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Classic Goa Trance basses/leads/FX recreated in modern software


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No I posted a video comparing the h3000 vs the newer software version. But then I had second thoughts cause the video itself was kinda cringy and the poster used his "singing" if you could call it that, as the sound source for comparison 

 

 

:D

No i haven't tried that plugin you posted :)

 

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34 minutes ago, astralprojection said:

No I posted a video comparing the h3000 vs the newer software version. But then I had second thoughts cause the video itself was kinda cringy and the poster used his "singing" if you could call it that, as the sound source for comparison 

 

 

:D

No i haven't tried that plugin you posted :)

 

 

Aha haha, well I hope they someday release all ther best algos in a plugin, the ones used in the Eventide's most used in goa trance in the 90s that is. :) 

Hopefully this Eventide plugin can do atleast something slightly reminiscent of that. Although I'm not expecting too much. Atleast it seems Eventide are waking up and realizing that for example Valhalla is closing in on their turf.

Anyone has any experience/opinion on this Swedish plugin? Seems good for distortion on separate channels.

 

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apparently thats exactly what they did with their new h3000 plugin

https://www.eventideaudio.com/products/effects/pitch-delay-modulation-filtering/h3000-factory

but it lacks everything (imho) that made the original so good. now it sounds just like any stock plugin id say. no character, sound profile, or anything like that. it has no "mojo". in my opinion at least=) 

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2 minutes ago, astralprojection said:

apparently thats exactly what they did with their new h3000 plugin

https://www.eventideaudio.com/products/effects/pitch-delay-modulation-filtering/h3000-factory

but it lacks everything (imho) that made the original so good. now it sounds just like any stock plugin id say. no character, sound profile, or anything like that. it has no "mojo". in my opinion at least=) 

Aha didn't know about that one been kinda out of the loop, gotta check it out.

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its not great, i think you can do better with logics native stuff =) 

but it was very interesting to hear all those drastic differences, from the same manufacturer, with the same name-  and 20 something years later. but still sounds worse than the orignial.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Some screenshots of Astral Projections old studio from this documentary:

 

 

703E36D6-4D5D-40F8-B7C4-43FB7D126769.png

FD437987-09B6-4EFF-82C0-49FF65951D3A.png

A6355358-9CD9-4626-87B0-2BA91F97018C.png

7C973C59-3B7E-41CA-8A00-FE165FF5E636.png

7B41F5CE-9E0C-4A01-9864-58F26FA8B71F.png

B30D85A4-CA30-450A-9230-3C8513A6EB93.png

Even a closeup of their black and white DAW computer screen :D I wonder what track that melody pertains to? Either a lead or bass/acidic pattern perhaps, my bet is on a lead.

Very informative documentary which captured the vibe there in Israel at the time, and also the info about Yaniv Haviv leaving Astral to pursue religion. I'm trying to grasp exacly during which year the AP interview was recorded, they talk about Mahadeva beeing released kinda recently it seems, so it's definitely the Trust In Trance era, perhaps recording of the Dancing Galaxy album?

The info about when the documentary was released I found online:

Information

Type: Documentary

Year: 1996

Total Time: 53:00

Styles: Ambient, Disco, Industrial, Minimal, Space Rock, Techno

Formats: DVD

Liscense: Copyright

Cast:
Ikutaro Kakehashi
Kazuhiro Terada
Haruomi Hosono
Ken Ishii
Key Dj
Steve Hillage

Director: Martin Meissonnifer, Jean Jacques Flori

Producer: Marco Cherqui

Soundtrack: Distance Productions

Editor: Philipe Rouget

Sound: George Lafitte, Marie Bossy

 

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  • 8 months later...

While analyzing some tracks from the Hallucinogen Twisted album in Logic, for example with a phase meter. I’m very surprised with the tracks beeing so tightly controlled with regards to the phase correlation. I suppose it was even more imortant back then due to the tracks needing to be compatible with the Vinyl format and so on.

So my question is, what did they use back then to ensure the phase was correct and meter/monitor the phase correlation? Did the mixing desks have this feature built in to monitor it?

Or was it something that was fixed at the mastering stage by the mastering engineer? I was thinking that the tracks would be phasing all over the place since phasers were such an integral part of the Hallucinogen sound. But yeah neat productions indeed. :)

I’m thinking that perhaps a contributing factor to the perfect phase correlation of these old tracks could also in part be because they relied more on widening tricks, which includes to pan delays and channel in opposite directions. Instead of today were we use a lot of widening plugins, which sometimes aren’t optimal when combined with phasers and other effects.

