alternative for me since it has such a slow BPM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cymoon Posted January 24, 2002 Share Posted January 24, 2002 I feel this the same way as you miles.... I like the new directions in the scene....many of the "new" artists are really great and produces fresh new sounds I can really enjoy at parties....I know where is the power of the "minimal" sound, but it is something different from what I used to clasify as psychedelic trance.......sometimes I think I can simply visit some techno party and got the same effect I can get from visiting some hard-core minimal party :-).... (but I would prefer the minimal party, cause the touch of psychedelia is still there :-) we have our 4th birtday party on saturday and we will have special event where we will flow from the old classic goatrance to todays psychedelic sounds (minimal included :-), so I am going through my collection of old goatrance records and I have to say that I like most of them much more better than a lot of todays "top" artists. "IT" is there! It is just a feeling I cannot describe.....(maybe nostalgia, he he :-)) ) Yeah, it is more about hypnotizing today, which is not the thing I fell in love with goa trance. But there is a lot of people who keep the old vibe alive in the new music! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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