Guest stringtheory Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 It is beyond me how people can convince themselves that downloading and trading psytrance mp3's does not hurt the entire scene. This is not rocket science. It is common sense. Psytrance, compared to the rest of the music industry is still very underground and very small. There are not alot of cd's released and not alot of copies of each CD. Furthermore CD's are not too expensive. I don't think most people realize how expansive the world actually is. A label has to actually get the album mass produced...which costs money....the label has to get extensive distribution agreements...which costs money...especially considering the fact that it is not possible in many countries to walk into a record store and actually buy psytrance. I would guess most psytrance albums are sold over the internet, which makes securing good distribution agreements even more important. Again....that sort of thing is expensive. Futhermore the artists must get paid as well. This entire process is EXPENSIVE. Pystrance CD's are not overpriced....quite frankly often times they are UNDERPRICED. Stop bitching and moaning about cd's being too expensive. Unfortunately we live in an extremely expensive world. Hell a gallon of milk costs two dollars. A pack of toilet paper costs two dollars. A freakin bottle of soda costs 1.25. The reality is that 95% of people who download psytrance mp3's are not nearly as moral as they claim to be. I would almost guarantee that those 95% do not buy many albums...but instead come up with some lame, bullshit excuse to make them feel better about themselves and justify stealing music. This scene, this wonderful community, this experience we call psytrance quite simply cannot survive massive amounts of mp3 trading. That is the REALITY. So far all you people who want to justify stealing music...whatever...keep telling yourself it is okay....because you will be the ones who ultimately put the entire fucking scence and its wonderful artists out of business. That is the REALITY of the situation. Artists deserve to be compensated for their work. They deserve to be able to freaking eat and put a roof over their heads. I completely agree that the motivation for making music should not be money......but that doesn't negate the fact that these artists deserve compensation for their creations and that they should be able to live off the money they make from the selling of their work. That would be like telling a computer programmer...hey you don't need to get paid for your work...you should live on the streets and starve because you should only be programming for the love of programming. That is bullshit. Everyone should have the right to make a freaking living. Does not a carpenter deserve to get paid for building a house ?? Why is an artist any different ? Is not the carpenter creating something just like artist or musician creates their works ?? There is not justifaction in our psytrance community for trading psytrance mp3's. We are supposed to be better than that. We are supposed to support this community...for that is what it is when you get right down to it. We are a community of people who love this music. Why would anyone who loves that music and its community actively work to bring it down ?????????????????????????????? Peace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aricz Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 jesus fuck man. i both download AND buy albums. guess we're a quite big part of the scene. we have the extreme sides too, the ones who buy everything they want, then the ones who download everything they want. most of us are in the middle. that's where the money is. not on the extremes, they're too few. get it? hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cubensis Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 this scene would not be the size it is today without mp3s and the internet. do you have any idea how many people discovered psy/goa via MP3s? I'm one of them. And I still buy MP3s. But I never use MP3s for anything but previews. I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS buy the CDs I like. Honestly, I would not listen to psy anymore if stuff was not available in MP3. There is so much stuff that I dislike out there, I need a way to preview full tracks, in decent quality. Realaudio and 64 kbps mp3 samples just don't cut it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PsyKick Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 The number of CDs in my collection (original and MP3): 160 The number of CDs I bought: 70 The number of CDs I would have bought without listening to it in mp3 first: 0 Its as simple as that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest basi Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 I agree with the sentiment but not the content... essentially, you can love the music and still have an MP3 collection. The cure for your conscience is a bought music collection to go with it. As for how to fight back... well the goal is to increase sales for labels, to ensure that they remain as a viable route for getting the music released, and ultimately, so that the artists can make enough to want to continue making this beautiful music, right? Well there are a couple of ways you can do this... naturally the most straight-forward is to buy more aside from that you can promote the music in your part of the world, or online by your small part. There are three types of people in this world... those that love psytrance, those that don't, and then there are those that have never heard of its existence... those who love it buy albums and probably also download some MP3s, but will buy more based on what they find. Those that don't love it either download a ton and don't buy, or dislike the style altogether - either way its a loss, and you can't make a person love something, so why waste your effort? Ah, but that third category... they're neutral. They can't hurt sales in any way. Though with these people, you also can't make them love the music... you CAN introduce them to it! But sheesh, how the heck do you do that... send them an MP3? Copy one of your CDs?? Spend some money and buy them an album?!?! (well you can obviously take a person to a party featuring the music, sure, but not everyone is into the party thing) How's this for some wild and crazy idea that would never happen... suppose that some big artists donate a