And hmm they probably made a mono bus on the mixing desk to which they routed all the frequency content below a certain frequency? :) 

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I think it just boils down to the time that music was created. Alot of people didn't have huge desks with tons of channels, so they were forced to have many of their layers in mono, and save the precious stereo channels for only a few things. 

And mono is perfect phase correlation while the sides always have some slight cancellations and differences. 

That's my guess at least, to why the older 90s stuff are so phase coherent. 

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1 hour ago, astralprojection said:

I think it just boils down to the time that music was created. Alot of people didn't have huge desks with tons of channels, so they were forced to have many of their layers in mono, and save the precious stereo channels for only a few things. 

And mono is perfect phase correlation while the sides almost always have some slight cancellations and differences. 

That's my guess at least, to why the older 90s stuff are so phase coherent. 

Good hypothesis! :) Anyone who was active in the 90’s who can give some insight? I’m thinking that perhaps the Mackie 32 8 bus series must’ve had some phase meter on the metering bridge accessory. What I don’t know is what year that mixing desk was released and started to be used by goa artists. I’m thinking that desk must’ve had 32 stereo channels right? And so they might’ve used some of those split in mono to get some more channels?

Filteria used that very same mixing desk on his early albums atleast, so I don’t think it would be 32 mono channels atleast :D that would suck.

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well, in case im very mistaken, isnt a 32 channel desk 32 mono channels or 16 stereo channels? if so that limitation of having to use mono for alot of things would make sense. ive never owned a mixer but perhaps those 32 channels are in fact stereo channels. Then my hypothesis kinda doesnt work ^^ 

yes indeed would be cool to hear from 90s music makers on this

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53 minutes ago, astralprojection said:

well, in case im very mistaken, isnt a 32 channel desk 32 mono channels or 16 stereo channels? if so that limitation of having to use mono for alot of things would make sense. ive never owned a mixer but perhaps those 32 channels are in fact stereo channels. Then my hypothesis kinda doesnt work ^^ 

yes indeed would be cool to hear from 90s music makers on this

Yeah you’re probably right! 64 mono channels seems a bit overkill. :D I mean atleast in retrospective, that seems like a lot of channels. Which I’m not really hearing in those old tunes.

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MIDI wife old basses aren't much different comparing to one today, it's synthesis. Here are few examples of old school basses.

 

Electric Universe - Solar Energy

Electric Universe - Solar Energy

 

 

 

Electric Universe - One Love

Electric Universe - One Love

 

 

Dimension 5 - Omega Centaurus

Dimension 5 - Omega Centaurus

 

 

The Overlords - Sundown

Overlords - Sundown

 

 

Genetic - Trancemission

image.thumb.png.38a32dac2272033b8d8488a2c8b8a434.png

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On 8/26/2020 at 10:31 PM, AstralSphinx said:

Some screenshots of Astral Projections old studio from this documentary:

 

 

703E36D6-4D5D-40F8-B7C4-43FB7D126769.png

FD437987-09B6-4EFF-82C0-49FF65951D3A.png

A6355358-9CD9-4626-87B0-2BA91F97018C.png

7C973C59-3B7E-41CA-8A00-FE165FF5E636.png

7B41F5CE-9E0C-4A01-9864-58F26FA8B71F.png

B30D85A4-CA30-450A-9230-3C8513A6EB93.png

Even a closeup of their black and white DAW computer screen :D I wonder what track that melody pertains to? Either a lead or bass/acidic pattern perhaps, my bet is on a lead.

Very informative documentary which captured the vibe there in Israel at the time, and also the info about Yaniv Haviv leaving Astral to pursue religion. I'm trying to grasp exacly during which year the AP interview was recorded, they talk about Mahadeva beeing released kinda recently it seems, so it's definitely the Trust In Trance era, perhaps recording of the Dancing Galaxy album?

The info about when the documentary was released I found online:

Information

Type: Documentary

Year: 1996

Total Time: 53:00

Styles: Ambient, Disco, Industrial, Minimal, Space Rock, Techno

Formats: DVD

Liscense: Copyright

Cast:
Ikutaro Kakehashi
Kazuhiro Terada
Haruomi Hosono
Ken Ishii
Key Dj
Steve Hillage

Director: Martin Meissonnifer, Jean Jacques Flori

Producer: Marco Cherqui

Soundtrack: Distance Productions

Editor: Philipe Rouget

Sound: George Lafitte, Marie Bossy

 

where can i find this Documentary?

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1 minute ago, Psychedelic Superbeast said:

where can i find this Documentary?

Oh they took it down dat sux. :( Then I don’t know, it was really interesting.

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41 minutes ago, Imba said:

MIDI wife old basses aren't much different comparing to one today, it's synthesis. Here are few examples of old school basses.

 

Electric Universe - Solar Energy

Electric Universe - Solar Energy

 

 

 

Electric Universe - One Love

Electric Universe - One Love

 

 

Dimension 5 - Omega Centaurus

Dimension 5 - Omega Centaurus

 

 

The Overlords - Sundown

Overlords - Sundown

 

 

Genetic - Trancemission

image.thumb.png.38a32dac2272033b8d8488a2c8b8a434.png

mad cool, did you recreate by ear or from official midis? kinda sick that they put the notes on the same time the kick hits? And without sidechain I would assume. :D 

Hmm makes sense! Since they often programmed the bass patterns directly in the synthesizers onboard sequencer, SH-101/MC-202/TB-303 etc.

Hmm pt2 now I realized they programmed the velocity values as well so must be inside daw they did it then? :) 

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The most fascinating thing ever would be to see how Hallucinogen and Infected Mushrooms project files looked like. :) Perhaps lots of audio tracks of course, but the midi parts would be cool to see.

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On 5/29/2021 at 6:13 PM, AstralSphinx said:

mad cool, did you recreate by ear or from official midis? kinda sick that they put the notes on the same time the kick hits? And without sidechain I would assume. :D 

Hmm makes sense! Since they often programmed the bass patterns directly in the synthesizers onboard sequencer, SH-101/MC-202/TB-303 etc.

Hmm pt2 now I realized they programmed the velocity values as well so must be inside daw they did it then? :) 

 

I did not, some were recreated by our own Padmapani and rest I got from original projects from artists to remix :)

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12 hours ago, Imba said:

 

I did not, some were recreated by our own Padmapani and rest I got from original projects from artists to remix :)

That's epic! :D A question, in those older tracks did they ever let any melodies/patterns run for longer durations than 32 bars? I'm reflecting a bit on song structure in those older days and comparing it to older Techno and Acid, which of course were much more monotone in their structures in comparison to Goa Trance. But the similarities/overlap between some of the early stuff is of course there sometimes.

One example of a track which let's the main motif run for 32 bars is Mystica-Ashes To Ashes, other times I think 16 bars for a main motif is more common. How did Dimension 5 arrange their tracks in that regard? Since to me their tracks always appeared more hypnotic/acidic, and as they put it themselves, they made Space Techno or something I think?

I need to import some older goa tracks into logic and analyze the structure some. :) 

For example in modern Techno I've found it is extremely common that the same pattern is repeated throughout the entire song, except for in the, intro and break segments. So it's almost an art of making one single pattern be so catchy that it hopefully doesn't get boring for the listener throughtout the duration of the track. 

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/29/2021 at 5:36 PM, Imba said:

MIDI wife old basses aren't much different comparing to one today, it's synthesis. Here are few examples of old school basses.

 

Electric Universe - Solar Energy

Electric Universe - Solar Energy

 

 

 

Electric Universe - One Love

Electric Universe - One Love

 

 

Dimension 5 - Omega Centaurus

Dimension 5 - Omega Centaurus

 

 

The Overlords - Sundown

Overlords - Sundown

 

 

Genetic - Trancemission

image.thumb.png.38a32dac2272033b8d8488a2c8b8a434.png

 

Once again big thanks! This is great stuff to learn from, straight From the Source, together with the BPM and Key available on Beatport.com :) 

Btw speaking of BPM for Goa Trance these days, what do you guys reckon, is 150 BPM as some of the Dimension 5 tracks are in, a good tempo for todays listener/dance floors etc? 

One track is even in 161 bpm according to beatport. :D Dunno if it’s correct tho. As sometimes the bpm are wrong when intro is dedected as a lower bpm for some tracks.

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18 hours ago, AstralSphinx said:

 

Once again big thanks! This is great stuff to learn from, straight From the Source, together with the BPM and Key available on Beatport.com :) 

Btw speaking of BPM for Goa Trance these days, what do you guys reckon, is 150 BPM as some of the Dimension 5 tracks are in, a good tempo for todays listener/dance floors etc? I have no clue what BPM ranges people are in these days. 150 seems to be very energetic indeed and I quite like it. Gives a good rush, but I remember that atleast the Neo Goa in the 2000's was a bit slower in comparison, 138/146 bpm ish. And also of course some of the Old School was a bit slower as well sometimes, Sheyba etc.


I produce 142-150 but rarely play bellow 145, I just don't feel it :D

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