few tracks to the public domain!!! At the loss of X amount of dollars from not having licensed and sold the song, they could possibly make 2X back if a co-ordinated effort was put forth by a web site solely dealing with the psytrance BASICS... most sites (mine included) are targetted nearly entirely at people who are ALREADY into psytrance... maybe the scene as a whole could use a basic portal that would feature a full CD's worth of free WAV or MP3s to download, as well as an explanation of the history and links to the 'deeper sites' out there... think about the "squares" you work with, or your aunt, or some friend who isn't into electronic music or parties or anything that you do... I know I sometimes can't even explain what its all about, what I spend my time on, why I like this music etc... so what if there was a site that could quite simply explain to -anyone- out there what the whole thing is about, why it happens, and what the hell it sounds like!? Well, think anyone would get 'turned on'? Could it help the whole movement? Would it at least make my parents think I'm not insane? Anyways, just some stupid thoughts.. if you dont think its so stupid though, www.psytrancenow.com is not taken, and go right ahead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cubensis Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 are you sure you want psy to be more widespread? the more you promote something, the more undesireables you have. and in my post above I worte "And I still buy MP3s" i meant to say "And I still download MP3s" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stringtheory Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 basi: You present some very good points and I respect what you are saying. I have no problem with sample mp3's....little snippets of the actual track maybe two minutes long....which is what you see at most online music stores. There is nothing wrong with being able to listen before you buy. But if you don't know after two minutes whether or not you are going to like the song....then too bad. That is usually ample time to get a feel for the tracks and the albums. People have no business trading full length psytrance tracks or albums. If you like something...buy it. Furthermore there are a number of places where people can go to download free psytrance...ie...mp3.com and innerverse.com. Unless the artist or label makes a track or tracks free to download...then no one has any business trading and downloading full length tracks and albums. The scene is simply too small and production and distribution costs are too expensive for this scene to continue to survive if people continue to download and trade large amounts of mp3s. The only way to support the psytrance community is by buying the albums and or going to the shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hels Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 I, for one, wouldn't even know what the hell psy was if it weren't for MP3s... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest aricz Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 stringtheory, did you get what i said to you? #2 post, read it, understand it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Quasarta Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 I think we've found the solution. Check www.senseblender.be --> events peace Q Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Psy shaman Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Your missing a positive point there is no such thing as bad advertising so even when someone gets there song ripped the chances are poeple who haven't heard it are going to here it. Another thing I have spent thousands and thousands of dollars on friggin records and cds for as long as I remmember and as far as i'm concerned if it wasn't for mp3s I woudn't even be able to afford paying bills or listening to music so does this mean I don't have the right to listen to the kind of music I like. Of course if poeple have the option of getting free music there going to jump on it, it's a tough world for musicians and for listeners but in the long run everyone bennefits regardless of money made or money lossed because the music is heard and advertised for free.. Ps. Most musicians are broke to start out with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stringtheory Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 aricz: I understand what you are saying but I do not agree. In the psytrance community...any kind of large scale mp3 trading and downloading has an adverse affect on the entire community, particularly in this harsh economic climate. The profit margins are simply too small to be able to compete with rampant mp3 trading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jonathan Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 Then the labels need to step up and stop releasing so much crap. There are WAY too many labels and WAY too many "artists"- every 15 year old kid now a days can make some noise on his computer and he will immedietly be released by some label. 75% of the labels feel like they need to release a CD once a month. Take a look at psyshop, what do you see there? Labels I never heard of with tracks by artists I will never want to hear of. The result is that there are people like me who only buy 1 or 2 cd's a month because of a low cash flow and because there is so much good music coming from other genres. I refuse to spend my hard earned on bad music. Sorry, but this is 2003. I'll download the album and buy it if its good. You can say I have no business doing this, but I say you have no business telling ME what to do, thank you very much. There are two labels out there that I will buy their music blindly until I get burned: Digital Structures Spectral Concepts (my local label which has EARNED my support- check out the new oxygen comp, amazing) p.s stringtheory: hit that enter button once in a while. When I see a post thats that cluttered and that long, I'll lose intrest if I just can't skim through it. Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bholenath Posted February 4, 2003 Share Posted February 4, 2003 why do ppl waste time arguing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unleashed Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 MP3 is the biggest promotion tool an artist can get.You people just don't get it!!!!You just don't fucking get that an Artist doesn't make money with the Album the Label sells. They make money from the live performances,and this aplies to any genre of music. I have so many friends in bands(punk rock,metal,rock),i could have been in the business myself and I can tell you that you can't even pay your food for a month with the money you get from selling CDs. Everybody in the business knows that,and only morones who are being decieved by their bosses(labels) think otherwise. The only way they survive,and believe me they survive happily is to tour across the world doing live shows. Even the biggest names in the world like Jennifer Lopes and stuff go to TV and say they don't make a shit with CD sells... If MP3s are hurting someone those are the labels not the artists,and just think about it for a second,probably in the next generation there won't even be labels,If you want movies,music or software,you will buy them electronically(doesn't take a genius to figure that will happen in the near future). More,I even think we will be buying songs instead of full albums..Why should we pay for an entire CD if we only want one track? That's one move that would skyrocket music quality instead of quantity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest .:::EP Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 And the artists that do not tour because they dont fit into the "top 10" category what about them? Do you also think they survive happily? Man you got no clue whatsover ! It's so easy to say what you're saying but it just do not cover even half of the artists situation today! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hels Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Mp3s exist and they aren't going away. Humans are humans and they aren't going to change. If psy doesn't break into the top40 then the artists won't make much money...yea they would if everyone who ever listened to their mp3s bought their cds but THEY don't and they probably wont do so ever. Ask the average jazz musician or metal dude if they make any money...its the same situation in any "underground" music...get over it, its not going to change. If you want money make some house or produce something thats more popular, otherwise do what you love and enjoy it for that otherwise your going to be making yourself mad for no reason. Yea it sucks but thats the way things are people kill each other, animals shit on peoples lawns, spaceships blowup SHIT HAPPENS wish all you want, i will too, but it wont do any good anyway I alway thought an artists payment should be the joy he gives to other people. When i write music its so great to see someone else enjoy it too. Much better than that person giving me 5 bucks or whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Quasarta Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 Right EP: but don't forget to tell that small labels like the one I own are in the same situation. If they could make the price of an empty CDR, 25 x the price of its actual price, ppl will not copy music from the net anymore. an other sollution could be selling mp3 on the net e.g. www.emusic.com. we did it like that: www.senseblender.be --->events peace Q ps: MP3 is on the otherhand good 4 promotion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Unleashed Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 .:::EP --- what top 10??I'm talking super underground!! One guy that works with me is the leader of a Hardcore/punk-rock band and he doesn't give up his day job. He tours whenever he has free time. They allready have invitations to go play in Argentina and Brazil in the summer. Mean while they do lives at our country(Portugal). Now go ask him if he wants his music promoted via MP3 to ther entire world or not! And please don't give that shit "You don't have a clue whatsoever" because I damn know what the fuck I'm talking about. I'm just telling the true man,just because I'm tired of escuses of Artists not making money because of MP3 (Those are the labels excuses or pressures to the artist)... like Snoop Dog said - The only time artists should be really afraid is when people stops downloading your MP3s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stringtheory Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 jonathan: If you don't like the way I write my posts...then don't read them. It was not my intention to write a paper...I had no thesis statement or introduction...no body paragraphs...and no conlusion. I was not trying to write a essay that followed correct grammatical and structural constructs. It was a rant. As for your statement about the labels releasing crap....I agree. There are far too many compilations out there in my opinion. That still changes nothing. People can go to any online music shop and preview the tracks before they buy the album. There is no need to download any full length tracks or albums. It comes down to profit margins. For the psytrance industry to be able to survive at all...much less even make small profits....people need to start buying more albums and stop trading psytrance mp3s. As for your statement about me having no business telling you what to do...whatever dude. I was presenting my opinion....plain and simple. You can do whatever the hell you want to do....I was simply presenting my honest opinion on psytrance and mp3s and trying to hopefully maybe convince a few people that we who love this wonderful music have a responsiblity to support the psytrance community...and the only way to support it is by buying the albums and or going to the shows. Downloading and trading psytrance mp3s is in no way supporting the psytrance community...but instead has a direct, adverse affect on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest basi Posted February 5, 2003 Share Posted February 5, 2003 I would have beef with the notion that the online samples provided are all you need... for me, I really need to hear an album a few times in full to know whether its a keeper. Psytrance suffers from some formula these days... you can hear a 2 minute sample and something sounds cool, but is the rest of the song any different? does it evolve or is it a locked groove there? those kinds of things tend to matter to me... its easy to make a nice sound, but is the composition of a high quality? 2 minute samples don't tell me that, so I've ended up buying some stuff that I later have to get rid of. Frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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